Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

wmquan · October 2001

Regardless of what one thinks about rear side airbags, a child is safer in the center of the rear seat. It's simple physics.

LATCH is intended to ensure that installation is correct, and to provide convenience in easily removing/reinstallng the seat. However, a LATCH seat is no safer than a properly installed child seat. That said, some people show stats that 75% to 85% of car seats are installed incorrectly (though LATCH does not address all the issues in those percentages!).

So LATCH "is safer" for those who tend to mess up their seat installation. But heck, those folks should take a class in car seat installation (we did) and/or get a certified person to inspect the installation.

In fact, and this is just my opinion, based on the marketplace today, a LATCH seat for an infant may not be as safe as a properly installed conventional infant seat, regardless of where in the second row they are.

This is because there are relatively few LATCH seats available, while there are some excellent non-LATCH child seats that are probably better designed and safer than the models available with LATCH. This will change over time as more LATCH seats become available.

E.g. I'm not familiar with any LATCH, dedicated infant seats. You have to buy something like the Fisher-Price Safe Embrace II, which is a convertible seat (and Fisher-Price is getting out fo the car seat business at the end of this year). Many people feel that it's better to put an infant in a dedicated infant seat than a convertible because the sizing is more suited for the infant (strap spacing, strap width, etc.). Plus infant seats have the huge convenience of being able to remove the baby from the car without waking them.

Excellent, dedicated, non-LATCH infant car seats include the Graco Snugride DX5 and the Century Avanta SE. I believe the former was top-rated by Consumer Reports in their testing, with the Century placing second. Many people still think the best convertible seat is the Britax Roundabout/Advantage pair, which are also non-LATCH.

If an infant has to ride in an outboard position, I think he/she is okay with the rear side airbag because infant seats are like big buckets with the baby well-recessed in the seat, away from the airbag. In that case, the seat contacting the airbag is better than the seat contacting the door or window.

With rear side airbags, I have greater concerns about some convertible seats, and, especially, booster seats. But I'm still formulating a long-term opinion on them. The rear side airbags are fine as long as children don't lean against them (note that MB and NHTSA post warnings about the leaning). You figure that there'd be no warning if there wasn't at least some danger, though in this case it's just when a child leans against the door and falls asleep. However, children being children, it may not always be possible to prevent this.

A Britax Roundabout/Advantage has very deep bolsters that can offset any leaning danger, though. And instead of booster seats, there are newer, large 5-point harness seats coming out for youths.

Consumer Reports seems to think that rear side airbags can be dangerous to children, as their most recent review says they "don't recommend" the optional rear side airbags in the Audi A6 if you are carrying children. However, I think that this is a case of them throwing out the baby with the bathwater (if you'll pardon the expression) and that there are ways to minimize whatever danger may exist (e.g. use very deeply bolstered child seats).

Note that there are no NHTSA compiled reports on injury to children from rear side airbags! Of course, they're on relatively fewer vehicles. But the danger may be overstated.

So net-net, I'd recommend a non-LATCH, dedicated infant seat from one of the top models available, mounted in the center position. Assuming the baby outgrows the infant seat before he or she can be forward-facing, then a convertible seat like the Britax Advantage rear-facing, then to forward-facing (also non-LATCH). If the child doesn't outgrow the infant seat before going forward-facing, Britax has a good forward-facing only model that is LATCH (and also supports conventional installation). When the child outgrows that, I'd look hard at the Britax Super Elite instead of a booster.

Ultimately, it's up to the parent to decide what they are the most comfortable with.

spfotey · October 2001

basically, i have it scored this way.

X5 upside: Classy interior/exterior, fun to drive, ergonomically sound, with strong safety features and good service. Downside is price, utility, and reliability. I think 2002 will improve on reliability. (if i use 3rd row seat as qualifier this gets thrown out)

MDX upside: Smooth to drive, plenty of space, 3rd row option is nice, good safety reports, acceptable price, and assuming that reliability will be there with 2002 model. Downside is the interior quality (doesn't seem luxurious), overall sturdiness (not sure how it will last over time), and everytime i go to the acura building i feel like i am in a used car lot.

