Jeep Grand Cherokee

wfbarto · August 2001

As I review the old posts on this board I see that there are numerous complaints about brake rotor warpage. Could someone look in their Owner's Manual and see what the wheel lug nut tightening spec is in ft-lbs. and post it to the Board? The reason I ask is that I am getting suspicous that many of the car/truck manufacturers are specifiying too high of a wheel lug nut tightening torque spec for vehicles. I currently have three vehicles - two of them specify 100 ft-lbs. for the lug nuts and the other one 75 ft-lbs. The two with the higher factory spec have both exhibited rotor warpage. The one with the lower torque spec - not a bit after 55,000 miles! One of the vehicles with the 100 ft-lbs. spec I purposefully reduced to 85 ft-lbs. about 15,000 miles ago and so far guess what - no warpage or pulsating brakes! Since it is a well known fact that overtightening the lug nuts leads to rotor warpage - perhaps there is a direct correlation here. Overtightening is a common problem when you take your vehicle into the dealer or a tire shop as most of them will simple use the air gun ratchet to put your lugs back on without individually measuring the final torque settings - easy and quick is the way they go! I would be interesting in hearing if anyone else has any knowledge or experience in what I am describing - and I would also be interested to see what the Grand Cherokee lug nut tightening spec is. Thanks!

rinkinkin · August 2001

re my previous messages.
At time of third and warranty rotor replacement at 19500 km, I specifically asked my rep. to make sure they use torque wrench to tighten nuts ; he defensively said they always do that.
I retraced the events that happened ever since I p/u my 2000 GCL last Sept. -- first the dealer upgraded my tires for free so the factory torque specs are not followed, which may have led to rotor warpage at 6000 km and 12000km ( the tire rotation at 10000km was done at a tire shop and torque wrench wasn't used for sure--I watched)
Now last week I check the last rotor replacement and guess what? The nuts were so tight it almost bend my back to loosen them. I retighten them by the historical way . I am observing how long this set of rotors will last. So far only 1200km had accumulated and hard to tell whether overtightening the nuts caused rotor warpage -at least for the GCL..
Will report to board .
note: manual spec around 185 - 225 ft pd.

doublenerd · August 2001

I bought my '97 LTD 4x4 with I-6 and Up-Country new off of the lot. All of my problems, passenger seat motor, CD and fuel gauge, were fixed under warranty.

I just clicked over 98k this past weekend. I do keep it well-maintained and serviced from a friend of mine whom I met before I knew he was a Jeep mechanic at Nalley Jeep in Roswell, GA.

I run nothing but Goodyear Wrangler HPs on it and I normally get at least 25-30k on the tires before replacement (39k on two of the originals). I usually find some way of puncturing at least one tire just after I purchase four new ones. If the Jeep your looking at is a 4x4, then have all of the tires replaced at one time and keep them rotated accordingly.

Yeah, I have the gear whine. But the stereo is awesome and will drown out the noise if you let it. It's a 4x4, so the noise comes with the territory. If you think the whine will be an issue, then you might want to consider a 2wd.

Maintenance isn't cheap, but I've had a blast with mine.

FYI, it's never jumped out of park.

wfbarto · August 2001

rinkinkin - are you sure that the manual says 185 to 225 foot pounds? That is ways too high and probably unachievable. Are you getting your units of measurement mixed up with metric equivalents. I see that you are from Canada and I bet the manual you have does not express the lug nut torque spec in foot pounds. That would seem to have to be the case! How about checking that again for me - thanks!

rinkinkin · August 2001

I just checked my manual. It says 85 - 115 ft pd.
Thanks for letting me know the mistake.
sorry folks,

wfbarto · August 2001

rinkinkin - Okay - that sounds more like it - but to get to the upper part of that range (115 ft-lbs.) you will really have to wrench your back with a torque wrench to get that high. I would use the lower number of 85 ft-lbs. and see what that does for the rotor warpage. I have also switched to ceramic material brake pads on my wife's Toyota Avalon and so far so good. They dust very little and they are supposed to be absolutely quiet - no sqweaking or sqwealing! I am not sure if they will run at lower temps or not which will also help with the rotor warpage issue.

livetodrive · August 2001

I signed up for the Jeep 101 course. I get to spend an hour driving over an obstacle course, and the best thing about it is that it will be with a new Jeep Liberty, not my JGC. It sounds like fun. Has anyone tried it?

