Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

stickguy · August 2015

looking in my wallet after my daughter gets done with it, doesn't look like we will be making it out of the parking lot.

maybe I will just sit in it and make "vroom vroom" noises.

abacomike · August 2015

stickguy said:

looking in my wallet after my daughter gets done with it, doesn't look like we will be making it out of the parking lot. maybe I will just sit in it and make "vroom vroom" noises.

"VROOM, VROOM" sounds good!

abacomike · August 2015

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

Will you let me drive your car?

Of course, stick! I'll show you how the meter works. You put $20 bills into the slot for each mile you drive. See how simple it will be?
Sounds pricey. Any AAA discounts?
Or AARP?

AAA is ok, but no discounts for AARP'ers!

driver100 · August 2015

dino001 said:
Cadillac SRX New York ad is probably one of those "city jungle" themes, whether it makes sense or not. For me, still hands down worst ad (by that means most obnoxious, insulting, insensitive) is the one Escalade's ad David Bowie's "Fame" tune.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E_84YVEB88

Truly horrendous, on so many levels that only a thirty years old self-centered, sleep deprived Madison Avenue "creative designer" jacked up on Monster or Red Bull can think it's good. Tune great, message absolutely repellant. Buy a Cadillac, you'll be like those worst oppressors this world has ever seen.

The song is the best part. I also like that Frank Lloyd Wright style house. The owners seem to have lots of bling on them....did I see gold chains and huge earrings?

I guess they are equating the opulence of those old Egyptian Chariots with the life you want to live. I am not sure about how tasteless it is, but, once again, I am an amateur in the field of marketing...though I have taken courses, been in sales for most of my life, read books on the subject, and had to read the market right to launch my business..........but, I am not so sure I would be part of the demographic that ad is aimed at.....at least I sure hope not. The only jewellery I have is my watch and wedding ring and I don't want a blinged out SUV.

roadburner · August 2015

I'm still bemused by the Chevrolet, Ford, and Toyota ads that portray their customers as flaky nitwits. "Our customers are imbeciles- you can be one too!" doesn't seem to be a sound marketing strategy, but what do I know?

fezo · August 2015

Mike, you know I'm coming! Need way comfy bed, a pricey Mercedes to check out - otherwise I'm simple. If I get my Canadian cat can he visit?

abacomike · August 2015

fezo said:

Mike, you know I'm coming! Need way comfy bed, a pricey Mercedes to check out - otherwise I'm simple. If I get my Canadian cat can he visit?

The only way I would allow a cat within 10 meters of my humble abode is if I was on a cruise in the Caribbean and was unaware of the feline visitor. As for the way comfy bed, if it's not up to your standards, consider sleeping bags or decking it on one of my couches that pull out as a bed.

graphicguy · August 2015

OK....I am officially LIVID!!!!!!!

Caddy dealer just called and said they could find nothing wrong with the CTS. First, it threw a code and they replaced the power steering unit and rack. DIdn't fix it. Then, the whole "no code-no fix" routine. Threw another code and they updated the software.

Stalling....no code-no fix. Yet, they looked at (not necessarily replaced) the fuel rails, injetors, ECU and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. It happened but they don't know the cause, so they can't find anything wrong (according to them).

Then there's CUE issues. Funny, CUE works fine on the XTS loaner, but they say the one in my CTS works fine, too. How they can make that statement just befuddles the hell out of me.

This is the Reader's Digest version. You guys have heard all the details already, so I won't repeat them.

So, as it's coming up on the 30 day mark (just about 26 days in the shop) and all of a sudden they say they can't find anything wrong. Cadillac corporate has to be the culprit here. They tell the dealership to quit their diagnosis (or that they won't pay for any more) and give the car back before the buyback terms kick in (which already have given the stalling and power steering failures are safety related, so they only get one chance to fix them).

I'm going to the local sign shop and have a couple of those magnetic signs made up that says "LEMON" to plaster on the car.

I'm picking it up today. Cadillac/GM....if you read these boards at all, I'm telling everyone I meet, every car forum I can find, every public event I attend, what garbage you put out, and how poorly you treat your "premium brand" customers.

stickguy · August 2015

sorry GG. situation certainly continues to suck. But, I doubt Caddy corporate cares (they have shown that). Get yourself on TV. news programs love the whole "little guy getting screwed rises up to fight the big bad corporation" angle!

