Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

Michaell · February 2015

When we sold my wife's grandmother's duplex last year (college town), we had an all cash offer for the asking price the day it was listed. House hadn't been updated in probably 25+ years - our understanding was that the buyer was going to do some light renovation and then list it as a rental for college kids - 3 bedrooms, 3 full baths, but only a 1 car garage.

On the Subaru front, I got a copy of the window sticker via email. $38,094 MSRP. Includes option package 23 (Eyesight, Nav, sunroof), body side moldings, popular package 5 (rear bumper cover, splash guards, all weather mats, seat back protectors, rear view mirror with blind spot), rear bumper underguard, rear cargo net and wheel lock kit.

TMV shows $35,175. Dealer has a $499 doc fee. $34,000 as my opening offer?

stever · February 2015

Play the game @Michaell‌ - $33,999.

qbrozen · February 2015

@Michaell‌ What am I missing? Is this a Legacy 3.6R Limited? I'll be damned if I can get truecar to come up with $38k.

nyccarguy · February 2015

I just don't see THAT many Mustangs on the road to begin with (RWD, Solid Axle, Coupe). Mostly I see 6 - 10 year old V6 Coupes as daily drivers with a few GTs sprinkled in here & there. I obviously see more on the road in the spring & summer months. So when I do see a nice GT on the road in the dead of winter, it stands out. The V8 rumble as it downshifts and rockets by me on the highway is just so sexy. I saw a Black 2015 Mustang GT on the road this AM. Ford really did a fantastic job on the styling. You still know it is a Mustang barreling down the left lane behind you (and you better move over), but they have made it so current and European looking. From the back, the way the rear tail lights slant forward and how the rear window is designed the Mustang has a silhouette like a 911. The 5.0 badges on the side let you know it is the real deal.

The Turbo 4 Motor is nothing to sneeze at either. No it doesn't have the cache of the 5.0 badge, but it does have a lighter nose and a lower price of entry. You can still get the track pack and a 6 speed stick too.

stickguy · February 2015

Seems low Michael unless there are factor rebates. VIP pricing is 2% below invoice. I would think 35 including dealer fee might be doable. But, you know these are not common, and doesn't seem like they will have much trouble selling it.

Easier also to use the carmax price and make it a net difference OTD offer.

Michaell · February 2015

qbrozen said:
@Michaell‌ What am I missing? Is this a Legacy 3.6R Limited? I'll be damned if I can get truecar to come up with $38k.

Outback 3.6R Limited. When I use the build and price tool here at Edmunds, I get the exact MSRP that shows on the sticker.

Michaell · February 2015

stickguy said:
Seems low Michael unless there are factor rebates. VIP pricing is 2% below invoice. I would think 35 including dealer fee might be doable. But, you know these are not common, and doesn't seem like they will have much trouble selling it.

Easier also to use the carmax price and make it a net difference OTD offer.

Invoice is $35,016 per Edmunds. There is $500 lease cash that ends 3/2/15, but I'm not sure I will lease. 2% back of that is $34,316. Don't know what holdback is for Subaru, but I may be asking for some of that money with my offer.

I agree that there aren't many 3.6R's made, so that may negate my leverage. On the other hand, it's a quick sale if the numbers work out right - a skinny deal, but a quick one.

qbrozen · February 2015

Outback. OK. Now I got it. Truecar is $35,018. So pretty close. The lowest they show someone paying is $34,583. But they also offer an extra $200 for members of various things (Amex card holder or Geico customer, for example).

Michaell · February 2015

nyccarguy said:
I just don't see THAT many Mustangs on the road to begin with (RWD, Solid Axle, Coupe). Mostly I see 6 - 10 year old V6 Coupes as daily drivers with a few GTs sprinkled in here & there. I obviously see more on the road in the spring & summer months. So when I do see a nice GT on the road in the dead of winter, it stands out. The V8 rumble as it downshifts and rockets by me on the highway is just so sexy. I saw a Black 2015 Mustang GT on the road this AM. Ford really did a fantastic job on the styling. You still know it is a Mustang barreling down the left lane behind you (and you better move over), but they have made it so current and European looking. From the back, the way the rear tail lights slant forward and how the rear window is designed the Mustang has a silhouette like a 911. The 5.0 badges on the side let you know it is the real deal.

The Turbo 4 Motor is nothing to sneeze at either. No it doesn't have the cache of the 5.0 badge, but it does have a lighter nose and a lower price of entry. You can still get the track pack and a 6 speed stick too.

