Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail · July 2015

Funny thing about the wide whites on E-types - for as aesthetically iffy as they are, they are correct, and would be welcome at any major concours:

berri · July 2015

I can take an XKE whitewalls or not! Loved the toggle switches on the interior too. Totally different cars, but an XKE or a 63 Corvette Sting Ray are just very handsome designs (exterior and interior) to me.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2015

That's because concours are not meant to be arbiters of good taste. This is also why they allow continental kits and piles of options on cars that probably never had them originally--at least not all on one car. I mean, you CAN put a rugby player in a tuxedo....sure.

andre1969 · July 2015

The wide whitewalls don't bother me so much on the Jags...they're curvy enough, and 50's-looking enough to pull it off with some dignity, I think. But, it definitely looks better with blackwalls.

I don't know how much authority this carries, but the artists who did the old "Speed Racer" cartoon decreed that a Jag should have blackwalls...

Mr_Shiftright · July 2015

It gets worse:

Mr_Shiftright · July 2015

REALLY worse:

ab348 · July 2015

This would probably be right out, then...

berri · July 2015

I generally don't get too excited about whitewalls one way or the other. I prefer the narrow to the wide, but personally I think they work best on formal, more squared off designs. There was a time when blackwalls were considered a sign of a stripped car believe it or not. The big hassle I recall on whitewalls was keeping them clean and trying to avoid rub blemishes.

texases · July 2015

berri said:
I generally don't get too excited about whitewalls one way or the other. I prefer the narrow to the wide, but personally I think they work best on formal, more squared off designs. There was a time when blackwalls were considered a sign of a stripped car believe it or not. The big hassle I recall on whitewalls was keeping them clean and trying to avoid rub blemishes.

That's why you kept some of this around:

berri · July 2015

Now stuff like that takes me back to garages back in those days - many of them detached from the house.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2015

That stuff would probably strip paint off a battleship.

ab348 · July 2015

Bleche-Wite was the very best thing I ever found for cleaning whitewalls! They stopped selling it in Canada several years ago. Dunno if it is still available in the USA.

stever · July 2015

The MSDS says it causes severe skin burns and eye damage if it contacts them. Sounds like lovely stuff.

explorerx4 · July 2015

Bleche-Wite is still around although recently started selling with a Black Magic logo on it. I still use it to clean my tires. Maybe that's what thinned out the clear coat on my Mustang rims.

sda · July 2015

ab348 said:
Bleche-Wite was the very best thing I ever found for cleaning whitewalls! They stopped selling it in Canada several years ago. Dunno if it is still available in the USA.

Dad taught me to use Brillo or SOS pads. They worked well and were part of the car washing routine.

stever · July 2015

Housekeeping notes - it takes 5 flags before the spam and abuse posts get sent to the moderation queue, so feel free to shoot a mod an email or PM when you see solicitations like the now-removed one, and that'll help us get to the spam faster. Thanks!

qbrozen · July 2015

ah. ok. thanks for the tip.

steine13 · July 2015

What do y'all think of this period piece?
http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/5110196392.html

The seller is on old friend of mine... so please be gentle.
I'd buy it if I weren't afraid of it becoming a serious time sink.

Cheers -Mathias

fintail · July 2015

Are the rockers reflecting, dirty, or rusty? If it's not rotten, maybe a good deal.

steine13 said:
What do y'all think of this period piece?
http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/5110196392.html

The seller is on old friend of mine... so please be gentle.
I'd buy it if I weren't afraid of it becoming a serious time sink.

Cheers -Mathias

texases · July 2015

If it's as good as it looks, seems like $2000 is cheap, not that I know...

andre1969 · July 2015

Yeah, I'll agree with the others...as long as that's just dirt along the lower parts and not rust, it seems like a screaming bargain. Heck, I even like it, and that's not normally the type of car I'd go for.

steine13 · July 2015

Oh that's rust, alright. It's been garaged the last 18 years but was "car-ported" before that.
It wasn't really driven in the salt, ever, afaik, but this is an italian car in michigan. by rights it should be sitting in a storm drain somewhere...

the first real nibble came from a guy in florida. time to get out the popcorn..

qbrozen · July 2015

oh, if that's rust, forget it. Odds are, the inner rockers are also gone. Replacing both and painting is far more than the value of the car when done.

stickguy · July 2015

Also looks like the speedo is stuck at about 17 MPH.

add me to list of buyers if it wasn't rotted out.

qbrozen · July 2015

that's standard. there is a little peg in both the speedo and tach that prevent the needles from dropping to zero.

qbrozen · July 2015

here's a pic where you can see the peg:

texases · July 2015

??? Why do that on the speedo?

stickguy · July 2015

Wondering the same thing.

qbrozen · July 2015

i guess so it doesn't block the precious trip odo?

