Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

biker5 · February 2001

My opinion, $300.00 below MSRP is still too high. How about tell them $500.00 over invoice that's the deal....What dealership you are dealing with?

thor3 · February 2001

Don't use the "below" sticker method - use the "I'll pay you $xxx over your invoice.

To answer your question - NO $300 is peanuts but it all depends on your area and how other dealers are dealing... Each dealer has different allotments and some have more vehicles to get off lot or "want" to move quickly...

Shop around a bit... tell us where you are located and we'll help you find a good dealer.

For an example of a "Good Deal" take the end of year 2000 models that were liquidated a few months back... you could actually buy at or below invoice due to dealer holdback incentive from Mercedes. Now that we're in the middle of the production year and there is not much news on the upcoming 2002 ML's out yet the dealers are trying to ask for full sticker. Remember in a few months we'll all be talking about the new features on the 2002 models and dealers will be trying to unload the 2001 models. I think year end will prove to be a Very good deal for those who can wait. Of course, the new features on the upcoming 2002 model such as digital climate control.. minor facelift... and what ever else might tempt. one to wait even longer. Bottom line is that the leftover 2001's will be great deals at the end of the year so don't be disappointed if you see savings of $4000 on same vehicle you would purchase now without said discount... Food for thought, to get your negotiating skills going so you can get the price down now..."A well educated customer is our worst deal" - letting the dealers know "you know" there is a change in the ML coming soon for 2002. This might give them incentive to stop jerking you around and give a good price (what ever "good" means!).

After all is said and done it is all about how much time you have to deal with "shopping." If your a lawyer or doctor with each hour spent car hunting takes $$$$ out of your pocket then it is not worth the time shopping. The new Mercedes "same price" shopping has removed a bit of profit from the dealer anyway... so at any price up to sticker the dealer is not making a killing anyway... maybe $3000. This is split between dealer, sales person, floor planning....

Good luck and let us know where you are located so we can point you in "good dealer" direction.

Frank

swilsonator · February 2001

Picked up our new MY01 ML320 today. Requirements were pretty simple; a luxury mid-size SUV that wasn't EVERYWHERE, hopefully with 4WD/AWD and preferably more than 4000lbs towing capacity. We drove the Acura MDX, Yukon Denali, Infiniti QX4, and ML320/ML430.

Didn't even consider the RX300, there's way too many on the road. The X5 doesn't have enough cargo room. The Sequoia looks (IMO) like a slightly larger 4Runner, so it wasn't considered. QX4 had a very nice interior, but has small backseat room and seemingly small legroom in the front. There is no comparison between the MDX and the ML. The MDX has tons of cargo room and rides like a minivan, not a SUV (makes sense since it is built on the Odyssey platform). The interior is somewhat plain. Plus, there's nothing to break up the simplicity of the side exterior, all sheetmetal - inviting door dings. The Denali's engine was godlike (6.0liter - 320hp). It drove and handled great, its just too stinkin' big for our us and the dash is not impressive.

The ML is *really* safe, looks great(especially with added body-colored fender flares, less minivan-ish), and drives great. We are very happy and had a great dealer experience. I wish the ML430 didn't cost a lot more, because the NAV, engine and brakes would have been nice too. But the ML320 will do just fine, and I'll add 17" or 18" aftermarket wheels down the road.

Got the following options: Cypress Green, M1, Bose, Sunroof, Heated Seats, Hitch Kit, and Body-Colored Fender Flares. First pic is up at http://scott.wilson.org/ml320/

These and other info boards are great places to add to your buying research. Keep up the informative posts!

swilsonator

cadillaclovr1 · February 2001

If you have the money to spend on a M-B, consider the Cadillac Escalade. It's the most powerful SUV on the market now with 345hp and 8500lb towing cap. It's also every bit as luxurious as any other SUV out there. Just drive it to see.

tazzidevil1 · February 2001

How much did you pay??
Looking to get similar package in VA without giving my first born son...

