Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

drew_ · August 2001

Ten Phillips head screws for the grill, IIRC :-)

drew_ · August 2001

The brochures haven't always been the most accurate source of information as far as minor details go. There have been a few small mistakes in the past. FWIW, I have not seen any pictures which have the wood trim around the '02's rear window switches.

As for the wooden sliding cover for the new centre cupholder, it would've been a nice touch, but I was hardly surprised considering the price of the vehicle and the minor price increment for '02. MBzs that did have these covers were almost double the price, if not more (i.e. S-class).

Drew
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kenyee · August 2001

The 2000 model did have some changes because the front catchall mats did not fit very well since they were done for the 1998/1999 models, but the IIHS never retested, so I doubt they'll both retesting the 2002.
William, you should see the X5 pic Drew has where it rolled. Roof caved in on one side ;-)

sequoiasaurus · August 2001

Drew since you mentioned the CD changer..I'm curious to know b/c we ordered the Bose system on our 02 ML320 which comes with a 6 disc changer. Can you still add the in-dash single CD and use both changer and single or can you add the in-dash and only use one or the other. My wife really prefers the in-dash but we both wanted the upgraded sound system.

So I'm thinking that if I can add the in-dash that might make her happy. She likes the convenience of changing a disk when she wants to.

Believe it or not my salesman tried to tell me that the in-dash disk only came with the navi system but I showed him the brochure where is clearly states the option for the base system. He finally backed off

Thanks
Jack

pchiu · August 2001

To Drew:
Can you confirm that in the crash photos, the seats that hanging out is not the actual 3rd row seat, but the 2nd row seat ? My real concern is, what if, if my 2 kids were in the 3rd seats during the accident.

sequoiasaurus · August 2001

pchiu-
In the picture it looks like it is the 2nd row seats to me. Look at the bottom cushion..no split in it. Also look at the backs of them. They are not the same as the picture in post #4493.

Looks like it was a pretty bad hit to me.

wmquan · August 2001

Drew and Ken: Thanks. Interesting about the 2000 structural changes. I know MB hasn't asked IIHS for retest; could that be interpreted that MB doesn't think it would help with the test, otherwise they'd go through the trouble (expense?) of requesting another test? Doesn't seem to me that MB would easily give up safety bragging rights.

X5 roof cave-in? Ugh!

gustavm · August 2001

Re message #4507

<<Can you still add the in-dash single CD and use both changer and single or can you add the in-dash and only use one or the other.>>

sequoiasaurus,

My dealer also insisted that you could not have both. After analyzing the brochure and looking at the list of options on the website, it became clear that it is feasible. Another salesman at the dealership confirmed this.

One can have the 6-CD changer AND the in-dash CD player added as an option. However, once you have opted for the single in-dash, you cannot add the navigation system. Conversely, if you have the 6-CD changer and the NAV system, you CANNOT have the single in-dash CD player. You can however use the NAV system to listen to one CD at a time, assuming you are not using the NAV system, of course.

-- Gustav

drew_ · August 2001

Remember that the ''98 and '99 models had different looking 3rd row seats than the '00s. However, you are corrected, the salvage yard unbolted the right most rear seats and put them in the cargo area for some reason.

Yes, you can use both the in-dash CD player + the CD changer, at least for the '00s and '01s. It appears as a 7th disc, I believe. The GPS system has an in-dash CD reader for the map CDs, which is why you can't have both the in-dash CD player + the GPS module installed together.

proteus456 · August 2001

I have yet to see any pricing with the Nav system for the ML320. Is it a standard option now? If not, I'm hoping to use it to negotiate the price down..ie: I'll pay you MSRP Mr. Dealer, provided you throw in nav system + roof rack....

kenyee · August 2001

William:
I have no idea how they decide. I suspect if the IIHS finds a really crappy result, they would submit a new one; that seems like the pattern from all the crash reports this year. I suspect that MB thinks it is good enough. They're still in the top. What doesn't show up in their test is that MB put in some reinforcements in the 1999.5 model they tested based on a Euro test of a 1999 model, but that's just trivia ;-)
The caved in X5 roof illustrates how real-life isn't always the same as IIHS testing. That's why it was interesting to watch the ML real-life crash results for a few years (thanks to Drew's nearby junkyard ;-). I wish we had more MDX crashes...I'm still curious how well it does (though that guy on acuramdx hitting an 18 wheeler and totalling it seems to indicate it is fine).

Proteus:
The 2001 Nav was $1500. The one before that was $2K because 2001 added the GPS antenna as standard equipment. I suspect no change in pricing. Something is different w/ the MY2002 Nav though since the MY2001 Nav doesn't work in a MY2002...

drew_ · August 2001

If I was to speculate based on what I've seen, the 3rd row occupants might be injured in that accident, but they most likely wouldn't have been fatal injuries due to the way the frame buckled upward and redirected energy downwards as well. In cases of severe collisions, MB has said that the structure is designed not only to route crash energy through the vehicle, but also around the sides and the roof.

Drew
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rjlim · August 2001

Has anyone replaced their stock steering wheel, whether from ML320 or ML430 with the wood steering wheel by themself? Is it that hard? or the dealer has to install it?

fredtwd · August 2001

I got 2002 Accessory prices off the mbusa web site. It looks like the Navigation is $1,690.

To get to these prices you have to go to:

http://209.167.164.66/brand/container.jsp?/models/main.jsp&modelCode=ML320

And select 'Build Your Own'. After selecting colors and options, it brings

you to an accessory page.

Robert

wmquan · August 2001

On third row safety: I think the M-class in the photo did well. I think a really heavy hit is going to transfer some amount of force to third-row seat occupants, but realistically, the M-class is a mid-sized vehicle, not a bus. There isn't room to put a lot more structure behind the third-row.

Ken: Yep, IIHS doesn't predict roof cave-ins, just like the offset-front test won't predict side impact safety. All we have are the photos, good ones too.

But Ken, think about how you wrote "I wish we had more MDX crashes"! Just as we're about to go on a weekend trip over the mountain passes again ...

kenyee · August 2001

Have a safe trip. :-)

ometofu · August 2001

The picture of the crashed is defintely not the 3rd row seat. I have the 3rd row seat on my 99ML and it is just like the 00 version dudes.

sequoiasaurus · September 2001

Taken out the Fire/Rescue Convention in New Orleans last weekend. Look at those 0-50 times on the screen above the unit.

callahann · September 2001

I am sure others here will disagree with me on this, but my advice is don't waste your money on the nav system if it hasn't been improved since the '00 model. I have it in my 430 and am very disappointed in it's performance. If you are in a large metropolitan area, it's data base is good, but the routing sucks. You can't trust it for routing unless you already know how to get there, it will rarely take you on the best route. And if you are not in a large city, it's data base on points of interest, retaurants, etc is not good. I can go on and on about it's limitations, but will stop here. Go buy a Street Pilot or something like it if you want a good nav system.

I've said it here before, Mercedes should be ashamed of putting out a nav product as lame as what is in my '00 430. I'm not putting down my M class by saying this, because I love it, but the nav system leaves a lot to be desired.

adam86 · September 2001

Is it true that they are no longer making the sky view tops and option? I went the the MBUSA web site and under options for the 320 and 500, its not listed. Anybody heard anything?

sequoiasaurus · September 2001

Adam86: Skyview was elminated in '02 model year because it conflicted with the new roof mounted side curtain air bags. So the 2001 model year will be last for it unless they can come up with a different design.

sequoiasaurus · September 2001

Does anyone have any opinions on the Mercedes Benz Club of America? www.mbca.org

Are there any real benefits? What can I expect?

As a soon-to-be first-time MB owner I was just curious to know if I should join.

Jack

callahann · September 2001

Has everybody experienced rear brake pads being worn out at 25,000 miles? The dealer says this is typical for 98-00 M class'. The fronts on my '00 430 look like they will go another 30k or so, but the rear were gone. I have heard there was a change made on the 01 model that helped this. I wonder if this is a problem in the traction system or the ABS or if the rear are just undersized in comparison to the front? (I'll post this in the issues thread also.)

Also, I have had a bad auxiliary cooling fan, a bad brake light switch, a bad driver-side window switch, and two bad console covers (in addition to a bad fuel pump which I mentioned in a post a month or so ago). Anybody else have these problems?

