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When did they make the last (Grand?) Wagoneer?
I saw one last night, and really, really like the styling. I also like the size and bulk and useful space.
What motors did these come with?
Thanks.
tidester
Host
SUVs
I really, really, really like these.
http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0202/15/b01-417056.htm
fastdriver
I will agree with tloke however and say that I have read a lot of different message boards, for the Explorer, MDX, Toyota, and the GM models during the past couple years , and there are plenty of problems and complaints about all of them. You can get a lemon from any manufacturer, or you can get something that ends up being trouble free.
All things taken into consideration, I'll gladly take my long-term chances on the Jeep, for in my opinion what it offers in features, convenience and style far outweigh any negatives.
So it really doesn't matter what you buy, you are either going to have problems or you are not. And I wouldn't base my final decision solely on what I read in all the different message posts, as there is just as much good as bad written about ALL of the SUV choices out there. It's best just to go out and test drive 4 or 5 different cars you are interested and pick the one you like the most based on style, ride comfort, features and so on. There were things I liked on the Explorer, the MDX, and the all of the new GM models. I went with the Jeep and am glad I did. Others will be happy with what they choose regardless of any problems encountered by others.
http://wagonmasters.com/
They appear to be very high dollar but the vehicles that I have seen at this dealer are looking almost new.
http://www.autosite.com/editoria/asmr/svolsu.asp
Only 492 sales out of over 275,000 SUV's sold in January. I guess when your a company where combined SUV sales still don't eqaul 1% of the market your only chance is cheap-shots.
Some of the Chicago-area Jeep dealers are advertising this weekend that they are selling new 2002 GC Laredo's and GC Limited's at $5,000 below invoice.
Is this a national incentive offering?? Anybody in other areas of the country seen this? Any catches to this deal?
Thanks...
The MDX scored a "below average" in CR's emergency handling test. Most SUV's score either "average" (ML320, RX300, Pathfinder, 4Runner) or "below average" (e.g. Explorer, Envoy, Jeep Grand Cherokee, and even the VSC-equipped Highlander). The X5 scores "above average," however. CR apparently will not recommend any SUV that scores "well below average" (the solid black dot), but will recommend an SUV if it scores "below average."
"With average stops from 60 of 132 feet, our drivers noticed a tendency for the rear end to step out slightly, causing the need for a bit of correction."
"When pushed to its cornering limits, though, the MDX fishtails easily, compromising its emergency handling. Electronic stability control would likely help."
"I've got a 2001 MDX and found the driver's seat very uncomfortable. That's because the side bolsters are very steep and very firm."
--- 1st visit: Reported a thud noise at only very slow speeds
--- 2nd visit: Thud noise still there
--- 3rd visit:
(Service: fixed steering problem, and rebalanced
wheels)
--- 4th visit: They had it for two days.
(Service: rotated tires and rebalance wheels)
"I felt like I was looking at the dash of the Odyssey (couldnt shake the feeling that I was driving a minivan on steroids)"
"road noise was louder than I expected"
"My MDX is about one and a half month new. I have been having problems in starting the engine at times"
There are some good things to say but Acura is behind the Jeep in many areas as you can clearly see. There's a reason the GC continues to be one of the top selling trucks in the USA.
Belive me, I have no axe to grind with you and I am sorry if I may have been somewhat harsh as the moderator of this forum has noted. For that I apologize. I do see why the Jeep Grand Cherokee's sell. First of all they look great, they ride nice, their V-8 has plenty of power. The 4wheel drive capabilities are stellar. If the problems I had with mine didn't happen I can tell you I would be praising this vehicle also. Aside from the quality issues it is a very nice truck. And I would agree with Edmund's asessment of the JGC that because of the quality control issues the vehicle could not be fully endorsed by them. Enjoy your ride!
C'mon this is a Jeep that people forget is a true off roader not a yuppie mobile such as Cadillac, Lincoln, Lexus, BMW or the other "SUV's" that have never seen dirt. You can't have it both ways - either off road capable or comfy ride.
Seats - I think the seats in my 98 ZJ are more comfortable than those in my daughters FZJ80 (Land Cruiser).
