Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

suydam · April 2015

Thanks fo the impressions of CUVs. It's irritating that the Mazda CX3 is nowhere in evidence so far at these shows. I wonder what all of them will actually sell for in the real world. I bought my Encore in a mid level trim for $10k less than the sticker of the one you looked at, and I think its MSRP was $27k. Base level is 24k at my local dealer. If it works out similarly to the Fit introductory year I do think that the Honda will be hard to find for any discount. Maybe the CX3 as well. But the others should be less than sticker price.

Michaell · April 2015

suydam said:
Thanks fo the impressions of CUVs. It's irritating that the Mazda CX3 is nowhere in evidence so far at these shows. I wonder what all of them will actually sell for in the real world. I bought my Encore in a mid level trim for $10k less than the sticker of the one you looked at, and I think its MSRP was $27k. Base level is 24k at my local dealer. If it works out similarly to the Fit introductory year I do think that the Honda will be hard to find for any discount. Maybe the CX3 as well. But the others should be less than sticker price.

Both the CX-3 and the HR-V will be released this spring or summer, so by the time I'll be in the market in the Fall of 2016, I'm hoping the "gotta have it" factor will have worn off and decent deals will be available.

And yes, I expect transaction prices on the Trax and Encore to be substantially lower than sticker than on some of the other models. The lease rates will also drive my decision as well.

Of course, all of this is speculation as I haven't driven any of these yet ... but I've got lots of time to do so.

stever · April 2015

$27k with a bunch of bells and whistles. Cheap.

I'm interested in seeing the HR-V too, but my wife isn't much of a Honda fan. Thanks!

nyccarguy · April 2015

I think I posted something here yesterday afternoon that never showed up

kyfdx · April 2015

nyccarguy said:
I think I posted something here yesterday afternoon that never showed up

We have a new Post Quality Monitor that automatically deletes posts that aren't up to our high standards.

stever · April 2015

Maybe it was this one - CCBA and Buying and Selling run together for me all the time.

Please keep posting (or email us) about glitches like these. Sometimes they are harbingers of something "bigger" going on, like server issues.

rayainsw · April 2015

Wait - there are standards here ?????

kyfdx · April 2015

rayainsw said:
Wait - there are standards here ?????

Well.. you know.. just having some fun.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2015

FROM 24/7 WALL ST: Top Ten Cars Nobody Wants to Buy

This list is excerpted from a list compiled to show the Top Ten cars that stay the longest in inventory before being sold.

Comments?

10. Cadillac ATS days in delivery 138.1

9. Kia Cadenza 138.8

8. Volvo XC90 139.5

7. Fiat 500L 140.1

6. Cadillac XTS 144.6

5.Buick Verano 144.7

4. Infinit Q60 158.3

3.Cadillac ELR 158.6

2. Nissan GT-R 169.9

1. Honda Insight 170.7

qbrozen · April 2015

how recent is that? Is the new XC90 on the lots yet? Or are those the old ones still sitting around? Honestly, the only thing on that list that surprises me otherwise is the ATS.

suydam · April 2015

As one of the least expensive Buicks, the Verano sells pretty well here in the Midwest.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2015

The story was recent but the stats are I think from late 2014. The XC90 was still struggling badly as of March 2015 but the new XC only hit the showrooms around then, so I don't know if the 2015 is included in those (rather awful) stats.

I don't think the ATS is doing all that well. While most car mags love the car they don't love the CUE system very much. I haven't tried it myself so can't comment.

stickguy · April 2015

That has to be the old XC90. New one barely arriving.

ab348 · April 2015

The criticism of CUE is silly. It works fine and really, most of the time you never need to interact with it at all. The ATS is a hoot to drive. The issue is that if you need to carry more than a single passenger it is very tight, and it has a smallish trunk. I suspect the slow sales are due to overly optimistic pricing and a dealer network that doesn't know how to sell the car. As for CUE, reviewers claim intermittent functionality, for what that's worth. It doesn't seem to respond accurately for them at least.

