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The WS-50's are only Q rated so you don't want to go very fast for very long with them, and definitely wouldn't want to run them year-round, plus the 2nd half of the tread is not the same sticky winter compound as the first half is.
When new, the vehicle came with Dunlop "all season" tires - the tread looked like passenger car summer tires! Right from the start (first winter that is), I found myself sliding through intersections with the antilock buzzing. I thought the antilock was way too sensitive, and started using the e-brake when required in "emergencies" (someone pulls out in front of you when they shouldn't for example). I even slid the vehicle sideways once to stop it! After the fourth winter I had enough! Even though the tires had lots of tread left, I figured one accident would "swamp" the cost of changing the tires early.
Had the Nokian WR suv tires mounted - purchased at Kal Tire. They are a great outfit - free rotation for life, free tire changing if you get winter only tires. They even repaired a slow leak on one of the original equipment tires the year before, free! That brought me back to purchase.
It was a mild fall, but the snow finally came in November. First time in the snow I found myself forced against the shoulder belt stopping on snow/ice! Antilock didn't even trip. One day we had freezing rain. If you've ever experienced winter in Edmonton Alberta you will know the typical temp is negative for the entire winter. If it ever warms above freezing from November to March it's a rare event! Freezing rain means skating rink roads until the ice evaporates, not melts. I was very careful driving on the ice, but didn't have any problems - though I found I could trip the antilock quite easily.
Spring came and I have just done two trips to the west coast and back (2500 km round trip). The WRs are fantastic on dry "summer" temp roads as well. They were wonderful in heavy rain too!
Very happy with these tires. Only have 10,000 km on them so far, and haven't noticed excessive wear.
Any input would be great!
regards,
kyfdx
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I have about 23,000 miles on my 2001 Toyota Prius' OEM tires, I think that's about 2 years of service (I'd have to double-check my notebook in my car for the exact date). My usual pressure is about 41F/39R.
OEM Bridgestone Potenza RE92 XL
P175/65 R14 84S
original tread depth is supposedly 10/32"
Measuring the 4 main grooves:
left outside ---> inside; right inside ---> outside
left front: 7, 8, 8, 7 ; right front: 5, 7, 6, 5
eft rear: 6, 7, 7, 7 ; right rear: 6, 6, 5, 4
My husband has about 24,000 miles on his 2004 Toyota Prius with OEM tires.
That's just shy of 2 years. Usual pressure is around 40F/38R.
OEM Goodyear Integrity
P185/65 R15 86S
original tread depth is supposedly 10/32"
Measuring the 3 main grooves:
left outside ---> inside; right inside ---> outside
left front: 6, 8, 7 ; right front: 6, 7, 5
left rear: 5, 7, 6 ; right rear: 5, 6, 5
Unfortunately, neither car has been in for an alignment yet. But the tires do get rotated (or so says my paid work orders) at every oil change (6 months or 7500/5000 miles).
So, I have more tread wear on the edges, and it looks like about 2/32" of
tread wear per year...
Just some data points for those out there...
Anyhow, the question I have is: is it time to dump these tires, or should I hold onto them for another season? (I know a number of Prius owners hate the OEM tires...)
I know that I need to invest in some snow tires for this upcoming MA winter. Last winter I kept sliding backwards down my paved but icy driveway with my 2001, and my husband slid into a snowbank or two with his 2004 BC (and the front bumper still keeps popping off of some of its clips).
I was thinking of just going straight to some Nokian WR A.W.P.2 tires (4-season tires with the Severe Service emblem) for full-time use, but...
Should I/can I just put the Nokian WR onto the current aluminum rims for this winter, change back to the OEM tires for the upcoming spring/summer/fall 2006, and then remount the WRs for the following winter and on? Or should I get some steel rims just for this winter for the WRs, and then move them back when I dump the OEMs?
Or should I just buy some steel rims and winter tires (Bridgestone Blizzak WS50 or Nokian RSI), and then have to look into buying another 3-season tire (Nokian NRHi/i3) in another year or so? (This seems much more expensive and more hassle than just going for the WRs above, but...)
Just looking for any tire/wheel advice. Thanks in advance!
I have run WRs all year on a minivan and the older NRW in winter on a Subaru. They are great tires for winter, not as good on ice as Blizzaks but much better on dry roads. they are as good as decent all seasons in summer too. Unless you have lots of unplowed roads to drive through the WRs all year round would be a good bet.
while lots of people say don't use alloys in winter as they will corrode, I have actually found that every steel wheel I use in winter ends up rusting and needing some touch up work in the summer before going on again the next season - whether its functional I dunno but its certainly aesthetically unpleasant with rust on the rims! the alloys on the other hand seem to do fine though, but you do have to wash them regularly. stay away from chrome in winter though!
As much as I and family love the WR's I don't know if I'd recommend them too you as a year round. You should probably check with conner on the "ask conner at tirerack" thread. Here's my reasoning, you drive a Prius for fuel economy. For the months where it is just wet or dry you need a very low rolling resistance tire. Aired the same way as I always had, I lost some mpg running the WR's as my 3 season tires on the Corolla. I can live with it as they are some of the best tires I ever had for rain. Unfortunately the perfect tire does not exist. Great grip and wet traction normally come at the expensive of tire life and mpg. It can't stick too the road for that and then NOT stick too provide a very easy roll too increase mpg and life.
