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Nissan Pathfinder

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Comments

  • goose1207goose1207 Member Posts: 113
    I found a light green/green-yellow spot in the snow where my '01 LE was parked since Monday night. Do I have an anti-freeze/coolant leak? And no, it's not cat pee or anything like that
    :-)

    This is the first time I left it outside of the garage overnight, and through the nor'easter out here (don't ask, long story). It was covered in ice with an ice packed layer of snow on top. I was able to remove most of it, except the stuff on the roof.

    When I got onto the highway to go to work, the PF was shaking/shuddering very noticeably. Not the engine but the body of the car. The shudder then went to the steering wheel as well. It eventually stopped and drove as normal after about 15 minutes of driving. Also, the car was warming up for an hour prior to me driving off (another long story). Any thoughts guys?

    Thanks in advance. By the way, it has only 6000 miles on it so I was a little worried since this is a brand new car.
  • xplorx4xplorx4 Member Posts: 621
    The greenish spot is likely related to a coolant leak. Hopefully the temperature didn't drop so low that it exceeded the freezing point of the antifreeze, and cause parts of the cooling system to crack! If you continue to see spots under your truck, have it checked out.

    Plus, the shuddering you felt was probably related to ice or snow caught in the inside of the rims, causing the wheels to be out-of-balance. Driving for 15minutes probably caused the ice to melt and fling off the wheels.

    Sometimes after driving through thick mud when off-roading, I have the same problem until I wash off the mud.
  • smithmdsmithmd Member Posts: 167
    This winter I had the same shuddering problem. It was so bad that I pulled over on the way to work to look at my truck. Sure enough, packed snow in the wheels. I kicked out what I could and the shudder was markedly improved. 30 minutes of highway driving later, the problem was gone.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    To add to the discussion, you really have to priortize what you are looking for.

    Performance wise, there's no contest. The SF has only a 181hp engine with a near matching torque figure, and this vehicle (the AWD version) is quite hefty. The PF has 240hp for around the same weight. That's a 33% power advantage! So if you expect to haul anything, travel uphill, or blow the doors off of a 4runner, the PF is the obvious choice!
  • payorkpayork Member Posts: 5
    >I'm looking at used Pathfinders, and found a '97 >LE 2wd, 70k for $14000. This sounds like a >decent deal to me, but I'll be moving to Colorado

    I just got a '96 and I would not recommend 2wd in snow/ice if you can hold out for a 4*4 model. I'm in Minnesota and have used mine in 4wd a few times already in the past couple weeks. Peter
  • pathstarpathstar Member Posts: 201
    I'll bet you just overheated it a bit (front packed with ice/snow while it idled for an extended time). Just keep an eye on it to see if it drips again. If it was really serious it would have steamed/produced a huge puddle.

    The vibration as per previous messages.

    I'm sure you're ok on both counts.
  • phil47phil47 Member Posts: 394
    The lurch when turning off the engine (with automode 4wd models) is quite normal and is actually referred to in the manual. QX4 owners have been talking about it for 4 years now (as they have had the automode 4WD system longer). If I remember correctly, it is related to the clutch pack disengaging within the transfer case when you turn off the motor. In my case the lurch only occurs around 25% of the times the automode is engaged. It may be related to whether or not torque was being applied to the front wheels or not when the engine was turned off (like when I'm climbing my slippery, steep driveway into my garage!!).
  • lrichardslrichards Member Posts: 18
    Hi lofquist,
    You mention buying in Canada. Is it possible to lease in Canada through Nissan? If so what about taxes, duties, etc.? I'm interested in SE auto with moonroof, no leather.
    Thanks for info.
  • jambazijambazi Member Posts: 51
    I've updated the FAQ with the very interesting info about the PF lurching when shut off in 4WD.
    I'm waiting to for someone to post a side-by-side comparison between the PF and the Santa Fe, so I can update it with that as well. I like the way the Santa Fe's look. Not as good as our Pathys, but still pretty sharp. A little too bulgy in the rear quarter panels, but otherwise a neat looking car.


    --Howie

  • lofquistlofquist Member Posts: 281
    Lisa,
    The Canadian dealers can't do a lease to the US. But I have corresponded with a few people who have done other options. First of all though, figure that an SE auto with AWD (yes, the real All-Mode not available in the US on the SE), and sunroof is now selling in Canada for about $25,400. US dealer invoice on this is about $29,400.