I'm seeing more of the 2015 Mustangs here as well. They are much sleeker than previous versions, in my mind. Very cool looking. I'd love love love to get a GT someday.

rayainsw · February 2015

Holdback - from 2010 here in Edmunds:

Subaru 2% of the Total MSRP (Amount may differ in Northeastern U.S.)

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/dealer-holdback/

ab348 · February 2015

Michaell said:

I'm seeing more of the 2015 Mustangs here as well. They are much sleeker than previous versions, in my mind. Very cool looking. I'd love love love to get a GT someday.

Not seeing any (or much of anything fun) on the roads here thanks to our North Pole winter. Some roads are unbelievably bad - caked ice with giant "potholes" everywhere where the asphalt is showing. Or on the main roads that are clear to asphalt, real and very deep and nasty potholes. It has been so cold that road salt only works intermittently and we have had big storms every few days. The other issue is that there has been so much snow that the snowbanks left by the plows are significantly narrowing streets and roads. You have merge lanes that do not exist because they are covered in snow, etc, and city streets are down to one or 1+ a half lane in many places. Many people are up in arms at the job govts have done clearing the roads and there certainly has been some incompetence but these conditions are extreme. Body shops are reporting a big spike in accident work because of all this. I am 58 and do not remember a winter this nasty for such an extended period. The ATS gets out maybe once a week, just around the area, for provisions. You don't want to drive anything nice right now around here.

Michaell · February 2015

rayainsw said:
Holdback - from 2010 here in Edmunds:

Subaru 2% of the Total MSRP (Amount may differ in Northeastern U.S.)

http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/dealer-holdback/

So, $760 in this case.

The only thing that I'm worried about is the timing ... all the current incentives expire on Monday; our car is expected to be at the dealer on Tuesday. Edmunds probably won't have the new documents until later in the week. Here's hoping the numbers don't change.

qbrozen · February 2015

what incentives? The APR? Its not that special. I got 1.9 for 72 mos from a regular old bank through the Caddy dealer.

Michaell · February 2015

qbrozen said:
what incentives? The APR? Its not that special. I got 1.9 for 72 mos from a regular old bank through the Caddy dealer.

Good to know.

roadburner · February 2015

sandman_6472 said:
Been without a mortgage for 20 years now and it's the best feeling especially having to have put 3 through college and grad school for the older 2. We've done the kids bathroom and the flooring but the kitchen and master bath need attention. The Bathfitter guy came last week for our walk-in shower and think it's a go. Not ready to throw 10k at the whole bathroom yet since I think we'll be selling in about five years. As long as things hold up, might just have to do the fridge and wait on the rest. Really want to downsize and a good chance we might relocate to the west coast of Florida following our girls. Time will tell but taking things slow.

The Sandman

We don't have a mortgage either, and unless someone wants to offer us an absolutely obscene amount of money for the old homestead we have no plans to move.
Ever.

stever · February 2015

Moving is kind of fun and it's a great way to get rid of a lot of junk. CHBA anyone?

(Did I mention we're looking at a couple of houses later this week?

)

roadburner · February 2015

stever said:
Moving is kind of fun and it's a great way to get rid of a lot of junk. CHBA anyone?

(Did I mention we're looking at a couple of houses later this week? )

Every 5-10 years we rent a small dumpster and throw away any junk that we have laying around. Anything that is still usable gets donated to Goodwill or similar.

jayrider · February 2015

roadburner said:

stever said:
Moving is kind of fun and it's a great way to get rid of a lot of junk. CHBA anyone?

(Did I mention we're looking at a couple of houses later this week? )
Every 5-10 years we rent a small dumpster and throw away any junk that we have laying around. Anything that is still usable gets donated to Goodwill or similar.

Skip the dumpster fee and put your "stuff" on the curb with FREE on it.

breld · February 2015

Michael - if you have any issues getting the deal done with Groove, Heuburger down in the Springs seems to have the "volume seller" approach, as evidenced by the $1,500 below invoice quote on the WRX I received.

This was directly through their "internet" person, so let me know if you'd like that specific contact info.

breld · February 2015

Speaking of homes and related costs, we've been having back up issues with our sewer line. We've had a few instances of the "water" coming back up through the drain in our basement - in once instance there was about 1-2 inches of it in our storage area (unfinished portion, thank goodness).

Had someone come out today to run a scope and the problem was pretty clear, where the sewer line under our driveway doesn't have a proper grade.

$5,000 to get it fixed! On a 4 year old home!

I'm gonna speak with the builder, but don't hold out much hope on that front.

brian125 · February 2015

@michaell‌ said

Invoice is $35,016 per Edmunds. There is $500 lease cash that ends 3/2/15, but I'm not sure I will lease. 2% back of that is $34,316. Don't know what holdback is for Subaru, but I may be asking for some of that money with my offer.

