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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Heck, they're all getting more Chinese parts in them regardless of where they are assembled.
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    benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    The Honda Accord's engine and transmission are also made in Ohio in huge factories employing thousands of people.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    But whose parts in those end items??? I suspect they are sourced from all over the globe, including foreign owned US plants. But I agree, auto's are global now. The only real differentiation is which plants are UAW (and personally that issue does not make me think of something as "American"). And the profits primarily go to the top executives and the stockholders, both of which can be all over the globe as well these days.

    BTW: I just saw that the most "American" mid sized sedan is actually a Toyota Camry by parts and labor. I suspect the Accord isn't far behind.
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    scape2 said:

    Older thread but I'll post. Trying to buy American is extremely important to you., your economic future, the future of your kids and grand kids. As the media pushes Honda/Toyota and Hyundia as being American this is wrong. Ask where their headquarters are? what stock exchange? The tooling of the plant? support? parts? Think long term, demand American

    A very simplistic point of view. You should learn more about the industry and economics.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,687
    benjaminh said:



    So the Ford Fusion made in Mexico is more "American" than my Accord made in Ohio?

    Hmmm.

    We'll need to agree to disagree.

    I'll admit, I was a bit disappointed when I found out my 2012 Ram was hecho en Meh-hico...

    I'll also confess to once owning a 2000 Intrepid that was made in Canada, eh. And, it's a-boot time I fessed up to my old '82 Cutlass Supreme, which was snuck across the Northern border, as well. :p

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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    I've had a ton of American made cars but most of them were Japanese makes.

    At least I've got an answer for (and people used to say this) "Don't you remember Pearl Harbor?" My cars were built in Hiroshima. Let's call it a draw.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I'll buy American when the American version is the best version of something on the market.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Same here. Like many I learned the hard way.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2015
    Um, I tend to buy foreign and had some head gasket issues with my '89 Voyager. Can't complain about the '09 Grand Caravan that we picked up last year though. We've done about 30,000 miles in it since May 2014, including three long road trips heavily loaded down with household goods. Pushing 155,000 miles now. Got our money's worth out of it already.

    Come to think of it, Canadians probably made it, so never mind. :D
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    My next door neighbor is the king of used Chrysler minivans. Does most of the work himself and gets insane miles on them. One he handed down to his son has over 350K on it. It looks like hell but still going strong.

    He had a great story of when he was a lot younger. Bought I think a Plymouth Fury at a junk yard and fixed it up to work. $75. After a while it was ready to return to the junkyard. Picked up a Dodge Polaris and whatever parts it needed he took from the Fury and then got the Fury back to the junkyard where they gave him I think $25 for it. Once the Polaris had it he repeated the process again. Same deal. $75 and $25.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited August 2015
    With so many great product from makes all over the globe, why go thru life buying Ford and GM?

    I have no ties to the UAW, no family or friends in the upper echelon of these two companies and no loyalty to just one company who considers me just a number...

    If anything, I actually hope to own or experience every brand I can before I have to turn in my drivers license... Being a car enthusiast to me appreciating cars for what they are.
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    carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,498
    anythngbutgm said:

    ... Being a car enthusiast to me appreciating cars for what they are.

    Mirrors my philosophy. Well said.

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    roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,362
    I buy what I like- US, European, Japanese... country of manufacture is WAY, W A Y down the list of my priorities.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

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    carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,498
    roadburner said:

    I buy what I like- US, European, Japanese... country of manufacture is WAY, W A Y down the list of my priorities.


    Ok, how 'bout a Geely? ;)
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Why not? They haven't ruined Volvo.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I've been amused by some recent political talk about 'bringing jobs back to America". I wonder if these guys even realize that automakers have eliminated some jobs forever, regardless of where the car is made. Automation has resulted in fewer employees and greater productivity. Those jobs are not coming back, so the "political point" is worthless.
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    I've been amused by some recent political talk about 'bringing jobs back to America". I wonder if these guys even realize that automakers have eliminated some jobs forever, regardless of where the car is made. Automation has resulted in fewer employees and greater productivity. Those jobs are not coming back, so the "political point" is worthless.

    AND some of the jobs are being exported - Ford and GM both moving some production out of the country. Meanwhile other foreign nameplates continue to ramp up US production. Fact is, the country nameplate is pretty much irrelevant. If somebody wants to be patriotic, buy a vehicle with a high domestic content, regardless of nameplate.