Yes, the rotors in JGC ZJs and WJs do warp and I can't understand why Chrysler doesn't spend the $10 a unit and upgrade them. The gas tank sending unit problem was a 97/early 98 problem and was covered under warranty. I do not know what you're referring to about transmission/rear diff problems. I frequent the Jeep board from another group in which the members go off road all the time such as the Rubicon Trail, Moab, etc, and they have never mentioned trans problems and seldom talk of rear diff difficulties. Of course there are some differentials blown and repaired due to severe off roading. (Everyone should look at TRUE off roading sites - you would think that Jeeps should not go "there" and I agree; you would have to see to believe. I've never seen a Caddy, Lincoln - or even Suburbans there). The 98 ZJs are very good vehicles, the newer 99WJs had some start up problems but now the 2000/1/2 are mostly doing well. "The noisy wheel gets the most grease" or the people with vehicle problems post the most because they feel "taken". In summary - JGCs shouldn't be singled out; if you are going to criticize one; criticize all.
The rotor problem that the Jeeps have had is really inexcusable as it has gone on for so many years. I, like so many others cannot begin to fathom why DC has not solved this problem once and for all. And yes, even the brand new 2002 Jeeps have the same old crappy rotors. Unbelievable, really. Rotors aside, though, the new 2001 and 2002 models have indeed come a long way from the horrors of the 1999 model year. Like Olizer, I have not heard of trans or rear end problems.
I recently spoke with a friend of mine who is the Service Manager at a major Ford dealer. I was telling him I got a new Jeep and joked about the fact that I would probably have to get the rotors replaced in a few months as it seemed to be a "Jeep problem". He said that no, it's not only Jeeps with cheap rotors, it's a lot of the SUVs out there that are using "car rotors" that were not designed for "trucks" and that I would not believe how many Explorer's come through his shop with the exact same problem - warped rotors. And yet, one hardly ever reads about rotor problems in anything but Jeeps.
Fanman8, apology accepted...
And Olizer, you are dead on here: "In summary - JGCs shouldn't be singled out; if you are going to criticize one; criticize all"!
C'mon lurkers - hint hint!
tidester
Host
SUVs
Well I think I will step back from the controversy here and just say that I am a very pleased 2002 JGC owner."
How can you comment on reliability? It is less than a year old. Come back in 2 or 3 years and tell us how reliable it is.
THAT is why the 1997, 1998, 1999 opinions are important here.
I wish Texas were a bit closer to Massachusetts.
I also wish Jeep would bring back that car.
I saw one once at the Cape with the fake woodgrain gone and real wood in it place put on with authentic brass screws! It was the coolest, classiest looking wagon/suv I have ever seen!
I went to the Jeep dealer to pull service records on the Jeep......none found, in other words it had never been in for service. I have had zero problems with it and it appears the previous owners had zero problems with it too. It currently has 57K on it and I plan on keeping it until it hits at least 150K.
I can't say for a minute that my Jeep isn't reliable, I love it. BTW, this is my second Jeep GC and its more reliable than my last one, although my 94 GC wasn't bad by any means, just a little leaky at times.
I've also gone through 3 sets of pads and s 2est of rotors in 28k. Similar problem on my '97 Suburban, although '00 Tahoe was OK. Seems the rotors are just to small/thin and get excessively hot. As posted earlier, if the mfg's. would just spent 10 bucks more when specing the part, they'd save a ton in warranty costs.
Otherwise, noisy, thirsty and rough riding, but goes anywhere and is the perfect size. Wouldn't buy another one, but not totally unhappy with the Jeep.
http://www.wjjeeps.com/crossrailcap.jpg
Tloke, you are right brake rotors are a problem with other auto manufacturers also. After some further research I am finding that poorly designed brake rotors (metal to thin) are warping and not just on Jeeps. I too beleive that it is inexcusable for Jeeps or any make for that matter to produce poor quality brake rotors year after year.
I can comment on reliability for several reasons - I also owned a 2001 Grand Cherokee, I have family members/relatives with 1990's Jeeps, I have friends who own 2000 model and older Jeeps, and I have read, for years, thousands of posts on different message boards...
"THAT is why the 1997, 1998, 1999 opinions are important here."
Yes, they are important, but moreso if you are buying a particular year of vehicle and are checking out that model year. BUT one cannot look at reliability results from a 1999 model for example and assume that later models will have the same problems. Just because 1999 Jeeps were problematic does not mean that there will be similar unreliability on every model after that. Some issues, like the brake rotors are carried over from year to year and have not been solved, but other than that MOST of the other 1999 and earlier Jeep problems have been eliminated making the newer Jeep models JUST AS RELIABLE as other top SUV's out there - that's my point.
Let me say this. I have talked to everyone including mechanics at various dealers that are close friends of mine. All vehicles have issues and for various reasons. I thought the GMC Envoy looked nice til a GM mechanic that works on them each day told me they were junk. The same I have heard of Explorers which I dare not even consider in the same class as a Jeep.
My sister owns a Cherokee and has had it for 3 years (its a 99) without any problems including brakes and has 49K on it. Odd ? Perhaps.
I spoke to a Jeep mechanic from a large local dealer who said - problems ??? sure, rotors and a/c before 1999.
My point ? Everyone has an opinion and all vehicles have issues. Jeep makes a good on road and off road product and I believe whole heartedly that in lieu of posting more, I will do and play off road.
I plan to check back over the next few years and will gladly report any problems I have.
Now for my one question - why the hell did they get rid of cross bars on the roof racks ???
I got a faring for the roof rack and will be driving from NJ to ME next week with it. We'll see if that helps my terrible mileage and/or the wind noise.
I have specific questions regarding the inspection and replacement of the front 4x4 bushings for my vehicle.
Please advise or contact me directly if you can help Ed I can also be reached at myersed@clas.net
1. The overall ride quality did not seem all that improved to me, but mainly because the seat was not very comfortable, too stiff. Going over bumps though was much quieter and softer than the '01 model.
2. I absolutely hated the tilt wheel mechanism. It's like the import models with the 2-step awkward process and stiff lever. This may seem a trivial complaint but if you are in and out of your vehicle 10 or 20 times a day it's real annoying. One of the reasons I decided against the Explorer. Clunky and un-intuitive to say the least.
3. The power seat controls are illogically located down near the floor, hard to reach and hard to operate. One of those quirks that you wonder how anyone could have been stupid enough to design. Didn't anyone at Ford ever sit in the car and ever try things out?
4. The overall lack of quality and thought for the interior. You can really tell Ford cut corners on the redesign. Too basic and cheap looking, too much plastic. No innovative conveniences. You can tell that “Cost reduction was Job # 1.
5. Blind spots from the "D" pillars, much wider than previous models.
6. Third row seat flaw. The hot new feature Ford bragged so much about. Nice idea, poor engineering. Amazingly, the seats do not fold flat. I couldn't believe it. They stick up several inches and cannot be pushed down all the way! One salesman told me that I could just remove the seat like in minivans. Yeah, right. I looked at several more and all were the same. What moron signed off on that? Even one of the brochure pictures showed the seats perfectly flat! Since I couldn't find a model w/o the 3rd seat I was quickly leaning away from the Explorer.
7. Tried to get used to the exterior looks and convince myself it was a nice looking vehicle. But too boxy and square. Ford did not put much time into the exterior design. One highlight though I did like was the rear cargo window/door design. Now that was creative! Nice low load level too.
8. I had no problem with headroom or legroom at my 5’11 height. Getting in was easier than on my ’97. One of the options I was waiting for was the V8 so I only drove the V6. which was too weak to my liking.
In summary of the Explorer, overall I kind of liked it but too many quirks and annoyances got in the way. The power seats, non-flat seats, cheap interior and tilt wheel did it in. Add to the fact that when I traded in my ’97 they really low-balled me saying that “Explorers are just too common”. That means the ‘02s will take a big hit too come trade-in time, especially since the model year is running 1-1/2 years. And, are the new models still prone to rollover problems??? I don't trust them. And I don't trust Ford products anymore. Jaques really messed things up and it will take Ford awhile to get out of their quality and design slump and build better vehicles. When they do, I might consider one again.