Obviously they have accepted that the car indeed was having problems. Since they have not fixed them, are they actually giving you, in writing, confirmation of "broken but can't fix"? Mind boggling.

I hope you finally do get to a judge, and he slams them hard over this. Wonder if you can give punitive damages in a LL case?

and man, if after all this and GM telling you it was OK to drive (which by giving it back, they tacitly are), something horrible happened (don't drive it, and it won't!) leading to injury directly the fault of the car, the lawsuit would be enormous. and so easy.

abacomike · August 2015

graphicguy said:

OK....I am officially LIVID!!!!!!! Caddy dealer just called and said they could find nothing wrong with the CTS. First, it threw a code and they replaced the power steering unit and rack. DIdn't fix it. Then, the whole "no code-no fix" routine. Threw another code and they updated the software. Stalling....no code-no fix. Yet, they looked at (not necessarily replaced) the fuel rails, injetors, ECU and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. It happened but they don't know the cause, so they can't find anything wrong (according to them). Then there's CUE issues. Funny, CUE works fine on the XTS loaner, but they say the one in my CTS works fine, too. How they can make that statement just befuddles the hell out of me. This is the Reader's Digest version. You guys have heard all the details already, so I won't repeat them. So, as it's coming up on the 30 day mark (just about 26 days in the shop) and all of a sudden they say they can't find anything wrong. Cadillac corporate has to be the culprit here. They tell the dealership to quit their diagnosis (or that they won't pay for any more) and give the car back before the buyback terms kick in (which already have given the stalling and power steering failures are safety related, so they only get one chance to fix them). I'm going to the local sign shop and have a couple of those magnetic signs made up that says "LEMON" to plaster on the car. I'm picking it up today. Cadillac/GM....if you read these boards at all, I'm telling everyone I meet, every car forum I can find, every public event I attend, what garbage you put out, and how poorly you treat your "premium brand" customers.

I agree. I wouldn't think of purchasing a Cadillac after what you've been through GG. I wouldn't even rent one when I fly to Dallas. I've written them off my list. Awful company to do business with.

I would hate to think what I would do if my MB gave me trouble and the service dept said to me, "...no code, no problem!" When I had injector problems on my 2012 and no code was evident, they kept the car for 10 days until they tracked the problem to one or morr leaking injectors. So they replaced all the injectors and it never threw a code!!!

nyccarguy · August 2015

@graphicguy - it REALLY stinks what you are going through right now with your CTS. We are here for you, so keep venting away!

imidazol97 · August 2015

@graphicguy What would be really interesting would be to have the service manager, not one of the writers, come to your car to operate the CUE system through the parts that you've found give trouble. And have the service manager driver around with you for 30 minutes or so in case the car stalls along Gilbert (is that the store it's been at?) or the power steering cuts off. Bet he's not interested in a test and test drive.

Or the owner of the store could show you how it works.

I think I'd find it really hard to be civil, but the proof is in the pudding.

And I've always had great service from my Buick store. When there was a strange stall after cold start, the service manager asked to be able to drive the car home. I'll bet your car never left their shop property because they were afraid it would act up and be unsafe.

If it stalls on the way home with you driving..., who you gonna call?

driver100 · August 2015

GG, Sorry to hear that, the whole thing is ridiculous.

I agree, if you can get some publicity it could be a big help.

I think I would refuse to take the car back until they could prove it is running properly - and I'd keep the loaner car.

Be sure to write across your bill, you are taking delivery but the car has not been repaired.

[Deleted User] · August 2015

GG, how many miles were on your car when you dropped it off and how many after you picked it up? I'm curious how extensive their road testing was while they had your car in the shop.

bwia · August 2015

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Read more at http://www.pcworld.com/article/2966127/browsers/the-best-web-browser-of-2015-firefox-chrome-edge-ie-and-opera-compared.html

bwia · August 2015

@mike said: I agree. I wouldn't think of purchasing a Cadillac after what you've been through GG. I wouldn't even rent one when I fly to Dallas. I've written them off my list. Awful company to do business with.