ecc1 · August 2001

I'm interested in the Grand Cherokee, but it sure seems to have it's share of problems. Anyone know if the 2001's are more reliable?

rinkinkin · August 2001

I am going to torque it to 85 in the morning and monitor the situation. Sure glad if this is the cause and I guess a lot of owners will be delighted too if it solves the rotor warpage. The next warpage will be from my own pocket.
Thanks again

wfbarto · August 2001

I also had another person point out to me an interesting point that may be a contributing factor concerning rotor warpage. How many people wash their cars (either by hand or in the automatic car wash) right after they have operated them for some time and the rotors, wheels and brake components are steaming hot. A good shot of cold water on these components when they are hot must create a tremendous and rapid temperature drop. If the shot of cold water is not evenly distributed over the surface of the rotor (likely to happen when washing the car!) how much could this contribute or be a cause of rotor warpage! I don't know if there has ever been a study on this but wouldn't it be interesting to see if there is a correlation between the "washing" factor described above and those that have major problems with rotor warpage. I suspect that this "may" be a factor along with the lug nut overtightening mentioned in previous posts. Of course the selection of disc brake pad material (organic vs. metallic vs. ceramic, etc.) as well as the overall quality of the OEM rotor materials and the design of braking system (ie. are the rotors and calipers of sufficient design size for the weight and operating characteristics of the vehicle.) As for me I plan to use ceramic pads in the future, make sure the lug nuts are at spec (low end of the specified range) and won't wash the wheels until they have cooled off after operation.

wlbrown9 · August 2001

Well, that may have some validity, but I think I tend to run through puddles, etc on the road more than I get the rotors wet while washing. Think of the cycles of heat and cooling; stop and go traffic with intermittent showers/puddles... not much you can control there.

The un-even or overtightening is more likely IMHO. The '99 1st warped rotors came soon after the dealership had the front end aligned...don't remember if they rotated and balanced while they were doing that. Second warped set came 15000 miles later after at least 2 balance and rotations. Traded for a '00 when they would not talk about replacing second set of warped rotors (had several other problems fixed under warranty). At 14,000 miles the '00 rotors were warped, maybe a couple thousand miles after first rotate and balance. DC would not even consider replacing them under warranty. Filed case with customer service, dealer rep. called me and basically blew me off. I bought a set of rotors from Autozone (about $100 including tax) that have a 24,000 mile warranty.

Just got my survey from the service where they fixed the fuel pump and blew me off on the rotors. I am rating them way down and getting some shots in on DC Customer service non-response.

eenglish · August 2001

I'm on my third set of rotors after 23,000 miles.

The first time they replaced the rotors at about 15,000 and I was told that the pads didn't need to be replaced.

The second time, I had already looked up the TSB below, specifically listed it in my work order and they replaced the rotors but not the pads. I didn't have time to fight with them then, and I knew that I had to come back to get the from differential overhauled.

When I came back the third time after about 1,500 miles, one of the rotors was already showing abnormal wear. I again specifically mentioned the TSB. They said that they would replace the pads but they would not be covered. I pushed on this and the service manager did replace the pads and also put on new rotors again at no cost. They said that these were the 'better and more expensive pads".

The TSB says that the pads have backing to keep them from sitting on the rotors.

It appears if you have the TSB info and push it, they will cover this. At least they did for me. I hope this is a real fix.

I also pushed on the from end whine on my I6 select track. They finally overhauled it.
The TSB for this is 03-05-99 (Sept 24, 1999).
It's too long to include.

Here's the TSB on the rotors.

"Knowlegde is power"

Brakes - Roughness or Pedal Pulsation
NUMBER:
05-01-00 Rev A

GROUP:
Brakes

DATE:
April 14, 2000

SUBJECT:
Brake roughness or pedal pulsation when the brakes are applied.

MODELS:
1999 - 2000 (WJ) Grand Cherokee

OVERVIEW:

This bulletin involves installing a brake pad repair kit and turning the brake rotors with an on-car brake rotor lathe or replacing the rotors if on
car equipment is not available.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:

Customer may experience a vibration of the steering wheel, floor, seat, instrument panel or a minor pedal pulsation (brake roughness) under light
to moderate pedal application. This can be caused by excessive thickness variation on the rotor surface.

