Nissan Pathfinder

mbunting · January 2001

Fellas...I purchased my 2001 Sierra Silver LE AWD on Saturday from Tischer Nissan in Laurel, MD --- as planned previously. $31,000 + TTL , no tricks or shaky sales tactics from my salesman, Rich Belliveau either. He was JUST great! AND SO IS THE VEHICLE!

And, I'm happy to report that THE SHIMMY has NOT been felt (as of yet anyway). It had just 4 miles on it when I took delivery on Saturday afternoon (now has 700 after my trip to Indianapolis today), I have been very careful with it so far and have been trying my best not to break any of the "break-in period" reccomendations. So far so good!

I love this vehicle...those heated seats really came in handy this morning also!!! I didn't want to stop driving it, that's how much I love it!

Thanks for all your help...now back to enjoying my vacation for the next couple weeks in my new LE!

Mike

simba6 · January 2001

Friends:
Can anyone suggest me, out of the two which one should one go for! considering the price / resale, horse power and overall quality!

:-)

tonychrys · January 2001

Welcome to my world.

My choice has come down to both the PF LE AWD and the JGC Limited V8. The only advice I will give you is this:

1. Test drive both the same day within an hour of each. That's what the wife and I did, and that's the only way you will really appreciate the differences.

2. As to precise, tight handling and good "road-feedback" the PF LE is the hands down winner. You don't even feel it sway when taking a curve.

3. As to comfortable ride and soaking up the bumps, the JGCL wins.

4. As to reliabilty, PF is hands down winner (we have a leased '97 PF SE and have never had a problem).

5. As to luxury appointments, creature comfort and cabin design, JGCL is the winner. Dual-climate control, trip computer, and vehicle programmabilty start the list off. 10-way power seats with memory for BOTH the seats and mirrors linked to the key-fobs.

6. Speed: it's a toss up. PF has the very repsonsive 240hp V6, it kicks butt. The JGCL has the 235hp V8 with 295(!) lbs of torque. It's fast too and can tow more.

7. Hardcore off-road: Do I even have to say it? Quadra-drive goes beyond the PF's auto 4WD.

8. Styling: they are both some of the better looking SUVs out there.

9. Price: The PF LE *was* the winner until recently. Jeep is offering agressive incentives, you can now get a $37,700 MSRP vehicle (a loaded JGCL with V8) for about 32,300 if you are agressive. That's right, almost $6000 off list, $2000 below invoice, with more features than the PF LE. Yes you can still get a PF LE a little cheaper.

Our choice: We're going for the luxury appointments. I do a lot of mileage and my tastes are changing in my old age (40 this April).

Don't get me wrong PF folks, the new PF kicks butt and is the better handling vehicle. But Jeep just made it too tempting for us with all the incentives. We would have bought the PF if it hadn't been for the Jeep price reductions.

Hope this helps in your comparison, but it doesn't matter what I say, it's really up to you to make a list of things that are important to you and then drive both for yourself. Make sure you tell each dealer that you are considering the other car and watch their reaction.

TC

P.S. If you want a SUV that's handling is in between the JGCL and PF LE, go drive a Lexus RX300. Very smooth. And another vehicle we were considering.

drew_ · January 2001

What happened to your quest for safety? :-) From the Pathfinder to the RX300 to the ML320 and now to the JGC? Wow! You've been busy. I'm posting this at the risk of offending you if you've already bought the vehicle.

I admit that the pricing is attractive here too (no general sales tax + $500 off at least, and for those who care, 0% financing for a period). Since safety is a top priority for me though, the JGC (last time I checked, it lacked even side impact airbags) is out because of its poor - for my standards - NHTSA and IIHS crash test performances. Rear legroom is also seriously lacking, and what is with the weird rear bench seat design for the middle position?

As for Quadradrive, yes, it works as advertised. However, for technical reasons that I don't really want to get into unless someone asks, the components have to be large and heavy to withstand the stress, so that adds to unsprung weight and a reduction in handling. I found it interesting that you thought that the JGC was more comfortable than the Pathfinder. I found the opposite to be true. With its solid axles, the entire vehicle (JGC) is really succeptible to bump steer; the shock on one side is transmitted to the other because of the non-independent suspension setup. This is extremely noticable on rough, undulating pavement and results in a rocking motion. A friend of mine with a '00 JGC Laredo immediately noticed the far superior ride and handling while sitting in my ML (I was only going 35 km/hr at the time, out of the parking lot!).