    One option is just to do a regular loan. You are saving in the range of $4000 so your payments will be significantly less than if you bought here. Yes, more than a lease, but you are gaining some equity each month and will actually own it sometime (or just trade it when you want too).

    Another option is a baloon payment. My CU offers this. It works out to be just about the same payments as a lease. Then there is a one-time payment at the end of the term (like 36 months). Benefit is low payments, but you don't have to use the mfg lease.

    At delivery in Canada you always end up paying some sales taxes, but the Canadian govt sends them all back to you. At the border, you pay 2.5% duty to the US (I included that cost in the price I mentioned above).

    I have both lease and loan payment calculators in my Palm Pilot (can you tell that helping friends on car purchases is a "hobby" of mine?). Let me know if you want me to run some general numbers. Or just email me and I can give you some contacts and more info on Canada.

    -Jon
  • the_gladiatorthe_gladiator Member Posts: 58
    Majorwoody, Loboy, Joeliar or anyother canadian buyer from washington,
    What is the scoop on the "State Use Tax" in Washington? A buddy of mine is certain that I would have to pay it in addition to the Washington state sales tax. That effectively would reduce the incentive to purchase a Pathy SE in Vancouver.
    Brad
  • majorwoodymajorwoody Member Posts: 4
    Bought mine at a local dealer in Washington (Performance Nissan in Everett) so I wouldn't know. However my Boss bought one in Canada and I remembered he mentioned the word State Use Tax. It's still cheaper in Canada for sure...Sorry couldn't help you much here :]
  • butterflymombutterflymom Member Posts: 3
    Hi Everybody!

    I'm out here in the bluegrass state, KY! I'm very
    impressed with the 01 SE PF and am seriously
    considering purchasing one with leather.
    Have you any advice or tips on how I can lower
    the sticker price. Are there any places near
    hear that have a good reputation for selling
    honestly and with modest markups?

    Out of all the SUV's in it's class, the PF comes
    up winning. Thank You!
  • lofquistlofquist Member Posts: 281
    Here's the scoop on taxes when buying from Canada.... At delivery you will have to pay the Canadian GST and maybe the provincial tax (depends on province, but not in BC). This gets fully refunded by mail. When you register in your state you pay the sales tax just like normal (but they call it a "use tax" since you bought out of state).

    So you end up even. Does not reduce the incentive to buy in Canada.

    -Jon
  • woodyr1woodyr1 Member Posts: 142
    Hi:

    I just purchased a 2001 XE Pathfinder, and note the blue chip on the ignition key. I was advised by the dealer that insertion of the incorrect key in the ignition will result in the vehicle not being able to start, by virtue of the 'immobilizer' feature. (Should I get a key cut to work the door lock and accidently insert that key in the ignition, it would not start, and would need to be towed to the dealer for re-programming of the ignition key!)

    My old Pathfinder had a double-cut iginition key, meaning that the teeth on the key could be inserted in the ignition one of two ways. The ignition key on the 2001 only has the blue chip on one part of the key, and I have always inserted the key with the blue chip towards the dashboard, but wonder if it would work with the chip away from the dashboard. I could not find an answer in the owners manual, so am appealing to the forum.

    Thanks

    By the way, enjoying the major increase in performance over my 95 Pathfinder!
  • phil47phil47 Member Posts: 394
    I've never looked which way I inserted it, which likely means it doesn't matter.
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    The way immobilizer/chip key systems work is this:

    You put the key in the ignition and when you turn it, there is a module in your dash area that sends out a strong electronic field that temporarily powers the chip. The chip then sends back a code to the module which then lets the ignition start, etc.

    It doesn't matter which way you put the key in, the chip is being powered through induction. For example, on my Lexus, you get an emergency "wallet" key. It is a thick credit card that holds a simple metal key. You take the key out of the credit card and insert it into the ignition (the key also obviously unlocks the doors). You then place the credit card near the dash while you turn the key. It definitely keeps you from being embarassed and calling the spouse.

    "...it would not start, and would need to be towed to the dealer for re-programming of the ignition key!"