DISCUSSION:

A new brake pad repair kit has been released which contains an adhesive backing. This will provide for a more positive release of the brake pad
when the brake pedal is released. This, in turn will move the pad away from the rotor, resulting in less friction and wear, which resulted from the
pad resting on the rotor when the brakes were not applied.

The preferred method to reduce any variation at the brake rotor surface is to resurface the rotors using an "On The Car" brake lathe such as the
Pro-Cut lathe which is available through Pentastar Service Equipment. This equipment does an excellent job of correcting all variation at the
rotor surface. "Off the Car" equipment can correct variation on the rotor surface but does not correct for variation on other rotating components
such as the hub. Situations can occur where a rotor and hub, mounted together, both within specifications, can stack up tolerances resulting in
lateral runout, which can cause a pedal pulsation.

PARTS REQUIRED:

1 05018592AA Brake Pad Kit

AR 52098672 Rotor

EQUIPMENT REQUIRED:

Pro-Cut on car brake lathe (or equivalent) if available

POLICY: Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.

travez · August 2001

I had the same infamous problems with DC rotors. The problem is that MOPAR has been using remanufactured rotors and brakes for years. Another variable of my brake problem was a defective speed sensor for front driver-side ABS brake. The sensor would miscalculate the speed causing loss of compression to the brake pedal. Also when stopped if applied pressure was decreased the vehicle would lunge forward. My brake pads had excessive wear from this fritzy sensor. This was in a TSB from DC, but like all the other one's, your DEALER does not inform you of them.

travez · August 2001

I have about 38800 mi. on my 99' V8 Laredo. The engine was tuned w/ new plugs at 27000mi. and has been maintained on a regular basis. I have had the normal brake and tranny problems like many others but this new. A few days ago it began to start rough and gives off a nasty rotten smell when I exceed speeds of 40mph. I also noticed a bogged down feeling with a loss of power when slowing down or accelerating. It almost feels as if it is dead but the RPM's rise and it wines then restores normal power. I just wanted to see if any else had this problem and gain a little insight before heading in to the dealer. THANKS

anthony921 · August 2001

....so many problems associated with one model car. I really feel bad for the Jeep GC owners that have the same problems over and over again. In Consumers Reports, the September issue, the Jeep GC got a pretty bad write up (it was rated much worse then average for reliability)right up there with the Dodge Durango. Based on what I've been reading here, I'm not surprised. DC is in major trouble with losing market share as well as loads of money. There have been massive layoffs and probably more to come.

What amazes me is that anyone would take a chance on a Jeep vehicle. The problems with the GC have been around for years, it's not like it's new. Now there is another problem with the tranny coming out of park for no reason. This on top of all the other problems. I also feel bad for the ones who couldn't wait to run out and get a new Jeep Liberty. Based on Jeep's poor track record they too, like all other Jeep products, will have a very poor resale value. The only way Jeep will get it's act together is if people demand a quality product. How? Don't even consider buying inferior vehicles, no matter who makes them ! Let the buyer beware. Shop smart !!!

meemo87 · August 2001

Saw a new 2002 JGC today. The V8 was listed as being High Output and was designated by an "H.O." under the V8 logo on the back. Anybody have any information on this engine? The salesman didn't know anything about it, had no information on it and Jeep's web site has no mention of it. Looks like it is a $1500 option whereas the regular V8 is around $1000. The two at this dealer had pretty sharp wheels with all black Michelins, no lettering. Any information would be helpful.

ehyland · August 2001

I too have a problem similar to post #445. Within 5-10 seconds after stopping, at idle, the oil pressure gauge drops to 0. There is no change idle and no strange noises. It started only when towing but no happens intermittently during regular driving.

Anyone has similar problems and know what was repaired. If possible I would really like to do the repair myself.

Thanks in advance.

winbro · August 2001

why dont you give the liberty a chance to prove you right or wrong. I am one who ran out to buy one and so far I am very happy. I'm also sure there are plenty of GC owners that are perfectly happy. I dont trust consumer reports at all. Most of their tests are somewhat deceiving and then they tend to skew the results into what they want to say depending on how they feel about the product line and it's manufacturer's history. Case in point, they rave over the triscape twins and if you read the forums you get a totally different view of the quality of these products, but they do win in the 0-60 category and they are lower in price. well just sit in one and you'll see just how cheap they really are. Then there is the 2001 montero that they rolled over but were vague about the testing speed as compared to other suv's. now the montero is blackballed because CR said the word & CR is GOD. I'm sure when it come time for them to test the liberty, it will come under such scrutiny that only the most perfect vehicle ever created could live up to their standards. of course their standards change as they test cars from those companies they like (or possible launder money into their 501c3 organization).

anthony921 · August 2001

I am giving the Liberty a chance as only time will tell. What I was trying to get across is that based on their history, quality is certainly a problem. I hope, again only time will tell, that there 'act' is finally together.