To add to the above, Jeep GCs haven't particularly been very reliable either. See Edmunds' long term '99 JGC Limited V8 and you'll understand.

Best of luck!

Drew
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simba6 · January 2001

Thanks everyone for their detailed inputs,
I agree in the end what matters is the relaibility since this will be my first vehicle and i intend to keep it for a long while, but the bad thing here is the car dealers, i was treated very badly at *Academy Nissan* in Col Springs, since i am new to the country they asked me to bring a co-signer to qualify for a 3.9% APR, which I did, after verifying his credentials, they agreed and asked me to get some cash down, which I got. In the end when last of the papers had to be signed they told me 3.9% is not possible but we could still give you a "premium rate".
How can anyone justify that, and is there a forum for putting such complaints, this was a really bad experience for me which I can never forget, and only complain!
Can anyone suggest me a fair dealer in Colorado!

:-(

meca2 · January 2001

Tonychrys: Didn't Chysler quit making Jeeps after 18 years??
Sorry.....

li_sailor · January 2001

Drew...thanks for the reply. I understand what you said (I think), my question is really what 'slippage transfer' the PF LE's AWD has vs LSD. This is very important to me since I may be buying (hopefully) next week.

I realize that this is not a subaru, but, to quote their slogan, 'from the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip', does this mean that, without the LSD option, PF's AWD does not transfer from the slipping wheel? just the slipping axle? (i.e., front to rear but not laft to right?). Aspenwhite gave us a link to MSN for a 4WD desc and in it is this: "Vehicles with all-wheel drive use a differential;or viscous coupling or clutch pack, depending on the vehicle's engineering;to maximize traction when needed. As wheels begin to slip in these vehicles, more and more power is automatically directed to the wheels where there is no slippage." So...is that it? PF's AWD only transfers between front and rear and only if you get LSD will you get left/right transfer (rear only)?

Also...when I switch from auto or 2WD to 4WD (hi or lo) on the PF LE am I not then getting a locking differential?

Sorry to belabor this point but I want to know what to choose.

thanks

xplorer2 · January 2001

Hi all,

I saw the post on the deflector, but does it really help? As I was driving to work today and my rear window was encrusted in dirt/grime, I realized maybe if it does SIGNIFICANTLY help, then I might invest. Where is the best place to get one, are there more than one type to install... I have a '01 LE Black.

Thanks!

johnskev · January 2001

i can say that the rear window deflector truely works. it's great in snow. a flake of snow never stays on the rear window. and dirt and grime also. the most dirt and grime i get is from the slushy road splash. it's easy to see where the wind is directed and where it keeps the window clean. with the combination of the rear window wiper, the back window is always clean.

-kj

(the rear window wiper alone would not do the trick, i would rather have the deflector alone rather than the wiper alone)

bgritz · January 2001

Thanks, I re-read the manual this weekend and found the section you were talking about. to be exact it says:

"...you should use at least 91 AKI (Anti-Knock Index) number (VQ35DE engine)...However, you may use use unleaded gasoline with an octane rating as low as 85 AKI (Anti-Knock Index) number in these high altitude areas [over 4,000 ft (1,219m)] such as:Colorado, Montana, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, northeastern Nevada, southern Idaho, western South Dakota, western Nebraska, and that part of Texas which is directly south of New Mexico." page 10-5

I filled up w/87 octane on Saturday night, then drove it up I-70 to Copper yesterday with three adults and gear, and it ran like a champ! I will keep an eye on the mpg to see if that changes much w/the lower octane.

almost 16.5k
ave mpg 18.5 w/K&N filter (5spd)
lovin' every smooth minute of it!!

Rear Deflector-there a big difference our rear window now ('01 SE) with the deflector and our old Cherokee w/o a deflector. Much more dirt /grime on the Cherokee window.