ML320: Solid feel, good in my occasional offroad usage, good use of space, high safety record, 5th year of the model so reliability has improved along with improvements such as rear A/C, and excellent service. Downside: Somewhat pricey, rides a little higher than i would like (tho i am used to it), reliability still has me nervous, and i'm a little bored with its looks (tho thats not a big deal)

I"ve added the Toy HL simply because my Previa was the best vehicle i have owned. I like its ergonomics, reliability, and simple layout. The downside is it doesn't have rear AC (and i promised that to my kids for the next car) and no 3rd row of seats.

so -- if space and money were not an issue, rather a fun SUV that meets 90% of my reqts, then the X5 wins. If money and space are the main priority (or the occasional 3rd row seat looms larger) then MDX wins. If it's price and reliability then it's Toyota HL. If i end up somewhere in between, then it's probably the ML, which is what i am driving today.

so, i have to organize my priorities, tho i keep hoping Nissan would come out with their new version and it would be exactly what i want.

still -- ihaven't yet driven the 2002 ML and maybe that will change my mind.

kenyee · October 2001

Nice reasoned comparison.
I wish more folks would do that when they proclaim that "xxx is the best"... :-)

johnnnyc · October 2001

in my book (I agree with Ken - no such thing as 'best car' - but 'best car for *me' is what you should be aiming for).

Then, the 2002 ML's hit the streets.

More luxurious interior. Minor fascia changes to the exterior helped the looks (although I must admit I wasn't a fan of either car's exterior). The revamped AC system included the rear seat climate control I so desperately wanted (and why I passed on the 01).

The 02's come with 17" wheels and a retuned suspension. I decided to go for a side-by-side test drive, and in my book, it was clear that the MDX couldn't keep up. To your point, I also felt the construction of the ML was more substantial.

Those flip-over tests that Drew has were proof positive that this is one tough truck. The fact that it keeps pace with cargo, despite being 6" shorter and 6" narrower also helped, considering in NYC space is always at a premium.

Reliability was my key concern - but from everyone I've spoken to, including some personal friends as well as internet resources - the reliability issues slowly crept away starting with 99.5. The people I know who have 00's and 01's (can you tell that NYC is MB land?) both have had nothing but smooth sailing, with the exception of one window switch (which was also changed in MY 02).

I liked your comparison though. I certainly couldn't get close to an X5, after seeing what they did to those people's homes. I'm sorry - BMW sent a very Ford-like message to the people who bought those cars. Rather than recall them all, they were [non-permissible content removed]-footing around the issue. Now, several garages later, it seems to be a bigger issue.

Thank *GOD* that nobody was seriously injured or killed in any of those burnings. My concentration on safety is what brought me to MB, and the last thing I'd want is for the car to defect and actually cause injury.

spfotey · October 2001

Johnny,

sounds like you could tell the difference between the 01 and 02 model? -- i definitely need to try it out. (i've postponed my decision until 02 models because they all needed reliability improvements)

i know that there is a substantial diff between 98 and 01 in terms of the smoothness of teh drive.

however, "best of" is left to each person. i have a friend who just bot an Acura TL and is so overwhelmed with it he wuoldn't even consider another vehicle. Probably he would head straight for the MDX if he goes into that market and wouldn't regret it either. thx for your feedback.

drew_ · October 2001

Re-tuned suspension for the '02s? I'm curious as to where you heard of this. I'm aware not aware of any changes in the suspension based upon the information that I have. It's probably the all-season tires that made the major difference.

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

johnnnyc · October 2001

who is an avid MB fan as well, the 02's sport different suspension parts. I'd have to ask him to elaborate, but it would make some sense that they'd change the shocks to correspond with the larger tire size.

He was the one that kept pushing me to wait for the 02's, saying that the changes went far beyond cosmetic, and would make the wait worthwhile.

drew_ · October 2001

The tire diameters are unchanged, only the rim sizes for the '02 ML320. The '02 ML320 still uses 255 mm width tires, and the ML500 275 mm width tires. People have gone up to 295 mm tires with aftermarket 20" wheels without having to make suspension changes.

gustavm · October 2001

"You mentioned that the ml320 blew away the X5 in all areas, except for man. trans. Could you be more specific?? I have narrowed my search to the ml, x5, or mdx -- all capable vehicles. My 98 ml320 has been a reliability disappointment but a sturdy vehicle otherwise."

spfotey:

Let me begin by saying that the X5 drove wonderfully and I almost considered getting it, but, after driving it, I preferred to wait for the '02 MLs.