I agree that there aren't many 3.6R's made, so that may negate my leverage. On the other hand, it's a quick sale if the numbers work out right - a skinny deal, but a quick one.

.......................................................................................................

Mike ................34k is a solid offer for both dealer and you. I'm in the process of buying 2 Forester's either in NY or NJ in the next couple of days. . Pricing on the Forester should be tight on this model . Subaru makes it very hard to get exactly what you want in your model with all there broken up packages and items added or not added. I was on a local dealers lot and cant believe how these vehicles come in. Even dealers don't know.

FYI : Make it clear to all selling dealership. No window Etching usually $199 and No Appearance pk priced at 595 to 650 dollars. ( paper pin stripe, spray guard on seats, etc ) A lot of dealers in my area have them on every model.

700 to 1000 below dealers invoice after taking dealers doc fee into consideration ( $499) is a top deal right now on your model. There are no incentives unless you lease

If dealer wont go for the 34k counter price with Oil changes / added Accessories. Outback's production is limited and I would assume a Outback sold in your state harder than others.

I really like the Outback The bigger engine is a better choice.

corvette · February 2015

stickguy, I'm looking in Louisville. Can't fathom paying some of these prices for something that needs tens of thousands in work.

ab348 · February 2015

breld said:
Speaking of homes and related costs, we've been having back up issues with our sewer line. We've had a few instances of the "water" coming back up through the drain in our basement - in once instance there was about 1-2 inches of it in our storage area (unfinished portion, thank goodness).

Had someone come out today to run a scope and the problem was pretty clear, where the sewer line under our driveway doesn't have a proper grade.

$5,000 to get it fixed! On a 4 year old home!

I'm gonna speak with the builder, but don't hold out much hope on that front.

I'm surprised that a 4 year old home doesn't have an anti-backup valve in the line.

Michaell · February 2015

brian125 said:
@michaell‌ said

Invoice is $35,016 per Edmunds. There is $500 lease cash that ends 3/2/15, but I'm not sure I will lease. 2% back of that is $34,316. Don't know what holdback is for Subaru, but I may be asking for some of that money with my offer.

I agree that there aren't many 3.6R's made, so that may negate my leverage. On the other hand, it's a quick sale if the numbers work out right - a skinny deal, but a quick one.

.......................................................................................................

Mike ................34k is a solid offer for both dealer and you. I'm in the process of buying 2 Forester's either in NY or NJ in the next couple of days. . Pricing on the Forester should be tight on this model . Subaru makes it very hard to get exactly what you want in your model with all there broken up packages and items added or not added. I was on a local dealers lot and cant believe how these vehicles come in. Even dealers don't know.

FYI : Make it clear to all selling dealership. No window Etching usually $199 and No Appearance pk priced at 595 to 650 dollars. ( paper pin stripe, spray guard on seats, etc ) A lot of dealers in my area have them on every model.

700 to 1000 below dealers invoice after taking dealers doc fee into consideration ( $499) is a top deal right now on your model. There are no incentives unless you lease

If dealer wont go for the 34k counter price with Oil changes / added Accessories. Outback's production is limited and I would assume a Outback sold in your state harder than others.

I really like the Outback The bigger engine is a better choice.

brian, thanks for the affirmation and feedback. I don't believe this dealer does the last minute add on stuff. We bought our Mazda from the same dealership group 4 years ago and it was also a smooth transaction.

You are right about availability - the dealer closest to us didn't have an Outback 3.6R on the lot for us to test drive, so we moved on to the next closest dealer. Who not only had one equipped the way we wanted to evaluate, but had one coming that was the exact color the wife wanted, with the correct option groups.

Michaell · February 2015

corvette said:
stickguy, I'm looking in Louisville. Can't fathom paying some of these prices for something that needs tens of thousands in work.

Best of luck on the house hunt ... it can be frustrating. Part of the reason we've been in our house for 15 years .. "and we'll probably die here" is what the wife frequently says.

nyccarguy · February 2015

@brian125‌

Have you contacted Kingery Subaru in Rye (Westchester)? They advertise in the paper every week and must be hungry for volume business. Foresters too don't seem to have the supply problem that the Legacys & Outbacks have.

brian125 · February 2015

nyccarguy said:
@brian125‌

Have you contacted Kingery Subaru in Rye (Westchester)? They advertise in the paper every week and must be hungry for volume business. Foresters too don't seem to have the supply problem that the Legacys & Outbacks have.

Agreed a lot more Foresters than Legacy's & Outback's. I must of counted 20 Foresters on one dealers lot. Very few Legacy's and 2 Outback's.

Thanks for the heads up.

I will give Kingery a call in a few days.

js06gv · February 2015

Had something weird happen to the Mustang today. My wife has been telling me that the clock is losing time, about 15 mins a week. This is the one built into the infotainment/sync/my ford touch screen but everything else works flawlessly. I stopped by the dealer and the service mgr said he'd research and call me back; didn't have any service bulletins or anything on it. Today he called with a couple of setting options, so I went out to the car, hit accessory mode and noticed that the clock was 15 mins behind as usual. Then the screen flashed a warning that it was shutting down to save power. Uh oh. Car was totally dead after that and I had to jump it with my battery box. Car had been in the garage not moving for the past couple of days, as we had one of our famous Dallas ice storms that shuts the whole city down and I wouldn't let my wife take it out.

Then I got to thinking that a couple of times when cranking it seemed like it was doing so a little slower than usual but since push button start is still relatively new to me I wasn't sure that was so unusual. Could be the car was just delivered with a weak battery and maybe that's the reason for the clock problem. Dealer is sending a tech to my house tomorrow to swap a new battery in.

nyccarguy · February 2015

Thank-you guys for all of your input regarding my refinance. I took a lot of what you guys said into consideration. Things I didn't think of, but took a step back and realized it makes sense.

nyccarguy · February 2015

breld said:
Speaking of homes and related costs, we've been having back up issues with our sewer line. We've had a few instances of the "water" coming back up through the drain in our basement - in once instance there was about 1-2 inches of it in our storage area (unfinished portion, thank goodness).

Had someone come out today to run a scope and the problem was pretty clear, where the sewer line under our driveway doesn't have a proper grade.

$5,000 to get it fixed! On a 4 year old home!

I'm gonna speak with the builder, but don't hold out much hope on that front.

I would definitely get a 2nd opinion on that. Does the water back up every time it rains or just during torrential downpours? Are your neighbors having similar problems? It might be something for the city to look into.

brian125 · February 2015

JD powers new 2015 vehicle Dependability list.... Lexus #1 4 yrs. running . 2 Buick. 3. Cadillac. 4 Toyota

Check out the 4 min clip on the 3 biggest complaints concerns with most vehicles.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2015-vehicle-dependability-study

Sandman6472 · February 2015

Service guy coming for both toilets in the afternoon...one runs and the newer ones handle hits the top cover. We have a yearly service contract on the appliances, plumbing and electrical since I am not handy. It only covers light plumbing and a slab leak we had years ago wasn't covered so we had to go through our house insurance, mighty expensive as I recall and the plumber recommended to us sucked big time. Still, we like having the contract for the piece of mind it gives us on our 28 year home. Will probably sell within the next five to eight years and follow the girls, wherever that is.

The Sandman

tommister2 · February 2015

@js06gv that's odd, hopefully it is just the battery. Nice of the dealer to send someone out to take care of it.

qbrozen · February 2015

Oh My!

corvette · February 2015

My 3-series had a battery sensor problem that would shut the accessories off because it thought the battery was dead. Took three dealers to get it properly diagnosed. Hopefully your Mustang just has a bad battery and not some weird sensor!

nyccarguy · February 2015

qbrozen said:
Oh My!

you are nuts with the Volvos! It is hysterical!

stickguy · February 2015

Damn Q, you had to show that to me? I love it. Nit sure my wife would agree. Pretty well loaded and super low miles. CPO. I wish I needed a car.

You should certainly upgrade your wife into that!

stever · February 2015

Wish I could enjoy the love, but I still flash on the two '74s that were mechanically junk (the seats were great). My sister's 80ish Volvo was a keeper though and she had it for around 14 years, and she's hard on cars. I suppose I'm not the only one carrying around a 40 year old car grudge though.

qbrozen · February 2015

stickguy said:
Damn Q, you had to show that to me? I love it. Nit sure my wife would agree. Pretty well loaded and super low miles. CPO. I wish I needed a car.

You should certainly upgrade your wife into that!

I knew you'd dig that one.

I came across an interesting VW for you last night, but now can't find it.

I really really want to hold off on the volvo till Oct. I just can't stop myself from looking, of course. The color combo is so freakin sweet. Don't know if she would dig it, though. I think her ideal may be blue with brown leather. Have not run across that combo yet, though. Only thing that orange one seems to be missing is the navi.

suydam · February 2015

We just bought a car! I am not like you folks and tend to keep my vehicles a long time. When I woke up yesterday morning buying a car was not even on my radar. We have an '04 Pontiac Vibe that is very basic transportation but it's the around town dog and errands car. Long story short, it needs a new radiator just for starters. I just felt tired of throwing $$ at a vehicle that isn't worth much at this point. Just for kicks I looked at the dealer's inventory and they had a leftover '14 Buick Encore. I have had my eye on these for awhile now as we had one as a rental last year. Spouse and I drove it and agreed we really like it. Equipped pretty much as we want it. Only thing it lacks is push button start. Anyway, possibly this being a pretty awful time weather wise, and a leftover '14, dealer was willing to negotiate and we got a great price. We will pick it up later this afternoon. I'm not sure the dogs will care about the creature comforts but I know I will appreciate them. The last time we bought a car on the spur of the moment it was a Nissan Maxima that became my all time favorite car, so I'm hoping this works out too.

stickguy · February 2015

Q, the same dealer has a white one with same interior. A little cheaper. More miles but has the multimedia package. Navi, upgraded stereo, and backup cam. Should get that for my daughter! Only missing BLIS.

stickguy · February 2015

Good deal suydam. Enjoy it. I sat in one still the car show recently, and liked it quite a bit.

qbrozen · February 2015

stickguy said:
Q, the same dealer has a white one with same interior. A little cheaper. More miles but has the multimedia package. Navi, upgraded stereo, and backup cam. Should get that for my daughter! Only missing BLIS.

44k miles is a bit high for my taste at that price. They have a real oddball in that white/brown combo, too. A T6 AWD with tech and premium packs but no climate pack.

stickguy · February 2015

the T6 sounds like a southern car.

Sandman6472 · February 2015

Looked at the '14 Encore last before I bought the Tucson and also liked it. If Hyundai hadn't worked out, was planning on revisiting the Buick store to see what kind of deal we could make but Hyundai stepped up and it was a done deal. Have had a few of them at work and hopefully will be seeing more in the HLE fleet soon.
Buick is doing some great work as of late and think GM has finally figured things out! Great vehicle but no details??? C'mon man...we need details!!!

The Sandman

imidazol97 · February 2015

stever said:
I suppose I'm not the only one carrying around a 40 year old car grudge though.

LOL

suydam · February 2015

Let's see. Black exterior (my least favorite but at least the interior is not all black). Convenience trim, which means upgraded cloth/leatherette seats, power drivers seat, backup camera, blind spot warning, rear cross traffic alert, autodim mirror, comes with 6 mo. OnStar and 3 mo. Sirus/XM, bluetooth and all that, ipod connection nice infotainment screen, sunroof, keyless entry (but not push button start), remote start (starting vehicle from outside??), fog lamps, heated power outside mirrors, 18" wheels, 2 year free service at the dealership. I haven't picked it up yet so I haven't played with any of these things. I'm usually a Honda - Mazda - Nissan type person so owning a new GM vehicle is a change for me. My son has had good luck with Buick, and it seems very nicely made. I like the entry/egress seat height and both of us thought the front seats are extremely comfortable. What I really like is its small size for maneuverability, turning radius, and visibility all around. It drives really nicely, not at all like a typical SUV, and MUCH better than the Vibe. Very similar to my Honda Accord in fact only more compact.

xwesx · February 2015

JS - My Fiesta loses time as well. But, nothing like 15min per week! More like a couple minutes per month or so.

Modern cars are pretty tough on batteries. They have many constant-draw items in them these days, and batteries are still typically just starting batteries (e.g., not deep cycle units). If your wife doesn't drive it for long periods of time (a few miles here, stop, a few miles there, stop, etc.), it is quite likely that the battery is getting drawn down.

A good long-term solution is to install a trickle charger in the car (Alaskan style!) with the plug sticking out of the grille. Then, you just pick a day of the week, like Friday night when you get home, and plug it in. Easy to remember, and the weekly overnight charge will keep the battery in top shape.

xwesx · February 2015

I do like the coloring of that Volvo (inside and out), but the overall style of the car just isn't speaking to me.

Q, does your wife have a preference of sedan vs. wagon? I think your S70 is a wagon, isn't it? I'm just curious if she would find the drawbacks of a sedan's space restrictions unsuitable over time.

xwesx · February 2015

suydam said:
MUCH better than the Vibe. Very similar to my Honda Accord in fact only more compact.

Much better than the Vibe did new or does now?

Pontiac was supposed to be the "performance" division of GM, but I'm not sure they wore that distinction very well, at least in terms of handling.

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