Shady Dealers-the whole low finace rate bait and switch is a tried and true method to get you in the door and into a car, then to call you back later asking for more money. I believe it's best to have financing set up before you walk in that door. Try your bank, Credit Union, or even online (eloan.com) good luck

crikey · January 2001

...it's great to know that your purchase went without a hitch. Glad that you're enjoying your PF.

crikey · January 2001

It seems that there is, indeed, a $500 rebate plus 3.9% financing for 60 months available on the PF.

For QX4 buyers, there is a $750 rebate plus similar financing.

xplorer2 · January 2001

Where did everyone get their rear deflector, dealer installed or after market? I would rather not have to pay a high fee for the dealer to do it, any help on this would be great, I think you have convinced me to get it.

calsig · January 2001

So far the best prices I've found on Nissan accessories has been at Future Nissan in Roseville, CA. They have been offering 25% off list prices plus free bottles of touch-up paint with your order. Most of the other online parts and accessories sites price at 20% off list. I picked up a pretty big order a couple of weeks ago (grille guard-$299.25, all-season rubber mats-$41.25, taillight guards-$126.75, rear window deflector - $58.50, in-cabin microfilter-$26.21, vertical mighty mounts-$8.25). The Nissan distribution warehouse out here is in Sacramento, so they got my parts in two days.

Their online store is:
http://www.store.yahoo.com/future-nissan/index.html

mmccabe2 · January 2001

Nearing decision on '01 SE with sunroof and the financing is holding me up. Can anyone confirm the incentives CRIKEY posted? 3.9% over 60 months would help me get this deal done. My dealer has made no mention of it and denied any promotions were available on Saturday. Thanks.

crikey · January 2001

The best thing to do to confirm this is to call your local Nissan Dealers and ask them. My Sunday Paper (Orlando Sentinel) indicated 3.9% financing for 60 months on all but a few models. In addition, the Nissan Vehicle Purchase Plan site indicated these incentives.

tonychrys · January 2001

Drew-
I'm not offended by anything you say. I've always found your posts informative and entertaining. Your input is greatly valued.

I hear you. I don't disput many of your points, except for the weight. What do you mean by unsprung? The JGCL curb weight is actually under 4k lbs which is pretty lite compared to others. Plus, I think I could probably buy an aftermarket suspension kit to tune it for a better ride.

As to reliabilty, I truly believe all the redesign kinks from '99 and '00 have been worked out. TSBs are almost non-existent for this year's model.

I discussed the safety with the wife, and bascially said everything you did. Her attitude was that she's been driving an SUV for the last three years and feels safe enough and is able to handle it (this was her arguement against getting the RX300 with all the active control systems).

We can bascially get the JGCL loaded for $32,263 US. I'm guessing the RX300 will cost us about $36,500 if I drive a hard bargain. The ML will cost even more. Throw on NY state tax of 8.5% and things get really expensive.

Maybe you can come to my house and talk to her ;-)

TC

aspenwhite · January 2001

I'm getting the R.W.Deflector too. I think it should be very simple to install.

MDQ_NTV, After owning too many grey and gold cars I went for the White LE. I like it but I'm not crazy about it. I wanted the Beige interior so I did not have too many choices. I see only Silver, Beige, White and Bronzed Gray on the streets. Did anybody went for any other color? abt the red one? (cherry I think is called) Txs. AW

phil47 · January 2001

What does your filter look like and how does it install??

I noticed on the K&N site that the models for both the 3.3L and 3.5L engines are the same (as you discovered). However, I know the style of filter on my 99.5 PF LE and my 2001 PF LE AWD are very different. On the 3.3, the airbox lid was removed and the filter pad was laying HORIZONTALLY on top. On my 3.5, you don't open the airbox but actually unsnap and remove only the filter which is mounted VERTICALLY (actually a very slick setup). Maybe it's the same filter, just installed very differently. Can you confirm how yours mounts and what the model number was? Thanks.

drew_ · January 2001

"So...is that it? PF's AWD only transfers between front and rear and only if you get LSD will you get left/right transfer (rear only)?"

You've got it! FYI, in most situations, the differential splits power equally between each wheel on an axle since each wheel has equal resistance. It's only when one wheel has less resistance that the power starts leaking to the slipping wheel (if you don't have some any kind of traction management). It is not the 4WD system that moves power from one wheel - on the same axle - to another, but the LSD. BTW, the Pathfinder with the auto 4WD option and the QX4 both use a clutch pack to transfer power from front to back and vice versa. I recommend that you keep it in the "auto" mode all of the time, even on dry surfaces. You'll probably only need to lock the centre differential (4WD Lock) when starting off and moving in thick or deep snow/mud. But then you will have to remember to switch back to auto after you're on your way and approaching dry/mildly slippery pavement.