As far as Consumer Reports go, I would disagree with you. I have used them, in conjunction with other information over the past 20 years and have found them to be very accurate and impartial. You state that they rave over the Triscape twins but the forums here show a different story.

CR wasn't reporting on their reliability only on their road test preformance as they don't have any information as to how they will hold up over time. The forums here, to a large degree, reflect the reliability issues that some of the owners are having. Wait until the April 2002 auto issue of CR comes out. I'm fairly sure that will reflect the Edmunds forum in terms of problems just as it does with the Jeep GC. CR rates that vehicle 'much worse then average' something that seems very accurate based on the forums here.

I will agree that the TriScape twins are very cheap feeling vehicles so I quickly eliminated them after my road test earlier this year. The five recalls plus the continued problems they seem to be having makes me very comfortable with that decision. I read the report on the Montero and didn't see anything vague about the reporting. I'll have to take another look though.

American car owners generally don't care for CR because, in my opinion, they tell it like it is and as a result those cars don't fare too well against the imports. Those reliability ratings, by the way, are based on information sent back to CR by consumers. CR only reports the information. I like the fact that CR doesn't accept any advertisements that could somehow affect how impartial they remain. How many magazines can you say that about? The major car mags are generally very 'nice' in their car reports, addressing preformence issues, almost never touching the issue of reliability even in their 'long term' reports. I find a big difference in reporting 'style' between them and CR. I prefer the truth, not something sugar coated. I certainly don'y use just CR for my information. As you well know, thanks to the internet, there are many places to go to find out information about a vehicle including forums like Edmunds, NHTSA.gov and so on. When you get very similar feedback, well, 'if it quacks like a duck.....'

In any event, I wish you the best with your new Liberty. As long as you're happy with it, that's all that really matters.

fishrxman · August 2001

Where do you find information when your Toyota Highlander has problems? If you have a specific problem not available in the literature, do you ask your neighbor who drives a GMC Jimmy? The fact that you are involved in this discussion indicates to me that you give some credence to the views expressed here at Edmunds. IF you have taken the time to read ALL 518 posts, you will see patterns emerging for specific problems for specific model years. The information IS invaluable from a consumer standpoint to find and correct problems. If all JGC owners expressed their views about their vehicles' performances here, then your remarks in post #514 MIGHT be 100% justified. The fact is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". And if it doesn't need fixing, why talk about it? Therefore, the posts here are skewed toward problems and solutions. I know because I've posted those problems with my 2001 JGC. The gear whine is back, both front and rear. Yes, it needs repairs again and that's why there is a warranty. I was extremely happy with my 1993 JGC (1st model year) before I sold it-to a friend.
As a consumer, I do my homework. I follow the media and this message board for information about JGC.

You are absolutely correct that people should demand a quality product. Your solution assumes: 1)that ALL Jeep products are junk and therefore should not be purchased. Jeep gives owners 3 years/30k miles to work out the problems. Like all durable goods producers, auto manufacturers must rely on their reputation to encourage repeat sales and references. The consumer still has the final say.
2)people demand perfection. Certain vehicle parts are made to wear out and be replaced. SUVs (especially 4x4s) have more working parts than autos. So, more maintenance is needed. I accepted that fact when purchasing the JGC. The expectations of many people are too high.

I don't see people flocking to this site, or anywhere else, saying Jeep Grand Cherokee is awful so don't buy it.

All I see is you making an inflammatory statement based purely on speculation about a subject of which you have no knowledge. Ford Explorer has many problems, too. Look at THAT message board. Finally, if you something constructive to say, let's hear it!

winbro · August 2001

thanks for setting the record straight RE: jeep & liberty etc. we may still differ on CR.