It didn't make sense to me to get a pseudo-truck with the sticker price of the X5. As I said in my previous post, there is no area, IMHO, in which the X5 is better than the ML320, except that the X5 comes available in a standard transmission, which I would have preferred (if we were in Europe, I would have considered getting the ML 270).

One needs to have driven both to some extent to be able to understand, and perhaps then agree, with the following.

The ML feels sturdier (it is heavier) the moment you close the doors or the hatch, it has better maneuverability (shorter, narrower, smaller turning circle), better visibility (the X5 is terrible in this respect). The fact that BMW readily admits that the X5 was not designed to do off-roading is a substantial con against that car.

With the ML, I know that if I find myself in pretty bad weather (snow, downpour, bad Northeast winter), in a rough dirt road in the desert (New Mexico, Utah), etc., there is a pretty good chance that the car will get me through it, and that I am actually going to enjoy the ride. I simply would not want to ride the X5 under any of the above conditions.

The price of the X5 is in itself a good example of a luxury manufacturer inflating the value of the car to make it attractive to luxury buyers. The ML suffers to a lesser degree from that tendency. Considering the non-existent off-road handling of the X5, its sedan-sized cargo, its physical size, etc., it becomes as reasonable a purchase as buying $400 silk boxer shorts from Hermes. It is the "status" premium, as it were.

Don't get me wrong, though. The X5 drives great. It is, however, an oversized, overpriced luxury sedan. The ML320, on the other hand, offers reasonable off-road abilities, outstanding safety, fun driving, great cargo space, traditional MB luxury (at least the '02 models), for a price you'd expect from Mercedes.

I did not consider the MDX.

-- Gustav

ml320 · October 2001

lsweet28 wrote:

MBUSA (impressive safety feature presentation) and all the professional drivers were great. I'm sorry that hubby doesn't have enough legroom for the tank-like ML (I mean that in a good way). Had to order an X5 but our next car will be the CLK. I just gotta have a Mercedes!

Linda, the ML has more legroom than the X5. That's one of the first things I tried at the MB Powertrip. The X5 failed miserably, particularly in the rear. (I like to be chauffered at times,and am fairly tall.)

Wolfgang

kenyee · October 2001

"Probably he would head straight for the MDX if he goes into that market and wouldn't regret it either."

And that should be the final determinant of whether you are happy w/ your purchase. If you enjoy it and it meets *your* needs, who cares what anyone else thinks of it? It's fairly amusing sometimes when people get bent out of shape when someone says something bad about their purchase.. ;-)

neicey59 · October 2001

Thanks for clarifying that the only "lock trick" is the one in which the vehicle "self locks" if you don't enter after a minute or so after remotely unlocking.

In response to someone's question about previous luxury vehicles I have owned - yes, the vehicles self locked, and I reopened them using the remote opener upon re-entering the vehicles. This feature has spoiled me, because I never locked a vehicle when I walked away...the automatic locking feature took care of this for me.

Now I am driving a Mercedes, and have to lock my vehicle..oh well, it's a Mercedes, the benchmark of safety

Neicey

kenyee · October 2001

My 3rd party alarm on my ancient 1988 Integra also had this great feature.
When I first got the ML, I forgot about it a few times :-)
You'll remember to listen for the "kachunk" of all the locks going down as you lock the ML...

desertsilver · October 2001

Does anyone know if the cargo divider net(wire mesh)from 2001 would fit on a 2002? And if it is good for big dog? The divider sales for $150 at Clair. I am thinking to buy one for my big Old English Sheepdog. If someone has one on his 2002, would you please check the parts number for me, so I can order it directly from Clair. Or anyone has a better source for MB accesories?

Or, better yet, any great ideas on how to share ML320 with big shaggy dog?

