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Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier

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Comments

  • gustavmgustavm Member Posts: 43
    johnnnyc,

    I am paying about $108/month for my '02 ML320. I was quoted $130 for the Volvo T5 and about $145 for the X5 by the same insurer prior to buying the ML320.

    I forgot to ask my dealer to enable the DRLs at delivery time, but, since I am about to add the skid plate and the rear wing, I'll ask them to enable them then.

    Speaking of accessories and options, does anybody know if the dealer can also install the trip computer and the power folding mirrors (i.e., if one didn't opt to buy them as options at the time of sale?).

    -- Gustav
  • gustavmgustavm Member Posts: 43
    Lamken,

    "Until we have proper testing you can only guess that the benefit of rear side airbag outweights the risk. At one point car maker claim the benefit of front airbag outweigths the risk until people get killed."

    The difference between a front and a side airbag is that a child in a front seat doesn't have anything between her and the airbag.

    I am guessing, indeed, but I would qualify my guessing as educated. After all, we are talking about elementary physics. In the case of a side impact, regardless of the speed at which the airbag deploys, its impact on a child's body will be less than that of the metal parts crumpling from the impact. Additionally, the frame of the child seat is likely to take much of the impact if the airbag deploys in a mild side collision.

    As for the center armrest debate, we are talking about simply physics as well which make it a moot point. It would be simply impossible for the armrest to squish the carseat. The worst it could do is push it forward, but then that would mean that the seatbelt was not functioning properly. The question becomes then, do you trust MB's seat belts?

    -- Gustav
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Please, no soliciting on Town Hall. Try eBay.

    Steve
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  • kiiwiikiiwii Member Posts: 318
    2000 ML320 ~13000 miles

    Here are the things got fixed...

    1. Replaced lower part of the dashboard, passenger side. I found the thing was missing a screw. Took to the shop. Turned out it was "deformed," according to the service advisor

    2. Glove Box hinge was broken. I couldn't close it. Had that replaced.

    3. Bubble arm rest. Replaced.

    4. Replace roof lining. ML is still in the shop. Took it to dealer on Wed. They said it won't be done until Mon.
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    the way I look at the difference between those airbags is by momentum.

    Look at the example of a head on collision, with a child sitting in the front seat (I know, never never never - but we're talking hypothetical here).

    By virtue of momentum, you're traveling forward at the same speed the car is. The airbag itself is moving with considerable force and speed, in the *OPPOSITE* direction.

    That - combined with the fact that momentum has you leaning *into* the direction of the airbag during deployment, can cause serious injury.

    In a side impact you're moving away from the airbag. The airbag is still moving towards you - but I wonder if you're sitting close enough in most instances for the airbag to actually come in contact with you, unless the side of the vehicle is pushed inwards. If it is pushed inwards - then which would you rather have hit you - an airbag, or mangled vehicle?
  • ml320ml320 Member Posts: 22
    Drew,

    do you remember which oil and which viscosity is used by dealers in your country, e.g. Toronto region?

    Wolfgang
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    We don't have the MBUSA synthetic-only policy here in Canada. AFAIK, most dealers here use Mobil (?) 5W40 mineral oil, except in the AMG cars where Mobil 115W50 is used, at least for Vancouver. It is quite likely that 0W40 is used in the colder parts of the country, such as Newfoundland and the Yukon Territories (you won't see many MBzs there, that's for sure).
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Regarding the DRLs, for '02, the DRLs for the ML are low beams only for both the halogen and Xenon-equipped MLs. In Canada, all MBzs have used low beam headlamps (regardless of Xenon or not) for the DRLs. Interestingly, Audis use a combination of the side marker lamps and the foglamps. Bimmers use reduced intensity high beams, just as Acura and Honda.


    Drew
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  • ml320ml320 Member Posts: 22
    Thank you.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Not rugged enough for those places, eh? My minivan did fine in the Yukon and Newfoundland (d, r & g).