Although these are minor problems, it takes time to get to the dealer and get them addressed. In each case, the dealer knew exactly what the problem was when I called to set up the appointment, so these must not be rare. I wonder what other nagging problems I might expect? I like the ML other than these problems and the nav system.

wniel · September 2001

I still have the original rear brakes on my 98 ML with 47,000 miles on them. Replaced the front at around 30,000.
Wally

johnnnyc · September 2001

Finally ended my car search today, plopping down a deposit on a 2002 ML320, Alabaster white with Java and M1,M2,M5,M7, heated seats, xenon, and the Bose system.

All the haggling I did at the three dealers I visited, I opted for the $43k quote I got from my local dealer (managed $500 less about 50 miles away from my house, but figured it wasn't worth the extra drive to service, and I like to service where I buy).

Also - my local dealer was very good - no tough sale, no harsh negotiations. Just a couple of volleys back and forth. Ended up going for $1800 under MSRP.

Only problem with the transaction - I have to wait until November to drive this puppy. It's being built in October (seen those MLB commercials yet, with the factory workers screwing up 'cuz they're watching baseball in October? Hope it's not that way in Alabama).

Quick questions for the group:

1) Best place to buy MB parts/add-ons online?

I found clairparts.com - anyplace better? I'm thinking front and rear bumper bars, and the passenger and cargo tray all weather mats.

2) Recommended leather treatment?

I usually use Lexol - anything better? I got Java, with a newborn on the way (I know; -idiot-). Couldn't resist it.

3) MB car seat.

Anyone have one? Truth be told, the safety of the MB killed my initial MDX desires. Although I thought the ride was superior in the MDX, I couldn't keep thinking about the lack of ESP, and the thought of my family swerving into oncoming traffic wasn't fun. I feel safer with them in a MB, several times over.

The car seat is my next target, *IF* it's worthwhile. Otherwise, maybe another LATCH/ISOFIX compliant seat.

Thanks to all who assisted in helping me make what I think and hope to be the right vehicle decision,

-John

mtsang · September 2001

Congrats on your ML!

Where did you ordered your ML? I live in NJ. The best offer I have so far is $1000 below MSRP. Hope you don't mind releasing your dealer info.

Thanks in advance.
Mike

52cars · September 2001

which dealership gave u the $1000 below MSRP. I am interesting in getting a 2002 ML320 too.

thanks.

michml320 · September 2001

Well I picked up my silver/black ML320 a few days ago. Got about 200 miles on it so far. I got the M1, M5, M7, heated seats, xenon headlamps, in dash CD, waiting for the DVD entertainment system which should be in next week. So far perfect, no problems and love the way it drives. My oldest son(6) sits in the third row and has been climbing in through the back which is the way he wants to do it. We put one seat down and leave one up. I have two baby seats in the middle row so it works better that way for now.
I have a few suggestions that will make this car much much better:
1)radio controls in the steering wheel. They are very cumbersome and small and not easy to use when driving.
2)compartment for sunglasses. There isn't much area to put it so I suggest offer a smoking package and in the place of the front ashtray, put the sunglass compartment there or if someone orders the smoking package, they can put the ashtray as it is now.
3)Put the controls for cruise control in the steering wheel. I'm trying to clean up the steering wheel area a bit as there are 3 control stalks that come out.
Well those are my takes on it. I would highly recommend an '02 and if the deal you are getting on an '01 isn't absolutely phenomenal, go for the '02. I'm sure in years to come it will be seen as a major overhaul year so may hold it's value slightly better? Who knows. It's all good just get one!

mikestaley · September 2001

Cool ride... I know the CFR motto...

Best pick for safety, for sure (ML)

Email me directly - I know Fire Rescue...

mchwe · September 2001

can anyone tell me about the 3rd row seat?

1. do they face forward or back?
2. do you get in from the tailgate or the rear doors?