I hope we are right about the liberty. It is the first jeep product I have owned so I guess I'm taking my chances based on past history. I will be the first to critisize jeep if owners start reporting problems in droves. Since there is not a whole lot of history with this vehicle, I can only comment on the quality of the build components and the fit and finish. Both appear to be excellent so far. I have a limited w/the G package, and compared to a comparable tribute ES interior, the liberty is noticably better.

give it a year or so & the mechanical reviews will start coming in.

denali8 · August 2001

When will the 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee be in the showrooms?

rsholland · August 2001

are now arriving.

I saw several today. 4x4 badge is now under Jeep badge on the tailgate. Roof rack croos bars are missing. The base price seems to have dropped quite a bit (around $2K?). Full-size spare is now standard.

Bob

mazurkie · August 2001

I was shopping at a Jeep dealer near Atlanta today and found only two 2002 models on the lot. They had a large selection of GC's in inventory (more than 50).

The one that I looked at was missing the roof rack cross bars and protective rubber strips on the roof.

Comparing factory window stickers from identically equipped 2001 and 2002 models, I noticed the gas mileage ratings for the 2002 were 19 hwy, 14 city for the V8 - a little lower than the 2001's. The cargo net feature was not listed on the 2002 sticker (it was specifically listed on the 2001 sticker). And the MSRP was less for the 2002 model at $32,665 vs. $35,845 for the 2001.

I am unable to find very much info on the internet for the 2002's yet. Maybe someone can explain the missing cross bars and cargo nets, and the mileage and MSRP differences?

rsholland · August 2001

is also not coming through with roof rack cross bars. They're a dealer option. That could also be the case with the new '02 Grand Cherokee.

I wonder what else they cut out, in order to lower the MSRP? I'm glad to see a full-size spare as now being standard.

Bob

bostnwhalr · August 2001

I'd rather get a vehicle with roof rails and no cross bars. If you're serious about using a rack, you'll want to put your own rack system like Thule, etc. It is difficult to get a wide variety of attachments (kayak) for manufacturer's roof rack bars.

anthony921 · August 2001

Wow, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or what? :-)

I'll try and address the questions and comments you made: As far as where I would go if I had a problem with my Highlander not found in any literature....I would do what everyone else has done here. Post a message asking if anyone else has had the same problem I was experiencing. Yes, I do value and give much credence to the posts at Edmunds. Why? Because the sum total of so many experiances, both good and bad, is invaluable information when thinking about purchasing a vehicle.

No, I haven't read all 518 posts but I've read the vast majority of them here as well as most of the others in the SUV forums. I didn't have to read all of them here to discover the same thing you did, namely the patterns emerging that you mentioned for specfic problems for specfic model years.

You seem to imply mostly negative comments are written here about the GC, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and you state that the comments here are skewed towards problems and solutions. There are some people who are happy with their GC. Not all the posts are negative. My point is that there seems to be a much higher amount of people with problems then a lot of the other SUV forums. Let me ask you this? Why aren't some of the other forums skewed toward problems and solutions? The answer.... Much better quality therefore less problems. Please, don't mention the Ford Explorer. I consider them in the same arena as the Jeep GC, just as problematic, again based on available information from different sources. The Ford Escape? Five recalls? Sorry, no excuse for that. There now appears to be a problem with the engines dieing for no reason while being operated. Check out the Escape forum for more info on this.

Regarding your GC you state " Yes, it needs repairs again and that's why there is a warranty". This is what I don't understand frankly. You sound so complacent, like this is what is supposed to happen with all 4WD vehicles. That the same parts are suppose to break down and that, ol well, it's under warranty so who cares. Guess what? It's not. A warranty is to cover mechanical failure within a certain mileage/time frame. If the same parts keep failing what happens after the warranty? Better yet what happens when the same parts fail and Jeep decides that it will no longer cover the repairs even though it's within the warranty period?

The rotors are a good example of this. Rotors going after 3-6000 miles is normal? Can all those people who posted here be wrong? Can all those who complained to NHTSA be wrong? I've read a lot of posts about this problem as well as the gear whine, the death wobble etc...I have three friends at work who have GC. None of them is happy and the list of constant problems and repeat problems is too long to list. There experiances are in line with what is posted here as well as what was reported in CR. That the Jeep GC seems to have an inordinate amount of problems, say a higher percent of problems as compared to others.

Why would a person tolerate these problems is what I can't fathom?