    I must admit I didn't attempt the northern part of the Canol "Road" or that road south of Grand Falls/Windsor to Red Indian Lake.
    :-)

    Steve
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    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

  • gustavmgustavm Member Posts: 43
    johnnnyc,

    Good point about momentum. Additionally, a baby would have the added protection of the car seat frame...

    -- Gustav
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Yeah, in the summer ;-p
  • rajesh_pappurajesh_pappu Member Posts: 13
    I had presented the oil consumption problem with my ML 320 on this forum about a month ago. To refresh, the engine needs an oil change every 2500 miles. I bought the ML preowned at about 44K miles (have 50k miles now) and need oil changes at 47 and 49 K miles.

    Took it to the dealership. They performed an Oil consumption test and then rebuilt the engine (under factory warranty cost MB $8,000). I talked to the technician and this is what he had to say. The 98 and 99 ML models have this problem. Apparently MB uses the same engine as is used in E class cars leading to accelerated wear of pistons and rings in the engine. He said that since then, MB has changed the design of these parts and the problems will not be seen in 01 and 02 models. Since the same parts as are used in 01 and 02 models used on my engine, he said that I should not have this problem anymore.

    I am writing this in response to a post by pinkston1.
  • tangjtangj Member Posts: 4
    bob259, thanks for the link, i bought 10 qts from them, free shipping order thru the Internet, i intend to use 0w40 for the NY winter and the 15w50 for the NY summer......
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Hey Guys, It's official, I ordered my 2002 ML500 (Desert Silver/Java) today. It will be built early December and delivered mid December. Can't wait to join you guys as an ML owner!

    Mark
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • sxsahasxsaha Member Posts: 15
    I wanted to know if I am getting a good deal. I am getting deal of $40,000.00 for Ml320 in metallic silver with M1,M5,heated seats and the sound system. I hope to receive some pointers regarding if I am doing ok or now given the situation with economy and the sept 11 incidents.

    Thanks in advance
  • howvoodhowvood Member Posts: 19
    Prior to receiving the update from Daimler-Chrysler regarding the use of synthetic oil, I had changed the oil in my ml320 to Mobil 1 10/30. When I rec'd the notice and saw that 10/30 was not included on the list, I called the Mercedes 800 number and asked a technical person if I should change it to a listed weight and was told not to. He said that any weight of any of the listed brands was fine and the only reason those weights were listed was because they were available to the dealer in bulk. As a point of interest, I have used 15/50 Mobil 1 in my 240d and have started it in sub-zero temps. It has a pour point of about -65 F. There are two different theories about oil weights, one is that lighter oil flows better and helps in cooling and the other is that heavier oils have a greater film strength so are a better lubricant. I think it could be argued either way.
  • ml320ml320 Member Posts: 22
    98/99 MLs use low tension rings, which reduce friction and fuel consumption. As a side effect it can increase blow-by, when used with thin oils. MB started recommending 0W-30 and 5W-30 in Dec 98, but rescinded that recommendation in Jan 01, probably because they had seen a number of damaged engines. Regardless of what your favorite oil is, I'd use at least 40 weight in engines with low tension rings/blow-by.

    Wolfgang
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    is just an indicator of when the oil doesn't pour AT ALL.

    A pour point of -65 degrees F means that at -70 degrees F, the oil shows no movement whatsoever - it's effectively frozen over.

    While you'll still be able to pour at that point - what will the viscosity of this oil be?

    I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it - manufacturers suggest oil viscosities because they've tested their engines, and find the best performance within those ranges. That being said - they're coming up with worst case scenarios in some ways.

    0W is not going to be useful to those living in Arizona. Plain and simple. Yet the average M-class owner is who exactly? Is it the guy living in Florida, or the one cranking over in -35 degree weather in Minnesota?

    It's some composite user - attempting to target 75% of the user community in one shot, which means that 25% will fall outside the range. So here, you can use some discretion.

    Logic used to dictate that because polymers need to be added to oil in order to create the large viscosity spread, that oils with larger spreads could cause more harm than good, causing deposits as a result of damage to the polymers during stress.