Mr_Shiftright · April 2015

Yes I agree AB---I was reading one article that sort of backs up your observation--it was titled something like "Why Cadillac can't sell a great car" (I think it was in Forbes).

@ stickguy -- yeah, must be the old XC90, because the old one was really dead in the water.

stickguy · April 2015

I looked at those back in 2004 before we bought our Odyssey. And the 2014 was barely updated. So long in the tooth was an understatement.

nyccarguy · April 2015

@qbrozen - I don't hear you mentioning the fit too much anymore. How is it going from your 400 something horsepower CTS V sport to the fit?

Sandman6472 · April 2015

Looking back at the last almost 5 months ownership of my VW Golf, can truly say there really is nothing else I'd rather have and know I made the right decision. First time I ever traded a vehicle with just a bit over a year of ownership and though financially it wasn't the smartest move I ever made, logically it was the best decision I've made in a long while. I think always being an economy car driver played a big role in my wanted to do something totally different and the idea of sitting a bit above other traffic became very appealing. I tend to shop, and shop...and shop whenever I buy something just to make sure I try everything out there not once, but a few times. This process tends to take either weeks or months usually and think I finally got to the saturation point back in November of 2013 when I purchased the Tucson. Very good vehicle but it just didn't meet my expectations at the time and I knew within a few weeks that this was not going to be a long term vehicle for me.
With the Golf, it took in total about 5 days to pull the trigger over a 2 week time frame. Once I drove the wife's Audi, I just knew I hit it but having a smaller budget, VW was the logical choice. I fully intended on going with the Jetta, the same model as Stick's kid got, in the blue over ivory color. I was ready but it failed the all important garage test...it was doable but it would've been a bit tight and figured I'd try the new Golf to see if it would be a good alternative which turns out, it was. It is a small vehicle and passed the garage test with ease. I knew on that Monday evening that I would buy but falling into old habits, decided to think just a bit more. By Wednesday though I said enough and made the decision to go in Thursday and see if we could make a deal. Once they agreed to the alloy wheel switch and then met me at a fair price for both, I just did it and have not looked back yet. Totally out of character but totally satisfied...end of story!

_The Sandman

nyccarguy · April 2015

I've been thinking about our chronic car buying habits on the way home. Now each one of us can find a reason to sell or trade or car any car in our fleet and buy new one (like the fact that it's Wednesday for instance). I feel like if you can get past a certain amount time with a car, you learn to live with it. Personally I feel If I can get past three years that, I've really got to make up an excuse to get rid of it or find something I really really want. Next month our pilot will officially be four years old. It serves our family very well. But the maybe 13K per year we put on it doesn't justify (financially) trading it in and dropping another (almost) $40K on a new 3 row SUV. I think the fact that is almost paid off has a lot to do with it.

Now I really like my Subaru. Currently there's nothing on the market that I absolutely must have. However if something comes out in the next couple years that addresses the legacies power deficiencies what to turbocharge model or an all-wheel-drive Mazda speed three I might change my mind

qbrozen · April 2015

nyccarguy said:
@qbrozen - I don't hear you mentioning the fit too much anymore. How is it going from your 400 something horsepower CTS V sport to the fit?

Ha. Well, I have to keep reminding myself I'm getting double the mileage when I'm driving it.

At least my new iphone 6+ seems to have solved the connectivity issues I was having in both cars.

stickguy · April 2015

I know I am out for a while. The RDX is going to be around a long time, and I am only 5 months into a 36 month lease on the Hyundai. The only wildcard is the Volvo (how long will that last in the commuting to college duty?)

I actually never originally intended to send a car to school this year, or the Volvo at all. But at this point, we may just see how it goes. At least until I pay off the Acura! May do that at the end of the summer (selling the Volvo to do it) and leasing something cheap on a blowout clearance. But only if the Volvo does something over the summer to justify it.

stickguy · April 2015

I will say that I am super excited for when I finally get to start looking. That will start in earnest at the February, 2017 Philly auto show. Then months of analysis and discussion. Quite possibly a divorce after my wife can't take it any longer. Then a summer of test drives. Fun!

big decision though will be who gets it. Might move to something that will be the new family/travel car (AKA the wife's wheels), with me taking the by then 5 YO RDX off her hands. But, we shall see.

roadburner · April 2015

nyccarguy said:
I've been thinking about our chronic car buying habits on the way home. Now each one of us can find a reason to sell or trade or car any car in our fleet and buy new one (like the fact that it's Wednesday for instance). I feel like if you can get past a certain amount time with a car, you learn to live with it. Personally I feel If I can get past three years that, I've really got to make up an excuse to get rid of it or find something I really really want. Next month our pilot will officially be four years old. It serves our family very well. But the maybe 13K per year we put on it doesn't justify (financially) trading it in and dropping another (almost) $40K on a new 3 row SUV. I think the fact that is almost paid off has a lot to do with it.

Now I really like my Subaru. Currently there's nothing on the market that I absolutely must have. However if something comes out in the next couple years that addresses the legacies power deficiencies what to turbocharge model or an all-wheel-drive Mazda speed three I might change my mind

On Tuesday I had the opportunity to drive the MS3 on some fairly tricky back roads- all in a steady rain. Since I boosted the power and tweaked the suspension the car needs to be driven in a very precise manner if one wants to really exploit its capabilities, but wow- when you get it right the thing is just astonishingly fast from point to point.
I'm thinking Focus RS, 2016 MS3, or Golf R when I finally do replace it.
Power corrupts; some is good, more is better, and too much is just enough...

nyccarguy · April 2015

@roadburner - on the ELLPS board, @qbrozen mentioned the drastic power drop off with his former N55 powered 135i. My Prelude is far from the fastest car from a dead stop, but once it gets going, there is literally zero power drop off. Like your 318ti, you've got to keep the engine on full boil (torque peaks at 5250 RPM). I love just blasting onto the highway while rowing through the gears.

stickguy · April 2015

Old school Bradd. Old school. now it is all about having 2x as much power as you need or can use, and letting the computer do all the work.

qbrozen · April 2015

nyccarguy said:
@roadburner - on the ELLPS board, @qbrozen mentioned the drastic power drop off with his former N55 powered 135i. My Prelude is far from the fastest car from a dead stop, but once it gets going, there is literally zero power drop off. Like your 318ti, you've got to keep the engine on full boil (torque peaks at 5250 RPM). I love just blasting onto the highway while rowing through the gears.

actually, I had the N54.

nyccarguy · April 2015

Yes you did. What year was your 1? an '09 or a '10?

Michaell · April 2015

stickguy said:
I will say that I am super excited for when I finally get to start looking. That will start in earnest at the February, 2017 Philly auto show. Then months of analysis and discussion. Quite possibly a divorce after my wife can't take it any longer. Then a summer of test drives. Fun!

big decision though will be who gets it. Might move to something that will be the new family/travel car (AKA the wife's wheels), with me taking the by then 5 YO RDX off her hands. But, we shall see.

I'm a year ahead of you, stick. My lease ends in November 2016 and I'm already lining up the potential candidates to replace the E-GT.

Unlike many of you that are going bigger, fancier and more powerful, I'm channeling my inner Puritan and keeping things small and simple - though I suspect I'll still be in the ballpark of $25K or so.

Have stopped by one local dealer to get a close up look at both the Chevy Trax and the Jeep Renegade. I've already pestered my wife by showing her pictures of what I'm interested in. Hard to believe a middle-aged woman can roll her eyes like a teenager, but she's pretty much perfected it

Next summer I'll start crunching numbers - vital stats as well as lease information - and begin the test drive process. I think I'll bring my golf clubs with me so I can test the cargo capacity....

roadburner · April 2015

nyccarguy said:
@roadburner - on the ELLPS board, @qbrozen mentioned the drastic power drop off with his former N55 powered 135i. My Prelude is far from the fastest car from a dead stop, but once it gets going, there is literally zero power drop off. Like your 318ti, you've got to keep the engine on full boil (torque peaks at 5250 RPM). I love just blasting onto the highway while rowing through the gears.

Yep, my ti is geared the way the Europeans used to do it- a close ratio 5 speed with a direct(1:1) 5th gear. From 4000-7000 rpm the car is just a hoot.

qbrozen · April 2015

nyccarguy said:
Yes you did. What year was your 1? an '09 or a '10?

'08

You can see it here in the stock curve. The torque drop from 5500rpms to redline is pretty significant, but especially while the HP is also dropping over that same range.

In comparison, check out my Caddy's. When the torque starts dropping faster beyond 5200, the HP holds steady till the end.

I'm not an expert on reading these things, but I'd have to guess that's the difference I'm feeling.

nyccarguy · April 2015

My Prelude also has a direct 1:1 5th gear. Top speed (as stated by the manufacturer, never verified by me) is 147 mph in 5th gear at 7500 RPM (maximum engine speed).

stickguy · April 2015

I recall my Miata was right about 3k rpm at 60. Buzzy little thing. Sadly, my tC with a camry engine was almost that revvy too. Made no real sense and didn't do much for mpg.

breld · April 2015

Michaell said:
Hard to believe a middle-aged woman can roll her eyes like a teenager, but she's pretty much perfected it

Boy, that's hilarious. I imagine that's a skill that women never lose - it may be just dormant until needed.

@nyccarguy - I kinda think something like the Pilot, which is more functional than anything else, is easier to hold on to than a sports sedan or an all-out sporty car. Not that 3 years is a particularly long time, but for us, that was indeed a long time for us to have held on to our Odyssey. Just wasn't all that compelling to get into a new van or 3-row SUV (until we did anyway, with the Kia). Plus, as far as getting past that "certain point" you speak of, it certainly doesn't hurt when the car's paid off. Wife and I were just talking about that last night, that when we finally do pay off our two cars, it may be more difficult to trade out the cars like we have been doing. So far, it's just been swapping out payment for payment (we've always just paid the same monthly amount, no matter the required payment) - but when we don't have a required payment, it may be less compelling.

Michaell · April 2015

breld said:

Michaell said:
Hard to believe a middle-aged woman can roll her eyes like a teenager, but she's pretty much perfected it
Boy, that's hilarious. I imagine that's a skill that women never lose - it may be just dormant until needed.

@nyccarguy - I kinda think something like the Pilot, which is more functional than anything else, is easier to hold on to than a sports sedan or an all-out sporty car. Not that 3 years is a particularly long time, but for us, that was indeed a long time for us to have held on to our Odyssey. Just wasn't all that compelling to get into a new van or 3-row SUV (until we did anyway, with the Kia). Plus, as far as getting past that "certain point" you speak of, it certainly doesn't hurt when the car's paid off. Wife and I were just talking about that last night, that when we finally do pay off our two cars, it may be more difficult to trade out the cars like we have been doing. So far, it's just been swapping out payment for payment (we've always just paid the same monthly amount, no matter the required payment) - but when we don't have a required payment, it may be less compelling.

I hear you on that, breld. We only had one car payment for a while after the ION got paid off. But, when the kids needed a second car, that's when I went out and got the cheap lease on the E-GT and "gifted" the ION to them. Now my sister-in-law, who has never had a license, may finally get one and start driving the ION. But, not my call anymore.

The Mazda for Subaru swap resulted in exactly the same monthly outlay, so that helped the budget. When the lease is up on the E-GT I've got to keep my payment in the same range ($250/mo, give or take) for whatever replaces it.

Isn't the Kia leased? What are your plans when that is up?

stickguy · April 2015

Agree with that breld. Basically like leasing. If you are always having a payment, might as well swap out the car!

Danger of a 5 year Ilan. 3 years in, bored of car, 2 years payments left. Might as well trade it in, and reset clock on a new 5 year loan.

Michaell · April 2015

stickguy said:
Agree with that breld. Basically like leasing. If you are always having a payment, might as well swap out the car!

Danger of a 5 year Ilan. 3 years in, bored of car, 2 years payments left. Might as well trade it in, and reset clock on a new 5 year loan.

Yep, been there, done that.

I hope we're off that roller coaster with the Subaru. Wife really likes it ... hoping we can keep it for 10+ years - and still be worth $10K in trade after that.

First road trip in the Subaru planned for early June. Heading to Sedona, AZ for a week of R&R at a favorite B&B. Golf clubs are coming with.

stever · April 2015

Swing by on your way (although we still intend to get to Chattanooga sometime and June is the next available block of time we have). After I get my last load of junk out of storage there, I'm really, really going to get another car.

Maybe....

xwesx · April 2015

stever said:
Swing by on your way (although we still intend to get to Chattanooga sometime and June is the next available block of time we have). After I get my last load of junk out of storage there, I'm really, really going to get another car.

Maybe....

Hah! Nice pun, Steve.

I definitely agree about the payments. That was a challenging decision to make when we bought the Forester, as we had not had car payments in a few years at that point (other than the 08 Outback, which was a very short-term, calculated purchase). So, it was definitely a shift of thinking, but the wife said, "jump," so there wasn't much choice in it. And, now that I only have a few grand left on my Fiesta, I keep fighting the temptation to just pay it off now rather than letting it play out over the next six months. When that happens, though, it will be quite a lift to, say, get that car I *really* want to get right now.....

breld · April 2015

stickguy said:
Agree with that breld. Basically like leasing. If you are always having a payment, might as well swap out the car!

Danger of a 5 year Ilan. 3 years in, bored of car, 2 years payments left. Might as well trade it in, and reset clock on a new 5 year loan.

Yup - although it's generally more like 1-2 years for the wife and I before we swap out. So we generally have little equity in the car, if any, to go toward the new car, so we're just swapping car payments and extending the term.

With the current budgeted payments, we'll have the GTI paid off in about a year, and the Mazda3 shortly after that. The goal is to stick with that schedule and get out of car debt (other than the Kia lease) - at that point, even if we choose to swap out again (which, let's admit, is likely), at least we should have a fair amount of equity to put toward the new purchase. And it's not like we'd ramp up the cost of the cars - we agreed it's pretty easy to stick within the mid-$30's (if not lower) and get what we want.

qbrozen · April 2015

we just drive too much to ever get out of payments. I've learned to consider it part of the cost of living in rural NJ. Granted, if homes and taxes weren't so damned expensive here.... ugh.

breld · April 2015

Michaell said:

Isn't the Kia leased? What are your plans when that is up?

Yup - 3 year lease that started in December. By the time it's up, I doubt we'll still need a minivan. My stepdaughter will be off at college, so the need for a comfortable 3-row car will be greatly diminished. Still may need the 3rd row, but just on rare occasion - so I could see us switching to an SUV, or get back into having a fun car for the extra car, and taking two cars on those rare occasions. Can we say, new Miata?

breld · April 2015

stickguy said:
Agree with that breld. Basically like leasing. If you are always having a payment, might as well swap out the car!

Danger of a 5 year Ilan. 3 years in, bored of car, 2 years payments left. Might as well trade it in, and reset clock on a new 5 year loan.

Good point - and to be fair, it really is little different than leasing. You're just floating the amount of the residual yourself. Much more flexibility that way than traditional leasing.

Plus, you can "lease" used cars with that approach.

stickguy · April 2015

I still plan on having the RDX for at least 10 years. which means at least 5 without payments (though I still expect to pay it off early).

and hopefully whatever we get when the Sonata goes back is a buy, not a lease. though remains to be seen if it is new or used, and who gets it! Might be another lease though, to free up cash to recover from the last year of college payments.

xwesx · April 2015

stickguy said:
Might be another lease though, to free up cash to recover from the last year of college payments.

And, if choosing between a car and college, the education is likely the better investment, right?

I'm trying to prepay the college years now. That way, when it's time for them to go to school, they get that and anything else is on them. I can wash my hands of it with a clean conscience.

nyccarguy · April 2015

@breld - you hit the nail right on the head. Our pilot is more functional than anything. Mechanically it is in perfect shape.The body has its fair share of small scuffs and scrapes, but nothing major.it is still worth a lot more than we owe on it. After the 3 year (lease it to yourself) mark, I definitely found myself not wanting to reset the 5 year payment clock or get into a leasing cycle. With (almost) 1 year to go to pay it off and only 61K miles on the odometer we are definitely in the home stretch of only having 1 car payment.

kyfdx · April 2015

I paid cash for the last three cars, and my last lease payment went away in September...

And yet, it doesn't seem to have translated to any more cash in the monthly budget.. I think we spend two car payments on eating out, each month.

Sandman6472 · April 2015

I just got my old desktop to work a bit, noisey as hell though, and imported my newer pics from my newer smartphone. I found a pic of my Golf and put it into my thumbnail. Not sure how to make it larger but will play around with it here. I am probably the most tech challenged poster in here, luckily my kids are all tech wizards!
Well, can't seem to do it but if anyone knows how to, please let me know!! thanks.

The Sandman

nyccarguy · April 2015

kyfdx said:
I paid cash for the last three cars, and my last lease payment went away in September...

And yet, it doesn't seem to have translated to any more cash in the monthly budget.. I think we spend two car payments on eating out, each month.

It is funny how that works out. We refinanced our mortgage in March, so April is supposed to be the month where we "skip a payment." I would have had to pay the mortgage payment by tomorrow. I just checked my bank account and I don't see anywhere near what the mortgage payment would have been just sitting there waiting to be transferred into the kitchen renovation fund. I know a big part of that is due to the fact that our life insurance premiums are due in April. I'll know more once my wife's check gets deposited tomorrow.

Michaell · April 2015

nyccarguy said:

kyfdx said:
I paid cash for the last three cars, and my last lease payment went away in September...

And yet, it doesn't seem to have translated to any more cash in the monthly budget.. I think we spend two car payments on eating out, each month.
It is funny how that works out. We refinanced our mortgage in March, so April is supposed to be the month where we "skip a payment." I would have had to pay the mortgage payment by tomorrow. I just checked my bank account and I don't see anywhere near what the mortgage payment would have been just sitting there waiting to be transferred into the kitchen renovation fund. I know a big part of that is due to the fact that our life insurance premiums are due in April. I'll know more once my wife's check gets deposited tomorrow.

I've been meaning to reach out to my mortgage company ... with the appreciation of home values, I'm real close to the tipping point where I can drop the PMI and save a few hundred a month.

Of course, the folks who hold my mortgage want me to refinance and drop PMI - but, the interest rate would be higher than what I've got now. I think I hit the absolute bottom of the market when I last did this - 3.25% for a 30 year fixed.

I'll agree - every time we pay something off or adjust our budget to have more disposable income, that money just seems to disappear.

I just adjusted my 401(K) contribution and my tax withholding status to shrink my paycheck - and, hopefully, help avoid the gigantic check I had to write to the federal government earlier this week.

xwesx · April 2015

kyfdx said:
I think we spend two car payments on eating out, each month.

Yeouch! My family doesn't tend to eat out much, but we've been rather gluttonous this year! We already dined at a restaurant TWICE!

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