    I find this statement highly suspect. The only thing that should happen if you insert a correct metal key without the chip is that the engine will not start. I'm not 100% sure (since every system is different), but I find it highly unlikely this would happen.

    Hope this helps,
    TC
  • poswaldposwald Member Posts: 38
    woodyr1,

    I did exactly what you described in #1616. I seem to always need something out of the locked glove compartment while the car is running. So I had a key cut without the blue chip to be used to unlock the glove compartment during this time. Right after I got it i figured i would test it to see if it would start the car or not. I put it in the ignition and it did nothing as per teh immobilizer feature design. HOWEVER, when I put the normal key with the blue chip in to start the vehicle it also did not work!! Slightly panicked as to what I may have just done, I waited about 1 minute and it then tried again. It worked with no problem. I repeated this process again to be sure I understood what just happened and why. (i am an engineer). I leave this key in the cockpit since it cannot be used to start the vehicle. It does unlock the doors.
  • dennis1950dennis1950 Member Posts: 33
    Check the previous postings for pricing information. Message# 1610 has a FAQ link that discusses "how much to pay" very well.
    Your posting is refreshing. A lot of people make the purchase and post a question to others asking how well they did.
    If you do not enjoy the haggling process, check into www.checkbook.com. They are a non profit service that will contact dealers in your area and set up a competitive bid scenario. Can not speak for them as I have never used their service.
    You mentioned that you are looking at an SE with leather. You might want to upgrade to an LE. The pricing of the SE with the leather/sunroof options is just a few hundred below an LE that has leather/sunroof as standard. In addition, the LE has the AWD.
    Nissan's factory incentives expired in 2/01. However, with this economy you should be able to find a dealer that will sell at a few hundred above dealer invoice.
  • woodyr1woodyr1 Member Posts: 142
    Thanks for your input, guys. I am sometimes suspicious what dealers tell me, including the service dept! A service advisor did tell me that were I to get a key cut to facilitate unlocking the vehicle, glove box etc, and were I to accidently insert this key into the ignition, it would not start the vehicle, and would require that the vehicle be towed to the nearest dealership for a technician to re-program the key! In my case, the nearest dealer is 240 km (150 miles).

    Based on your comments, it would appear that the cut key would not start the vehicle, but after waiting a minute or so, my original coded key would work. I think I have more faith in this forum than the word of the dealer.

    Thanks again

    Woody
  • bgritzbgritz Member Posts: 139
    About two months after we got the PF, I went to the dealership to have a spare (non-chip) key cut to put in my jacket when snowbaording etc.

    With non-chipped key in hand, I thought "Are they telling the truth about the chip?" I was parked at the dealer, so I tried it.

    It cranked, but didn't catch. They aren't lying-it doesn't work at all! OK lesson learned.

    I then put if the chipped key and cranked...
    UH OH, it didn't work either. After trying a couple of more times without success, the salesperson who had sold me the car strolled over. He said it was probably flooded. (I didn't tell him I had tried the other key) He had me crank it a few more time without success playing with the accelerator.

    I thought my curiosity had gotten me into big trouble!

    He then told me to pull the fuse for the fuel pump, (under the change holder, near the hood release) and give it a few cranks with the fuse removed.

    I put the fuse back in, inserted the real key and va-voom it fired right up.

    Wheeeew, how would I have explained my stupidity to my wife?

    Here's what happened:
    As soon as a key (any key) is inserted into the cylinder and turned past the lock, the computer tells the fuel management system to prime the engine by squrting a a bit a gasoline into the ignition chambers.

    Under normal circumstances (read using correct key) the engine gets a spark and promptly catches, burning up any excess fuel.

    When you use a non-chipped key, the computer doesent send a spark, so the excess fuel stays in the chamber. Everytime you try and crank it, it squirts in a little bit of new fuel, flooding the engine.

    By removing the fuse, and cranking with the good key, you are getting spark, but new fuel is not being sent to the engine. So after a few cranks you burn the excess fuel out of the chambers.

    When you put the fuse back in, and use the correct key, you have both pieces of the puzzle together again and it works as it should.