    But with oil manufacturers saying that they use less polymer chains to achieve the same range (Mobil 1 being an example of such), is it still the case?

    Here's my approach - some will like it, some won't - I follow it:

    I change oils with the seasons. I live in NYC - so it's possible that I might not drive 7500 miles in a year (if traffic continues to be this bad, maybe not in two ;). Three times a year, dependent on the weather at the time and how it's going to change (cold to warmer, warm to hot, hot to cooler), I go either 15W-30 or 5W-30 (this is on my Chevy Blazer, rec. 5W-30 weight). Mobil 1 doesn't make a 15W-30; I have to go Redline once a year.

    To each his own; figure out what your temperature range is, then try to preserve the oil viscosity range dependent on your environment. Don't sweat the 0W if you're going to be desert running. If you're in Minnesota - don't skimp and go 10W-40 - find the 0W. The worst damage done to your engine is done during that short period that you're car's not warm, the oil's all in the pan, and you're turning over a cold engine. If you're in a cold climate, then however light the oil can be is going to help it get up into the engine chambers ASAP, and minimize that damage.

    Change oils often enough, and flash point damage and acid buildups won't be that much of an issue with modern oils.

    My $0.02
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    Anyone here have the engine heater installed?

    I don't think I'll buy it - but I don't even know what it costs, and how it's activated.

    I've heard people say that the best thing to do for your engine, in cold climates, is to run the heater block for a couple of minutes. Then - the engine turns right over, and you get heat faster in the interior to boot.

    Anyone here that can corroborate/testify for the MB's heater block?
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    down a few hundred bucks.

    You didn't mention color (which, if metallic, would drive up the price another $495), but..

    The invoice price of your configuration was $38,836 (with dest. charge included). You mentioned $40k (does this include anything else, or just vehicle + dest?). That's a spread of $1164. I got one for $1000 over invoice right before the attacks, and I'd have to assume things are tighter now. I'd try to squeeze another $500 out of him, whether in terms of less price or a free accessory or two.

    Keep in mind - this is regionally dependent too. Here in the Northeast, prices are a little higher. In CA, I hear people are buying them at invoice. Guess it pays to live on the left coast ;)

    Good luck!
  • roger23roger23 Member Posts: 48
    Drew, regarding the ML factory rear roof mounted spoiler, I had one installed on my 2002 ML500 sport, and it does not interfere with my GPS antenna, as I have the NAV system installed. However, since it is heavy, and to ensure that it does stay in place, the spoiler is held on firmly by completely hidden screws (supplied by MB with a template for mounting).
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    FWIW, I've started my ML in -8F weather in the Boston area w/o problems.
    How much colder does it get in NYC?
  • desertsilverdesertsilver Member Posts: 11
    Thank you Bob, Drew, John and many of you for so much useful information! I'll
    check with Park Motors for 0W-40 and www.xpel.com for the 3M film. Actually,
    the part I want to protect is the top of my rear bumper. My big, clumsy OES
    will easily scratch the top paint, why not MB put some rubber trim there?!

    Anyway, some new questions. Does anyone notice that there are two recessed
    round buttons under center arm rest cover? If you open the upper tray, look
    the inside of the cover, the two black buttons are there. Quarter size, but
    I don't really think they are for coin storage. What are they? For what? Any
    ideas?

    Now it is the oil again. As I said before, I tried to mix 5W and 10W 30 oil mix before winter change and I did notice some difference, do you guys think, or have any information about mixing oil? I assume it is doable, since Mobil specifically mentioned its synthetic oil is compatible with conventional oil. I understand that statement as Mobil 1 can mixed with conventional oil, so it would be safe and sound to mix different synthetic oils. The question would be if 25% 0W and %75 15W weight oil would really do protection for engine in winter time?

    Sxsaha, as John said, the price was inline but could knock down a little bit more. I got mine (almost identical configuration) $250 below $40k. She is made in Sep and bought her home Sep 29th. Good luck and I can tell you I enjoy every minute I spent in this baby!
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    but the viscosity will be different.