The Nokian WR tires perform great in winter. They allow the vehicle to stop so hard I may get rear ended! They worked fine this summer too, very good in rain. I drive hard on curvy roads, and I notice they make a "rushing" noise under cornering - I suspect this is because of the aggressive siping they have. They are quiet when going straight. So far no excessive wear or other complaints. Fuel economy is about the same as when the stock tires were on.
I have posted two previous reports on these tires - read back to find those.
connortirerack, "Ask Connor at The Tire Rack" #1161, 1 Oct 2005 12:44 pm
Steve, Host
Michelin X-Ice
Viking SnowTech
Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice
Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50
Mastercraft Glacier Grip II
Gislaved Nordfrost 3
Nokian Hakkapelitta 2
Cooper Weather-Master S/T 2
Kelly Wintermark Magna Grip HT
Nokian Hakkapeliitta RSI
Hankook W404
Dayton Winterforce
The Viking SnowTech is fairly interesting in that it's a much less expensive tire than most of the others (about 1/2 the price of Nokians). It showed average figures for snow traction and ice braking, but better than average in all other catagories. I've never seen a CR rating for the Nokian WR, but wonder if it would have similar attributes in being a balanced performance year round tire. Anyone have experience with Viking tires? I don't always believe CR tests things with the same considerations I have, so I don't know how much weight to put into their tests.
I live in the metrowest Boston area. I don't need to go through 10" of unplowed snow, but I've always liked the added safety of a winter tire (on our previous car we ran Gislaved Nordfrost tires with much success). My one consideration with our new Prius is that it's traction control cannot be turned off. Others have reported that if you loose traction, you can floor the gas pedal and the wheels won't spin. The only solution is to have better winter tires than the OEM all seasons.
Another important issue is size, I saw some German reports once where different sizes made a tremendous difference to results of the same brand, the German equivalent of the AA when testing will do different sizes of the same brand and what is top in one size may be bottom in another! Scaling up or down the tread pattern can have weird effects!
For now, I'll just use the WRs as winter tires. I'll keep the OEMs on the alloys for spring/summer/fall use. When the OEMs die, I can either just use the WRs full-time, or I can buy a new 3-season tire, or I could buy a more agressive winter tire and use the WRs as 3-season (if I decide that the WRs aren't good enough for my winters). yes, more decisions, but they'll be a year from now at the earliest.
Oh, and I'm in the metrowest area of MA, USA.
As much as I tried to read the Nov. 2005 Consumer Reports on tires, I never found it as I don't know anyone who subscribes, and all the local libraries only have the Oct. 2005 issue as their newest mailed to them issue.
Winter tires seen regaining traction (MSNBC)
Ok, how about some Suburban help for BC13?
Steve, Host
In reference to the Nokian it is too bad they did not spotlight the Nokian WR. It is the perfect solution for those who need winter tires with longevity (50k mile tread life) and if they only want one tire it works great in wet, dry, and is quiet year round. I think the winter traction is great in snow and ok on ice.
I'm intrigued by the high ratings for the Michelin X-Ice. It looks like it's optimized for my kind of use: Lots of flatland dry road highway commuting. Outstanding braking performance on black ice even when the tire has 25,000 miles on it. Acceptable performance in rain, slush, and deep snow.
In my wimpy 195/65R15 size for the VW, the tire is $80 at tire rack and I can buy them locally for a similar price once I factor in shipping and mounting fees. That's significantly less than I'd pay for replacing my Nokians. I paid $94/tire for my Hakka Q's back in 2001 and the price has shot up significantly since then. I have a couple of more weeks before I pull the trigger but I'm thinking of trying the X-Ice this time.
Killington opened yesterday with 3 feet of new snow over bare ground but I decided to pass. My last two ski days in August at Valle Nevado, Chile were in 8 feet of untracked powder on sunny days. I seem to have an attitude problem. I'm using "I need to winterize my boat" as my excuse.
We had one dusting about three weeks ago that lasted a few hours - opening date for Bogus ski school is set for 12/10 but maybe they'll get to open the mountain Thanksgiving. Unlikely although there's no El Niño this season. Chile looks nice!
I didn't run my mounted studs last winter and don't plan to this year either (they are pretty stale anyway).
Steve, Host
Hey Geoff (and here I thought you were just a SUV bigot, LOL).
I have a strong and preconceived opinion on virtually any topic. Just ask me. *grin*
I didn't run my mounted studs last winter and don't plan to this year either (they are pretty stale anyway).
You don't live in a place that's all that prone to black ice where studs give you that essential traction advantage. I'm pissed that Nokian did away with their Hakka Q friction tire. The Hakka 2 isn't as good unless you stud it. The RSI is more of an autobahn snow tire. I guess I'm going with Michelin X-Ice at the local BJ's Wholesale (Costco/Sams warehouse store). $97 per tire mounted, balanced, new valve stems, dispose of my old Nokians, lifetime tire rotation. They told me they've got a $5-off Michelin coupon starting November 5th so that shaves it down to $92.