No idea.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2015

These are good cars and quite reliable as a rule--although rather anemic. A minivan could slap it silly 0-60. Bosch injection, plenty of room inside, and weather tight. The rust issue is a serious matter however, because you can still buy these mid 80s models all clean and pretty for not a lot of money. The Graduate is the stripped down model. so probably no AC and no electric windows.

Needs to go on a lift to say more about it.

omarman · July 2015

Anybody want to save a 70s Cadillac (or two)? Both cars look okay in the few pics posted by the same seller. I like the 1977 better but I don't have any place to keep it out of the weather. Still, if it runs and drives then it's a great deal for only 1500 bucks. That's like $400 in 1977 trippy hippie money.

1977 Cadillac DeVille

1972 Cadillac Calais

Mr_Shiftright · July 2015

Well on the '77 it's not really a $1500 car. Let's say you have the best of luck with it--you're still in for new tires, battery, brake coolant flush, oil change and you'll have to drain the gas tank and maybe drop it. If you have a shop do all that, figure another $1500. Then you have to presume it runs right and nothing at all is wrong with it. So let's say you're lucky again and you find only $500 in repairs to do. So you're in $3500 at the optimum best possible outcome. On the pessimistic end, if you find out the transmission or engine is bad, you're a loser bigtime.

Ditto on the '72. One always has the question as to "why" it was stored all those years.

If you can't start or drive a "garage find", the car you buy had better be worth not only what you paid for it, but what you plan to put into it.

Applying that test, neither of these cars is worth $3500--$5000 if seriously broken.

sda · July 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
Well on the '77 it's not really a $1500 car. Let's say you have the best of luck with it--you're still in for new tires, battery, brake coolant flush, oil change and you'll have to drain the gas tank and maybe drop it. If you have a shop do all that, figure another $1500. Then you have to presume it runs right and nothing at all is wrong with it. So let's say you're lucky again and you find only $500 in repairs to do. So you're in $3500 at the optimum best possible outcome. On the pessimistic end, if you find out the transmission or engine is bad, you're a loser bigtime.

Ditto on the '72. One always has the question as to "why" it was stored all those years.

If you can't start or drive a "garage find", the car you buy had better be worth not only what you paid for it, but what you plan to put into it.

Applying that test, neither of these cars is worth $3500--$5000 if seriously broken.

So true, it is easy to think you have a good buy only to find out that getting it up to snuff is more that anticipated. Been there, done that. The 77 Sedan DeVille is the same color brown as the 78 Sedan DeVille d'Elegance that my dad had.

sda · July 2015

Using my Ipad if I need to edit a post after I submitted it, there is an icon that I select that will allow me to do so. I may be blind, but using my Surface, I don't see any way to do so. Am I missing something?

stever · July 2015

@Karen_CM has a Surface. Let's see if we can get her in with her method.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2015

Did you attempt to edit right away?

sda said:
Using my Ipad if I need to edit a post after I submitted it, there is an icon that I select that will allow me to do so. I may be blind, but using my Surface, I don't see any way to do so. Am I missing something?

stickguy · July 2015

must have been nasty pushing those beasts out of the garage!

and what's up with the trailer hitches on both cars?

xwesx · July 2015

I don't know what a Surface is (unless I smack into one, that is), but normal computer includes a rollover icon in the upper right corner of the post's box (e.g., to the far right of the line occupied by the user name). Perhaps it does not show up on your device unless you tap that area?

Mr_Shiftright · July 2015

the Surface uses Windows RT as an OS. So he may not see that icon. In any event, in normal circumstances you all have 4 hours to make an edit change, after which---no go.

andre1969 · July 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
Well on the '77 it's not really a $1500 car. Let's say you have the best of luck with it--you're still in for new tires, battery, brake coolant flush, oil change and you'll have to drain the gas tank and maybe drop it. If you have a shop do all that, figure another $1500. Then you have to presume it runs right and nothing at all is wrong with it. So let's say you're lucky again and you find only $500 in repairs to do. So you're in $3500 at the optimum best possible outcome. On the pessimistic end, if you find out the transmission or engine is bad, you're a loser bigtime.

