BMW X5

bertram60 · October 2002

and a friend who was working there. 3k miles on it, 4.4 with sport, 19" wheels, activity....can't remember what other packages. Definitely not loaded out, but after a lot (I mean a LOT) of haggling i think I got a good deal. Bought the truck last September, think the invoice was $54k and paid $50k for it on a three year lease at about 3.5 APR. Payments are $689/month total.

I called my friend to see what they had in stock and said I wanted no BS, I had calculated all the numbers and new that I was close, but if they were willing to meet my numbers we'd have a deal. "No problem, c'mon down." Nine, count 'em, NINE hours later I drove home in the pouring rain in my new/used X. No gas, found all sorts of little trim pieces missing the next day, one wheel had been damaged while they were cleaning up the truck, all in all not a good experience, but to some extent you get what you pay for....The manager tried at least three to four times to change numbers, use a higher APR on the lease and BS me. At one point all I wanted to do was sign the papers, take my old car (2000 A8) and go home for the night and come back the next day to get my new truck.

Kinda took the shine right off the apple.

All in all it's been a pretty good truck. The '03's have a lot more of the features that I thought I should have had on my '01. 23,000 miles later I still enjoy driving it, but as my mileage is getting so high I'll probably dump it early (I'll calculate the earliest i can get out whole and trade it). I've been thinking about a 4.6, but we'll see. I miss my Audi, probably the BEST high performance sedan on the market. New body in '04 for both X and A8 make it a tough decision.

Long and the short.... there are (were) deals to be had, but be prepared to pay in other ways.

stever · October 2002

ouch, 9 hours? Try a Blast Fax next time!

Steve, Host

raybear · October 2002

Blast email, it works better these days.

hogdog · October 2002

I'm ordering an X5 3.0 within the next few days and am loathe to get an automatic transmission, after owning a 528 5-speed and a 540 6-speed. However, I haven't read or heard great things about the X5 manual transmission. Any informed opinions would be greatly appreciated. Please post a reply or e-mail me directly at ted@chom.com. Many thanks in advance; this is important to me.

stever · October 2002

There's actually a follow-up to the Blast Fax article:

Online Car Buying Revisited.

Steve, Host

donelonpc · October 2002

I will be in the minority here. But, I will be taking my X5 offroad. Yes, it does happen. I have already pulled trailors with it, drove through hay fields, etc... But, this upcoming fall I will have to back down gravel boat ramps and drive a farm road made of dirt (mud when it rains).

I have been happy with the traction so for and will be putting my 17" rims and tires back on for snow and mud. The all season Michelans are on the rims that came stock with the car. I am seekin any input on driver's experience on muddy roads with the 17" all season tires. Has anyone upgraded to more aggresive tread, and if so, did they find it helpful. Also, any other off road experiences would be helpful so I can appreciate the X5's ability. Keep in mind, I do no rock climbing, just driving across farm fields, dirt/mud roads.

The 4x4 system on these things are pretty sharp, and I hope the technology will make up for the lack of aggresive tread.

stever · October 2002

Not a complimentary article, but it may be of interest.

Steve, Host

woodyww · October 2002

I'm going to look at a 2001 5sp., 9K mi, premium package, 5 sp. manual, silver/black leather, no heated seats, private owner is asking $37.5K. Frankly I'd rather get one with all the toys, but the price on this seems pretty good--any advice?

Thanks!

greenlatern · October 2002

Besides the usual stuff like checking the service records just take it for a drive. Take it 10-15 mph through a bumpy parking lot w/ the radio off, windows down and listen for any noises underneath. Turn the steering wheel full in each direction, listen for anything outside or inside. Up/down each window individually, see if you hear anything. The good news: if there's anything wrong it's still under warranty for a couple more years. Also the maintenance plan is still in effect.