Now onto the Jeep. After I took one for a test drive I fell in love. Awesome and comfortable ride. All of the controls were easy to use and thoughtfully laid out. Creature comforts everywhere. You could tell that the people designing this vehicle were true enthusiasts and into what they were doing. Quality fit and finish throughout. The Infinity sound system is awesome for a factory system. Visibility is no problem at all. Longest drive so far about 6 hours and was perfect all the way. No discomfort at all. Cruised at 60-100 mph and it was smooth as silk. Tons of power with the V8. This was one of the nicest vehicles I had ever driven and I was sold. I’m not worried about any problems that might arise, as you see by all the posts here and on other boards every company has problems but the new Jeeps have come a long way. As fun and exciting as this vehicle is to drive, I’ll take my chances. Go out and drive a Jeep Limited or an Overland and see what you think.
Saw previous post of veteran discount. Also in local paper mention was made of 'up to $1000 loyalty discount' Would appreciate any info on these or other 'hidden' discounts.
Most important what do you think my differance cost would be to trade my 2000 for2002?
If you are looking at more of a people hauler, I would probably suggest waiting a month for the 03 Expedition for comparison. The pricing difference compared to the V8 explorers isn't signifcant, and you get a much larger, more comfortable vehicle.
I noticed you are in Atlanta. If you decide on the Jeep, I highly recommend Jasper Jeep in Jasper. They are the original one price dealer, no haggles, and no tricks in the business office (They won't even sell extended warranties or credit life insurance). Great people, worth the drive.
Greasykid: On the smart shopper board, there is a forum called "Real World Trade In Values". There are a few used car dealers who volunteer a lot of their time giving recent auction prices for trade values. Very helpful and often amusing advice. Suggest a re-post over there.
Brian
As for Jasper, I live SOUTH of the Airport, so Jasper was a little over an hour drive. Went on the recommendation of several friends, just to shut them up. I was extremely impressed. They were the #1 Jeep dealer in the country in the 70's and 80's, before Atlanta got so many Jeep dealers. You could probably save a few hundred dollars shopping their prices elsewhere, but they are the most laid back, no pressure (not low pressure but no pressure) guys in the business. Call ahead for an appointment if you're going on a Saturday, they're usually quite busy.
The trailblazers I've driven were akward for me to get into because they had weird running boards. It seems to sit alot higher than the Jeep, but doesn't gain any ground clearance so not sure what's going on there. Feel kinda "fat" handling/steering wise as well. Like the motor, but it's still doesn't have the V8 ring to it. I like the new Tahoe better than the trailblazer because I figure if somethings going to sit high and drive fat it might as well BE big.
Almost 30,000 miles... rotors, power window, fuel pump repair...not too bad, though I did have to replace the rotors myself since previous 5 star dealer & DC would not replace. DC never responded after dealer blew me off.
The '00 is still slightly better than the '99 I traded in on it. It needed 2 sets of rotors, 2 power window motors, rear end rebuilt due to whine, shift interlock replaced.
I may break down and buy an extension to the warranty up through 4 years/75000 miles. The trade-in value is about $3000 less that it was on the '99 when I traded it in on the '99 with about the same mileage. I guess the $2000 or more drop in price they had last year has really shafted folks who bought them before...also, all the incentives are dropping the value of trade-ins.
Regarding rollover risk. This is typically avoidance related, and driver activity. I have seen many vehicle rollovers as a medic and firefighter and few have been with JGC. Many Explorers, Toyota P/U's. Wranglers, Isuzu Rodeos and the usual small SUV's. This could be for many reasons including the skill and/or carefulness with which the driver operates. Trust me you can flip anything.
NY Paramedic
I do believe that Firestone tires were blowing, although I think alot had to do with the Explorers pitiful 26psi recommended tire pressure. I don't think a tire blowing out should cause a vehicle to flip unless the driver did something stupid. Not going to say it CAN'T happen, but I think a blown tire and whipping the steering would quickly turn things upside down. Car and Driver did a test where they completely deflated a tire at all different speeds and the Explorer never exhibited any strange handling characteristics. Of course they didn't do anything stupid like whip the steering around.
I can't figure out how or why they sell so many of the things as I think they are terrible.