Not so fast. This case is an outlier to the nth. degree. None of us here who own GM products have ever had such poor experiences with their dealership or product. The new GM bends over backwards to delight its customers. It's worth a try but I would write directly to CEO Mary Barra and to Cadillac chief Johan de Nysschen. They would be happy to hear directly from the aggrieved customer.

robr2 · August 2015

I agree bwia. If we all refused to use products because of one person's experience, nobody would buy anything.

ab348 · August 2015

bwia said:
@mike said: I agree. I wouldn't think of purchasing a Cadillac after what you've been through GG. I wouldn't even rent one when I fly to Dallas. I've written them off my list. Awful company to do business with.

Not so fast. This case is an outlier to the nth. degree. None of us here who own GM products have ever had such poor experiences with their dealership or product. The new GM bends over backwards to delight its customers. It's worth a try but I would write directly to CEO Mary Barra and to Cadillac chief Johan de Nysschen. They would be happy to hear directly from the aggrieved customer.

Exactly. I feel for what GG is experiencing but something here just seems off.

stickguy · August 2015

Heck, just send them a link to this thread.

I wonder if this is getting bottled up with the regional/zone office? That's going to be the POC for the dealer, right?

Not GGs issue, but might be a big part of this not getting addressed like it should or escalated.

roadburner · August 2015

I have a good friend who has had subpar experiences with our local Cadillac dealer, but likewise my experience with the local Audi dealer has been sketchy- at best. GG's experiences with both brands only confirms that I would not want to own either one if I had to rely on the local nitwits...

suydam · August 2015

I think a lot depends on the dealership. I felt pretty confident buying my Buick because the local dealership is great. OTOH although Subaru has a good national reputation, there is only 1 dealership here and their service department is dreadful.

stever · August 2015

That's what bugs me about considering that Encore we test drove a couple of weeks ago with the $1,400 mop and glow package that all the cars at that dealership come with. If the dealer is so willing to rip people off right up front like that, what kind of treatment am I going to get if I need service?

suydam · August 2015

Do you know anybody who has had their car serviced there?

bwia · August 2015

stever said:
That's what bugs me about considering that Encore we test drove a couple of weeks ago with the $1,400 mop and glow package that all the cars at that dealership come with. If the dealer is so willing to rip people off right up front like that, what kind of treatment am I going to get if I need service?

Great service. Otherwise GM would drop them like a bad habit. Even before its bankruptcy GM began to shed dealerships that were not measuring up. GM's eminent bankruptcy and restructuring hastened that process. I know two Buick dealerships in my area that met their demise for not meeting GM's no nonsense revised standards (sales, service, facilities, etc.)

stever · August 2015

suydam said:
Do you know anybody who has had their car serviced there?

Haven't chatted up anyone here about specific dealer service departments, just got recommendations for indy mechanics. In general, the Toyota dealer seems to be well regarded and the Kia sounds about the worst. I can confirm that the Kia sales experience is old school, but the Toyota dealer wasn't exactly impressive either. So far the no haggle multiplex has been the best - low pressure, well trained staff. And I had a good recall service experience with one of the Dodge dealers (not the one owned by the Kia people), although the online appointment system didn't work well. The 800 call to set up a VW test drive didn't work well either.

Mostly the dealers here seem to be stuck in the last century.

driver100 · August 2015

GG, it may be worth writing to the Insurance institute, the government safety people, and tell your insurance guy.
Basically, the car is not safe.

You may consider asking a car review person or a consumer columnist if they would take the car for a drive.
Also, go for a drive with service manager and record what happens when it acts up.

This car is probably a real exceptional lemon, but, no one wants to risk spending that much money and being caught in a similar situation.

The idea of writing to Mary Bara is a possibility, be sure to hand write the envelope and know she won't be the one opening the letter, it may never reach her.

qbrozen · August 2015

personally, I'd be driving around with a camera recording from over my shoulder so you can see the road ahead as well as the driver's hands and the gauges. Even if the footage doesn't help you with the manufacturer, it would be effective in court.

graphicguy · August 2015

imidazol97 said:
@graphicguy What would be really interesting would be to have the service manager, not one of the writers, come to your car to operate the CUE system through the parts that you've found give trouble. And have the service manager driver around with you for 30 minutes or so in case the car stalls along Gilbert (is that the store it's been at?) or the power steering cuts off. Bet he's not interested in a test and test drive.