Thanks!

lsweet28 · October 2001

I have found that specs for legroom are misleading. I don't recall how they compare for the ML and X5 but I can tell you that in the front my 6'4" husbands knees are 1/2" away from the dashboard no matter how he adjusts the seat. The X5 will be his first car ever where he will not have to drive with the seat as far back as it will go. I really love the ML but we already have a Lexus where his knees are perilously close to the dash-god forbid he's ever in a nasty accident with only 1/2" to spare.
I thought the ML had much better braking than the X5, for me they were close on handling. I know I'm opting for bad gas mileage, little cargo room (no kids) and no legendary service all at a premium price. All I can say is our next car will be the incredible CLK!

kenyee · October 2001

lsweet:
I found the X5 4.4's braking awesome at the X5 event. 117ft from 60mph. It's amazing for something this heavy. I think the ML500 is somewhere around 132 and the ML320 is around 138 (the ML500/ML55 have bigger brakes).

The ML has brake assist, so it helps you brake faster in emergencies to compensate for some of this difference.

birger · October 2001

Hi,

I also regret the disappearance of the ___////-roof on the newest edition of the ML. I had it on my first ML, and while the giant wind deflector did cause additional noise (at our speeds!), the cabrio feeling in summer certainly beat the ordinary sunroof.

It's strange, though, that MB "blaims" the introduction of the window bags for no longer offering this option. On its newest Golf-sized car, the Stilo, Fiat has an option called Skywindow:

This car also has window bags! So this is to me a little strange as a reason. I was in Italy this weekend and saw the Stilo "in the flesh", and the Skywindow is really something I'd have liked to have on the ML - it's just like the one formerly offered on the ML, except that the roof elements are glass and not steel. When closed, you can still enjoy the scenery - or close it out with the electrically operated sunshade.

Off topic: It's amazing what this car (the Stilo) offers - as options (or standard, depending on model and market) you can even have radar-controlled cruise control, like on the S-Class, in addition to a host of other things normally found on higher-class vehicles (xenon, parktronic etc.) Unfortunately the website www.fiatstilo.com is not very informative.

Birger (who's NOT about to sell the ML to buy a Stilo!)

gustavm · October 2001

Kenyee,

Take into account that the ML320 and ML500 are heavier than the X5s. Nonetheless, where did you get those numbers?

-- Alfredo

mark156 · October 2001

Hi Guys and Gals, I'm ready to buy my ML500. The Mercedes dealer initially offered $1,000 of the $52,615 MSRP. I'm checking at another dealer to see which will give the best price. I'm thinking I'll commit if they go $1,500 off. I'm sure there might be better deals to be had but I'm OK with this one for $1,500 off. I have to order because I want parktronic,M3,M5,M7,Xenon,Bose,etc with an arrival date of mid Nov.

Currently I'm trying to sell my '99 Jeep GC Ltd. I'd rather sell it myself than trade it if I can.

M.

drew_ · October 2001

FYI, you may only embed images in your messages if you own the copyright to the picture(s), or if the picture is public domain and not copyrighted. Otherwise, please utilise links to the images rather than embedding them.

Thanks,

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

kenyee · October 2001

The numbers were from various reviews in car magazines.