3. how long does it take to deploy and stow them? is it easy to do?
4. can you deploy one at a time, and leave one up for the sake of extra storage?

thanks in advance!

sequoiasaurus · September 2001

Check out this link from the owner's gallery:
drew_ "MB M-Class Owners: Photo Gallery" May 30, 2001 2:31am

1. You face forward
2. You get in from the passenger side rear door.
3. If the 3rd row seats are already in place it takes about 30 seconds or less? maybe
4. Yes one at a time or both. Look at the pix's your self and you'll see.

mikestaley · September 2001

I've been away from "The Area" for a while, just two short years ago I was experiencing all your anguish, excitement, and anticipation.

Y2k ML 320 Silver/Charcoal M1, M2, B*se, tow hitch + a few extra add on's, blah, blah...

The bottom line, I Love my vehicle.

There are a few things to improve, I did not buy the navigation, (looking out the window seems a lot easier than learning another computer that has a history of failing)

The cruise control is great the best I've ever used, there is a learning curve.

I too wish the radio controls were in the steering wheel.

No fix for the 00 ML phone system for a national program type phone is my largest beef.

I switched to synthetic not only in the standard oil but the gear oil also.

Changed the air cleaner every 10K (inside @ 25K and it was filthy)

Installed the Nord-Leth bug deflector and if you have never used the window deflectors in any vehicle I suggest those also.

There are some great people in here that will help solve the few challenges we have with a human made vehicle.

Ride on!

Mike

Living in Central FL 20 miles in town - 21.5 - 23mpg @ 74mph AC on 1 center 11 o'clock.

31K to date running well

sequoiasaurus · September 2001

Check out this link from the owner's gallery:
drew_ "MB M-Class Owners: Photo Gallery" May 30, 2001 2:31am

1. You face forward
2. You get in from the passenger side rear door.
3. If the 3rd row seats are already in place it takes about 30 seconds or less? maybe
4. Yes one at a time or both. Look at the pix's your self and you'll see.

kwest1 · September 2001

The benefit of membership in the MBCA, to me, has been its publication, "The Star" magazine. I have found that this is the only magazine devoted to Mercedes (despite a large number of trade rags on Jaguar, BMW, Porsche, etc.). Also, you learn about the activities of the local club chapters, if you're so inclined to attend a MB event. Good luck deciding.

mchwe · September 2001

thanks, sequoiasaurus!

you would not believe how little info about these seats i could get from the local salesmen. the sad irony is that i live in tuscaloosa. the sales manager i spoke to could do nothing except show me one 2x2 inch picture of them in a brochure and sheepishly confess that "noone ever gets them."

this setup is inconvenient for me: two kids still in car seats. it means having to move a car seat every time someone sits in the very back.

oh, i wish that the mb minivan would hurry up!

michml320 · September 2001

I have two car seats also and I've put them on the window seat and middle seat in the second row. That leaves the last part of the second row room to move for access to the third row. Let's face it, a middle location for the car seat is much much safer than a window seat. Would you rather have your child in the middle or near the window during a side impact? I'll put mine in the middle thanks!

wmquan · September 2001

First of all, congratulations on your upcoming ML320! I'm glad you've reached a decision and did all your homework, and have selected a vehicle based on what best meets your needs and priorities.

A few items ...

1) Personally, I think the BabySmart seat is only necessary if you ever plan to have to drive with the baby in the front seat (since it deactivates the front airbag).

If the MB infant seat is based on the Britax's infant seat (Britax makes the seats while Siemens created the BabySmart technology), which it probably is, I think there are alternatives that are more convenient and as safe.

I think, personally, that you're better off with a good infant seat like the Graco Snugride DX5 or Century Advanta. I like dedicated infant seats because they're more convenient and built especially for infants. There are no dedicated infant seats that come with ISOFIX/LATCH, as far as I know.

When you baby grows, you can move to a seat like a Britax Roundabout or Advantage. Unfortunately, Britax's ISOFIX/LATCH seat is forward-facing only, so unless your baby stays in the infant seat the entire first year and up to its weight/height rating, you may be better off with the non-ISOFIX/LATCH seats.

Unfortunately, manufacturers are behind in ISOFIX/LATCH and I think that so long as you properly install your seat (and you can have it checked by a certified technician, depending on what resources your state has available), you may be better off with a more safe, conventional seat than an ISOFIX one.

Check out www.carseatdata.org for info on what seats fit and don't fit well into your vehicle.