Or the owner of the store could show you how it works.

I think I'd find it really hard to be civil, but the proof is in the pudding.

And I've always had great service from my Buick store. When there was a strange stall after cold start, the service manager asked to be able to drive the car home. I'll bet your car never left their shop property because they were afraid it would act up and be unsafe.

If it stalls on the way home with you driving..., who you gonna call?

Imid...that's exactly what I did. They wanted to return the car to me after I signed their paperwork stating that the car was fixed. I refused. I told the service manager to go for a ride with me. Didn't get 50 yards out of their driveway before the Power Steering started acting up. I showed him how the power steering goes out and in. He saw it.

It didn't stall, so I couldn't show him that. But, as I mentioned to him..."you told me the power steering was fine. It's not, as you saw. Stalling is the same way."

Then I showed him how CUE no longer recognizes voice commands. This is what the service writer tried to tell me was "normal".

Service manager agreed to keep it and try to find what's wrong.

I don't know what they hell they had been doing for the last 2 weeks, but it certainly wasn't related to fixing the car. It took me all of 5 minutes to show they what was wrong. I quizzed the service writer who exactly test drove my car to see what was wrong. Flippantly, he said the car had been on a lift longer than it was on the road so they probably had never test driven it, then chucckled. He thought it was funny. I wasn't laughing.

Still don't want the car, regardless after all this.

Still LIVID, too.

This is how Cadillac gets around the obvious problems....deny they exist and tell the owner it's operating normally.

I won't let up. This is insane!

stickguy · August 2015

Tell them if it is that great a car, to trade it in for top book and try to resell it. They should want to jump on that deal!

suydam · August 2015

>Mostly the dealers here seem to be stuck in the last century.<
Well most of them are. But front office sales and service departments are sometimes quite different in terms of quality. Although, now that I think about it, the 3 outstanding service departments here all have pretty good dealer service too. I didn't get any song and dance with my Encore purchase. Then again, it was a leftover '14, it was February and about 15 degrees, and GM had a $2k cash back promo going on.

stever · August 2015

Good point, but I don't like the idea of rewarding dealers for crummy marketing practices in the first place.

Maybe that's why I haven't purchased a new car since 1998 LOL. And the dealer I got the last van from had just signed a consent decree with the AG's office to clean up their act. I had walked from the Honda dealer the week before with the salesguy chasing me out of the parking lot after a bait and switch. I didn't even slow down for the lot vultures after pulling into a Cal Worthington the week before that. Such fond memories.

Actually, out of the dozen shopping trips and test drives in the last 18 months, only two or three came off as a bit sleazy. Most were good experiences and a couple were exceptional. Unfortunately most of the good ones were back in the Midwest.

suydam · August 2015

Which is where I live.

abacomike · August 2015

I admit, after reading my negative post about Cadillac that I was blaming all Cadillacs, dealerships and GM unfairly. I just reacted to harshly to the nonsensical manner in which the Cadillac dealer and service department are treating GG and his CTS.

I just can't believe that service department did not test drive the car. One block of driving with the service manager and the steering failed just like GG said it would. They should cancel that dealerships franchise and the same with the dealership GG bought his car from.

The way these two dealerships handled GG and his car is criminal. There is something going on between Cadillac Division and GG's car. These things just don't happen accidentally!

imidazol97 · August 2015

graphicguy said:

Imid...that's exactly what I did. They wanted to return the car to me after I signed their paperwork stating that the car was fixed. I refused. I told the service manager to go for a ride with me. Didn't get 50 yards out of their driveway before the Power Steering started acting up. I showed him how the power steering goes out and in. He saw it.

Good!

I'd like to say I would have been in the general manager/owner's office dancing on their desktop about the crappy way their service department operates. They don't even check to see if anything they might have done
had any effect on the problem.