pinkston1 · October 2001

I have a 2000 ml 430 with 60k. I have been experiencing oil consumption problems with the vehicle, especially recently. I purchased the vehicle with 35k from a private seller in January 2001 and have been able to verify that the prior service was done at the recommended service intervals. I do a disproportionate amount of highway driving estimate: 85%/15% The vehicle oil light came on at 40k. I called Mercedes dealer who had done all of the previous service to inquire if there might be a problem. The service advisor advised me to add a quart and bring the vehicle in. After checking the service history the advisor seemed to be perplexed by the situation. He offered to place the vehicle in an oil consumption study that Mercedes was currently conducting and said at the next scheduled service they would change the oil to Mobil 1 synthetic. When I pressed the issue as to if he had seen other ML's with similar problems, he offered the information that Mercedes had been forced to address the consumption problem on the ML. He further stated that his dealership had even rebuilt and replaced some engines due to oil consumption.
I then had the ML serviced at 49K when the service indicator came on. The oil was changed to Mobil 1. Since then the oil light came on at approx 55k (-1.5L), 59.4K (-1.5L) & now at 60.5K (-1.0L). The dealer states that this consumption pattern is "within MB tolerances". I think this is absurd. I believe that the oil consumption is likely directly related to the fact that MB is pushing the oil change intervals way too long, probably corellated to the fact that they are paying the bill for the oil change under warranty. I have to question whether MB expects that most owners will trade vehicle before situation manifests itself or in my situation, the previous owner was leasing. I also find it interesting that MB issued a service bulletin in early 2001 advising dealers to switch to synthetic. I believe that this is clear evidence that MB has come to realize that they have overextended the oil change intervals, thus causing premature engine wear and oil consumption issues. However, at the dealership they aknowledge my belief that the oil consumption is a problem, but the dealer states that MB only considers oil consumption a problem if the vehicle is using more than 1L every 600 miles!, are you kidding? This is a $50K vehicle. Thankfully,the local dealer did note way back in March that I was expereincing oil consumption issues while the ML430 was still under warrantly. The latest time the indicator light came on, the dealer is now recommending that I have the oil changed again (even though my service indicator says the are still 4500 miles before service). The dealer say the want to better document the problem for MB. I feel there is sufficient evidence to demonstrate significant oil consumption. My opinion is that the damage has already been done and is not likely to be reversed. In fact, as you would expect, it appears to be getting worse. I have asked to speak with the regional MB rep to discuss the problem. My concern is that if I let the dealer continue to draw the situation out by putting new oil in the ML, MB will take position that it is a high-mileage situation that they should have been been alerted to sooner. I have owned several vehicles that I have driven to upwards of 175K, always changing the oil at NO MORE THAN 5K INTERVALS. Not surprisingly, this is the first oil usage issue I have ever had. The dealer answer to that statement is that those vehicles used oil as well, but I didn't notice it since I changed the oil so frequently. I feel like my inteligence is being challenged. I have never heard of any oil manufacturer suggesting going up to 16K between changes. As a sales rep I typically drive 30-40K each year. As such I pay particular attention to the fluid levels, even between services. My livlihood depends upon by thoroughness on maintenance issues. Let me know if anyone has had similar experiences and if anyone had MB rebuild or replace their engines as was reported to me.

drew_ · October 2001

"I believe that the oil consumption is likely directly related to the fact that MB is pushing the oil change intervals way too long, probably corellated to the fact that they are paying the bill for the oil change under warranty."

Pre-'00 MLs in the US did not have free scheduled maintenance. In Canada, oil changes are not free either, even for the '00 and newer models, so the above is not the case at all. Additionally, other manufacturers such as BMW also have a flexible oil change system which tailors the intervals based on the actual driving conditions of the vehicle.

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

drew_ · October 2001

Just a reminder that the MB chat is on tonight (6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/mercedeschat.html

lamken · October 2001

The rear air side bag is a concern if you have a child who is leaning on the door. Even restrained in a child sdafety seat my daughter's head can touches the door if she dose off. That is why I am keeping my 1999 ML. I have two daughter and one of them will have to sit next to a door.

Attach is a link regarding rear side airbag and children.

http://www.parentingplace.com/carsafety/Carsafety11.htm

gpvs · October 2001

So, what happens to children who sit there (assuming that middle seat is taken)when the vehicle gets hit on that side? Do you just risk having them hit the hard plastics, metals , etc of the door? Or would you risk the side airbags deploying and hurting them?

Hmmm...decisions.

lamken · October 2001

NHTSA is suppose to come up with proper testing of these side airbag using standard child dummies this year. Once they are deem safe I'll get the latest ML. For now the only thing I'll do is to make sure my kid is properly strap in their child seat. BMW is shipping the X5 with the rear side airbag deactivated, probably to avoid litigation. Yoy have to pay 750 canadian to have them activated and only after you have sign your life away.

drew_ · October 2001

The NHTSA has already tested the side impact airbags with child dummies, AFAIK. After their testing, they asked that any manufacturers, who have found that their side impact airbags do harm properly restrained children, to de-activate them. MB's position is that if the rear occupants children or adults alike, are properly restrained, that the side impact airbags are far more beneficial than the risks involved, and as such they refuse to de-activate any side airbags. As was mentioned above, if you do not have any side impact airbags, it is the hard door structure, even though it has some energy absorbing padding, that will make contact with the outboard passenger, rather than the airbag.