I never said that ALL Jeep products are junk. Just that based on ALL the available information, they seem to have a much higher incidence of problems then some others. Yes, Jeep does give you a 3 year/36,000 warranty. I thought that was to cover the occasional problem that might pop up not to cover the same problems repeating themselves over and over until Jeep decides it won't cover it anymore because they realize that they can't fix it. Not to mention all the aggravation of getting the vehicle repaired and the down time. Sorry, but my time is too important wasting it waiting for my vehicle to get repaired . Again.

As to your comment that people demand perfection...you are kidding right? I don't think anyone expects perfection from any car model. How about that the same parts don't fail? Or maybe when they are repaired, they stay that way? How about not having a laundry list of problems over the life of the vehicle? How about if a part can't be fixed (say brake rotors) that the manufactor issues a recall for an obvious defect/poor design instead of telling people they won't cover it anymore, sorry. For a $30,000 plus vehicle, is that really too much to ask for? I don't think so.....

You say more maintenance is required with 4wd's. I agree with that. You seem to equate maintenance with defective parts and poor workmanship. There is a huge difference. You say that the expectations of people are too high? Again, you have to be kidding..... I EXPECT a quality product, one that will last without the same problems coming up again.....I EXPECT the manufacturer to respond to any problems I might have in a fair way....I EXPECT decent resale value when the time comes to sell it and I EXPECT an enjoyable experiance while driving it. Is that really too much to ask? I agree with you that consumers have the final say. That is why DC has had massive layoffs, declining market share, and loads of 2001's on the dealer lots that they can't get rid of.

I don't think anything I previously posted could be considered inflammatory. Not sure where you got that from. Could you be more specfic? Speculation? The negative posts here are speculation? CR and NHTSA speculation? I don't think so. A subject of which I have no knowledge? Because you own a GC that automatically makes you a more informed person about cars? Maybe about getting repairs done (sorry couldn't resist that one ). I seemed to have hit a nerve with you re: my last post, why I'm not sure. As I told winbro, as long as you are happy with your GC, that's all that matters.

My point is that people, especially people who have purchased the same vehicle line all their lives, shouldn't just resign themselves to the fact that poor workmanship and inherent design problems are what's to be expected. (I remember one lady in the Ford forum state that "I've always purchased Fords so I guess I'll buy another". Gee, what a stunning endorsement!! If more people would stop buying junk, car makers would be FORCED to improve, thereby causing consumers less headaches.

Please don't take things so personal. They are only cars.....As to your last comment....I didn't think that saying something 'constructive', at least your definition of constructive whatever that may be, was a prerequisite to posting here. I thought these forums were for exchanging idea's, opinions and experiences. Did I miss something? :-) Good luck with the GC !!!!

rinkinkin · August 2001

I hate to say that I agree with you. I wonder what is the purpose of DC having a Customer Service Dept.when the rotor and gear whine problems existed since '99 .
Do they ever send feedback or customer surveys to HQ . With piles of defective rotors in the garbage bin at the back of service dept (as one reader wrote) , they are still making the same junk for the 2001 or maybe 2002. Do they ever learn from mistakes?????? or are we tolerating their mistakes ??? or they run out of solutions?? Or the waranty claims hasn't ding their revenue enough ????
Seems that the gear whine and the rotors are the two major defects GCL has, why don't they do something?????

bobhex40 · August 2001

I saw something about DANA progressive lock Axle on the sticker of a Quadradrive Limited. perhaps they are quieter that 2001.

winbro · August 2001

I also agree that the owner should have the flexibility of the cross rails of thier choice. or none at all (in my case). I bought the waterproof car top carrier from jeep that does not need the rails but is secured by the side rails. I only anticipate using this 3-4 times a year. I also hear that cross rails contribute to wind noise.

jeffc1 · August 2001

Thank GOD the lease on my 1999 JGC Limited is almost over. I just put money into turning the rotors (not aware of any problems according to 5 star service). I still have maybe the noisiest newish vehicle on the road. Between the gear whine (this is normal according to 5 star service) and the engine which seems to get more obnoxiously loud by the day (this is normal according to 5 star service). The leasing company wants to know what I want to do with my vehicle. I believe that turning it in is the nicest thing I can think to do with it.