    The idea behind using multi-grade oil is to provide a variable spread in viscosity grade of the oil over a certain temperature range.

    A 0W oil will be pretty thin at -8F, noticeably so than a 15W oil. Will it make a difference? Maybe not - but if a manufacturer said to use 0W - then whatever difference exists is desired.

    Let me qualify my earlier statements by saying that the concepts behind oil and lubrication are *intense*. Lots of engineering goes into the entire subject - from how our cars keep themselves lubricated, how the oil is circulated and cleaned, and how the oil itself is created. There are many different kinds of viscosity to be considered as well (the viscosity index refers to the maximum range, while pumping and starting viscosities are also of interest).

    Mixing of oils does *not* - even when doing so with oil from the same manufacturer - present an oil 'somewhere in between'. Equal quantities of 0W and 10W don't exactly yield 5W. Will you harm your engine if you mix? No. Will you get the desired viscosity? No.

    I follow my general engineering rule of thumb - when in doubt, or if debate is required, follow the manual. If everyone's in agreement, then follow consensus - but if a manufacturer says to do something, and there are 100 different opinions either for or against, I'd rather follow the people who built the car.
  • suvlvrsuvlvr Member Posts: 7
    Hi all,
    I finally went and did it. I got a 2001 Azure Blue 320 with everything except the sports package and the halogen for $543 under factory invoice. Don't know if this is the best deal but I've been grinning from ear to ear since... and if I keep glowing like this folk will think I'm radioactive or something....

    Thanks again for all the support and advice I received from this board.

    SuvLvr (still grinning)
  • desertsilverdesertsilver Member Posts: 11
    Thanks John for the debate. I understand what you said that 0 and 10 won't average to 5 in oil weight. And as a matter of fact, I remmeber I read an artical on this and the weight relation by all means is not liner. My thinking for mixing 0 weight oil is to make oil more "movable" during cold start.

    Frankly speaking, it is really hard to use only one kind of oil during an entire year, following 10K mile change interval recommand by MB. I am in St. Louis. The weather here can be quite hot in the summer and quite cold in the winter. And I am not planing to drive ML more than two FSS cycles in a year. The good news is that we'll have a free oil chnage every year from dealers to leverage.
  • neicey59neicey59 Member Posts: 47
    Thanks for your analysis regarding my purchase of a ML Here is my tempered rebuttal:

    I don't really care how it or any other vehicle looks underneath...it's the drive that concerns me. I didn't spend $35,800 (no where near what you thought I spent) to lay on the garage floor and look at engine components.

    Although I have always driven Honda Accords - my husband has always driven MB products (he currently owns a 96 SL600 convertable, and a 2000 E sedan. We also owned a MB wagon when the kids were younger, and recently purchased the C320 for our son (obviously no buyer's remorse).

    What I do find remorseful is a product, any product which doesn't deliver the quality that is expected of it. I don't care if it's a .75 coke, if it lacks carbonation, you don't have a carbonated drink. Since my ML lacks quality - I don't feel I have a quality vehicle. As for your comment regarding projecting a image - The only person I try to impress is God.

    For those of you who offered your ssistance....thank you. The Service Manager drove the vehicle and stated some suspension adjustments are warranted. He also noticed the Driver's window switch was sluggish (I hadn't noticed), the air conditioning was too loud (again, I hadn't noticed) and was shocked to see the vehicle had been serviced for legitimate problems 11 times since June.

    The have not promised me when my vehicle will be returned; however, they have stated when returned it will be "bug/problem free".

    Neicey
  • armoredveharmoredveh Member Posts: 13
    All, I am selling a MB roof rack (never used), a set of MB all-weather mats (new) and a MB cargo trunk organizer (slightly used) for the ML. I'm looking for $150 plus shipping for all of the above. If interested, please contact me directly at armoredveh@aol.com. FWIW, I live in the Wash, DC area.
  • neicey59neicey59 Member Posts: 47
    No need to apologize, I can feel your affection for this beautiful, but somewhat troubled vehicle. My husband is a Engineer who also tends to look at the nuts, bolts, lines and mechanics of just about everything in sight.