As the driver, you still do have the responsibility of making sure that any adults or kids are not falling asleep leaning against the doors. Instead, get them to lean towards the centre armrest instead. Personally, I have not found this to be an issue; hink of it like making sure that your passengers are properly buckled up.

Side curtain head protection airbags are not a problem since they deploy downwards from the headliner not so much outwards. They also extend down only about the window/door sill height.

As for the BMW X5, rear side impact airbags are optional. If you do order them, they come from the factory de-activated and you have to sign a document saying that you understand the risks involved with BMW's side airbags and that you cannot sue the company in the event of an injury. You do not have to pay $750 to activate the airbags, but you do (obviously) have to pay for the option.

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

gustavm · October 2001

"Accidental" deployment of the passenger-side airbag is a much more common occurrence, given the preponderance of non-lethal frontal collisions at low speeds. On the other hand, a lateral collision is by definition a more serious accident.

The distance between the door/glass and the child in a lateral collision is not going to decrease as much as in a frontal collision. Also, the frame of the child seat is going to provide great protection for the child, protection that a front passenger lacks.

Therefore, unless it is found otherwise, I think it is safer to leave your child IN a car seat with the side airbags activated. It is more likely that she'll be protected rather than hurt by them.

My two cents...

-- Gustav

gustavm · October 2001

"MB's position is that if the rear occupants children or adults alike, are properly restrained, that the side impact airbags are far more beneficial than the risks involved, and as such they refuse to de-activate any side airbags."

Drew, I think that MB's position also proves that they so trust the safety of their devices that, unlike BMW, they are willing to assume legal responsibility in case there is injury.

-- Gustav

kenyee · October 2001

pinkston1:
Believe it or not, that is the proper procedure. You dealer has to do the oil consumption documentation process before they can ask MB for an engine rebuild on your behalf.
I'd suggest talking to the regional rep w/ the info you have. That might speed the process up.
This is the first MY2K model I've heard of having it (previous ones were 1998/1999) and ML320s...
Where are you located? I'm curious if region has something to do w/ it...

drew_ · October 2001

For what it's worth, there have been no reported cases (worldwide) where adults or kids have been killed by side impact airbags.

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

pinkston1 · October 2001

Thanks Kenyee. Heavy drinker Ml 430 is located in Indiana. Interested in your thoughts on how environment could be a factor? I have no doubt that MB would require extraordinary evidence to document obvious problem. I agree with you that bringing all parties (Manufacturer, dealer, owner)together now to discuss is prudent idea.

johnnnyc · October 2001

the side airbags.

My position was the same that a few of you came to - namely, that a properly restrained child should not be harmed by the airbag.

The difference in deployment between the two airbags makes all the difference. In the case of the side airbag, you shouldn't make contact unless the side structure has been bent inwards, in which case you're better off being pushed by the airbag rather than the pillar.

My worry isn't really for now - I guess I'm looking too far into the future for my own good. My first child is due in January, and I can put him/her in the center.

As William mentioned, it's probably more prudent to put the kid in the center, and just put more emphasis on getting the car seat installed properly, rather than use the outboard LATCH connectors. I'd guess that those will come in handy in years to come, when the kid has moved on to the booster seat (unless there isn't a need for LATCH there, in which case I have a nice option which I just can't use).

Cheers to all for the great advice,
-John

johnnnyc · October 2001

installed, or was that someone else's picture I saw?

I'm using my spare time to get a list of things I'd like to install on my new ML, and the spoiler is on my maybe list. It looks nice from what I've seen, but it's always been a 45 degree shot from the side. I'd love to see what it looks like dead on, from the rear and the side.

Anyone have similar pics?

johnnnyc · October 2001

In no particular order:

Mudflaps - since it looks like those big tires can toss around some mud.