I hope I don't get criticized by other posters again for standing up for GM in general (no puns intended) but I still think this is more a dealer problem than the overall GM (Cadillac) problem. If the store had been effective in their first fixes, Cadillac wouldn't be trying to figure out how to stall you on a buyback of a car the dealer _says_ they had in the service department and fixed or _says_ there is no problem.

Extrapolating, I wonder if this store(s) has been criticized for vehicles that had to be bought back before and the store(s) is trying not to admit there's a problem(s) that they can't find.

jpp75 · August 2015

abacomike said:
I admit, after reading my negative post about Cadillac that I was blaming all Cadillacs, dealerships and GM unfairly. I just reacted to harshly to the nonsensical manner in which the Cadillac dealer and service department are treating GG and his CTS.

I just can't believe that service department did not test drive the car. One block of driving with the service manager and the steering failed just like GG said it would. They should cancel that dealerships franchise and the same with the dealership GG bought his car from.

The way these two dealerships handled GG and his car is criminal. There is something going on between Cadillac Division and GG's car. These things just don't happen accidentally!

As I approach 40 I can say no one in my age range thinks about Cadillac when they look for a new car.

stickguy · August 2015

JPP, qbrozen wants to have a word with you!

I agree with others that the dealer and likely the zone/region is the root of the problem. GM corporate is too big to efficiently deal with one-offs like this.

jpp75 · August 2015

stickguy said:
JPP, qbrozen wants to have a word with you!

I agree with others that the dealer and likely the zone/region is the root of the problem. GM corporate is too big to efficiently deal with one-offs like this.

Ha, is qbrozen around my age? I know he loves his CTS but I'd rather have his Volvo.

graphicguy · August 2015

stickguy said:
Tell them if it is that great a car, to trade it in for top book and try to resell it. They should want to jump on that deal!

Good idea.

abacomike said:
I admit, after reading my negative post about Cadillac that I was blaming all Cadillacs, dealerships and GM unfairly. I just reacted to harshly to the nonsensical manner in which the Cadillac dealer and service department are treating GG and his CTS.

I just can't believe that service department did not test drive the car. One block of driving with the service manager and the steering failed just like GG said it would. They should cancel that dealerships franchise and the same with the dealership GG bought his car from.

The way these two dealerships handled GG and his car is criminal. There is something going on between Cadillac Division and GG's car. These things just don't happen accidentally!

Mike...I don't think this is a dealer "thing" per se....particularly because I got the same run around from two different dealers. I think the Regional Manager has dug in his/her heals. I know they were on the phone with someone in the Service Manager's (closed off) office for a while after I said I wouldn't sign their paperwork stating the car was fixed. Who they were talking to? I don't know. Zone Manager? Perhaps.

On this level, I'm betting Cadillac Corporate has no idea what's happening. Maybe I should let them know.

stickguy · August 2015

Go for it. Assuming you can breach the defenses they have up.

isellhondas · August 2015

Man, I can't blame for for being livid!

We've owned two Cadillacs but there is no way now that I would EVER consider another one.

You would THINK Cadillac would have learned lessons. They built some garbage cars in the 80's that almost distroyed their loyal customer base. they had the diesels, the one year only 4-6-8 engines only to be followed up with the evfen worse HT 4100's.. The Northstars develop a 5000.00 to fix oil leak and have other problems.

Horrible!

fezo · August 2015

Steve - you have me beat by a year. My last new car was in 1999.

My approach on any dealer that says they put the mop and glo on all their cars is I'll only negotiate for a price without it. I don't want it and if they are going to sell me a car I won't pay a cent for that stuff and still expect a very competitive price.

I don't know about now but there certainly used to be items that if they had done I wanted no part of the car at all.

I'm at the age where if I bought a Cadillac or Buick I'd bring up their average buyer number. I'm th elast guy they want.

graphicguy · August 2015

Thanks for all the support everyone. It's the only thing from keeping me from doing something I probably shouldn't, or saying something I definitely shouldn't in some letters I'm writing to Cadillac. All the support is greatly appreciated.