WINBRO - Wind noise from the cross bars may be there but my vehicle is too noisy to tell. Unless they strap a rock band to the cross bars, I'd never hear it

ereber · August 2001

My question is how can Ford get hit with a class action law suit on ignition switch while Jeep/DC gets a way with putting on defective rotors they know they have a problem with??? How many accidents are going to have to be caused from the steering wheel shaking violently before they will do something. All of the service managers I've talked to say they can't believe DC hasn't done something by now. The local dealer brought in a special container to put all the warped rotors due to excessive quantity. Never again!!!

hotstuff1 · August 2001

...for the right SUV. I have a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee coming off lease, thank goodness. This was the vehicle from hell as far as reliability. Pure junk. Does anyone really think that the past quality control issues have been rectified, not to mention the very poor dealer service like telling me they will not replace the front brakes anymore even though it's obvious they are defective??

I think anyone who wants to gamble their hard earned bucks on a Jeep product is nuts. I did test drive a Toyota Highlander and the difference in quality, fit and finish was dramatic. Talk about smooth. The GC is no where in the same class as this vehicle as far as the feeling of quality of a well put together vehicle. It may not be able to go everywhere the GC can, but that's not an issue for me as I've yet to go off road with the Jeep I have.

I like the the 4WD for the snow, not for any rock climbing. An article posted here at Edmunds stated that the 'experts' estimate that 95% of 4WD owners never go off road ! The Highlander ride is outstanding, and the drivetrain is silky smooth (the same drivetrain in the Lexus RX-300 including the 220 HP V6). I still have a few other SUV's that I want to look (including the Xterra) at but so far nothing comes close to the Highlander. Even the interior screams quality, not made up of cheap plastics that aren't put together right.

My friend, who is a big Toyota fan, told me that unless you test drive the Highlander and compare you'll never 'move up' to the next level, assuming that what's out there is good enough. Boy, was he right!! Toyota's reliability is already proven, about as bullet proof as you can get. When I think of all the time I wasted in the Jeep dealership, not only arguing to get the darn repairs done, but the time waiting for parts, the time waiting for the actual repairs.....I could scream!!!

Thank goodness this was a lease. I feel sorry for the person who buys it as a used vehicle. As for me, I refuse to a part of the 'Jeep Experiment', hoping that Jeep finally gets it act together AFTER buying their product. No, I won't walk away from a Jeep product, I'll run!!!! Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me!!!

hotcoffee · August 2001

There is some disagreement about which 4wd position on the Select-Trac is correct for winter driving where wet and slippery conditions will be encountered while mosly traveling on dry pavement

I believe (at least on the Grand Cherokee) the 2wd and FULL TIME 4wd are marked in GREEN lettering because they are okay to use on dry pavement. ALL other positions are YELLOW thus grouped for loose surface only....

I have been told this is the case...

Anyone....

travez · August 2001

I'm not an expert but, the Part Time engagement is intended for slippery, wet and loose surfaces only. I believe it is stated in the owners manual. If Part Time is activated and your on dry pavement you will feel the wheels "joggle" when turning. I have a friend that works in the repair dept. at New Venture Gear, he told me they receive many Xcases that have gone bunk do to use on dry surfaces. He told me this most commonly happens on the NV231 or Commnd-Trac which are found on most of the Cherokee's and now the Liberty. Low range should be used with caution at a low speed in low gear. As for Full Time on the NV242(Select-Trac),it can be used on any surface no matter what the condition is. You can always go to WWW.jeepunpaved.com for more info.

hotcoffee · August 2001

I have no manual for my JGC.

I'll check the Jeep site too...

fishrxman · August 2001

Am frustrated and upset. Gear whine back (rear) and new problem in front. Am calling dealer today-again. Never experienced lots of vehicle prolems with my old vehicles. I really want my JGC to be great. So far, disappointing.

To anthony921: now my eyes are open, and my foot removed from my mouth.

As for problems that aren't resolved, and when all recourse fails, call your state Office of Consumer Protection (Justice Dept., Agriculture Dept. in Wisconsin). If, & when, enough complaints are lodged against DC for its warped rotors and whining differentials, maybe a class action suit will evolve.

anthony921 · August 2001

Hey, no hard feelings at all.....sorry to hear about the additional problems with the GC. I know exactly what you are going through. I had a 1978 Dodge Aspen with never ending problems. (My last American car purchase by the way.) Very, very frustrating !!

Don't forget to look into the Lemon Law. Each state varies a bit as far as how it's applied, but it might be worth a shot.

I wish you the best !!!!

laboutj · August 2001

I took the plunge and bought a 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. Steel Blue, 26F, leather int. and sunroof. I did pretty well with price too. $300 below invoice before the $2500 rebate. Keeping my fingers crossed that there's no problems with it. I sold my 96 JGC (which didn't have one problem).

wagner7 · August 2001

I purchased a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 21/2 months ago. Since then, it has been in for service 6 times for a total of 20 days and the problem still isn't repaired. Any suggestion on a loud bumping/clunking noise between gears? The best we can figure, it happens between 2 and 3, both upshifting and downshifting.

leo948 · August 2001

still happy w/my jgcl. haven't experienced any major problems yet. my radio just started clicking one day (about 3-4 months ago) and i received a replacement 3 days later. and just last week i needed to get my brake rotors resurfaced/turned after 13.5k miles when i started noticing a slight pulse. other than that, i'm averaging 17.1 mpg in mixed driving, interior & exterior are still like new although i'll probably need a new driver side mat because of the heel marks, all electronics are fine, no trans problems (clunks, whines, etc) but that may be because i don't have the 4wd, all controls/accessories working as expected. i absolutely love the steering wheel controls and i feel deprived when i'm driving a different car/suv w/o them, and it's still got that amazing v8 power!. all in all, i'm really enjoying my jeep and would buy one again.

later..

yiyoungsun · August 2001

JGC V8 stalling problem can be fixed by a very recent recall to reprogram the computer. But, the recall doesn't say to fix the stalling problem. Rather it says to fix a problem related to some else I don't remember. Or you can call Art Shannon, Service Director, at 781-581-6000. He knows all the details. He is a great guy. My JGC '99, V8, has RPM about 650 while in DR position. Before the fix, it was below 500. Good Luck

lrichards · August 2001

Hi,
Saw your post on looking for the right SUV. After reading posts on this JGC board, I decided the JGC was not for me. Too many problems! I test drove a Nissan Pathfinder and fell in love with it! I've had it since April and haven't had a problem. This is one you should look at.

hotstuff1 · August 2001

Thanks for the sugestion....The Pathfinder is a great SUV and I should have included on my list along with the Xterra. Might as well give both of them a test drive while there.

I can't wait to get rid of this over priced nightmare from hell Jeep GC. I really feel sorry for the person that gets stuck with it.

Thank goodness for leases !!! Yipeeeeee!!!!!!

Best of luck with your new Pathfinder !!!!!!

winbro · August 2001

sorry to hear of your bad experiance w/gc. and hope the next SUV is trouble free. I just bought a liberty (1st time jeep owner) and hope that this new jeep is more reliable. so far I'm impressed. time will tell

anthony921 · August 2001

I hope so too....good luck with your Liberty !!!

broese · August 2001

Had my evaporator replaced at 50k miles. Shortly after that developed a leaking problem on the front passenger side. Found out the water from the drain hose was blowing back in. They fixed that problem, but now it is wet on the driver's side. Has anyone had similar problems?

livetodrive · August 2001

I just came back from a great time at the Jeep 101 Course. They lent me a JGC (they also had the Wrangler and Liberty to choose from) and with a Jeep representative riding shotgun, let me put it through its paces over an obstacle course. They had positive and reverse tilts, log and rock tracks, and my favorite, the Sky View. It consisted of climbing a steep incline in low gear until only the sky was visible, and then letting the engine hold the vehicle back as it crossed the peak into a valley below. It was a great demonstration of the JGC's capabilities beyond the local malls.

I asked the technical representative about the transfer case whine that has been reported on this board. He indicated the problem has been solved for the 2001 model year. He also said the rotor and disk problems date back to the elimination of asbestos brake pads.

Incidentally, with 13k+ miles on my 2001 JGC, it has yet to see the inside of the Jeep shop for any type of service. I put in Mobil 1 10W-30 myself. It's been great.

milous · August 2001

I've had my '01 JGCL about 5 months now and 4,000 miles. It's early on, but so far absolutely no problems. Fit and finish are perfect from "head-to-toe". Love the ride, the power, the stereo, the comfort and all the other nice features. Truly a fun vehicle to drive. I think Jeep reliability has improved considerably this past year...

lesliejoy · August 2001

Has anyone here purchased an extended warranty?

Thinking of getting a 5 year/100,000 mile warranty on my 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee Ltd (now at 43,000 miles).

Just had the air conditioner replaced ($1,200) and anticipating other things going wrong in the future if I want to keep it.

All responses and opinions welcome!

Thanks.

Jeep Grand Cherokee

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