Sunroof wind deflector - keep the wind noise down.

Carrier racks - so I can add ye olde' luggage carrier.

Wooden shift knob - because I'm funny that way.

A-bar with skid plate - I'm thinking Manik, but I could go with the OEM as well. Any difference, in terms of size/finish? I'm thinking chrome to go with my white ML.

All-weather mats &
Cargo tray - from Weathertech - that big lip, combined with the fact that there are cutouts to accomodate the 3rd row seating, make this one a must for me.

Rear bumper bar - WAAG makes these, but sadly, only in a black or gray vinyl finish. Good protection for the bumper, but I don't know how great it'll look.

Ventvisors for the windows - never had 'em, but a friend swears by them - says they're all that's needed to open the windows in the rain. Again - contingent on looks.

Side-steps - again, maybe Manik, maybe OEM. I've read the OEM's are a bit more rugged, and are covered under the warranty (which, I'd extend, so I guess they'd be covered for 8 years?). I'd really like the running boards, but the price is a bit too rich for my blood. I'm not sure - how much do these help entry? Seeing as my wife and in-laws aren't very tall, this might help them get into the vehicle as well as help the appearance

That's it - I know it seems long, but I've also omitted some stuff (like the convex mirror as recommended by Ken - seems like a must).

Comments are welcome!

wmquan · October 2001

Excellent discussions and points of view, thank you. As I've said before, I'm still formulating a long-term opinion on this topic, and I think it's up to the individual parent to make the determination for their own case.

I think that the rear side airbags are safe for children so long as you can keep them from leaning against them (especially sleeping against them). That would be the parents' or caregiver's responsibility.

However, as mentioned previously, even a restrained child can still dip his/her head toward the airbag. Restraints do not pin their necks and heads into a fixed position, especially booster seats and child seats without a five-point harness. My son is too young to understand commands to adjust his head positioning, and he leans quite a bit.

What can help alleviate concerns is a very deeply bolstered seat, or rather, one with deep "side wings." The deep side wings will cradle the child's head and keep them from leaning against the side airbag. The side wings, which have hollow plastic and perhaps some padding, should substantially reduce any risk since they're between the airbag and the baby's head.

For convertible seats, to me there's no contest, Britax Roundabout or Britax Advantage are great seats, and they have deep side wings that cradle a dozing child's head:

http://www.childseat.com/enlarge.cfm?img=Burg_350.jpg

(My son's head is covered by the deepest part of the wing.)

For folks whose kids have outgrown convertible seats, I think a major key to alleviating rear side airbags concern (namely my own) could be in new "youth" seats as alternatives to booster seats. E.g. here's a "conventional" Britax booster, which is an excellent seat:

http://www.childseat.com/enlarge.cfm?img=E900416_lg.JPG

However, there is nothing to discourage the head from leaning against the rear side airbag if the child dozes off. The lap/shoulder belt will not do as much to restrain the child as a 5-point harness. Here is the "new" Britax Super Elite, which is a booster alternative:

http://www.childseat.com/enlarge.cfm?img=SuperEliteSapphire350.jpg

This new seat, still revving up into full production, is basically a giant forward-facing only toddler seat that goes to 80 lbs! I'm not sure if its side wings are deep enough to control a dozing kid's head movement, but I'm hoping it is (I will need to see one in person but it's not widely available yet). Plus it has a 5-point harness that may well keep a child more "tightly wrapped" than a booster-positioned lap/shoulder belt.

When my son outgrows his Roundabout I'm going to a Super Elite. Its main drawback, besides its typical high (but worth it) Britax price is that it is a very bulky seat and will take a good chunk of room in the backseat.

marylandml320 · October 2001

I agree with Drew, alot of the European manufacturers are recommending extended oil changes Porches, Mercedes, BMW, Volkswagon and Audi recommend 10-15k between oil changes. I have two friends with MB cars that have the FSS system and both have over 100,000 miles using 10k oil changes and no oil consumption. Since you did not purchase the vehicle new, you have no way of knowing how the previous owner treated the vehicle such as proper break-in of the motor for the first 1000 miles or how it was driven. Good Luck!