I haven't even seen any black ice since moving to Boise 5 years ago, but a surprising number of people here run studs. I guess they could come in handy over in the Sawtooths. Here's hoping for a snowy winter.
Steve, Host
There was an article somewhere I read about how the different tire manufacturers have different goals for their winter tires depending on their domestic markets, eg the Japanese supposedly sit in traffic jams turning the snow into black ice at intersections so they are most interested in straight line traction and ice traction, hence the special compound used on the lower speed rated Blizzaks. The mainland Europeans are interested in high speed running - autobahns etc. The Scandinavians who hardly ever plow their roads don't want to skid off the curves.
I am willing to try the X-ice if they are appreciably better - their tread does look like it is not so fore and aft centric.
JS
2001 Volvo S60 2.4T
Spirited driving, 35000 miles per year (80% highway)
Obviously would like treads to last more than one season, 2 or 3 is better (duh)
I look at snow tires as insurance. I get 4 seasons out of them so I pay about $150/year to get an improved safety margin.
Unless the new Maximas have better stock (all-season, not sporty) tires, I'd strongly recommend some kind of snow tire.
Dave
I would not buy dedicated ice/snow tires (Q rated tires like Blizzak 50, Dunlop Graspic etc) because one would wear them off in no time driving on dry, quite warm days.
If you still want snow tires then I would look at high performance winter tires (H rated at least like Dunlop M3, Blizzak LM-22 and LM-25). Nokian WR might be good choice too. They give up ultimate ice/snow grip for better treadwear, higher speed rating, better dry and slush performance.
Krzys
If you put winter tires just on the rear of your car, you'll basically have all the propulsion you need... with no steering control or grip with the front tires..
Downsizing to 18" or 17" (are you sure 17" will clear the brakes?), will also optimize your winter traction.. But, of course, you'll need another set of wheels, as well.
Did your dealer really suggest that you go through winter with summer performance tires on the front of your car?
regards,
kyfdx
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Maybe things are different now, but when I lived in the area they were terrible at removing/treating snow, and an inch or two would shut things down. I see no problem with snows in DC. Just wait to put them on until the first storm, and they won't wear out so fast.
Dudley
Call them (maybe they have an e:maill too?) and tell them about your dealer suggestion. It asks for some reaction from higher authority.
Follow the TireRack recommendation. They know what they are talking about (most of the time - always would be too dangerous to say ;-)
Krzys
Would I be better off with one than the other in the winter here?
We've been running Michelin Arctic Alpins on the Ody since 2000. It's been a good tire for Boston winters because they run well on dry surfaces. But alas, they've been discontinued.
The Passat is new for this year and I'll be mounting Dunlop Winter Sports on T-Day. I've heard good things about them in both snowy and dry conditions.
The Nokian WR may be the best bet if you want that brand. Since they tend to plow pretty well in Boston, the WR will probably work well since they really are an all season tire with the snowflake designation.
The only problem I see with Nokian is that the purveyors of fine vulcanized rings for automotive applications in this area seem to think they're Shreve, Crump & Lowe.
Sullivan, Hogan, NTB, and Direct are always more.
The only downfall to running them all year is of course you don't have max tread for winter time since it wore down some all summer. None of them have had any complaints and my inlaws even replaced the tires on their new at the time 2003 RX300 the first day with the WR's from their experience on their previous vehicle. The Nokian site has a dealer locator that might help you.
Still looking for rims? try e-bay if your into it otherwise ask local dealer if they have any take-offs from people upgrading. Local junkyard might have also.
Try discounttire.com - they may still have packages left.
Town Fair Tire ads seem to have pretty good pricing on packages but I don't know what the actuality is.
As for the Passat, were you looking at 15 or 16 inch? I got the 16" and they still have the Dunlops available. For the Odyssey, try some dealers. Some folks on another forum has reported finding them for about $45 each.
"The only problem I see with Nokian is that the purveyors of fine vulcanized rings for automotive applications in this area seem to think they're Shreve, Crump & Lowe."
Very funny, but true. I purchased a set of Nokian WR tires from www.tirefactory.net. Their price was great, and they arrived via Fedex Ground in 2 or 3 days (to the Boston area). If I remember, DirectTire wanted about 30% more for the same tire.
I bought it this spring, and had wondered just how well the AWD system would work. Boy oh boy, that was the best money I ever spent on an automobile option!
After some cautious experimentation, I found that I can pretty much stomp on the gas and the car will accelerate like it's on dry pavement. It pushes back into the seat and there's virtually no fishtail or loss of control.
The slip indicator comes on and the system responds immediately, shifting torque back, forward or side to side as needed. Amazing!
I put Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3's on just before the snow flew (see link below -- I used the same size as the OEM all seasons) which I'm sure is making a big difference as well, especially when it comes to stopping.
Dunlop M3's
I can't recommend the car or the tires enough, what a thrill!