mbml55amg · February 2001

Have any of the rest of you ML55 owners noted that the ML55 is listed @ 342 HP in most places, but is listed @ 346 HP in the specs listings found in our owners manuals? I realize it doesn't much matter, but I found it interesting. I have found the HP output to be satisfactory whatever it may actually be.

swilsonator · February 2001

As many people have mentioned, what you pay completely depends on your area, market/demand, dealer incentives/rebates, and dealer stock. I got $1500 off MSRP with little trouble. Remember, MB holdback is 3%, so at invoice the dealer still makes a profit but the salesguy gets squat. I typically buy all vehicles at a few hundred over invoice, but you must also factor in those things I mentioned above. If you have several dealers you are willing to work with in your area, you'll be better off.

Also, MB dealer installed options vary QUITE A BIT in terms of labor price between different dealers. The prices on MBUSA for those items doesn't include labor. Check around with different dealers and compare.

Although I didn't end up using them, offers from services such as LiquidPrice and Priceline immediately offered $1K-1.2K off. If you can wait till the 2002 line is almost ready to come out, you should be able to grab a MY01 at or near invoice, especially if there are manuf incentives.

Good luck...
swilsonator

bon2000 · February 2001

love the truck and good safe luck! It's a beauty and I love the fender flares.....enjoy.....bon

thor3 · February 2001

What part of VA are you in... if you are in Northern VA as I am. Deal with a MD dealer Euro MotorCars in Bethesda MD... We have purchased many Mercedes from a sales person Gil Hofheimer...he has been in the business a long time and has even been GM at two other local MB dealers - American Service Center and HBL in Tysons...

I can tell you he will take very good care of you and the distance is not bad at all going to Bethesda MD...I have personally worked at HBL in Tysons 8 years of my life and can tell you they are NOT the dealer to deal with.

Call Gil Hofheimer for the best price and service - you can call him at work at 301-215-5407 or his cell at 301-674-1566. He also has a web page if you care to visit mercedessales.com. He gives a lot back to the community and is a great person which makes the deal that much better.

Tell him you know Frank Gstrein through a Mercedes Forum.

He is excellent and I can't say that about most...

Let us know if you need any more help!

Frank

thor3 · February 2001

quip,

Nice pictures and neat guards... where can these Cobra products be purchased... do you know price on side running boards?

Thanks - Frank

armoredveh · February 2001

Don't listen to Frank - he doesn't know what he's talking about...call Gregg Eisenberg at EuroMotorcars instead (301-215-6061). :-) Seriously, I live closer to both HBL and ASC but go to Euro for everything. They have the absolute best customer service and are reportedly one of the top five MB dealers in the US. There's a reason for this.

I just bought my 01 ML430 Sport from Gregg several weeks ago (my third MB from Gregg and this dealership). While I'm sure I didn't dip into Euro's holdback, it was damn close.

Hope this helps. Regards, Bill Shaw

mlevinedc · February 2001

I had my '00 ML430 in for the "A" service at 12,700 miles. In addition to the usual servicing, I asked about the rear brakes squeaking, especially in reverse. I was told that the pads would be replaced under warranty and that this was a problem well known to MB. I asked about tire rotation and balancing and was told to wait for the brakes to be replaced as they would be removing the rear wheels at that time. So three weeks later the pads are in. I drive 65 miles to the dealer. The service manager tells me that they would replace the pads at no charge but balancing, tire rotation, and wheel alignment "beyond 12,000" miles is a "wear and tear" item and that will cost 150.00 Is he correct? Does MB have a different definition of "All maintenance included" than Audi? I have an '98 A6q that has had it's wheels balanced and rotated at every oil change and never a charge for alignment in 37,000 miles.

quip · February 2001

Frank,

Thanks. You can buy these at suvaccessories4less, currently it onsale for $575.00 and here is the link:

http://www.suvaccessories4less.com/stainsteelco1.html

Take care

Qui

planoml · February 2001

There is a lot of discussion on the new models, but does anyone know any detail. Will there be external design modifications? I'm getting ready to buy a MY2001, and don't want to have the entire design change. If that's the case, I'd rather wait. Thanks, in advance, for the feedback.

rover96 · February 2001

What exactly is auot leveling, I saw a level gage on my 98 head light housing (outboard side). Is this mean I can adjust it or ??? How?
TIA

dt77 · February 2001

That wouldn't be autoleveling.
That's just a leveling gauge to help you aim or level your headlights. Instructions on how to use the gauge should be in the manual.

Autoleveling usually only comes with Xenons where glare to drivers in front must be avoided. Sensors are placed on the rear axle which sense if the ML is level or not and adjusts the aim accordingly.

I know some who went of roading on some pretty bumpy roads with an X5 and everyone in the car felt sick cuz the xenons were just constantly autoleveling up and down ...barf

dt77

thor3 · February 2001

While there is still not any official information on the upcoming 2002 ML line. It is for certain that there will be some fairly substantial "amenities" upgrades... for example... Digital Climate control.. perhaps with 2 zones... xenon lights being available or standard without purchase of Sport Package... probably changes to incorporate steering wheel controls for radio, phone... as most all other of MB line has already...

Regarding the exterior change there have been a few pictures of minor bumper changes that may incorporate fog/driving lights in the bumper as the ML55 and sport editions have... but not the same bumper as the ML55 or Sport... BUT we really don't know yet.... there was one report that production at the Vance facility had been cut for 2001 production by a couple thousand units in preparation for major changes to the 2002 product line.

You can read into that statement in many ways... any different dash components to accommodate the climate control system could be considered major to some. So this does not mean that any additional cosmetic changes will occur... but we just don't have the facts yet!!

If you think you can hold off for a bit it would be to your best advantage for several reasons...1) Once any official info. is released on the 2002 changes this will automatically reduce interest in the 2001's making them "better deals" to get them out of the dealers inventory prior to new models. 2) Mercedes may help with this by giving a dealer incentive $$$$ to enable dealers to discount as in past year end sales (i. e. buying at or a bit below dealer invoice). 3) If you wait you can see the new 2002 ML and it's changes and determine if these really matter to you. 4) It is a given that all ML's will depreciate to some extent with any significant improvement of the ML such as Digital Climate control... so by waiting you can reduce your capital investment and take advantage of year end model closeout pricing reducing your imminent depreciation.

IF you wait you will have more info. to make a better educated and informed decision.

Good Luck - Frank

thor3 · February 2001

The next true generation of ML redesign from the ground up is not due until 2004/2005. So if this is the type of change you were inquiring about than "NO" 2002 ML's will not be based on a new platform.

However, as I stated above there may be more than one good reason to wait a bit. You might also find that a particular change for 2002 is really worth waiting for but won't have this option if you buy before you know more.

I can tell you from my personal experience - we purchase a 1999 ML430 which we love.. but!! in 2000 the interior was redesigned and included GPS..more trim appointments in line with a "high line" MB. Better sound deadening, additional side air bags for rear passengers.

My point is that there will be similar scenario with MY2002 and you might just be pissed that you did not wait if you really could have waited. Again, the pricing on MY2001 will be impacted by changes and you will serve your pocket book better to wait...

It has also been speculated that the MY2002 might incorporate side air bag head impact curtains... once again not confirmed but could be important to you and your family to wait and see.

See you - Frank

bcl1 · February 2001

Tis the season. Tax time that is.
FYI... Maybe this is old news, but any of you business owners who have purchased an ML can qualify for heavy vehicle depreciations. Because the "loaded" Gross Weight exceeds 6000 lbs., "6352 on the 430 to be exact" The depreciation at 100% business use is as much as $23,000.00 in the first year alone instead of $4,900.00 in 2001 for luxury-class autos.

Talk to your tax professionals
P.S. Those MDX owners are out of luck. Oh well!

drew_ · February 2001

Have been busy. Will finally be able to post more in this topic tonight and this weekend. The Friday's Freeways is starting in under an hour's time. Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/chat/freewaychat.html

Drew
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beetlebug62 · February 2001

<<#1722 of 1723 FYI - ML Tax Advantages by bcl1 Feb 16, 2001 (02:47 pm)
Tis the season. Tax time that is.
FYI... Maybe this is old news, but any of you business owners who have purchased an ML can qualify for heavy vehicle depreciations. Because the "loaded" Gross Weight exceeds 6000 lbs., "6352 on the 430 to be exact" The depreciation at 100% business use is as much as $23,000.00 in the first year alone instead of $4,900.00 in 2001 for luxury-class autos.

Talk to your tax professionals>>

...would anyone really want to depreciate at 100% business use in Year One?!? Doesn't your tax professional, advise you to depreciate at a rate based upon the useful life of the item? Otherwise, wouldn't you have to go thru the hassle of calculating the depreciation recapture, upon eventual disposal?

bcl1 · February 2001

Your right, more than likely you would only be able to write off 80 to 90% which is still 16M to 18M + the base 3M depreciation. Remember, this is just in year one. The balance of the depreciation is over the next 5 years. It would take you over 10 years to depreciate the luxury auto as much as the Heavy SUV in the first year alone. You only have to have more than 50% Business usage to use this method, and of course be willing to keep good logs. If you plan on keeping the vehicle for more than 5 years it may not make sense, but how many of us do. I am certainly not a tax advisor, I just thought it was a good piece of info worth sharing.

Good luck!

sshowitt · February 2001

I believe the alignment is free up to 12,000 miles, after that it is a cost to you. Seems like they could have let you passed by on this one as they had you wait the three weeks before scheduling your pad replacement. Either way, the tire rotation could have been done with no skin off their nose. On the positive side, you did get new pads which is considered a wear part and not normally replaced for free.

drew_ · February 2001

so to get the discussions moving again, what does everyone thing of my latest project? I think it compliments the chrome around the taillamps.

thor3 · February 2001

Is it tape or do you have a source for it? Specifically I'm speaking of the center license plate chrome cover strip.

Frank

drew_ · February 2001

Thanks, Frank. It's just chrome tape, but is supposed to be weather and heat resistant.

thor3 · February 2001

Did you remove the piece to apply tape or did you apply it carefully on the vehicle... if you did take off said part how did you do it?

Thanks - Frank

Not much going on the ML forum... we need some scoop on the 2002 Models to get things going again...I hope by the end of March we will have more "real" info!

dennett · February 2001

That really looks sharp. I've never heard of chrome tape, where do you get it? Costs? What widths is it available in? Also, I don't recall ever seeing the 4 Matic badging on the US model MLs, am I blind or is it a Canadian thing? It was fun hanging with you at Friday Freeway!

kenyee · February 2001

Drew:
I think that fluorescent red sticky will definitely get people to stop ;-)

Frank:
Don't think we'll know until late May. At least that's how it's been so far...

drew_ · February 2001

Originally I wanted to take off the entire rear hatch lever piece. Unfortunately, for the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to do it. Rather than risk damaging or misaligning the rear hatch mechanism, I just tried to place the tape on as carefully as I could and trim off the excess (I scratched the clear coat a little with the knife. Oops!!). It was a real PITA, and my thumb is sore from squeezing out all of the air bubbles.

This is actually my third and final attempt (I've run out of tape), and I still have a few small air bubbles here and there. In any case, I'll see how well it stays on and if not I'll just have to remove it and try again with tape that is less wide. The main problem is that the plastic trim piece is curved outwards and the tape, being metallic, does not like to bend. Dimensions are 52 cm, by 1.5 inches. If it doesn't work, I'll try 52cm X 3/4" tape the next time around, even though not all of the piece will be covered.

drew_ · February 2001

I could only find one variety in Canada. Your auto parts store may have different kinds. No, the "4-matic" badging is my little customisation :-) I was not an easy part to get, and I had to special order it for months (from Austria, where the E-class 4-matic is built) before it came.

The Friday Freeways chat was fun, as always! Will you be at the Town Hall chat brake chat on Tuesday, Feb 20th (5-6pm Pacific)? It's basically Fridays Freeways style, but no trivia! Maybe the MB owners can show up and take it over ;-) ;-) Shhh...

drew_ · February 2001

That fluorescent red thing hanging from the garage ceiling is for me to know when I've gone far enough (usually the ML is parked head first). Unlike you, I don't usually touch park :-) Actually, if the brushguard pushes the shelf in front, I know it's too far! The ParkZone device would probably get smooshed if I used it on this side of the garage.

I aligned the tag with the right edge of the left wiper blade so I can tell if there is enough room for me to get out of the cabin without problems. Since there is a support pillar in the middle of the garage, I then also know when there is enough room to open the front passenger door without having to fold in the mirrors :-) The ML's door rubstrips are used at least twice daily! An MDX could fit, but not easily (shelves on the left side); the lack of rubstrips or power folding mirrors would make it tricky to get in and out. It's rather amusing since a Ford Excursion could fit into the other (right) lot of my garage without any problems! There is far more than enough height, width and length.

drew_ · February 2001

WRT the reverse warning system, I would recommend the Poron USA 3 sensor system (www.poronusa.com) with the beeping (inside the car) & visual indicator. If it's too expensive, the 2 sensor system with the voice distance indicator is also another less expensive option. FYI, the 3 sensor system can also accomodate a splitter/sensor, bringing it up to 4 sensors altogether.

If a several people (in this topic or in Townhall) would like to do a group purchase, I'm sure Poron could knock down the price. Autotoys.com has excellent DIY instructions + pictures of the 2 sensor system on an ML. I referred to these directions extensively.

Picture of the Poron system installed on the ML:

This CBC Marketplace report was actually the main motivator for me to get the reverse warning system. Have a look at the video clip of the TV, if you have the time. It's quite interesting.

slee7 · February 2001

To all ML owners, should I buy a ML. I've also looked at the X5, MDX and RX300. I guess I'm worried about the quality issue as well as maintenance costs. Didn't really consider the ML, but with the sport package, it's worth another look. One more thing, should I pay sticker or is there room for negotiating?

drew_ · February 2001

It's more or less done, but collecting "dust" in a folder on my hard drive. I'll dig it up, revise some things, and post it when I have the time (soon hopefully!) :-)

drew_ · February 2001

One of our Australian ML owners hit a kangaroo at 110 km/hr! Fortunately, his brushguard (it was the smaller dealer installed accessory kind) saved his ML from extensive damage. Apparently he didn't even stop since there wasn't time.

WRT the Fresnel mirror, I placed mine in the same spot that David has his. Here's a picture:

drew_ · February 2001

Enough pictures of my cleaning products for now :-) I use a sheepskin wash mitt, and also a long handled soft wash brush. I don't use an exotic car wash soap...just RainX's car wash solution.

drew_ · February 2001

Congrats on your new truck! Hope to see you posting more in the near future! You may also want to introduce yourself in the "Meet the Members" topic in the M-class owner's club area. There is also a Photo Gallery topic where you can post a picture of your new ride.

drew_ · February 2001

You may want to check your MB warranty booklet for specifics of the light truck warranty/servicing. All of the details that you are looking for should be in there.

Drew
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ddykes1 · February 2001

Dan: I'm just back from Mexico and getting caught up on the old posts. Congratulations on the new (to you) truck! You will enjoy it and it is a much better vehicle than the 98 you had looked at earlier. Dave

sshowitt · February 2001

I would be interested in the unit, any idea of the pricing and how easy/difficult was the instalation. Also, what is the Fresnel mirror and what does it exactly do. Do you find it to be an asset when backing up? Where and how much is the unit purchased. BTW, I like the fourmatic
emblem on the trunk. I have been contemplating putting the V8 emblem on the c pillar, between the rear door and the rear side window, on both sides, don't know if it would look too ginchy though. Saw it on a clk and it looked quite sharp.
Took the ML430 up to VT this week, it performed marvelously, especially on the two lane roads going up the moutains. Not many passing zones, but when there were, no problem accelerating up and by the slower vehicles. The MCS worked great and was very helpful getting us around to our various destinations. I saw a few MLs,lots of Subarus and quite a few BMW SUVs, must be the chic skiers car of choice. Saw an Audi All-road, nice looking, and the new Volvo awd, looks somewhat odd. It has a stout rear profile with odd looking rear tail lights and protruding fender flares which makes the side view look very squat.
Very different than their other awd wagon.

drew_ · February 2001

See my post (link below) WRT the Poron USA reverse warning system. You can have a look at the instructions that autotoys.com has put up as well. It's actually not too difficult at all. Far easier than what I had to go through for the Parkpilot system.