It's a manual -- I hope you really, really love manuals 'cuz the biggest problem w/ the X5 manual is 1st is too short and 5th doesn't go far enough. 5th in the manual is equivalent to 4th in the auto so you'll rev much higher on the highway. From what I've read elsewhere manuals seem to go thru more oil than the autos. Hope this helps.

razorweb · October 2002

I am in the NY area, and want a Titanium Silver X5 with premium package, xenon, auto trans, and lumbar. i got a price of 2500 OVER invoice (44,880) and was wondering what you all thought of that. Can i bring them down? anyone have experiences on long island with prices lower than 2500 over invoice?

Thanks!

dzuba · October 2002

Hope this question does not cause to much bantering. I am considering either a 530, or 3.0 X5 (both CPO)- in everyone's opinion does the X5 offer much more than the 530 than AWD and sitting higher in the vehicle? Living near Chicago the AWD may be a benefit, but after growing up here, I am not concerned about the RWD 530 in snow. Maybe it is just a preference thing. And finally - does anyone really need the 4.4 - I am thinking not me!!

greenlatern · October 2002

You hit the big points, sitting high + AWD. While the X5 does have pretty poor cargo space compared to most SUVs, being able to fold down the back seats and get something "big" back there does have it's advantages. Like the time I had to bring home a couple new desk chairs (fit easily), or when I wanted to drop my mountain bike off at the shop. And while I don't do any hardcore offroading the clearance is adequate for the fire roads I've taken to get back to fishing hole(s).

Do you need a 4.4i -- depends. The 3.0 doesn't disappoint, but with a full load of heavy people and the A/C on you can feel it struggle somewhat where a 4.4 would never break stride. If it's mostly 1 person commuting the 3.0i is fine.

rickrover · October 2002

I leased my 3.0 automatic, premium package, climate package, Xenon X5 about a year and a half ago - no problems. I was thinking of a 530 wagon instead but got the X5 and couldn't be happier with it. The 3.0 has plenty of power and decent gas mileage - I've never been in a situation where I thought I needed more power. I don't use it for towing anything. As for the limited rear load space you always read about. I don't think it's a problem at all. The rear cargo area is fine 99% of the time and if more cargo room is needed the seats fold 60/40 for a huge load space. I love my X - I plan to buy it after the lease.

As for a 5 speed manual X - I thought about one but am glad I went with BMW's excellent steptronic automatic. You can get good deals on used manual X's because no one wants them - next to impossible to sell. They aren't the typical BMW 5 speed manual gearing, more like a truck. Tall first gear and high rpm's on the highway in 5th - I wouldn't recommend one without a test drive first.

dzuba · October 2002

I am considering leasing as well. Would you mind passing on your estimated payment, I am looking to lease for 30/36 months at 15,000 miles per year.

stever · October 2002

There's also a Lease Questions - Ask Here discussion (and other lease specific topics in the Finance, Warranty & Insurance Board).

Steve, Host

mrbluetooth · October 2002

Couple of additional points in the 5 series vs X5 comparison:

1. There is more room in the back seat area of the X5. If you have car seats, the added roominess and higher seating position makes it easier to buckle in the kids.

2. While the 5 series vehicles are safe and generally should handle better, the X5 has been the "safest vehicle ever tested" thus far by the IIHS. This especially applies to passive safety. The X5 is also much heavier than the 5er. I personally would rather be in the X5 in an unavoidable collision. Notice how heavy the doors are.

dzuba · October 2002

I was originally leaning towards a CPO 2001/2002 3.0 based on price, but as I have done some thorough research I am finding the delta between a 3.0 and 4.4 between $1,000 and $3,000 for equally equipped vehicles. This being the case, I may go for the 4.4 - so here is the question - are there any reliability issues between the two engines, and in general - how do these two stack up when it comes to reliability! My driving pattern will be 30K miles per year, mostly highway! For work, no kids!

greenlatern · October 2002

If it were me in that situation I'd opt for the V-8. With the V-8 you'll be able to pass everything but a gas station and the biggest cost of ownership difference (aside from gas) will probably be the insurance (my agent quoted me bigger $$s for a V-8). The only negative I've ever heard about BMW V-8s is that they're supposedly hard on the tranny; but I've never seen any solid evidence and X5's are still too new to know what happens at 100K+.

