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Truly safe?

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Comments

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A lot of the newer safety features are there to help you avoid wrecks.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Wrecks often caused by unskilled drivers in a lowest common denominator environment.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    a lowest common denominator environment

    That's my definition of all these work "teaming" arrangements. I used to call it "regression to the mean", but soon realized that was far too charitable :p
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    stever said:

    A lot of the newer safety features are there to help you avoid wrecks.

    It doesn't seem the Hellcat's safety features are robust enough for new drivers trying to enjoy 707 HP. I've seen a lot of damaged Hellcat's already online.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2015
    "Obese people are 78% more likely to die in a crash than someone of average weight."

    The fatter crash test dummies that could save lives (BBC)
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    Let nature take its course- the Law of Natural Selection is not to be trifled with...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    edited February 2015
    Just drive a Swabian or Bavarian car, they are engineered for big-boned southern Germans :)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Except that they make take me out along with them. This adds a wrinkle Darwin never mentioned....although I suppose I could be faulted for not swerving fast enough to avoid them :)

    Driving tests need to become a LOT more difficult. There are people out there who should not be driving. They are totally incompetent to pilot 2 tons of hurtling steel down a public street.

    Let nature take its course- the Law of Natural Selection is not to be trifled with...

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729

    Except that they make take me out along with them. This adds a wrinkle Darwin never mentioned....although I suppose I could be faulted for not swerving fast enough to avoid them :)

    Driving tests need to become a LOT more difficult. There are people out there who should not be driving. They are totally incompetent to pilot 2 tons of hurtling steel down a public street.

    Let nature take its course- the Law of Natural Selection is not to be trifled with...

    I agree, the driving test should be longer, more thorough, and include freeway driving, merging, and lane courtesy observance.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    I don't recall any higher speed driving on my test - more than 20 years ago now though, maybe I forget. I do remember 2 classes of it in drivers ed, but it just loafing along at 60.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I remember a woman neighbor who failed the driving test 7 times. She finally squeaked by. She was an AWFUL driver---horrible. She wore thick goggle-glasses. She was the type that was always tripping and walking into closed sliding doors in shopping malls (Ms. MaGoo?) I never followed up with how much damage, death and destruction she inspired, as I moved soon after, but I'm sure it was pure carnage.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I have an outstanding ignition switch on the Grand Caravan that I've been ignoring. Now the news is saying that it's been recalled again.

    Maybe if I wait long enough, the third recall will actually be the fix and I won't have to cool my heels around the waiting room an extra three hours for the first two "repairs".

    Meanwhile, a press request:

    If you or your child recently took a driver's education course online, please email PR@edmunds.com by Friday, March 13, 2015 to tell a reporter what it was like.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2015
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Maybe this isn't such a bad thing after so many years of "easy" on enforcement. Have to think some of that attitude emboldened VW here.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2015
    Good article on the Pinto and car safety from the New Yorker.

    "Last August, the traffic-safety expert Leonard Evans published a paper in the American Journal of Public Health. In the early nineteen-seventies, Evans wrote, the United States was often said to have the safest roads in the world, and since then traffic fatalities in the U.S. have declined by forty-one per cent. That sounds like an impressive number.

    But then Evans pointed out that, in the same period, traffic deaths in the Netherlands, for instance, declined at twice that rate. The United States, once No. 1 in the world in safety, has fallen to nineteenth place. If American highway deaths had followed the European pattern, Evans concluded, twenty thousand lives would have been saved in 2011 alone."

  • slorenzenslorenzen Member Posts: 694
    stever said:

    Good article on the Pinto and car safety from the New Yorker.

    "Last August, the traffic-safety expert Leonard Evans published a paper in the American Journal of Public Health. In the early nineteen-seventies, Evans wrote, the United States was often said to have the safest roads in the world, and since then traffic fatalities in the U.S. have declined by forty-one per cent. That sounds like an impressive number.

    But then Evans pointed out that, in the same period, traffic deaths in the Netherlands, for instance, declined at twice that rate. The United States, once No. 1 in the world in safety, has fallen to nineteenth place. If American highway deaths had followed the European pattern, Evans concluded, twenty thousand lives would have been saved in 2011 alone."

    I wonder what the US numbers would be if people stayed off their phones.

    No talking.

    No texting.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    A good way to compare is deaths per billion passenger-km:
    Japan 8.3
    New Zealand 8.3
    Belgium 7.7
    Slovenia 7.6
    Spain 7.6
    United States 7.6
    Austria 6.9
    France 6.3
    Canada 6.1
    Australia 5.6
    Israel 5.2
    Germany 4.9
    Malta 4.9
    Netherlands 4.9
    Switzerland 4.9
    Finland 4.7
    United Kingdom 4.3
    Iceland 3.8
    Sweden 3.7
    Denmark 3.4
    Norway 3.3
    So the US is better than some, worse than others, not surprising given our lax licensing and often poor roads.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    Distracted drivers, buy your way to a license standards, lax drunk driving laws, and poor infrastructure likely do most of that.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    fintail said:

    Distracted drivers, buy your way to a license standards, lax drunk driving laws, and poor infrastructure likely do most of that.

    You mean US speed limits are not too high and the speed kills crowd is wrong? Seems to me some on these forums would argue we go in the wrong direction with speed limits despite Germany's strong showing on the above chart.

    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    But but but...speed kills! Think of the children! Think of tenured secure positions and pensions! Oops, that wasn't supposed to get out, forget that.

    There are definitely a few here who likely think 55 was more than fast enough, thank you very much.
    andres3 said:



    You mean US speed limits are not too high and the speed kills crowd is wrong? Seems to me some on these forums would argue we go in the wrong direction with speed limits despite Germany's strong showing on the above chart.

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Ironically, I think what the 55 speed rule really ended up accomplishing was giving the public a lack of trust in posted speed limits and therefore leading to more frequent speed limit violations. Government, business - any bureaucracy really, seldom thinks things through beyond the tip of their nose! Short term tactics, no real strategy. Besides, if anyone in the organization dare bring those kind of points up, they'd quickly get their loyalty to the organization questioned, rather than encourage some deeper thinking.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A reporter is looking to get in touch with car owners who are waiting for replacement parts, etc. for their faulty Takata air bags. If you're an affected owner and you'd like to help, please reach out to pr@edmunds.com by no later than Monday, November 9, 2015.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Hmmm...now why would New Zealand and Australia have such radically different rates? How odd.

    The reason the USA only has a mediocre rating is probably due to many complexities interacting, of which culture cannot be denied as a major player. As for Japan, anyone who has lived in Alaska knows that their climbers have had a pretty high fatality rate in the past. Is the samurai spirit still alive, deep in the psyche somewhere? Who knows.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hitting sheep in New Zealand must be deadlier than hitting 'roos in Australia.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    “For over half a century the automobile has brought death, injury and the most inestimable sorrow and deprivation to millions of people.”

    50 Years Ago, ‘Unsafe at Any Speed’ Shook the Auto World (NY Times)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Ironically, I think compacts were fading for Intermediates by then anyway.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Still, you can't argue with the enormous drop in automobile fatalities per miles driven since the book was published.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Tucker lives.

    "Automakers looking to earn top safety ratings are peering around the corner to prepare for the next directive from the industry’s de facto safety standard setter.

    This time, it will involve headlights.

    If all goes well...a good performance on the headlight assessment will become a requirement for a vehicle to earn the institute’s highest safety rating, Top Safety Pick+, as early as 2017."

    Insurance Institute trains its sights on headlights (autonews.com)
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    I'd rather they put more emphasis on visibility, many modern cars have terrible visibility to the rear.
  • agentorangeagentorange Member Posts: 893
    edited November 2015
    stever said:

    Tucker lives.

    "Automakers looking to earn top safety ratings are peering around the corner to prepare for the next directive from the industry’s de facto safety standard setter.

    This time, it will involve headlights.

    If all goes well...a good performance on the headlight assessment will become a requirement for a vehicle to earn the institute’s highest safety rating, Top Safety Pick+, as early as 2017."

    Insurance Institute trains its sights on headlights (autonews.com)

    It's about time. The USDoT wouldn't know a good headlight pattern if it fell on them. When I moved to the US in 1997 I was appalled at how far behind the US was in headlight performance compared to Europe. New cars with transverse filament sealed beams? I think they went away in the UK in about 1975. Small wonder the US came up with airbags first, a necessity when you cannot see where you are going.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312


    It's about time. The USDoT wouldn't know a good headlight pattern if it fell on them. When I moved to the US in 1997 I was appalled at how far behind the US was in headlight performance compared to Europe. New cars with transverse filament sealed beams? I think they went away in the UK in about 1975. Small wonder the US came up with airbags first, a necessity when you cannot see where you are going.

    I agree 100%. Back in the '70s and '80s every car I bought was almost immediately fitted with a set of Cibie headlamps. I even installed a set of Hella E Codes on my 1999 Jeep Wrangler- and as a result it has better lighting than a majority of new cars.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • slorenzenslorenzen Member Posts: 694


    It's about time. The USDoT wouldn't know a good headlight pattern if it fell on them. When I moved to the US in 1997 I was appalled at how far behind the US was in headlight performance compared to Europe. New cars with transverse filament sealed beams? I think they went away in the UK in about 1975. Small wonder the US came up with airbags first, a necessity when you cannot see where you are going.

    I agree 100%. Back in the '70s and '80s every car I bought was almost immediately fitted with a set of Cibie headlamps. I even installed a set of Hella E Codes on my 1999 Jeep Wrangler- and as a result it has better lighting than a majority of new cars.

    I was using the SilverStar halogens in my car, but they burn out after about 2 years. I found HID adaptation from a company on line for less than the replacement Silverstars.

    VERY happy with them. Check it out if interested.

    http://ddmtuning.com/
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I'd rather they put more emphasis on visibility, many modern cars have terrible visibility to the rear.

    Texases, you're thinking common sense. That doesn't seem to happen anymore in gov, universities or engineering. Complicated things bring in more money.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I wonder how many people would "opt-out" of mandated safety systems if it meant saving 25% or more on the car.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I'm guessing - Most!
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Not me. Death rates today are a fraction (1/10th) what they were in the '60s. I'm happy to pay for that.
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    I like ABS- and parking sensors on something with bad rear visibility, but I'd gladly forego all the stability/lane departure/blind spot nannies. Give me three pedals and a 25% locking diff and I'm good to go...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    texases said:

    A good way to compare is deaths per billion passenger-km:
    Japan 8.3
    New Zealand 8.3
    Belgium 7.7
    Slovenia 7.6
    Spain 7.6
    United States 7.6
    Austria 6.9
    France 6.3
    Canada 6.1
    Australia 5.6
    Israel 5.2
    Germany 4.9
    Malta 4.9
    Netherlands 4.9
    Switzerland 4.9
    Finland 4.7
    United Kingdom 4.3
    Iceland 3.8
    Sweden 3.7
    Denmark 3.4
    Norway 3.3
    So the US is better than some, worse than others, not surprising given our lax licensing and often poor roads.

    Italy is missing from the ranking. Hmmm, maybe they don't count kms. driven on sidewalks, alleys and shoulders!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    I'll keep the airbags, ABS, ESP etc - it helps in emergencies when dodging the lowest common denominator being allowed on the road.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited January 2016
    Italian death rate per 100,000 inhabitants per year is way better than the USA. About the same as Canada. Italians are very good drivers--they just cut it real close but they know what they're doing. I spent a month driving there recently and I was duly impressed with their skill. And no road rage--zip, zero, did I observe. Now PARKING, that's a different story.

    I'm with roadburner--all I need is seat belts, air bags, ABS and a locking diff. A rear view camera on a small car like mine isn't necessary. I truly loathe all the other safety nannies. I bet someday we'll calculate that they cause as many accidents as they prevent, due to increasing the confidence of drivers who shouldn't have any.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    edited January 2016
    I noticed the same in Italy. It was insane, with rules made up on the spot and things like stop lights and turn lanes taken as suggestions, but I saw no crashes, no close calls. Horns are used to communicate, so it would probably offend some wimpy PNWers. I remember being nervous to drive that X5 through morning rush hour in Torino, but I had no real problems. Just pay attention, drive with a little bravery, and others will see you. A lot less phone use there too.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    Take a drive in Naples - EXCITING!

    Death rate/person in the US is about 10, in Italy about 6. But no info on rate/km, US drives a lot more.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The only reason they don't drive on the sidewalks in Italy is because that's where everyone parks their cars.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    True, but the rate is per 100,000 miles, so there's no reason to presume that driving at a 5X the distance rate of the Italians would change things very much, is there?

    Naples, Palermo---tough cities to drive in. You have to be really focused. It reminded me of being projected into a video game or a pinball machine.
    texases said:

    Take a drive in Naples - EXCITING!

    Death rate/person in the US is about 10, in Italy about 6. But no info on rate/km, US drives a lot more.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    No, the rate is per 100,000 people. There isn't data available for Italy for deaths per billion km, like that in the table I posted.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    This stat strikes me as pretty remarkable.

    "The company, which actually has one vehicle – the Volvo XC90 – in which no one in the U.S. has died in in at least four years"

    Volvo Says It Will Have A Death-Proof Car By 2020
    (Consumerist)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,096
    I wonder how that stat is for similar upmarket barges - GL, Landcruiser, LX, etc.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, we'd have to know how many accidents occurred, how many cumulative miles, that sort of thing. Probably nobody has died in a Tesla either. OH wait that's not true. A Tesla drove off a cliff on the Pacific Highway here in Sonoma County. Personally, that's not an accident I'd want to chance even in a Volvo XC90.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Yes, going off a cliff into an inescapable body of water, might be preferable to die from the collision rather than from drowning in the death-proof (from collision), but not waterproof XC90.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    In the cold waters off Calfornia's northern coast, even if you survived the plunge, in that water you'd be unconscious pretty soon. The idea of a "death proof" car is pretty arrogant if you ask me.
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