    My sales guy told me this should work in any flooding instance and it makes sense when you think about it.

    hope this may help someone in the future

    Brian
  • loboyloboy Member Posts: 75
    Sales tax (8.6%) is what I paid, plus title and license only when I registered and I got the plates the same day. That was last November, so I'm not sure if the DMV has changed their hearts about things since the new year. Great time to buy with the exchange rate. Good luck and let me know if you have questions.

    Don
  • divedeep98divedeep98 Member Posts: 4
    When I bought my PF 01 LE two months ago, I thought I never needed to haul anything, so I got one without the towing package. Now, I realize that I'd ride dirt bike and need to haul it around with my PF. What options do I have? Thank you PF gurus.
  • smokey75smokey75 Member Posts: 434
    Hey dennis1950, the 3.9% financing will continue through 4/2 at least. This is confirmed by my dealer & the TV commercials. Not sure about the rebate though.

    Hey butterflymom, I'm in Louisville. What part of KY are you in? I will hopefully be purchasing a 01 LE this month & have been dealing with Neil Huffman Nissan, but we haven't talked numbers yet so that may change. Let me know if you have any luck with dealers & I'll do the same.
    Thanks
  • smokey75smokey75 Member Posts: 434
    Hey, does anyone know where to get the service manual cheaper than www.nissan-techinfo.com ?
    Also, what brand, type, & size of tire comes on the 2001 4x4 PF LE?
  • stephentwstephentw Member Posts: 9
    Hi! Recently (2 weeks - 854 miles) I became the proud owner of a 2001 PF LE. Everything was going great until tonight. On the way home from picking up my son, I had the sensation that the steering was a little more difficult and a bogged down sensation. Almost like parking brake was on but not quite that severe. Got out and checked all the tires which were fine. Began to feel like maybe I was in 4 wheel drive although I had not changed modes and in fact until this evening hadn't even shifted into 4 HI or LO. Just 2WD and Auto. Anyway, I have tried everything I can think of to try and free whatever seems to be locked up (brakes?) or transmission without success. Seems to operate smoother in Auto Mode than 2WD but still not quite right. After test driving it a little more and stopping at store I now hear a loud click everytime I step on the brakes when in park but not in any other gear. Sounds like it's coming from underneath glove box and continues everytime I step on the brake in park. Have never heard that clicking noise before now. Does anyone have any ideas? Is it possible that the PF is in 4WD even though all indicators show otherwise? I do hear a pretty strong thump when switching from 4HI to Auto and I thought I heard same thump when switching from Auto to 2WD. I sure appreciate this forum and have learned a lot from reading it. It's very obvious that I am now a member of an elite club of very quality people. I appreciate any and all feedback regarding this somewhat frustrating development. TIA Steve
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    That click you hear when stepping on the brake in park is normal...that's the interlock that prevents you from shifting out of park without the brake being on...was always there, you just never noticed it (funny how much you start noticing when something goes wrong).

    I have no clue as to your other problem...are your 4WD dash lights showing correctly what mode you're in? Hopefully someone else has some info for you.
  • stephentwstephentw Member Posts: 9
    Hi! Recently (2 weeks - 854 miles) I became the proud owner of a 2001 PF LE. Everything was going great until tonight. On the way home from picking up my son, I had the sensation that the steering was a little more difficult and a bogged down sensation. Almost like parking brake was on but not quite that severe. Got out and checked all the tires which were fine. Began to feel like maybe I was in 4 wheel drive although I had not changed modes and in fact until this evening hadn't even shifted into 4 HI or LO. Just 2WD and Auto. Anyway, I have tried everything I can think of to try and free whatever seems to be locked up (brakes?) or transmission without success. Seems to operate smoother in Auto Mode than 2WD but still not quite right. After test driving it a little more and stopping at store I now hear a loud click everytime I step on the brakes when in park but not in any other gear. Sounds like it's coming from underneath glove box and continues everytime I step on the brake in park. Have never heard that clicking noise before now. Does anyone have any ideas? Is it possible that the PF is in 4WD even though all indicators show otherwise? I do hear a pretty strong thump when switching from 4HI to Auto and I thought I heard same thump when switching from Auto to 2WD. I sure appreciate this forum and have learned a lot from reading it. It's very obvious that I am now a member of an elite club of very quality people. I appreciate any and all feedback regarding this somewhat frustrating development. TIA Steve
  • loboyloboy Member Posts: 75
    I think the sound you hear when pressing on the brake while in park is the mechanism disengaging so you can shift the lever out of park. If you notice you can't shift out of park unless the brakes are pressed. I have a 2001 LE and it does the same. It is a little loud but I think its normal. Have you ever moved out of "P" without pressing on the brake?