Bottom line: don't know of any reliabilty issues specific to the engines.

dzuba · October 2002

I'm curious, on new - what are people out there paying below MSRP? $1500, $2000, $500.00? Today I had a BMW rep offer to throw in the Spartenburg experience if I purchased new vs. CPO, as he has no CPO on the lot! Anyone done the Spart thing, and is it worth it? He flies me down, I do the thing, and drive my vehicle home!

dzuba · October 2002

Did I mention I test drove one today - wow - what a ride. Drove a 3.0 with the Sport Package, not sure I want the Sport, but overall I loved the ride, and really feel the 3.0 is all I need. Now I am trying to figure out is it better to buy new at 46K (and kind of bite the depreciation) or buy a CPO for 42-44K!! Unbelieveable how they are currently holding their value which is probably why I should buy new, but still weighing opinions. I really like the CPO to 100K.

Where is everyone, sleeping or what!!!

rickrover · October 2002

You can go to the BMW website to figure out leasing options www.bmwusa.com

My lease wasn't typical - I had a paid off 97 5 series I traded for my X. Got top dollar for the trade, got them down $1,500 off MSRP and I applied most of the trade to the lease, they stroked me a check for $6k and my total lease payment is only $206 a month 12k a year for 36 months - I'll definately be buying the X at the end of the lease for around $25k (I do that a lot when I lease a BMW).

I didn't do the Spartanburg thing with my X but I have been there for one of the Z3 homecomings (2000 M Coupe) I highly recommend going, that is a fantastic facility. There are all sorts of things they offer - I don't know what's included in the X5 delivery. They may let you drive any of the M series cars on their track. They have an X5 specific track as well.

stever · October 2002

Editors' Most Wanted Vehicles for 2003

Steve, Host

johnd21 · October 2002

I'm buying a new X5 and debating some option choices. The adjustable ride height seems attractive since it also LOWERS the vehicle so it might handle better with a lower center of gravity and improve highway gas mileage. Does anyone have this option and find it useful these ways? Any reliablitity issues? Thanks.

johnd21 · October 2002

I've read the old reviews that discourage the Sport suspension as too rough a ride, but would be interested in anyone's more recent experience. The 4.4i now comes standard with the 18" all-season tires, and perhaps it is just the lower profile wheels that caused the jarring ride referred to in the review since through 2002 BMW included the 19" wheels on the 4.4i sports package. Anyone have a comment on the ride of the 4.4 with and/or without the sports package?

greenlatern · October 2002

One thing I'd like to do sometime is do the Spartanburg thing. If the delivery center trip includes the X5 offroad trail and performance driving school it'd be worth it. The X5 is a unique animal with a performance envelope different from anything else. It'd be great to have somebody teach you where the edges of that envelope are.

From what I've read of adj. ride height it's not worth it. It doesn't (2002) lower automatically at stop and it moves to standard(?) position during normal or high speed driving, not the lowest position. I believe standard is the same height as an X5 w/out adj. ride height. If I'm wrong somebody will correct me.

spfrancis · November 2002

We have been shopping a 2002 model X5 3.0. We are getting quoted around 45.5K, with Premium, Rear Climate, Cold Weather, Xenon, and Auto. The VOB dealer here in Rockville MD, has 10 new(2002) on the lot. Any thoughts on this price, or when they lower the price with 2003's starting to show up. I hate take a full year depreciation as soon as I drive it off the lot. I've heard people on this forum say that December is a good buying time, is this true?

gizmo84 · November 2002

I just purchased a 2002 x5 3.o premium,climate,cold pkg.,auto, xenon. msrp $47,270. I paid $45,000 got free mats and 2.9% finance rate from bmw (special rate just started 11/1) I also got about $1500 more for my trade than I could get from any other dealer. So far I found one map light doesn't work but the ride is incompareable. If you want one buy a 2002 now. In a few years at trade in time you wont get much less than a 2003 but will pay much more for 03 now. to start they are $850 more than 02's. Take advantage of special fin. rate.