    I wish you much continued success with your ML.

    Neicey
  • cdiccdic Member Posts: 36
    I was not aware there was an option for a rear spoiler for the ML with that little antenna in the back. All the after market ones seem to exclude models with tel-aid or nav. At least there wasn't one available when I picked up my 2001 ML430 last Dec. I had one on the Toyota before and it worked fairly well. Unfortunately, you have to 'build your own' from the MB web-site to even see that one is available for new models. There is no mention of these type accessories in the "collection" section of the MB site. Does this new one work well enough to justify the $500 cost? Can it go on earlier models?

    Roger - What do you mean by 'heavy'? Did you install it yourself? Have you had it long enough to evaluate it?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    steve_ Oct 12, 2001 8:43am

    Steve
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  • desertsilverdesertsilver Member Posts: 11
    Neicey,

    I still believe I owe you an apology. I shouldn’t judge other people’s choice and feeling based on my own like or dislike. I have to withdraw the two messages I posted in Townhall related to your ML. Otherwise they would just make me feel bad and shame, please pardon me on this. I do wish MB could resolve your concerns and address your satisfaction and make you a satisfied customer. I wish you’ll enjoy your new vehicle or whatever you choose to drive. And again, best regards.
  • thor8thor8 Member Posts: 303
    I think Neicey would enjoy better one of those car based SUVs (SAV), like the RX300 or MDX.
    I do not comprehend how a dealer can say he will adjust the suspension when there is nothing to adjust, about the only factory vehicle that I know off with an adjustable suspension is the Porsche GT2 at 186,000$ for track conditions.

    Not to change subject, but if anyone wonders about the strength of the ML430, the other nigth a big U Haul truck, loaded, backed into a ditch from a driveway, completely blocking the road, they already tried with a pick up with several people jumping up and down on the bed to no avail, I agreed to give them a pull and we secured the chain to my hitch ball, I selected low range and first gear, it pulled the big truck with ease.
    Afterwards everybody was grinning including the cop that was directing the traffic.
  • roger23roger23 Member Posts: 48
    My MB dealer installed it, with the kit supplied by MB. I like the appearance,as it seems to dilute the "minivanish" look of the rear of the ml. AFAIK, it can be installed on all ml models from 1998 on. In terms of function i.e. reducing dust or rain/water spray, I have not yet evaluated it in those terms, but thus far, absolutely no regrets.
  • kenyeekenyee Member Posts: 738
    Thanks for giving them a good impression of the ML...maybe they'll think twice before calling the owners stuffy poseurs now ;-)
  • desertsilverdesertsilver Member Posts: 11
    Wow! Thor8, what a great achievement! That I believe is the big U in SUV. Thanks for a great demo of our MLs(well, might not be true good for my 320 though :-()
  • neicey59neicey59 Member Posts: 47
    Drew,

    Sorry it took a few days for me to respond to the questions in your post regarding the rocking action of my ML. Yes, I have indeed driven another ML, and absolutely loved the feel (it was a 2002) there was no rocking, and the drive seemed smoother, and very malleable during turns. I then drove a 2000 ML for about 20 miles or so, and it felt nothing like my truck!

    The Service Manager agrees my ML has had more than it's share of problems. Since he is a ML owner and of course analyzes them daily - he is going to keep my vehicle, and personally drive it for the next week. I have taken MOST of the advice of the participants in this forum, and even printed the hesitation related thread for the Service Manager.

    I was going to use the hubby's SL as a loaner until my truck came back, and the Service Advisor told me to absolutely stay away from that vehicle...he stated it would only make me challenge the handling of the ML even more -
    so far my truck has had the following repairs:

    Front passenger window insulation reglued
    Front Driver window insulation reglued
    Back passenger window reglued
    6 CD changer replaced
    console replaced (bubbling)
    Rear wiper motor replaced
    passenger seat decking replaced (literally split)
    Sunroof seals replaced
    fan relay replaced
    ETS/cruise control repaired/replaced

    These repairs DO NOT take into account the air conditioning fan/blower or driver's side window (switch or motor not determined yet) that are to be repaired this week.