    In regards to the noise when switching between the modes, mine has a very slight "thump" if at all. As with bogged down sensation with the wheel, I'm not sure what to say. Other thoughts out there?
  • rcsuttonrcsutton Member Posts: 35
    I don't have a key problem yet, but I would like a spare. I went to "Nissan Auto Parts Online" (https://secure.sneplanet.com/nissan/catalogue.htm) and they have a "Remote Key fob" for $66.45. If I bought it would it work? or would all of my key's have to be reprogrammed or just one? can you have 3 keys programmed? I've really confused myself now. Would I save any money?
    Bob
    S.Fl
  • npathfindernpathfinder Member Posts: 21
    Has anybody with the Nav system purchased additional areas yet? Please let me know if anybody has MCA7 and MCA8. They are both for the northeast portion of the country. I have MCA6 but it does not cover everything I was hoping it would. If anybody has those CD's please e-mail me.

    milgrad@bellatlantic.net
  • selight2selight2 Member Posts: 9
    My local dealer (in NY)is offering a special deal called VPP for certain corporations, including $500 cash back and 3.9% financing:

    2001 Nissan Pathfinder SE 4X4
    Automatic
    Floor Mats
    In-Cabin Micro Filter
    Body Color Side Molding
    With Delivery, Ad fees, Destination
    $27,656
    Is this a good deal?
  • butterflymombutterflymom Member Posts: 3
    Dennis1950, and smokey75. Really appreciate your comments and information. I will
    read the FAQ and get better informed on the LE and SE choices. The O1 PF LE
    sahara beige was listed for 32,789 here in Lexington.

    Any Idea what Environmental Protection (198$), and Interior Protection (198$) are for?
    Also added was 99$ for pinstriping, I'm sure!

    Anyway, thanks again, will let you know what I come up with.
  • smokey75smokey75 Member Posts: 434
    Hey, about the Environmental Protection & Interior Protection you spoke of... refuse to pay for them. The Environmental Protection is not needed. It is used by dealers for profit only. Vehicles come from the factory with an undercoat & rust proofing. Dealers sometimes even use an underbody spray that can clog drain holes & CAUSE rusting. The Interior Protection is nothing more than a $5 dollar can of Scotch-Guard. Ask them to see a vehicle having Interior Protection applied & you decide if it's worth $198. I don't really like pinstriping, but even if you do, $99 is greatly inflated. Good luck
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    rcsutton Mar 8, 2001 6:07pm

    Once you have the spare fob you should be able to go back to the dealer to have it reprogrammed. But I can't be 100% sure whether it is the fob or the car that has to be reprogrammed, so you raise a good point. Why not just call your dealer and ask???
  • lofquistlofquist Member Posts: 281
    rcsutton,
    Note that the remote fob and the actual key are two separate things. The remote locks/unlocks the vehicle and is part of the alarm system. The key is part of the immobilizer system. They are programmed independently. Only the dealer can program additional keys. You or the dealer can program additional remotes. Here's how to do it (instructions for 2001; may be the same for other years):
    1) Get in vehicle and close all doors.
    2) Insert and remove key from ignition more than 6 times within 10 seconds (hazard lights will flash twice).
    3) Insert key again and turn to ACC position.
    4) Push any button on new remote once (hazard lights will flash twice). At this time the oldest code is erased and the new code is entered.
    5) To program additional remotes (maximum of four), lock the driver's side door (unlock first if it's locked) with the LH door switch, and then go to step 4.,
    6) Open driver's side door

    -Jon
  • lofquistlofquist Member Posts: 281
    I promised I'd write a quick note about a Hyundai Santa Fe and the Pathfinder from the car show. Well, honestly I've stalled for two days trying to figure out how to compare the two. On paper the SF is just barely smaller in most dimensions, but in person it feels much smaller (especially inside). And it had nowhere the nice feel as the Path does. Driving position, quality of materials and controls just didn't match up. The seats drove me out right away - it felt like sitting on a cardboard box. And of course I couldn't drive it (75% of the experience, right?).