dzuba · November 2002

Is that only avail on new X5's? 2002 530?
Do you think they gave you more for your trade-in because they needed to move the 2002 to make room for the 03 or what?

gizmo84 · November 2002

I think the rate 2.9, is available on all 02 models. I don"t know why they gave me so much more for my trade. The x5 had to be gotten from another dealer so it wasn't like they had to get rid of their inventory. I would definitely play one dealer against the other though. Tell them how much you'd rather do business with them than their competition. It seems to go a long way.

spfrancis · November 2002

I'm trying to get a 02 X5 3.0 with auto, Premium, Cold, Climate, parking distance control(which I don't care about) for $44K. No trade-in. The seemed to have conceded on 44.4K, but that is all over the phone. I'm sticking to 44K. I'll keep you posted. Oh, are the prices people quoting including shipping, or not?

gizmo84 · November 2002

the vehicle you described is the exact one I purchased. I neglected to mention the parking dist. which I do have. I also have xenons which is a $500 OPTION SO i ACTUALLY PAID $44500 COMPARED TO the 44.4 you were offered. My advice...take the deal see if you could split the difference, maybe 44.2. Dont wait because you'll be back to paying the increased msrp for a 2003. You'll love the car and make sure you get the pick up service when you need service. good luck! Almost forgot...take advantage of the 2.9% fin. rate.

pswl · November 2002

Dealer asks for $200 "advertising fee" in Virginia and claims it is part of cost. Is this true or it's just another dealer trap?

pswl · November 2002

Spfrancis: your first post said VOB quoted you 45.5K, how did you get the 44.4K quote later for the same equiped 02' X5? From another dealership?

stever · November 2002

steve_ "Toyota Highlander" Jan 23, 2002 10:31am

Steve, Host

bertram60 · November 2002

hopefully I'm just repeating what people know. 2002 models lower base price may be offset by higher residual value on '03 models at lease end.

DZUBA - w./CPO's, my opinion and experience is that you are better off leasing a new car rather than leasing a used one, especially when resale prices are so high on used. Higher residual values, combined with longer maintenance program will probably mean less cost of ownership for an '03. If you're looking at CPO's (I have a Starmaked ML as well) I'd say buy, but for a lease, you've got to be better off with a new X5. Double check your dealer's rates (both residual and lease) to make sure he's being straight with you. Most dealers major profit centers are in their used vehicles, so watch out. Before I bought my used ML, i went to a friend whose a wholesaler and found out what they were going for at the auctions and ended up buying mine for about $1,000 over wholesale ($5,000 under asking price!).

Just make sure you explore all the numbers and have all the facts.

spfrancis · November 2002

When I was in my final phases of negotiations on the phone I was down to 44,580 for a 02 x5 3.0 auto, climate, cold, zenon, dimming mirrors. I just went in yesteday, and I got 44.4 for the above vehicle, and I took it. I think I could have dickered for another $100~, but taking the wife there, always makes it more diffcult. I would recommend not doing that. I did buy from VOB. They also threw in mats, cheap key chain, and rubber mats. I hope that helps.

spfrancis · November 2002

That did include premium, which I forgot.

polo2928b · November 2002

I own a 2000 528 and I love BWM engines, performance and everything BMW stands for, but the X5 feels like a poor job of what all BMW stand for, yes is probably the fastest SUV out on the market but that is all you get with the X5, So I opted for a Discovery 2003 with 217 HP. a V8, 4WD all the time, double transmission, leather, double cargo space vs. the X5, feels stronger, feels like truly utility vehicle with a lot of class. Yes gas consumption is bad on the Discovery but I think that when you buy luxury vehicles gas consumption is not a priority, rather comfort and satisfaction should be the priorities.

faithinme74 · November 2002

I am looking to lease the '03 X5 3.0 (MY first BMW). I went for a test drive the other day and simply loved it. Which dealer in ATL is offering the best deal? Does anyone have advice on negotiating the lease? I would appreciate any thoughts.

dawgpak · November 2002

I've been trying to decide whether to buy a new Volvo XC90, Toyota 4Runner Limited, or even wait for a VW Touareg. About a month ago, I test drove a used 2001 X5 3.0 w/ 5sp. manual at the local dealer. I was interested, but got turned off by the comments in this thread about the 5sp. I didn't consider a new X5 since my plan is to pay cash for my next vehicle by selling two of my existing four cars (which generates enough $$ for a new 4Runner or XC90, but not for a new X5).

Well, I went back today to drive the used X5 one more time and found the 1st and 5th gear issues really didn't bother me much. After negotiating a deal for $38k, I even talked the sales manager into taking the 18" wheels off another X5 (with too many miles on it) in the lot and putting them on mine (which had 17") - which he agreed to. So, I just drove home a blue 2001 X5 w/ 18" wheels, 5sp. manual, and 21k miles. I love it!

yagit1 · November 2002

pls let me know what ur thoughts r on this , i will be buying a 2002 x-5 3.0 demo car with about 10000 miles on it w/ prem package, cold package, rear pkg, xenon, self-dimming mirror for 44000 is this a good price or am i being taken????thanks

greenlatern · November 2002

Taken. 44K for a used Manual? I spent < 5 minutes on auto trader and found much better prices for X5s with lower miles. Walk away.

greenlatern · November 2002

I'm sure you're busy waxing it up -- remember to wax the rims as they are painted and regular waxing will make it easy to clean off the brake dust.

yagit1 · November 2002

greenlatern, i forgot to mention that it is an auto transmission, so do u think the price is still bad, i never had an experience buying a used car so i really don't know...thank you!!!

greenlatern · November 2002

If it were me I'd start looking at both ebay and autotrader for similarly configured '01s and '02s (there are a lot of low mileage '01s out there) and see what the asking price is and what the winning bid is on ebay. Use that info to get a picture of what the actual market price is, not what the $tealer thinks you should pay.

Even with the auto I think it's pretty high.

gizmo84 · November 2002

yagit i just bought a new no miles x5 02, prem.,climate,cold,xenon,auto,parking dist.(which u really need)for 45,000 plus i got about 2000 more for my trade than it was worth(dealer never actually checked trade for options and such till too late)so I guess i really paid $43,000...that said what do you think about your deal? oh yeah, i also got 2.9% financing.good luck.you,ll love it even if you do pay too much.

yagit1 · November 2002

thanks 4 all ur input guys, i should b meeting with the dealer any day this week so i guess i do have an idea of what people r paying 4 an x-5 (my dream sav) i'll let u know what comes out of it 'cuz i might end up getting the '03 with nothing on it except 4 moonroof & auto transmission 1050 below msrp, by the way on the '02 he's giving me a 1.9% financing, i don't know if it matters...

mynextcar · November 2002

I see many people mention about 2.9%, can some one give me the terms for that? Is there a minimum down payment to qualify for that rate? I do not see any special financing in Edmunds or BMW web site. Thanks in advance.

dawgpak · November 2002

Now that I have an X5, thought I'd need a webpage to along with it - with pics and links to general info and reviews... it's a little dated since it mostly includes reviews of MY vehicle. Still has some nice pics for the rest of you.

http://www.dawgpak.com/x5/

Thanks greenlatern for the tip on cleaning all that brake dust from the wheels. Went right out and did it :-)

klws · November 2002

Hi -

I'm considering an X5 among several other SUVs. I have a 525i so anything from BMW is a strong incumbent.

However, with 2 small kids, my wife requires this next car have a DVD player.

BMW doesn't offer one as an option, has anyone had luck installing an aftermarket system or one through a dealer?

Thanks

BMW X5

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