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,169
    edited August 2015
    And which regime you want to support - I have problems supporting a maker that is a de facto link to the PRC government.

    I also have trouble thinking of spending 55K on a 4cyl sedan built in Alabama.
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    fintail said:

    And which regime you want to support - I have problems supporting a maker that is a de facto link to the PRC government.

    I also have trouble thinking of spending 55K on a 4cyl sedan built in Alabama.

    Which maker is a link to the PRC government that is sold in the US today?

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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2015
    I think that was in reference to "would you buy a Chery?" So I guess the answer would be Volvo, assuming the PRC government has a hand in Chery's operations.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,169
    Volvo of course, owned by an entity (Geely) from a place where you must kow-tow to the regime, or you won't be allowed to exist.

    To be fair, Geely seems to be doing a decent job, at least at the moment. The brand is hugely popular among expats here now, too.
    tlong said:

    fintail said:

    And which regime you want to support - I have problems supporting a maker that is a de facto link to the PRC government.

    I also have trouble thinking of spending 55K on a 4cyl sedan built in Alabama.

    Which maker is a link to the PRC government that is sold in the US today?

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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2015
    Ah, Geely, not Chery - didn't mean to steal your thunder @Fintail.

    Wonder how much influence the PRC has over GM China? (I drove a Buick this morning and my wife was telling me that US Buick sales are down. I'm sure they're up in China).
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    stever said:

    I think that was in reference to "would you buy a Chery?" So I guess the answer would be Volvo, assuming the PRC government has a hand in Chery's operations.

    I can see it both ways - I don't like the idea of supporting China's government but then we have tons of items (like your iPhones) that are made in China so ultimately we are pretty hypocritical, all of us.

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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Volvo is supposed to start importing Chinese built vehicles for sale here soon. So is Buick - something between an Encore and an Enclave.

    My youngest daughter was built in China so I guess I don't have much room to talk.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,169
    edited August 2015
    One can vote with their wallets, no matter where something is built. Nothing hypocritical about that. I won't buy a car brand where the profit supports that astoundingly crooked and untouchable regime, I also have a phone that wasn't made in China. For some products, there is choice. This is possible until the corporations who are people too are able to buy their way into removing country of origin data on all products, as they have done on so many already.

    I think the Chinese-built Volvo will be the LWB S60, which is an answer to a question not asked by anyone in this market. It's made for those with means to ride around in at home without attracting too much attention, before they buy an escape path property an ocean away.
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Volvo! Chinese money at any rate.
    tlong said:

    fintail said:

    And which regime you want to support - I have problems supporting a maker that is a de facto link to the PRC government.

    I also have trouble thinking of spending 55K on a 4cyl sedan built in Alabama.

    Which maker is a link to the PRC government that is sold in the US today?

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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    fintail said:

    One can vote with their wallets, no matter where something is built. Nothing hypocritical about that. I won't buy a car brand where the profit supports that astoundingly crooked and untouchable regime, I also have a phone that wasn't made in China.

    I admire your consistency. Most people aren't so consistent. We trade with these countries and then they hack our corporate and government systems like crazy. Something not right there.


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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Monkey see, monkey do.

    Wikileaks: U.S. spied on Japanese government, corporations (UPI)

    My guess is that there's a similar story for China (and Germany etc.)
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    fezo said:

    Volvo is supposed to start importing Chinese built vehicles for sale here soon. So is Buick - something between an Encore and an Enclave.

    My youngest daughter was built in China so I guess I don't have much room to talk.

    More than likely the new Buick Envision will be built at the same Mexican plant as the new Chevy Equinox as they share the same platform.
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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,169
    Kind of like with the endless IP theft - when you're untouchable, you can do what you want. And a "most favored" "partner" is as close to untouchable as is possible.

    Regarding the spying, I doubt the US was doing it to steal trade secrets and IP. It's more like a bored CIA/NSA other money pit government organization doing something with its free time. I'd be more worried about Israel spying on the US than the US spying on Germany. Mitsubishi is funny to read there, maybe spy on it to make sure you don't make the same mistakes?
    tlong said:


    I admire your consistency. Most people aren't so consistent. We trade with these countries and then they hack our corporate and government systems like crazy. Something not right there.


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    scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Buying American. If only Americans were more educated on what it truly means to buy American products and services. If Americans understood what happens to their money where it goes, what it means to their own financial future. What it means to their children s future, grand children s future. How sending your money overseas takes away from our own countries ability to grow and be competitive. Think about it.
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    What really takes away from children and grandchildren is the self-destruction of our industrial base. Of the 7 vehicles that are considered American built only two are American nameplates and they are both Buicks.

    All the companies are owned by people all over the globe.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Everything goes in cycles. My last two pair of New Balance sneaks were made in the USA.
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    andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    To me buying American means spending exorbitantly more on replacement parts, tow trucks, and repair labor. Great for the company that made the shoddy vehicle (probably make more money on replacement parts than the car itself), tow truck companies, and auto repair shops, but bad for any other businesses where I'd otherwise more optimally spend that hard earned money.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    scape2 said:

    Buying American. If only Americans were more educated on what it truly means to buy American products and services. If Americans understood what happens to their money where it goes, what it means to their own financial future. What it means to their children s future, grand children s future. How sending your money overseas takes away from our own countries ability to grow and be competitive. Think about it.

    So what you are saying is that if I buy a US-made Honda, when over 90% of that money stays in the US, that's worse than buying say, a GM which might be made in Canada, or might be going to support a bunch of execs that couldn't run a company well, or a union that helped run the company into the ground? I don't see that logic.

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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Or a Mexican Ford that seems so in fashion thwsw days. Instead of having them cross the border for substandard wages we're moving the plants there. President Trump (perish the thought!) throw a 30% tariff on them, they become more expensive that a comparably built Toyota whatevr Fords do sell the government gets the vig.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,687
    edited August 2015
    andres3 said:

    To me buying American means spending exorbitantly more on replacement parts, tow trucks, and repair labor. Great for the company that made the shoddy vehicle (probably make more money on replacement parts than the car itself), tow truck companies, and auto repair shops, but bad for any other businesses where I'd otherwise more optimally spend that hard earned money.

    Here, maybe this will make you feel better...
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    Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If American products cannot compete globally, then it's time to fix that problem on our end. Protectionism against foreign competition gives you vehicles like French cars or Trabants---do you really want that?
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    berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I agree. D3 gave away market to Japan Inc. back in the late 70's and 80's through ever increasing prices for ever decreasing quality. Detroit is just starting to get back on level terms today. Sad. Even sadder, UAW work rules are pushing Detroit into Mexican plants. I think they both need to change their operating formula if they want a bright future. Conventional trucks and SUV's aren't likely to rule forever.
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    uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,107
    I always have to chuckle at these age-old conversations. People who buy only foreign makes always point out the extremes, just as other American-only buyers do...as if all 'Big Three' models are built elsewhere and all Asian models are built here. It's easy to look at a price label and consider both--there are American brands that are based in the U.S. that have high domestic content and engine and trans built in the U.S. (I do believe those two items aren't part of the content percentage). Buy what you like, but don't call somebody an idiot for having their choice. I've seen that a zillion times on Edmunds.

    I had an oil change done on the wife's Malibu this morning at our local dealer's brand-spanking-new facility. If I didn't have two kids at Miami U. now, I'd consider a '15 Malibu with what I saw you can get a 1LT for, not counting my few-thousand in GM card rebate. I was hoping to see a '16 Impala in the new dark green I've heard about, but too early yet.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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    fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    Buy what you want is the real answer to things. I've tried to keep to that. Had a few missteps along the way but they were of the better for the family or better for me things.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    uplanderguy said:

    I always have to chuckle at these age-old conversations. People who buy only foreign makes always point out the extremes, just as other American-only buyers do...as if all 'Big Three' models are built elsewhere and all Asian models are built here. It's easy to look at a price label and consider both--there are American brands that are based in the U.S. that have high domestic content and engine and trans built in the U.S. (I do believe those two items aren't part of the content percentage). Buy what you like, but don't call somebody an idiot for having their choice. I've seen that a zillion times on Edmunds.

    Two comments:

    1 - It would be surprising if the domestic content number doesn't include engine and trans - I mean all that is left is the body. That would be really stupid if true. Any data to support that either way?
    2 - I haven't actually seen people called idiots here in the Edmund's forums. Perhaps I'm missing something. Certainly not "a zillion times".

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    fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,169
    Buy what you like - and if you assert debatable logic to defend it, maybe be prepared to be questioned. If one is really secure, they won't need to defend their choice too loudly.
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    uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,107
    edited August 2015
    1 - It would be surprising if the domestic content number doesn't include engine and trans - I mean all that is left is the body. That would be really stupid if true. Any data to support that either way?

    I'm not talking parts content of engine and trans, but assembly location.

    And surely you remember the old GM thread here. I can rattle off three or four names, but of course I won't.

    EDIT: I'm looking at the 2011 window sticker of our Chevy, although I can't say if this has changed since or not:

    "NOTE: PARTS CONTENT DOES NOT INCLUDE FINAL ASSEMBLY, DISTRIBUTION, OR OTHER NON-PARTS COSTS".

    It's interesting to note (for me, anyway), that U.S./Canadian parts content is down from 75% on my 2011 Malibu, to 62% on a 2015, although the "Country of Origin" for the transmission was 'Mexico' for mine (grrr) but 'United States' on the 2015 car.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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    uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,107
    edited August 2015
    Someone above mentioned the Equinox (maybe the "new" one) is/will be made in Mexico. I hadn't heard that. The Equinox for years has been made in Ontario. And I was of the understanding that Ford moved Fusion production to Michigan from Mexico. I know GM plans to move Camaro production from Canada to Michigan. The Sonic replaced the unlamented Aveo, and is built in Michigan. No bad in any of that.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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    robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    uplanderguy said:

    Someone above mentioned the Equinox (maybe the "new" one) is/will be made in Mexico. I hadn't heard that. The Equinox for years has been made in Ontario. And I was of the understanding that Ford moved Fusion production to Michigan from Mexico. I know GM plans to move Camaro production from Canada to Michigan. The Sonic replaced the unlamented Aveo, and is built in Michigan. No bad in any of that.

    That is the plan. When the new SRX goes into Spring Hill, TN, the next gen Equinox and the new Buick Envision will take over the San Ramos plant where the SRX is now. AFAIK, nothing is planned to fill the Oshawa and Ingersoll plants. Maybe the old Equinox will replace the Captiva as the rental fleet queen for a few years.
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    Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,971
    Folks, buy what floats your boat and if others have a problem with your choice...tough! If you're not paying the note, your opinion isn't needed or wanted. Any positive comments are accepted but any negativity will not be entertained at all. Seriously, we all have different reasons for driving what we do, all valid to the individual.

    The Sandman :)B)

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

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    uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,107
    edited August 2015
    Thanks for the info, robr2. When I was shopping for my Cobalt, 92K miles ago, I would've liked an HHR but they were built in Mexico and based solely on that, I passed. I couldn't understand when it was a Cobalt platform, why they weren't built alongside the Cobalt, forty miles down the road from me.

    The Cobalt is the brunt of jokes, but I have two and have no plans on getting rid of either. I haven't even put a battery in the one I bought new.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
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    tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited August 2015
    uplanderguy said:

    1 - It would be surprising if the domestic content number doesn't include engine and trans - I mean all that is left is the body. That would be really stupid if true. Any data to support that either way?

    I'm not talking parts content of engine and trans, but assembly location.

    And surely you remember the old GM thread here. I can rattle off three or four names, but of course I won't.

    EDIT: I'm looking at the 2011 window sticker of our Chevy, although I can't say if this has changed since or not:

    "NOTE: PARTS CONTENT DOES NOT INCLUDE FINAL ASSEMBLY, DISTRIBUTION, OR OTHER NON-PARTS COSTS".

    It's interesting to note (for me, anyway), that U.S./Canadian parts content is down from 75% on my 2011 Malibu, to 62% on a 2015, although the "Country of Origin" for the transmission was 'Mexico' for mine (grrr) but 'United States' on the 2015 car.

    Uplander, thanks for the info on the domestic content - so it really is "domestic parts content" and not "domestic parts+labor content". I wonder what percent of total costs the labor represents versus the parts? So if parts, labor were 50% each of total cost, then an 80% domestic parts content vehicle would be more like 90% total *value* if assembled in the US, but only like 40% total *value* if assembled outside the US. In my opinion the value is the most important factor since it is what directly impacts the local economy. Of course as the labor value goes above 50% it becomes more important, and vice versa.

    Does anybody know how much the labor represents in terms of the total cost of a vehicle?

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    steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2015
    This link seems pretty believable (Quora).

    "10-15% of a vehicle's cost is labor

    Another 20-30% of the cost is materials

    50-60% of a vehicle's cost is "overhead"

    5% is profit (sometimes a little more, sometimes a whole lot less)"

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