The Fresnel mirror is a wide angle stick-on mirror. It really helps when backing up (into a parking space, or parallel parking) since you can see obstacles below the window line. Again, see my previous message for more info. Here are a few pictures though. I find that the reverse warning system and the Fresnel mirror both work well together. Whatever it below the range of the mirror, the sensors pick up.

Parallel parking

I wouldn't recommend the V8 logos on the C-pillar, but instead the front fenders on the area below the fender mounted signal lamps. I would align them up with the rubstrips on the doors. The reason why I like this area is because the MB Gelandewagen (G500 and G55 AMG) has have V8 badges there. I already have two "Elegance" badges on the very edge of my rubstrips, so adding another two badges would be overkill. But since you don't, I think the V8 badges would look good.

Drew
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ometofu · February 2001

Can you take a closer pictures of it. I bought the tape later last year and with the weather being so cold in New York, I never really had the chance to do.... PHAT!

ometofu · February 2001

skipped the church and done it!

target=_blank

Hope it will stay... :-) I'm happy now.

http://www.ometofu.com/ml.htm

drew_ · February 2001

Looks familiar :-) Good job! What procedure did you do for yours and which tape did you purchase? I had a problem with getting all of the air bubbles out. Did you?

Drew
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ometofu · February 2001

Drew, I had the tape (not sure the brand, I just picked it up in my local autoshop) for a while now... just lack of motivation for doing it. (if i had more energy, I would do the door handles too!!). I managed by got most of the bubble out after the a fourth attempt! (I had 8" by 12 foot" chrome strip!) In anycase, if anyone is attempting this, make sure you have pretty of Chrome strip, you need to learn the dynamics of the material and try not to touch the adhensive, especially on the edges. My first two attempted resulted from my fingers touching the adhensive making it (the edges) not as sticky as it should... On the third attempt, I learned that if I start in a center and with the help of the wet cloth, I can eliminate many bubbles... After I done with the third attempt, I realised that instead of cutting the excess chrome at the bottom, I can simply tuck it in and make it neater... so the forth attempt..... 20 minutes later.. I love the result. I also blow dried a bit to melt the adhensive a bit more uniformly. I then use a small needle to poke a hole on any remaining bubbles... The result is amazing from a foot away. I still prefer if someone would make a real chrome cover for it. But for now... I just love it......

Now.. can someone help me a occasional/practical wireless rear cam....

drew_ · February 2001

Thanks for the great info. I'll have to get more chrome tape before trying again. I also used a very small needle to puncture holes to deflate the air bubbles. Even if a company had made the handle for our N.American MLs, I'm not sure if I'd be willing to spend the $200 for it!

I did the door handles several months ago. So far they have stayed on just fine. I've noticed several ML owners (when they're waiting in traffic next to me) looking and pointing to the sides of my vehicle. Heh heh...

Drew
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dt77 · February 2001

great pics drew

4 matic is cool too ? ... was it expensive ?

ometofu, wow, u work quick. got that tape on just like that !, nice.

i was thining of smoking my tail lamps.

anyone done this ? there are spray paints out there that enable you to spray the outside. i think it might be illegal here in CA..hmmm...

it's also 'removable' but don't know the specifics on how it can be removed ..peel off ?

dt77

http://fullspeed.to/ml

rexconde1 · February 2001

Anyone have their CFA designation? Currently studying and have a couple questions.

Robert
rexconde@exconde.com

ml320hugomnj · February 2001

Has anyone installed a "real" brushguard on an ML; like something that will actually protect you if you hit a deer. The official gear is too low and narrow to make any difference.

Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

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