In other news, oil continues to fall. Last time a barrel of oil was this low, a gal of gas dipped to $1.99/gal in 2009. So those who are paying more? No good reason why. Plenty of supply, plenty stored, all the refining that keep the storage tanks bursting at the seams.

abacomike · August 2015

graphicguy said:

Thanks for all the support everyone. It's the only thing from keeping me from doing something I probably shouldn't, or saying something I definitely shouldn't in some letters I'm writing to Cadillac. All the support is greatly appreciated. In other news, oil continues to fall. Last time a barrel of oil was this low, a gal of gas dipped to $1.99/gal in 2009. So those who are paying more? No good reason why. Plenty of supply, plenty stored, all the refining that keep the storage tanks bursting at the seams.

I filled up with gas at Costco today. It was $2.79.9 a gallon for premium unleaded - over 25 cents a gallon less than any of the branded gas stations. So long as it's tier 1 gas, I am happy with that price.

I usually use Chevron with Techron, but 25+ cents a gallon cheaper, why use anything else but Costco?

oldfarmer50 · August 2015

abacomike said:

graphicguy said:

Thanks for all the support everyone. It's the only thing from keeping me from doing something I probably shouldn't, or saying something I definitely shouldn't in some letters I'm writing to Cadillac. All the support is greatly appreciated.

In other news, oil continues to fall. Last time a barrel of oil was this low, a gal of gas dipped to $1.99/gal in 2009. So those who are paying more? No good reason why. Plenty of supply, plenty stored, all the refining that keep the storage tanks bursting at the seams.

I filled up with gas at Costco today. It was $2.79.9 a gallon for premium unleaded - over 25 cents a gallon less than any of the branded gas stations. So long as it's tier 1 gas, I am happy with that price.

I usually use Chevron with Techron, but 25+ cents a gallon cheaper, why use anything else but Costco?

I filled up with PUG yesterday for $2.82. Top tier Mobil is $2.85. If you like Chevron's Techron can't you just buy a bottle and add it yourself?

fezo · August 2015

Sure, you can buy a bottle of Techron and I do and use it. Still if I'm in an area with Chevron or Texaco stations and they're competitively priced that's what I'll buy.

76 claims to be beyond top tier. I have no idea if that's true.

$2.19 for RUG at Costco today. Still dropping. $2.53 for PUG. 3% cash back rebate.

stickguy · August 2015

filled up at Exxon today. Down to $2.099

odd thing, mid and PUG never change. PUG is $2.87, and Mid is $2.77. that is one heck of a gap.

other stations local are much smaller spreads.'

oh, the Exxon also has gone to a 12 cent upcharge for credit (2.21 vs. 2.09). Good thing I use my Exxon card. Get the cash price!

I suspect down in VA I might see a station that dropped below $2/gal finally.

stever · August 2015

fezo said:
Steve - you have me beat by a year. My last new car was in 1999.

Well, I got the '99 Quest on the last day of the year in 1998, so I may only have you beat by a day.

You're still ahead of me in the Miata department.

imidazol97 · August 2015

stickguy said:

filled up at Exxon today. Down to $2.099 odd thing, mid and PUG never change. PUG is $2.87, and Mid is $2.77. that is one heck of a gap. other stations local are much smaller spreads.' oh, the Exxon also has gone to a 12 cent upcharge for credit (2.21 vs. 2.09). Good thing I use my Exxon card. Get the cash price! I suspect down in VA I might see a station that dropped below $2/gal finally.

Considering that MUG is about 1/3 to 40 percent PUG, some paying 2.77 for MUG is really getting taken. Just alternate PUG with regular at $2.09.

explorerx4 · August 2015

@oldfarmer, I didn't know the Mustang was octane aware, but it is.

qbrozen · August 2015

jpp5862 said:

JPP, qbrozen wants to have a word with you! I agree with others that the dealer and likely the zone/region is the root of the problem. GM corporate is too big to efficiently deal with one-offs like this.
Ha, is qbrozen around my age? I know he loves his CTS but I'd rather have his Volvo.

Bought my CTS not long after my 41st bday. I found that I agree with some reviews that Cadillac has become the luxo leader in driving dynamics. IMHO, those still clinging to BMW have not driven a comparably equipped CTS or ATS. It is no longer granddad's cadillac.

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