Ditto on the '72. One always has the question as to "why" it was stored all those years.

If you can't start or drive a "garage find", the car you buy had better be worth not only what you paid for it, but what you plan to put into it.

Applying that test, neither of these cars is worth $3500--$5000 if seriously broken.

I see '77-79 DeVilles fairly often, and even an occasional Fleetwood, at the various swap meets in Carlisle, PA. Usually you can find a pretty nice one for around $5-6,000 asking. If they're ultra-low mileage the prices jack up quickly. Of course, those are simply asking prices...

The big '71-76 battlecruisers are less common, but still show up from time to time. Earlier models tend to be priced higher...understandable, as emissions took their toll as the years wore on. And I don't know how much of a difference a hardtop versus pillared makes by this era, but the '71-73 coupes were hardtops, whereas '74-76 were fixed-window landau roof models. The last one of these big brutes I remember seeing was a '71-72 hardtop coupe, and I think it was very low mileage, like 20-30K or so, and looked almost brand-new. They might've been asking like $10-12K for it.

You're probably better off just going out and buying one that you already know runs, and can easily spot all of its issues.

ab348 · July 2015

Mr_Shiftright said:
Well on the '77 it's not really a $1500 car. Let's say you have the best of luck with it--you're still in for new tires, battery, brake coolant flush, oil change and you'll have to drain the gas tank and maybe drop it. If you have a shop do all that, figure another $1500. Then you have to presume it runs right and nothing at all is wrong with it. So let's say you're lucky again and you find only $500 in repairs to do. So you're in $3500 at the optimum best possible outcome. On the pessimistic end, if you find out the transmission or engine is bad, you're a loser bigtime.

Ditto on the '72. One always has the question as to "why" it was stored all those years.

If you can't start or drive a "garage find", the car you buy had better be worth not only what you paid for it, but what you plan to put into it.

Applying that test, neither of these cars is worth $3500--$5000 if seriously broken.

Not being drivable would tend to cloud any sale. That makes it a project instead of cheap wheels.

What tends to be the lower end of the scale for roadworthy cheap wheels these days? $3000?

I remember in '97 paying $2000 for my '78 Delta 88 in 1997 and while I could drive it right away, over the next couple of years it got most of the things Shifty described. Fortunately no major repairs though in the 6 years I had it.

Mr_Shiftright · July 2015

Yes I think about $3000 is about minimum price for anything driveable and somewhat presentable, without an arm's length list of needs. But you'll have to wade through a lot of junk to get one at that price.

steine13 · July 2015

On the Alfa: Sold to the first person to look at it, for $1,900.
The guy appears to be the real deal, owning as he does an 80's GTV.
Good heavens.
Cheers -Mathias

Mr_Shiftright · July 2015

If he's handy with a welder it might work out for him. In the UK, they replace rocker panels like we replace oil filters.

fintail · July 2015

Had the old car out today, ran fine, although it once again seemed like an oven in it - temps in the low 80s, partly sunny. Maybe AC has finally ruined me.

I did some pics like this with the Bluetec, time to do it again:

Mr_Shiftright · July 2015

Well if nothing else they've made great strides in aerodynamics.

stickguy · July 2015

and went way backwards in outward visibility.

fintail · July 2015

Wouldn't surprise me of the drag coefficient on a fintail is like 0.40 or more. At least it has some curves. I filled it up after the ~100 mile drive 2 weeks ago, averaged about 20 mpg, not too bad.

berri · July 2015

So Fin, if both cars were in identical shape and you could only keep one, which would it be?

andre1969 · July 2015

The drag coefficient on that Fintail might be a lot more than 0.40. I remember reading that it was a big deal when the 1977 Cougar coupe was down to around 0.57...and that was with wind tunnel testing during the design phase! I think one of the first domestic cars to break the 0.40 barrier was the 1982 Firebird. Mass-produced, at least. I heard that the 1969 Charger Daytona had a 0.28 drag coefficient.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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