    Neicey

    ps: thanks for always taking a moment to care
  • neicey59neicey59 Member Posts: 47
    Tires: I have the Dunlops, is that good or bad?

    Glue: Yes, I live in a very warm climate (Florida)which is probably why the MB mechanics can fix insulation glue problems in a jiffy (lots of practice due to climate)

    Neicey
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    Anyone switch to these types of air filters?

    I've been thinking about what I could do to enhance the vehicle mechanically - and I'm not coming up with a lot of answers that are affordable. I know I could tinker with the exhaust - but I don't feel like dishing out the $2k associated with that.

    Any ideas? Anyone used this air filter? I'm sure it won't get much, but anything is something.
  • a32a32 Member Posts: 6
    Where should I post this question. Is this location OK ? Is there a specific forum for technical questions ?

    Thanks
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Sure, this place is just fine. Ask away.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Not necessary. The air filter box is the same one as the ML55's so it's already a over-engineered for the smaller engines (than the 5.5L V8). Also, according to MB engineers, it lets in more air at the expense of more dirt than the factory approved filter.


    Drew
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  • grohsgrohs Member Posts: 8
    Would any one know if a 265-70-16 LT snow/ice tire have the clearance needed for a 2000 ML#320? If it does, would the larger diameter have an effect of the ESP or any other system?

    Are there steel rims available, I've checked with the dealer and they do not sell one. Or if I could find used factory alum rims in Canada, what would be a fair price to pay?

    thanks.......brian
  • grohsgrohs Member Posts: 8
    John, I have used K&N on several vehicles, and bikes.
    On the cars and trucks, no noticeable gain in performance, but a throatier sound even with a stock air box. Unless you have a megga motor that needs the volume you probably won't see a difference. I have noticed a fine dusty film in the air box in the area past the filter, obviously not as good as a stock filter in filtration. I have never had engine problems because of a K&N, but have never kept a vehicle long enough to find out.

    On bikes, the Japanese bikes show considerable improvement in power, but the Harley I had didn't. The Japanese being a high revving engine could have had something to do with it...............brian
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    if it's not filtering as well, then it's no good.

    High-flow filters are not supposed to be high-pass filters.
  • howvoodhowvood Member Posts: 19
    I used 245/70 X 16 snows last winter and the diameter is very close to original. I put them on zero mile, take-off rims that I bought on e-bay for about $300.
  • mckaypemckaype Member Posts: 5
    JohnnyC Message 5222:
    I had the block heater installed by my dealer in Anchorage. Price was $180.00. The installation was outstanding. It's neat and tidy and the cord is protected by an aluminum sleeve tape (where it passes by the radiator and is tie wrapped to the cooler hoses) and by a nylon loom where it comes through to the front. The cord tucks behind the license plate. The heater is the circulating coolant style heater (which in my opinion is better than freeze plug style). I don't know how many watts the heater is.
    The block heater is essential for us as we do not have a garage. I have a timer that turns on the outlet supplying the block heater on an hour or two before departure.
    I swear by block heaters. It's so nice to have instant heat.
  • johnnnycjohnnnyc Member Posts: 166
    but I ran into the 17" rim change in the 02 ML320.

    All I keep coming across is spare 16" rims.

    If I do find a set of 17's, I plan on doing the same. I hear that winter tires do not have a subsitute.
  • drew_drew_ Member Posts: 3,382
    Why wait for 17" rims? You'll have a much wider of selection of winter tires if you purchase the 16" rims, which will fit your ML320, BTW. It (16" rims) won't work with the '00-'01 ML430 or the ML500 since they have slightly larger brakes than the ML320 to deal with the higher curb weight. Wolfgang's page has an excellent overview of the available tires:

    http://www.whnet.com/4x4/shoptalk.html#wintertires


    Drew
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