Just so you know, I don't call the system AWD but auto 4WD. AWD systems (like in Subarus) typically don't have low and high range gearing. This system is actually more than just a simple auto 4WD system. It recognises certain slippery conditions (such as when you're braking on snow) and can transfer power to help to equalise traction on both ends of the vehicle.

Drew
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mmccabe2 · January 2001

Thanks for the prompt response, I am new to Townhall and am amazed at this forum for help. Where is the Nissan Vehicle Purchase Plan site located? I can't find it through Nissan's site or through Google. Thanks.

lspangler · January 2001

For those of you who have made modifications to the stock radio, ie. amps or subs, how did you patch into the stock radio? I am looking to add a couple amps for the extra depth they provide. I also have a 6 inch bazooka tube but I am unsure if I am going to use it in this vehicle.

So far no complaints

tonychrys · January 2001

I've never gotten a good explanation of this? Is it Auto 4WD, i.e., normally front wheel then transfer to the rear as needed? Or is it like other systems where a % of the power is always on each axle.

Not even the RX300 owners responded.

???

li_sailor · January 2001

Drew...thanks for that explanation. Very helpful and just what I needed to know.

drew_ · January 2001

Unsprung weight includes the mass of the tires, brakes, suspension linkages and other components that move in unison with the wheels. These components are on the roadway side of the springs and therefore react to roadway irregularities with no damping, other than the pneumatic resilience of the tires. The rest of the mass is on the vehicle side of the springs an therefore comprises the sprung weight. Disturbances from the road are filtered by the suspension system and as a result are not fully experienced by the sprung weight. The ratio between sprung and unsprung weight is one of the most important components of vehicle ride and handling characteristics.

Unsprung weight represents a significant portion of the total weight of the vehicle. In today's standard-size automobile, the weight of unsprung components is normally in the range of 13 to 15 percent of the vehicle curb weight. In the case of a 3,500 pound vehicle, unsprung weight may be as high as 500 pounds. A 500 pound mass reacting directly to roadway irregularities at highway speeds can generate significant vertical acceleration forces. These forces degrade the ride, and they also have a detrimental effect on handling.

It is because of the heavy solid axles on the Jeep (especially with QuadraDrive and the Vari-lok axles) that much of the vehicle's weight is unsprung. The transfer of power is also very noticable since steering effort increases dramatically (the Quadra-Trac system has no centre differential). In contrast, the Pathfinder uses a much lighter front independent suspension design. The M-class goes one step further with a four wheel independent suspension (with high strength aluminum alloy components).

As for the stability control system, unless your wife is a professional driver (which I don't think she is :-)), it's just about impossible to beat it. Have a look at this video clip.

There are other factors passive safety features that you could consider as well. Features that the Jeep lacks. For me, I'd rather spend more and get something that I know will last and hold up well in a variety of scenarios (rollovers, front offset, full width, rear end, side impact, etc.) than regret it later. This is the reason why I go around hunting for pictures to add to my miscellanous accident pictures gallery in my Photopoint album (http://go.to/m-class). At least the Pathfinder has front side airbags, a whiplash protection system, as well as good NHTSA full width front and side impact crash scores. Nissan could arguably do a whole lot more to improve the IIHS offset score though. I wasn't impressed with the RX300's rollover performance after 4 rolls.

8.5% sales tax? Count yourself lucky...here in British Columbia, there is a federal 7% general sales tax, plus a 7% provincial sales tax, and another 3% luxury tax for vehicles above CDN$32K. So, the vehicle ends up costing what ever price you get (MSRP in my case) + freight + 17% sales tax + insurance + BC tire/battery levy.

I believe the RX300 has a permanent AWD system, similar to the RAV4. Power is split 50/50 between axles, about the same as the M-class (48/52) and this helps to stabilise the vehicle futher on all surfaces. In the event of slippage, the power ratio can vary. How does permanent 4WD/full-time 4WD help on all surfaces? Read the following links:
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/need.html
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/tractionuse2.html
http://www.4x4abc.com/4WD101/tractionturn4.html

Drew
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pathstar · January 2001

The K&N for the 2001 model Pathfinder (3.5L) is the same filter as the 2000 (3.3 L) - I got the 2000 unit and it fits fine in my 2001 LE. It just mounts vertically. Much easier to get in and out! You do have to be a little careful when installing that it is sealed properly (watch that it slides onto the proper groves).

xplorer2 · January 2001

What material is the RWD made of, metal, plastic? I didn't see it on the page that CALSIG posted, thanks for that info. CALSIG.

tonychrys · January 2001

But those rollover pics are "unofficial". There might have been other circumstances. But I think most folks believe when he IIHS scores come out they will be good for this model.

We all can't afford the safety of an MB .

smithmd · January 2001

Drew,
I was looking at those scratches on the interior of the RX300 in your pictures. They actually look more like sandy mud splashes like I get all over my 4-wheeler in East Texas rather than scratches. It would make sense that some muddy water could have entered the cab on a roll over. What do you think?

phil47 · January 2001

Thanks for the explanation.

bgritz · January 2001

phil47,

Yes, I'm echoing what pathstar said above. it mounts in that slick vertical fashion. (thanks maxima). I'll check the box tonight and get the part number to you tomorrow.

ssbf · January 2001

Had a '97 SE and currently "01 LE Pathfinder Auto 4WD.
The SE comes with the rear deflector and yes the rear window is much cleaner. Been trying to decide on getting one for my LE but the deflector is a smoky plastic piece(when you purchase as an accessory from Nissan ) unlike the solid black deflector on the SE. Any suggestions?

As for the antenna, it used to be automatic but now is permanent. Do I have to remove it before going into a car wash?( Been washing car by hand , lol) Whats the easiest way to remove it?
Thanks.

drew_ · January 2001

Matt, that is not my Photopoint album, so I wasn't the one that added the captions. I agree, many of those look like dirt marks to me.

Tony, did you have a chance to price shop? You may be surprised, especially if you're willing to go for a leftover (but still brand new) '00 ML. There are no official rollover tests (of course, all companies do internal tests, but the results are usually not released), so one can only judge from the real world performance. You may be interested in this article however, as well as this picture.

Well, enough digression on my part. I'd be happy to discuss it off list if you like. Click on my username for my profile and e-mail address.

ssbf, I believe someone mentioned in the past that the SE deflector can be ordered, but I think it requires changing the rear liftglass hinges (and possibly some drilling) as well.

Drew
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loboy · January 2001

Ordered mine thru nissanpartsusa.com (read further before you order from them). It is the acrylic type (same as the sunroof deflector). Nissan part #999M1-VJ002. However, the application says it is for the 1998 PF and QX4. I'm hoping this is still good for the 2001. According to the instructions, you do replace the hinges, call "stanchions" but there is no indication of any drilling required. The deflector blade attaches to the new stanchions with a couple of screws. I'm still waiting for the rest of the parts to come in (ordered since November), namely the 2 stanchions. I don't want to start bashing nissanpartsusa, but do order at your own risk.

loboy · January 2001

Congratulations on your Pathinder! I'm sure you'll continue to enjoy the ride as we have. No problems so far on our 2001 aspen white LE AWD.

tonychrys · January 2001

I know you've been nervous about working this deal long-distance. I'm really happy for you that everything worked out.

Welcome back to the states.... and enjoy the miles!

drew_ · January 2001

Yes, congrats on your new vehicle, mbhunting!

loboy, you know come to think of it, I've never seen a white Pathfinder! Mostly Silver, Gold (my neighbour has a gold '00 LE), green and blue. I saw a white '01 Odyssey EX for the first time last week at a dealership.