2) You can easily protect your Java leather from your baby with that nice MB seat cover accessory. I'm not sure what colors it comes in, however. I know with our baby, as they get old enough to handle a bottle or sippy cup, you will inevitably end up with formula or milk stains on the back seat!

3) Lexol works great, I think you're quite fine with it. Heck, Drew and Ken use it, that's good enough for me

Again, congratulations on your pending ML320, and, more importantly, congratulations on your upcoming baby.

kenyee · September 2001

Actually, I used www.leatherique.com :-)
I've heard good stuff about Lexol too.

nothappyml · September 2001

We purchased a 2001 ML320E abt 7 days ago and we have been disappointed with it. Firstly, on delivery of the vehicle, we discovered several flaws. The stitching of the leather on the driver's seat came undone, there were paint flaws on the rear bumper, a torn handle(vinyl) of the rear door and several other blemishes that one would not expect of a MB vehicle. Just 2 days ago, the check engine light came on and with several other funky blinking lights on the dashboard. We called MB road assistance and they advise that we not drive the vehicle. Since it was the Labor long weekend, we were totally unamused and we were not able to contact the dealership until Tuesday. We want to know what some of you folks would do given our circumstances. We are very disappointed with the vehicle and have lost total confidence in it. AND its only been 7 days since we bought it. We feel that we should be given another ML to replace or perhaps have our C-class returned ( traded in) and have our money refunded. Or do you all feel confident enough to have the deficiencies repaired under warranty and keep this lemon of a ML. Its a stunning shame for Mercedes Benz. Would love to hear your opinions.

tracy_leb · September 2001

NothapplyML: My condolences. It really sucks to get a new toy and have any problems. Sadly it does happen. Relay to the dealer your feelings. Contact Mercedes USA directly by phone and also relay to them your feelings. Also, find out about your local lemon laws. This may be your only ultimate recourse.

This said, the ML is really a pretty good vehicle. My '00 had problems too, and still has a couple, but it's worth it overall. I am sure that the dealership will be able to resolve everything. If you spend hours reading this site, you will find that at least 99% of the other readers think so too. Remember that a ML is a vehicle made of thousands of parts, mostly by American hands. That it has some problems is less than the ideal reflection on our country, especially on Labor Day. Unfortunate but true problems are SOP.

psridhar1 · September 2001

I am considering buying an ML320 and I just took a look at the 02 at my dealer. I like most of the changes including the climate control, fog lamps, auto lights, auto up/down windows etc.
I also noticed the following changes from the 01 brochure:
MY02 MY01
- Overall Height: 71.7 69.9
(including roof-rails)
- overall length: 182.6 180.6
- curb weight: 4786 lb 4586 lb
- cargo vol: 34.7 40.4 cu.ft.
(second row seat in use)
- cargo vol: 81.2 81.2
(second row seat down)

- Fuel economy: 15/19 17/21
(from the sticker)

- Ground clearance: 8.7in 8.4in

I don't know where the increased weight is coming from but maybe it is dragging the fuel economy down?
The increased overall height of the truck might have come from the new wheels/tyres? But the specs do not indicate the step-in height in 02?
The front and rear legrooms are the same in the two models. But does the reduction in the cargo space come from the first-aid and the other kits located in the tailgate.
I have learned quite a bit from this forum and would appreciate comments from you folks to keep me in sync with what to expect of the MY02.
Thanks in advance.

bud789 · September 2001

Sorry you had problems. The the 2001 ML I purchased (9 months) has not experienced any problems except a stuck headrest in the back and a noisy fan. Both were promply fixed by the dealer. I am very happy with the vehicle and don't regret purchasing it. No other SUV in this class compares.