    But everything I read about the SF says it's a great vehicle and a good value. In the Car and Driver "teeny SUV" article last month (Mar) it finished 6th of 11 with the pluses listed as nice powertrain, good ride, lots of room, and value. But it was being compared against the CR-V, RAV4, Sportage, Cherokee, and Xterra among others.

    So (being out of time this week) I'll leave this comparison as "an exercise for the student". But if the difference is only a few thousand it would be very hard to convince me it was a better value than the Path. If it's a huge difference, it just might be the ticket.

    -Jon
  • bgritzbgritz Member Posts: 139
    I added a tubular DrawTite classIII and a T-Harness in less than two hours, and less than $200. No drilling was required, and it wasn't to bad adding the new wiring under the rear panels.
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    Ok...I've had enough. What the heck does FOB stand for (as in keyless FOB, remote FOB, etc.) Is it an acronym? What?
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    It's a key fob, plain and simple. The modern usage of fob is derived from definition #2 below. You know, that free dealer advertising that your keys are attached to. But with keyless entry, the remote unit is the main fob on your key chain.

    From the dictionary:

    1. A short chain or ribbon attached to a pocket watch and worn hanging in front of the vest or waist.
    2. An ornament or seal attached to such a chain or ribbon.
  • pathstarpathstar Member Posts: 201
    Nissan Canada Leasing is nuts (unless they know I'm on this list...hmmm). I just bought out my lease (2001 LE). They send me a glossy brochure notice of $500 (Can.) cash back if you buy a Pathfinder or Xterra now. Anyway, for those of you thinking of buying in Canada, the price just dropped another $500 Can. ($333.33 US). That's the first and last time I lease a vehicle. I wasn't comfortable driving something I didn't own, and the required insurance was ridiculous.
  • captainroncaptainron Member Posts: 58
    I've got MCA1 and will have MCA7 when I pick up my Pathfinder tomorrow!!! (yeeha!). I too would love to have a chat with anyone who might have Navigation CDs other than #1 or #7. Of particular interest to me is MCA2. E-mail me if you'd like to talk about this...

    Captain Ron. . .

    ron.chase@internetmachines.com
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    thanks, Tony...jeez, it was an even dumber question than I thought...I didn't think it was a word so I didn't even look it up!

    Well, I'll be glad I have 4WD tonite...heading upstate NY where there's been a couple of feet of snow this past week and I hear it's still snowing now.
  • smokey75smokey75 Member Posts: 434
    Hey, still wondering if anyone can tell me what brand, type, & size tire comes on the 01 PF LE. Also, has anyone found the service manual cheaper than www.nissan-techinfo.com? Thanks...
  • lofquistlofquist Member Posts: 281
    smokey75,
    I have the 2001 Path shop manual on CD. Don't know of another source. But it's a very complete set. Over 2500 pages in .pdf format. Email me if you'd like to discuss or have questions.
    -Jon
    jonlofquist@aol.com
  • danogdanog Member Posts: 318
    Has there been any mention on how to see all responses so you can search for specific words on the page? I really wasn't sure I had seen it mentioned and would like to be able to without having to go back 20 messages at a time!
    Thanks,
    Dano
  • tonychrystonychrys Member Posts: 1,310
    Enjoy the ride!
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    The "see all messages" feature in the previous message board software will no longer be offered. However, we are working on an all new search feature that will hopefully make up for its lost; it too will hopefully be out soon.

    Thanks for you patience.
  • stvchangstvchang Member Posts: 10
    SELIGHT2- that's a pretty good price. Which dealer in NY is offering that price?

    Steve
  • li_sailorli_sailor Member Posts: 1,081
    Well, got up to snow country tonite and saw that the dirt road up to the house was not plowed...there was about 8-10" of powder and one vehicle track had gone before me...zig-zaging up indicating the trouble they had. I switched in 4 LO...and went up the hill smooth as silk...then the driveway..curving up and even steeper...no problem at all. I have the Dunlop Grand Treks...even though they are not 'snow tires' they were more than up to the task.

    Tomorrow I'll go to the lake parking lot and do some testing of AWD & 4WD in the really deep stuff :-).

    Tom
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