Drew
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ssbf · January 2001

Loboy, how much is the deflector from nissanpartsusa? I have heard that the plastic deflectors ( like the sun roof deflectors) do not need drilling and it is the type that you get if you order from Nissan itself.
If you want the type like in the SE ( tougher and black color) , you will need drilling since the LE does not come with the deflector. Someone on this board paid $400 for it.

mustang5o · January 2001

I really want to buy a 01 pathfinder LE AWD. I will be towing a 20'9 travel trailer with 460 dry hitch weight and 3,700 dry weight w/o options. With the torque of the pathfinder, I believe it will not have a problem towing it. Has anyone towed with their pathfinder at this amount of weight? I am assuming with the options and gear, we are at 5,000 lbs. I really do not want to buy a big SUV like the Sequoia just to tow 10 times per year. Any input is appreciated.

li_sailor · January 2001

This is not a boat, right? 'Cause if it is, you need some margin over 5000 and the PF won't do it.

jmincher · January 2001

I hope I am in the right place. I am currently looking at a 1997 Nissan Pathfinder 4WD. I like the new models but its just not in the budget.

I know alot of you are repeat Pathfinder owners so I would like opinions on this vehicle if you have one. I know the V6 engine is underpowered by today standards but like I said I just can't afford new.

You can view the vehicle at www.okcautocollection.com All you have to do is select Used-Nissan-Pathfinder. Its pretty much self-explanatory.

The dealership is up-front pricing and they are giving me a price of $17,900. The vehicle has been on their lot for about 3 months without a price move so I think I might be able to negotiate a little.

Thanks in advance.

smithmd · January 2001

Sorry for the misunderstanding on the pictures. Glad we agree.

poswald · January 2001

I personally think the plastic rear spoiler add-on piece for the LE looks like crap and the $400 SE-like spoiler looks great (translation = it looks like it is suppose to be there) but is WAY too expensive at $400+. I have learned to live with a dirty rear window/hatch.

smithmd · January 2001

Don't let the thought of that motor being underpowered bother you. I have a '99.5 4x4 with the 3.3L. I think it has 3 more hp than the '97 model. You won't be mistaken for a 300ZX turbo, but you can get around just fine and you can even do some towing. Good luck working them down on the price! It'll be worth it.

bgritz · January 2001

Try this url:
http://performanceproducts.com/Catalog/KNENG/K&N Air Filter.asp

I couldn't find the box, & the K&N site is down so I can't check there.

good luck

johnskev · January 2001

my rear window deflector is the factory one (on my qx4). i figure it's similar to the one people are referring to on the SE: very sturdy, dark gray/black. i'm surprised it isn't available on the LE. infiniti made it standard on all qx4's.

-kj

crikey · January 2001

http://www.inissan.aa.psiweb.com/vpp/index.htm is the site. However, the NVPP is available only to Nissan employees and certain employers who have business affiliations with Nissan. In that site, it details the current incentives available.

jbarnes3 · January 2001

These discussions have been very helpful in helping me deal with the shimmy. Not that its fixed yet, but at least I'm armed with some information.

The problem we are having is the same as everyone else's. Slight shimmy over 55-60 mph (95 kmh for us Canadians). Nissan replaced the tires. From Dunlop Grandtreks to Bridgestone Dueler H/L's. The problem got worse. I had the tires rebalanced on a Hunter roadforce balancer including match balancing. No change. I asked the dealership to go through the bulletin (ST99-002). They said they did although I'm suspect on whether or not they measured the slide force let alone tighten it. No change.

Has anyone got the dealer to swap tires/wheels with a vehicle on the lot that is not experiencing shimmy to see if that cures it? Has anyone changed to BFG Radial Long Trails with better success. Has anyone actually had the shimmy fixed by the tightening of the slide force.

Any further comments would be appreciated.

Also, I too experienced the steering wheel "popping" when the temperatures got colder. Anyone figured out what that is yet? Are they related?

Thanks,
Shimmying and Popping in Vancouver, BC

PS. Someone posted awhile ago the comment "I so wanted to love this truck" - I know what you mean!

pathyenvy · January 2001

Has anyone who purchased in Canada installed a Thule or Yakima ski/snowboard carrier on their roof rack? I have a '01 LE and tried to install both but the rack is a few mils larger than the US racks. The clamps aren't big enough. Do these companies make a Canadian version?

own3nissans · January 2001

I have a Canadian PF and I seem to remember that "SteveinWashington" purchased the Yakima powderhound rack for his Canadian model. It seems to me that he had to do some modification, but the shop he bought it from helped him out with the proper gear. I'm hoping to add a rack to my PF so I hope that we get a response.

Steve in Washington are you out there?

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