By the way the check engine light will come on if you don't tighten the gas cap or you put low grade gas in the tank. In any case, other than the possible engine problem, the other problems you describe will be fixed by the dealer. (Did you not look at the vehicle before you took delivery?) Even so, the problems you describe are not significant unless there are extensive engine problems.

sshowitt · September 2001

It sounds like you really did not go over the car upon delivery. One would not expect to have to do this with an MB, but it is always wise to do so. When we got our 00 ML430, I noticed that there was a cut in the dashboard and a few other interior mars and had them noted before we left the dealership. It was no problem for them to replace the dashboard and the other misc. problem.
If we had driven of, they could have easily and rightfully so blamed us for puncturing the dash and scratching the wood. It may have been done during prep, whatever. I do feel for your discontent. Hopefully your dealer will rectify the situation. I can not emphisize more, the importance of going over the car prior to taking it off the lot, outside in natural light, interior, exterior, glass and mirrors. Note to your salesperson any flaw or problem that you see. Just one additional thought, you still have leverage with the dealer as you will receive a questionaire from MB, a percentage of the dealer's profit on the car is based on this questionaire. If your dealer is a quality dealership, I am sure that your problems will be rectified immediately. Let us know how you make out.

xtski93 · September 2001

Never know when you should wear your seatbelt. http://www2.bostonherald.com/news/local_regional/ax09032001.htm

nothappyml · September 2001

Thanks for the replies. The flaws and imperfections were duly noted at time of delivery. The sales rep was fairly embarrased and was very cooperative in terms of getting things rectified. The check engine light came on just a few days after. Will check gas cap to see if may be the prob and its unlikely fuel as we use only premium unleaded. We understand that the problems are somewhat minor aside from the engine light thing-not sure of that yet but I guess its that we had expected a lot more from MB having own an MB before. We have a 2001 Cross Country Volvo as well and we absolutely have no trouble with it from delivery to now-8 mths ago. I guess we were comparing both the vehicles and I must admit, the Volvo XC beats the ML hands down in quality, comfort level and value for the money.

kenyee · September 2001

The TV news seemed obsessed w/ calling it a "Mercedes SUV" :-)
It is very rare that we get enough pictures of car crashes to guess what car it was. I frequently have to guess (yep, morbid curioisity :-) based on the alloy wheels. That's the only reason I mention this observation. The TV video showed at least 10 secs of the ML's front while it was on its side and while it was being pulled upright. You could clearly see it was a 1998 from the grey bumpers. The airbags went off. The roof was not crushed like you'd see w/ an Explorer. It looked like it was slid on both sides. I suspect it was still driveable.
ESP and curtain bags may have helped, but the stupid occupants would have just been bounced around inside because they didn't wear seatbelts...

gustavm · September 2001

<<Remember that a ML is a vehicle made of thousands of parts, mostly by American hands.>>

Actually, the ML's parts that make up the vehicle are all built in Germany. The Alabama plant only assembles the vehicle. I doubt that ANY part is made in the US.

nothappyml:

I looked at the Volvo as well, and I liked it very much. However, I didn't feel as safe, particularly because the Volvo is over 800 lb lighter than the ML. And, after reading the XC boards here, I opted for the ML.

I hope you will be able to get all your problems fixed by the dealer. You shouldn't have to go through that with any new vehicle, especially not one from MB. Good luck!

-- Gustav

drew_ · September 2001

Much of the ML's components are made by American suppliers. That's partly actually why the early MLs had problems. A lot of it had to do with local supplier issues + their quality control. It also had to do with MB's inexperience with them. I believe MB used to rely on their German parts suppliers for strict quality control. The American suppliers were not as good in this area and quality suffered. Luckily things have become much better in the last couple of years at least, as suppliers have been changed or quality + design drastically improved.

The ML's engine + drivetrain are fully built and assembled in Germany and shipped to the US though.

Drew
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skimmel · September 2001

You mentioned two car seats (in the middle and side). Are these toddler-seats? boosters? I've found that fitting two toddler seats next to each in other in most cars is difficult (the bases tend to sit over the seatbelt of the other). Haven't tried it (seen it) in an ML though.

gustavm · September 2001

Drew,

I had no idea that many of the components were supplied by US manufacturers. That's actually a little bit scary, particularly when one considers that DC plans to share components between ML and Jeep Grand Cherokee. It doesn't bode well for future MLs...

My understanding had been that parts were shipped from Germany and literally assembled out of the box. As you pointed out, no wonder the M-Class, at least at the beginning, had so many problems.

Let's hope that DC will have the good sense to not destroy MB's image by sharing the wrong parts with Chrysler. The last thing I want to be driving is a Chrysler with a German name...

-- Gustav

Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

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