lamken · October 2001

Drew, your are right in stating NHTSA did tested the aibag (AFAIK about 11 rear side air bags including mercedes benz) and therefore came out with the warning. They are suppose to have a more detail test using standard dummies with different in and out of restraint position this year which should come out with a more definitive answer. That is the report I am waiting. My child is in a 5 point restraint and when she dose off her head is still very close to the door. I have look into all the Britax childseat that was mentioned in previous post but unfortunately most of them are not avilable or not approved for use in Canada which have a different child safety seat standards.

kenyee · October 2001

pinkston1:
Most of the cases I know of are in the Michigan area and one in the MA/VT area. They are usually rather high mileage.
I've heard of no cases in the southern CA area, so I'm thinking it may be weather related.
Plus, synth oil is not required in Canadian dealerships, only in US ones...
Thanks for the data point. How much mileage is on your ML430?

wmquan · October 2001

How old is your older child and how much does she weigh?

Interesting that some of the Britax seats aren't available in Canada; can you get the Roundabout or the equivalent of it there? I can understand the Super Elite not being available yet because it isn't truly available in the U.S. either -- Britax made some, then had manufacturing "capacity" issues and suspended production until "sometime in the fall."

The reason I'm surprised that you can't get some of the Britax's in Canada is that the Britax seats are originally designed for the European market, then modified exported to other parts of the world. There should be no technical problem getting them to adhere to Canadian standards. Strange. I wonder if it's just Britax not making the effort for the Canadian market.

gustavm · October 2001

marylandml320,

Could you define "proper break-in of the motor for the first 1000 miles"...?

I did not find any advice or guidance in the owner's manual on how to "break-in" the engine in general. Does anybody have any advice, or links, regarding this topic?

-- Gustav

gpvs · October 2001

I think the black ML with the rear spoiler was from jaime(biker5).

gustavm · October 2001

Lamken,

It is the responsibility of a parent that children (particularly those below 12) be properly seated in the car (i.e., in a child seat, a booster, or whatever the case might be) and, in my opinion, it borders on the criminal to not protect one's children by properly restraining them in a car.

As I have explained in earlier messages, whatever concerns I may have that the side airbags might injure my children are small compared to the protection I think they afford them.

My 28 lb, 22-month old sits in a Britax Freeway Plus on the outer seat whereas my five-day old sits in the middle in an Evenflow infant-seat (although so far she's only traveled home from the hospital) that we are replacing with a Britax Roundabout.

This arrangement leaves enough space for an adult (usually my wife) to sit comfortably on the other outer seat.

-- Gustav

johnnnyc · October 2001

the tool used to make oil changes easier by pumping the oil out the dipstick.. it's on sale this week at BoatUS - for $29.99 and free shipping (although they say that's today only).

Figured I'd share that - since a lot of MB sites that have maintenance tips refer to the Topsider by name as the oil change tool of choice. I picked one up myself, I couldn't resist

eplish · October 2001

Gustav, others...

Not sure what model year you have, but, any concerns about the center arm-rest folding down during impact and causing injury to a rear-facing child? This wasn't a concern on my '99 ML320, but it is on my new '02 ML500.

I've not seen much discussion on this topic anywhere including auto safety sites. Any comments or suggestions?

drew_ · October 2001

Hmm, the centre armrest mechanism is pretty solid and it's held in place quite firmly. You can't exactly throw it down with a flick. With a child seat in place over top of the armrest, I highly doubt that it is an issue, especially considering all of the testing that MB typically does.

marylandml320 · October 2001

Not sure if it is printed in the owners manual, but for the first 1000 miles they recommend that you drive at varying speeds, no full throttle acceleration from moving speeds or from a standing start, and no long constant speed (cruise control) highway driving to name a few...

drew_ · October 2001

have to be broken in too, so try to avoid sudden panic stops if you can. Take it easy on them and don't ride the breaks. There will probably be a funny burning smell for the first couple of hundred kms or so.

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards

sequoiasaurus · October 2001

Thanks John. I bought one just last week for 39.99. Oh well. Haven't used it yet but plan to on both my Sequoia and new ML.

Thanks anyway.

Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles