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Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Sturdy engine though---the 318 mated to a Torqueflite 8 transmission and Chrysler differential was about the toughest powertrain in the business.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    I had three 318's. At least, I think I did. Not 100% sure about the first, my '68 Dart. When I bought it, the seller said it had a rebuilt 318 in it. However, years later, when I learned how to do a VIN decode, I realized it originally came with a 273-2bbl. So, I don't know if its original 273 had been rebuilt, or a rebuilt 318 was thrown in there. It was pretty strong though. It had a 2.76:1 axle, which is what most of them had.

    The next was my '79 Newport, which had a 135 hp 318 Lean Burn. It was actually quicker than you'd expect. Not as quick off the line as the Dart, but a much better highway cruiser, and it would easily get ~22 mpg or so out on the highway, most likely thanks to the tall 2.45:1 axle. In contrast, the Dart was lucky to hit 17.

    The final was an '89 Gran Fury ex police car, with had a 318-4bbl with 175 hp. It wasn't as quick as the Dart off the line, but better at higher speeds, and could still manage to get about 20 mpg on the highway, despite having a 2.94:1 axle. All three of them seemed to get around 11-13 mpg around town, depending on the heat, weather, etc.

    I wouldn't mind getting a '68-70 intermediate Mopar sometime...something like a Satellite or Coronet. I'd be quite content with a 318...enough power to live with if I wanted to drive it around alot, but not such a guzzler that it would break the bank. Only problem is, at this point it seems like most of those '68-70 intermediates are the musclecars, or clones of them.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,031
    texases said:

    Well, it could have been the 'hottest one on [that dealer's] lot' at that exact time...

    Must have been a small dealer. ;)

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342

    Sturdy engine though---the 318 mated to a Torqueflite 8 transmission and Chrysler differential was about the toughest powertrain in the business.

    I totally agree with you 100%!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    To be fair, since her parents bought her the car as a graduation gift, maybe "hottest one on the lot" really meant "hottest one on the lot in her price range".
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    I just realized...I guess the Mopar smallblock V-8 is the most common engine family I've had, over the years. In addition to my Dart, Newport, and Gran Fury, I also have the two New Yorkers, which have 360-2bbls.

    I guess second runner up would the the Pontiac V-8. Two 400's and a 350. Pontiac didn't really do the big block/small block thing like Chevy, Olds, and Buick did, opting rather for a "medium" block that sufficed for everything. I think the 421, 428, and 455's were a raised deck version, but I'm not positive.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    edited June 2015
    andre1969 said:

    To be fair, since her parents bought her the car as a graduation gift, maybe "hottest one on the lot" really meant "hottest one on the lot in her price range".

    To be even more fair, the car itself is not the cool (or, "hot?") part.... it's the story that's attached to it! Isn't that how it goes with most old cars? B)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,272
    A little Long Island $4,000 challenge

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/cto/5032359636.html Nice looking if you can live with the scrape. I don't know how durable these cars were at this point

    It's interesting these days. Bodies hold up so much better than they used to, so it's tougher to spot something that's end of life. These cars can look really fine from 10 or 20 feet away

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/cto/5021237094.html A bit of charm and the miles are low

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/cto/5038996070.html Be an extra in a B movie

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/5047952830.html First car for a domestic fan?

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/5046901855.html Granpas car with white letter tires

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/5057822236.html Stickshift Camry with moonroof.

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/5057872657.html Dodge Stealth

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/5057670576.html Audi S4

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    gsemike said:

    A little Long Island $4,000 challenge


    That Caprice is cool! I love the throwback photo. :)

    The Camry looks interesting, but a LOT of miles. That Audi is something else, though. What is a Manuel? Is that some special edition package? Or, is this car possessed by Manuel's spirit? I thought maybe a mistype of "Manual" as in transmission type, but that only flies to mislead people *if you don't include a photo of the automatic shifter*. LOL
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    The Roadmaster is the best one of the bunch. Real sleeper.
    S4 Has an 'Manuel' transmission with a PRNDL shift pattern. Must be rare. :)
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762

    The Roadmaster is the best one of the bunch. Real sleeper.

    Yeah, I really liked those (esp the wagon) back in the day. Even now, they just have a simple elegance to them. The last of the land yachts. LOL

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,272

    The Roadmaster is the best one of the bunch. Real sleeper.
    S4 Has an 'Manuel' transmission with a PRNDL shift pattern. Must be rare. :)

    S4 has to be a parts car
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    And a valuable parts car to boot. S4 headlights are $900 each.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,272

    The Roadmaster is the best one of the bunch. Real sleeper.
    S4 Has an 'Manuel' transmission with a PRNDL shift pattern. Must be rare. :)

    S4 has to be a parts car
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    Mustang passed it's last emissions test today. Limit is 25 years and the next one would be in year 26.
    Some poor guy with a Rang Rover flunked. Some code related to evaporative emissions.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Ah, nothing a few thousand dollars wouldn't fix. Now he's ready for his "Croix de Rover" medal for courage.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342

    Mustang passed it's last emissions test today. Limit is 25 years and the next one would be in year 26.
    Some poor guy with a Rang Rover flunked. Some code related to evaporative emissions.

    What? a European car failed emissions? Really?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    shifty, you can sure pick'em.
    I like the per pound pricing, maybe I can get some more off with my grocery store rewards card.
    A Vega with an engine that smokes. Who would have thought? and an extra zero in the price.
    Maybe that Corvair was the mule Porsche used when designing the 930 turbo.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    That Vega has a lot of surface rust, but I can't recall when I've seen an early Vega that hasn't had visible perforation, particular in the front fenders. The panel express model appeals to a fair amount of people I think, but he's still asking way too much. I think he'd get more interest even at $2,500.

    I have noticed over the past few years that when the rare 'regular' Vega comes up on eBay with a solid body and good interior, original paint, etc., it is often bid as much if not more than even Cosworths which are almost always on eBay. Just saying.
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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    I like that '77 Caddy. I've heard that color referred to as "Gonorrhea Green", but I find it attractive. Might not look good on a modern car, but I think most 70's cars wear it well.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    you really have to admire the level of workmanship on that Corvair---I wonder if he used a Snap-On chainsaw? Still, if it ran, it would be the ultimate Rat Rod. However, a Corvair transaxle will disintegrate at about 250 HP.

    A company named Crown Engineering did offer V-8 kits for the 65 on up Corvair. They called it a 'Kit" but you pretty much had to tear the car apart.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,272
    Anyone notice those Corvair pictures are from 2004?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited June 2015
    That's odd---the ad is current. I guess he hasn't had a lot of interest. :p
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    I like those hood pins on the T-Bird. About as needed there as they were on my '72 Duster with the 198 cid 6!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited June 2015
    Well those pins are there in case you have to do a quick engine change at Daytona. They also save weight.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I once saw a 1966 Corvair that had a Chevy 327/350HP installed in it.

    The guy wanted to give me a ride in it and I declined.

    I don't know what kind of a transaxle he had in it.

    Then we had a kid in town with an old VW bug with a Corvair engine. I watched him whip
    a Mustang 289 with it!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    I would want wheelie bars on that bug.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    don't call the seller "crazy" because he already admits it: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/5061877067.html

    It's got a 428 in it---oh, wait, it doesn't. Oh well: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/5014477333.html

    A '55 T-Bird that only needs $75,000 worth of work, and with a truck engine. Could be worth a cool $40K when you're done. How could anyone resist?: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/5006789745.html

    Well yeah if it were a 409, but it's not, so cut your price in half: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/5045276759.html

    Let's see. Missing lots of parts, owner listed on title is dead, and it's rusted. Hard to resist! http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/5033553125.html





  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    Graveyard Carz might not even take on that dog of a Charger.

    and in general, if you can't be bothered to take the tarp off to take pictures, don't expect me to be interested.

    now, I like the Datsun wagon (have never seen one of them before). But to do an oddball resto mod of some sort. A hot modern motor and upgraded suspension? Keep body stock, and make it a sleeper. and yes, I realize that would be a giant flushing of money down the toilet. So someone else should spend a fortune on it, then sell it to me for $.10 on the dollar!

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    Even though I normally go for bigger cars, I think that Datsun is my pick of the bunch, mainly for the obscurity factor. My guess is they're all junkyard fodder though. I dunno...maybe there's enough left of that '67 Mercury wagon to do something with, if you're willing to take on a labor of love?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, since 1961 was the last year for the Chevy 348 engines and the fact they look identical to the 409's maybe it IS a 409!

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Didn't see a picture of the engine---position of the dipstick could tell you--passenger side 409, driver's side 348. Of course, you could change the oil pan.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I don't really know, but I always heard that the 348 was a truck engine that really wasn't all that great in a car. Was the 409 really that great of an engine, or was it more that it was an early big bloc in an affordable relatively light car popularized by a popular Beach Boys song???
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,685
    409 was a bored and stroked 348, so they had a lot in common. The 348 has a number of high output versions, so, while it started out as a truck engine, it put out pretty good power, up to 350 hp.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,272
    The Merc for 1200? Not that crazy
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    Tom McCahill tested a '59 Impala with a 348 with a 3-2bbl carb setup and Turboglide transmission.

    Here's the test: http://www.xframechevy.com/mechanix-illustrated-a-road-test-of-the-1959-chevrolet-impala/

    IMO, it's not very impressive. 0-60 came up in 13.1 seconds. The 348 in the test Impala was rated at 280 hp gross, which seems awfully low to me for an engine of that displacement, especially with the Tri-power setup. For comparison, the 341 in my '57 DeSoto has 270 hp, and that's just with a 2-bbl carb. And even though the Impala was porking up by then, I'd imagine my DeSoto was still a heavier car. Yet I've seen road tests that would put mine at around 9.7 seconds in 0-60.

    I've heard that the TurboGlide transmission was pretty bad. Did it sap a lot of power, maybe? Or perhaps it took too long to upshift, or upshifted too soon?

    McCahill did mention that he tested a '58 Chevy Impala and 0-60 was 10.4 seconds. Doesn't mention which engine or transmission though, and I couldn't find that test when I googled for it.

    My guess is that the biggest problem with the 348 is that it came in a fairly wide variety of configurations, so some people might remember it as a dog, while others have fond memories of it. It just depends on which version they remember.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    Ugh, been a long time since I've seen a '59 Chevy from straight-on in the back! Talk about over-the-top!

    I'm not a fan of the flat-top four-door hardtop styling, either, but I did like how they did the two-tone that year (trunk lid white too).

    I could probably enjoy a two-door hardtop if it wasn't red, black, or white. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    The cornering picture was frightening.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    When I was younger, I used to hate the '59 Chevy, but my tastes have softened on them over the years. At the same time though, I used to really like the '59 Ford, but these days, not quite as much.

    If I was a low-end car buyer in 1959, and not overly brand-loyal, I think I would've just skipped Chevy/Ford/Plymouth and spent a few more bucks on a Dodge Coronet or Pontiac Catalina. If I was a Ford-hugger though, I guess I would've still stuck it out with one of their models, as I really don't look at the Edsel as an improvement, and Mercury at that time was a bit pricier...dabbling more in Olds/Buick and DeSoto/Chrysler territory, than Dodge/Pontiac.

    As for that 4-door hardtop roofline, I don't mind it too much on the smaller cars, but when you get to the longer-wheelbase models, like the C-bodies, or even the Bonneville, I think it looks a bit awkward.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited June 2015
    I always thought the 59/60 Chevy looked better as a 4dr flat top than a coupe because the trunk area seemed to stick out too much on the 2 door. It probably actually looked best as a convertible since the convertible top cover shortened the perception of the trunk area. Totally agree that the flat top didn't come off as well on the larger C bodies.

    I always thought the 59 Plymouth was a nice looking car. The 59 Ford sold very well because of styling cues from that Squarebird which had gained popularity by then. Now that 59 Dodge you like was pretty over the top in some styling respects, but that kind of made it attractive also I think.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    The only thing I really don't like about the '59 Plymouth is the front-end treatment. The eggcrate grille with the split down the middle where they put the logo, and the "frenched" headlights, just seemed a bit too garish. Oh, and the "toilet seat" spare tire cover stamped into the trunk lid! Otherwise though, I like the overall shape of it. And I thought the update to the tailfins was pretty well done.

    The Dodge is definitely a bit over-the-top in its styling, especially the way they swept back the "brows" over the headlights, but somehow it still seems to work, IMO.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,056
    edited June 2015
    I think the worst-looking Mopar of that period is the '60 Plymouth. I just can't get past that front wheel-opening treatment. I actually don't think the '61 Plymouth or Dodge are too bad, contrary to public opinion. ;)
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  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I kind of think that while 57 and 65 were high point years for styling, 1960 was in general kind of a low point year. Although there were a few I liked that year like the Desoto and Chrysler (particularly the coupes).
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    LOL You guys seriously need to post example photos / links with this stuff. It's almost as bad as trying to read military acronyms!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    xwesx said:

    LOL You guys seriously need to post example photos / links with this stuff. It's almost as bad as trying to read military acronyms!

    LOL... well, here's a side-by-side I tried to do of a '59 Dodge versus a '59 Plymouth...


    I think the Dodge is a bit over-wrought up front, especially the chromed "brows" over the headlights, but somehow the style seems to work more or less, for me. With the Plymouth, I think if they didn't do that little dip between the headlights with the fender tops, it would help fix some of the styling. But I still don't like the way some of the textures and shapes seem to clash. I'll admit though, with age, I'm softening a bit on the '59 Plymouth, too.

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I like that side by side picture comparison. I wasn't real fond of the abrupt cuts to the fins on the 59 Desoto and Chrysler, but I think the public in general liked that change. The Plymouth and Dodge handled the fin reduction better to me at least.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    edited June 2015
    Yes! Much better; thanks!

    I definitely prefer the front end of the Dodge, but WOW they should have continued that theme on the rear. I suspect those bullet tail lights are just a hint of the garish rear. That said, there were a couple years in there (was it 59/60?) where the uglier, the better (that applies to all American marques of the time, not just Dodge). LOL
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,655
    Here's a rear shot of the Plymouth/Dodge for '59...

    The Dodge seems to me to just be a continuation of '57-58, although the taillights are a bit exaggerated, and look like they're just begging to get snapped off. In contrast, I think the '59 Plymouth rear is a nice update. Something about it almost seems a bit European to me, like if you squint your eyes enough or drink a bit too much, it could bear a faint resemblance to a Fintail. I think it's the placement of the taillights down low, and the chrome trim at the end of the fenders that make me think of that. And I like the way the trim line on the side starts to form a crease along the side and wraps around the back, forming the lower edge of the decklid.

    It also seems that for '59, Plymouth was really starting to shake off two-toning. When I was searching through pics online, many of them were monotone, like the one I used, and if there was 2-toning, it was just a roof contrast. Sometimes the strip down the side was part of the two toning as well, but in other instances it looks like it was gold or silver (probably just on the Fury)
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,762
    It is kinda funny that the tail lights on the Plymouth look like, based on styling cues, that they should be on the Dodge. The fins are goofy on both of them in their own way (e.g., either car could lose the fins and it would have no effect on the car's styling otherwise), so that's a wash.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
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