Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

ab348 · January 2015

akirby said:
Ford has said specifically that Lincoln was profitable at least 3 years ago.

They were probably selling a lot of Town Cars 3 years ago. Those were the standard for livery service. That business has been given away.

akirby · January 2015

I don't know why that's so hard to believe, given how little they've had to spend on platform development.

[Deleted User] · January 2015

I don't know, Alan, why you are so defensive that you fail to see where those of us do recognize the strides that Lincoln has made. Instead, you put so much effort into bashing Cadillac and assume that we are all behind Cadillac's program. I tried to take a balanced approach here. I may be completely wrong and some of my opinions and I recognize that. I simply do not understand why you put so much energy into finding any nitpick with Lincoln on this site and then telling us why that opinion is completely wrong. In addition, like an earlier poster, I am tired of this discussion always coming down to Cadillac vs Lincoln. I seriously doubt you know the real score about how much profitability Lincoln is seeing right now and whether Cadillac is profitable or not. Can we get beyond that? Thank you in advance.

akirby · January 2015

Sorry, but it irritates me when people praise one brand and bash another one (not you necessarily) based on how much they like or don't like the products without taking into account business practices that may or may not be sustainable.

If nobody else brings it up then I won't either.

jae5 · February 2015

it irritates me when people praise one brand and bash another one based on how much they like or don't like the products without taking into account business practices that may or may not be sustainable.

akirby · February 2015

If a company or brand builds vehicles that enthusiasts love but that they can't sell at sufficient volume or profit margin such that the company makes money then they go out of business and nobody can buy their vehicles.

It's akin to praising a Pizza parlor who decides to sell pizzas for $1 each. It sounds great today but they'll be out of business in a month.

Lincoln is building vehicles that are not sexy but which can be sold in reasonable volumes with high profit margins which will yield profits that will allow Lincoln to eventually add more niche vehicles that enthusiasts want.

akirby · February 2015

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-gms-barra-faces-roadblocks-rebuilding-cadillac-brand-060601518--finance.html

Mr_Shiftright · February 2015

I don't see Lincoln and Cadillac as having the same historical obstacles. Lincoln became anonymous; Cadillac became notorious.

berri · February 2015

Interesting perspective!

akirby · February 2015

Lincoln is rolling out their black label dealerships with 32 initial dealerships.

Black Label customers are treated to an exceptionally comprehensive ownership package. A four-year/50,000-mile free-maintenance program is included—as is becoming the norm in luxury circles—but it goes beyond oil changes and other mundane work and covers wear items like shocks, belts and hoses, brake pads, wiper blades, and spark plugs. Owners may choose to drop off their Lincoln for service or have it picked up from their home or office; either way, a free loaner is provided and, in the case of the pickup service, left in place of the owner’s vehicle. Other perks include an annual full interior/exterior detail job, unlimited “anytime” car washes at any Lincoln dealer, and a “Culinary Collection” membership, which offers access to a curated list of restaurants nationwide.

akirby · March 2015

2017 Lincoln Continental Concept. Looks to be CD4 based (Transverse AWD) with a 3.0L EB that should be good for at least 400 hp. It has all the luxury features you'd expect and the looks to go with it. The new CD6 vehicles are probably 2 years away (RWD/AWD). This one and the new Taurus on the same platform will be sold in China.

akirby · March 2015

And this is the MKS replacement.

brucelinc · March 2015

I am very impressed with the look. Building it on an existing platform will make it more affordable so I am good with that - especially if it gets the improved AWD system. I am sure that many of the concept features will not make production but this looks like a potential game-changer for Lincoln.

I was hoping the 3.5 ecoboost would be available - either a retuned version of the current one or a version of the one in the GT. They can make good power with a 3 liter but it will require more boost to do it. The nice thing about a bit more displacement is that you can get reasonable performance without using the boost and get good real world fuel economy.

In any case, it appears that the production version of this car will look very nice in my garage.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2015

Nifty little tribute to the old "continental" badge on the front grille.

cdnpinhead · March 2015

If this is the future of wheels and tires, I can't run away fast enough.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2015

Well that's a "concept car" kind of thing---stage bling. It'll never be produced with those kiddie wheels.

cdnpinhead said:
If this is the future of wheels and tires, I can't run away fast enough.

[Deleted User] · March 2015

Really nice effort, especially for a FWD/AWD platform. Elegant and restrained. Of course, this means Lincoln is throwing in the towel now on the split wing grill, now that it has managed to spread it across the entire line--and modify it to the point where it is actually attractive (MKC). It also seems to signal that the MK_ naming scheme is destined for the trash heap. Never mind. Adnitting error and moving ahead, and better late than never!

The new face of Lincoln rises...again. From the waterfall to the split wing to the quasi-Bentley-Jaguar-Kia-esque grill here. I like it. In sum, it is its own look. The tail lights are awesome and unique. I hope they translate to production. The interior stands apart from others. And the blown 3.0 liter is in keeping with the competition from Maserati, Jaguar, Audi, BMW...and the Cadillac CT6. Let the comparison tests begin in a year!

berri · March 2015

I think it's maybe a good idea to style your flagship a little unique. Now maybe they can add a coupe spin-off to get some more customer attention for Lincoln. But those bling wheels...

akirby · March 2015

I think the coupe will come from CD6 or mustang platform.

I think the change in grill styling may explain the management changes with Wolf a year or two ago. I think they changed directions.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2015

Apparently from what I read the designers were floundering badly on designed an upscale Lincoln, and then they were presented with the idea of creating a new "Continental", and this inspired them to greater effort.

[Deleted User] · March 2015

Yes, I read that too. Now, if they begin removing the MK_ stuff, "Mark" might again be available for future inspiration of another vehicle. Heck, even "Town Car" might eventually be available on something other than that baleen leviathan mutant freak MKT.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2015

I dunno...terms like "town car" and "continental" seem so anachronistic in 2015 don't they? These terms were once used to conjure up a lifestyle but now everybody goes to town or to "the continent" (which used to mean Europe).

stever · March 2015

Yes and MKC makes me want to fiberglass something together.

In other news Dodge is bringing back their subcompact and updating the name to something more modern. May I present the 2016 Dodge LED?

[Deleted User] · April 2015

This Continental concept gives me more hope for the brand than I have had in a long time. It is beautiful and restrained at the same time. It introduces a new-sized, powerful engine that will likely be standard for this class and above. Jaguar, Audi, Maserati, Mercedes, Land Rover, and BMW among others already use 3,0 liter engines between 300 and 400 hp to power even their largest cars. Audi and Bentley have successfully used AWD, based on front drive, to produce some very desirable cars. The Continental is a full flip-flop from the dull and dowdy MKS. Bring it on. BTW, I have always liked the split wing grill, but on seeing the Continental's grill, the other Lincolns now look somehow lesser. I hope that the MKZ update will install a grill more like the Continental's.

akirby · April 2015

Bentley is none too happy about the Lincoln Continental. In addition to sharing the name (Ford owns it) the overall design is very similar, especially from a 3/4 front shot. Can't say I blame them.

[Deleted User] · April 2015

AFAIAC, Bentley can suck it. Lincoln has done a better job drawing a high end luxury car's lines than even Bentley did with the Flying Spur. IMHO, the Continental's headlights and grill are superior, the chamfering on the sides and rear is much better, as well as the rear styling in general. I like the Flying Spur, but the rear end almost looks like an afterthought.

Styling genres come and go. Chrysler was accused of adopting a Bentley look with the 300, but the 300 is its own car. I'm sure people will see "Bentley" in the new Hyundai Equus coming next year. Cars currently in style and making use of current styling idioms tend to look similar from some angles. Ford and Subaru and Hyundai all have certain models now where you could almost interchange one grill among them.

In any event, even though the CT6 and 2017 Continental won't be exactly direct competitors, stood together, the Continental will be more visually desirable. How the rest shakes out, we will have to wait and see.

akirby · April 2015

The real question is whether the Continental has an Audi like longitudinal engine FWD/AWD drivetrain (the rumored CD6 platform). That's what the Bentley uses and that's why it looks more like a FWD vehicle at the front wheels.

But you have to wonder if Ford is thumbing their nose at Bentley on purpose. There is no way the design similarities were unknown. Maybe Ford is tired of them using the Continental name.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2015

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all.

stever · April 2015

"the Lincoln Navigator, refreshed this year with a new grille and LED running lights, is up 84%."

Seismic shift in the luxury car market: trucks! (Fortune)

[Deleted User] · April 2015

Yes, Navigator is doing better, but interestingly is outsold by the more expensive Range Rover, as well as the Mercedes GL. Gas prices have helped most of them recover sales. Navigator would do so much better if it weren't simply warmed over. The new one coming should re-establish a real rivalry with Escalade.

berri · April 2015

GM owns the big SUV market. I wonder if Fomoco will go aluminum with the next Expedition and Navigator in order to try to differentiate their vehicles? I don't think turbo's are going to do it alone.

edward53 · June 2015

It's the best looking Ford Taurus in quite a while.

akirby · November 2015

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/11/18/2017-lincoln-mkz-400-hp-official/#slide-3708288

New grille, 400 hp, torque vectoring AWD with Lincoln Drive Control. Upgraded interior including new Black Label models and a Revel audio system.

Not bad for a mid cycle refresh.

[Deleted User] · November 2015

It's very good for a refresh. Makes way for the Continental and establishes an elegant family look. Ford has done a lot with a little here. The 3.0 liter is a great addition. I do hope they continue to improve the 2.0 liter. I don't see why the Lincoln has to be so much slower than the Audi A4 and A6 2.0 liters, and the BMW 328 and 528 (and 2.0 liter CTS). But they are getting there. The MKC has helped a lot, and once the aluminum Nav appears, the Escalade and GL and Land Rover will have real competition.

akirby · November 2015

I think the current MKZ has the old 2.0LEB. The new one has a twin scroll turbo and other improvements so it should be better. I think the old one was also tuned for max fuel economy (which still wasn't great).

Keeping the hybrid was smart. Should compete well with the Audi Lexus crowd.

berri · November 2015

How is Lincoln going to fix the big depreciation penalty v Audi and Lexus?

[Deleted User] · November 2015

I don't think that is a real issue. As long as Lincoln has good product. That will work itself out and rather quickly.

akirby · November 2015

I think you'll find MKZ leases cheaper than a comparably equipped Audi or Lexus.

akirby · November 2015

Which is the real depreciation test.

berri · November 2015

I guess it depends on rebates and incentives.

I like the new front end better than the previous one. I think the MKZ does present a nice, unique style and will be interested in how the traditional American luxury approach works out. I like a smooth, quiet ride and I think many others do too, but may be afraid to admit it sometimes. Seems like many think it has to be Teutonic to be luxury these days unless it's a Lexus. Cadillac seems to be playing in that lane, but it may be an uphill battle going against the German's on that highway.

akirby · November 2015

I ran some quick comparisons:

Loaded MKZ - MSRP $47K 36 month lease with $4700 down 15K miles - $441/month

Base Lexus GS MSRP $49K same terms and down payment - $674/month

Base Lexus ES MSRP $39K same terms but $1200 down - $560/month

I assume Audi and BMW would be similar. Most depreciation reports go by MSRP and not by actual selling price which results in apples and oranges sometimes.

Michaell · November 2015

akirby said:
I ran some quick comparisons:

Loaded MKZ - MSRP $47K 36 month lease with $4700 down 15K miles - $441/month

Base Lexus GS MSRP $49K same terms and down payment - $674/month

Base Lexus ES MSRP $39K same terms but $1200 down - $560/month

I assume Audi and BMW would be similar. Most depreciation reports go by MSRP and not by actual selling price which results in apples and oranges sometimes.

Residual value is always calculated against the MSRP - however, the bigger the discount you get from sticker, the better it will be for the lease payment.

However, many manufacturers will artificially inflate the residual to make the lease payment manageable. Has nothing to do with the actual value of the car at the end of the lease.

I've seen folks get the GS for ~$500/mo recently, as there is $4500 incentive cash available, along with substantial discounts from sticker.

akirby · November 2015

I was just responding to the notion that depreciation was worse on the MKZ. Regardless of how they calculate the selling price and residual value, you're always paying true depreciation on a lease. If the leasor overestimates the residual value they lose that when the vehicle is turned back in.

And if Lexus has incentives they should be including those on their website payment calculator like Lincoln.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2015

I could see someone cross shopping a Lexus and a Lincoln---not so much against an Audi or BMW though.

cdnpinhead · November 2015

Ya think?

Michaell · November 2015

akirby said:

I was just responding to the notion that depreciation was worse on the MKZ. Regardless of how they calculate the selling price and residual value, you're always paying true depreciation on a lease. If the leasor overestimates the residual value they lose that when the vehicle is turned back in. And if Lexus has incentives they should be including those on their website payment calculator like Lincoln.

And my point is that you cannot look at the depreciation numbers in a lease to tell you the "true" depreciation. And if the true value of the vehicle is less then the calculated depreciation for the lease, the bank or finance company usually has an insurance policy in place to cover the difference

akirby · November 2015

You can't stay in business overestimating residuals on every vehicle.

fintail · November 2015

I thought subsidized leases were how the Germans made their sales numbers - probably viable due to the huge margins on the cars.

My MKZ leasing friend (late 30s) is generally pleased with the car, and there's a chance he'll go with Lincoln again - he's interested in the Continental. So there might be some hope, as his demographic is what the company likely wants.

Mr_Shiftright · November 2015

The 2017 MKZ looks impressive---the AWD version will put out 400HP with torque-vectoring as well, and this powerplant will be an exclusive to Lincoln.

jpp75 · November 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
The 2017 MKZ looks impressive---the AWD version will put out 400HP with torque-vectoring as well, and this powerplant will be an exclusive to Lincoln.

I'm impressed by the MKZ refresh and interested to see the Continental live and in person. The engines and styling seem to be the right ingredients. Time will tell if quality and customer experience match.

Where Is Ford taking the Lincoln Motor Company?

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles