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Comments
MY SOLUTION: Put electrical tape over the "check engine" indicator and STOP WORRYING. Your car will not fall apart, it will not be damaged, all parts are replaceable (alternators, starters, radiators, etc). Once that "check engine" indicator is out of sight, you will be back to a calm lifestyle and behaving like you use to in the old days (you will start loving your car again...and remember, they are more reliable over the past). All this feature has done is prove to be unreliable, and shops are profiting by replacing one part after another just in hopes the dang light goes off (and you pay, some owners even sell their vehicle from being upset). This feature has also caused many mechanics to rely on their code scanners, and unfortunately their losing the art of diagnosing (usually means listening for noise, looking for leaks, checking compression for signs of a healthy engine). They rely on the code, replace your part, and take your money....and show you the code print out to convince you their not ripping you off. Then they take the old part and usually install it in their own vehicle....that happens a lot...and their perfectly happy.
The point is if it's not broken, don't fix it. Forget about this check engine feature and repair only when you have a definite problem you can feel as you drive.
My friend has a 92 Buick Regal, his check engine started acting up within 6 months, and it never ended...it was intermittent and would be off whenever he shows up to the dealer most of the time....a total waste of time when he should be at work. Well, he thought he had a bad vehicle , he placed black tape over the check engine indicator and never looked at it since, the vehicle has been extremely reliable, and consumer reports has rated it highly. He pulled the sticker back and saw the light ON....he then taped it down again and did nothing. His own words....... "its a bunch of [non-permissible content removed], the car wears as you drive it, as the car gets older all the parts will have worn, to keep the light off you would have to rebuild the whole car to keep that light off...... it's a handly tool (if not corroded) when you cannot diagnose a problem the old fashion way, but don't let it rule you or tell you when you must do repairs, use it only as an aid and remembering even the codes are not reliable (how can they be if the sensor is covered in mud).
http://forum.onecenter.com/bat
I can't wait to see what you say there.
It's such a classic example of urban mythology that I think it deserves a thorough rebuttal of the type 0patience has started.
Your host, Bruce.
I think I have a clue now. {8^D
Bruce
First, I agree there is a language error. After reading it, I noticed it is rather difficult to interpret. When I used the term CHECK ENGINE FEATURE, I was referring to the entire system, not to the CHECK ENGINE" LIGHT". I guess to spell it out .... check engine light means go check the codes, which means go check the computer. I agree that the light is only an indication that there is a problem. By saying it is a tool, I was referring to the entire system making life easier for everyone (although not always giving us what we want). It is a tool because it is designed to help...tools do that!
Second, I do not know all the answers, neither does Opatience nor anyone else. If we view the previous responses, it is apparent that even dealers send customers home without a solution all the time.
Third, my intention was to simply tell people not to get all upset about their check engine "light" on the dashboard going on. Many people get upset, frustrated that the car may be a lemon, and looking at a flickering light at night can get dangerous. My belief is if the car runs fine, sounds fine, there are no indications of any problem, then disregard that light. If there truly is a problem, then sooner or later you will start hearing, seeing, feeling the problem as it worsens. Sometimes, its just better to wait till your sure. I did not say that a car (or a computer will run on 1/3 of the system down...Opatience !) If you read it again, I said if the car runs fine, leave it alone...the light does not always mean there is a problem.
Fourth, I did not pretend I know all the answers, nor am I lacking knowledge on this subject as you may think. I am not a mechanic, I am a professional in Marketing Management, but one of my hobbies is auto repairs. I have done full restorations starting from the frame to complete re-assembly of the vehicle, and also overhaul all major components. In fact there is nothing I haven't done...including complete body work and full restoration of all upholstery (trained by a friend....builder of limousines and race cars). I doubt many mechanics are knowledgeable about this area (upholstery). I am sure there are few things you or I both don't know and need answers too. Were all learning, not just here to brag, better our self-image, be top dog, etc.
Fifth, I came here not to argue, I to enjoy helping people as Opatience does. People make mistakes in wording (I'm and example...I was in a rush). However, the essence of the email seems to stand on its own, no one argued about the issues discussed (eg- is placing tape over the light a good idea or not).
Sixth, as a marketer I would like to point out a secondary purpose for that idiot light on our dashboard. It is there not only to warn of a problem, but also to create the sense of urgency/fear....to go after our need for safety (a basic urge under Maslows Need Hierarchy theory...for all sociology/psch majors). It is beneficial in generating extra business for manufacturers and dealers (service depts). I would like to see the industry do something about that annoying light.
I came here to read peoples opinions regarding reliability of different vans. If it is this much trouble to contribute, and I must spend the time to proofread and correct every little error I may make...then my answer is "it isn't worth it".
This isn't a board meeting, if people make grammatical or other errors...just accept it, and don't insult them.
Xfiles
It is from that perspective that I try to tell people to stop running to the mechanics each time the check engine idiot light goes on. If it everything feels fine, leave it alone. If there is a "real" problem you will soon know as the part continues to worsen. It boils down to some people might prefer my suggestion, and others would rather follow by the rules.....some of us have a different approach to spending our money.
I bet mechanics will throw a fit when I say this, but I am here to save us money, not to make you guys money.
This is a public forum to discuss all sides of the issue. Since no one had complained in here, that article (#102) should not have been hidden. Seems Opatience asks you to jump, and you right away ask "how high". That article was was about saving people aggravation and some money.
The comments by the moderator were uncalled for, in my opinion my harsh words are justified. If you want to dish it out, then maybe you need a little back.
Xfiles
Why don't you click here to review your User's Agreement and maybe you will understand better.
My tongue-in-cheek post following Bruce's may have contributed to your misundertandings, so I'm going to go back and delete it.
Your posts are welcome here, as long as you abide by the User Agreement.
Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We must remember that in the old days we didn't
have sensors in our component parts(eg-brake pads)
or a "check engine feature". So we drove our cars
and never worried about our vehicles until there
was a noise, rough idle, bad ride/steering, the
brakes squeal,, something is leaking, or the car
stopped. Those were the days when mechanics knew
how to analyze problems(Diagnostics)...the hardest
thing to do, and replacing the part was the easy
part of the job. Well, with the introduction of the
"check engine" feature this was supposed to make
it easier for the mechanic to diagnose a problem,
and to increase profits for shops due to time saved
diagnosing. Unfortunately, these sensors live in a
harsh environment under our engine hood and wheel
wells (mud, salt, water spray, cold, heat)....and
soon they begin to fail, so the light comes on and
we get all excited....then the light becomes
intermittent and it drives us nuts. All were
experiencing is sensors getting dirty (CORROSION),
it does not mean the part is bad, it could even be
the product is slightly out of specification from
use (but not worn out...perfectly normal). I heard
a woman complaining to Toyota that her car is a
lemon over a simple check engine light. We react it
seems to "check engine" lights as we do to a
police light flashing behind us....we get all upset
for no reason.
MY SOLUTION: Put electrical tape over the "check
engine" indicator and STOP WORRYING. Your car will
not fall apart, it will not be damaged, all parts
are replaceable (alternators, starters, radiators,
etc). Once that "check engine" indicator is out of
sight, you will be back to a calm lifestyle and
behaving like you use to in the old days (you will
start loving your car again...and remember, they
are more reliable over the past). All this feature
has done is prove to be unreliable, and shops are
profiting by replacing one part after another just
in hopes the dang light goes off (and you pay, some
owners even sell their vehicle from being upset).
This feature has also caused many mechanics to
rely on their code scanners, and unfortunately
their losing the art of diagnosing (usually means
listening for noise, looking for leaks, checking
compression for signs of a healthy engine). They
rely on the code, replace your part, and take your
money....and show you the code print out to
convince you their not ripping you off. Then they
take the old part and usually install it in their
own vehicle....that happens a lot...and their
perfectly happy.
The point is if it's not broken, don't fix it.
Forget about this check engine feature and repair
only when you have a definite problem you can feel
as you drive.
My friend has a 92 Buick Regal, his check engine
started acting up within 6 months, and it never
ended...it was intermittent and would be off
whenever he shows up to the dealer most of the
time....a total waste of time when he should be at
work. Well, he thought he had a bad vehicle , he
placed black tape over the check engine indicator
and never looked at it since, the vehicle has been
extremely reliable, and consumer reports has rated
it highly. He pulled the sticker back and saw the
light ON....he then taped it down again and did
nothing. His own words....... "its a bunch of
********, the car wears as you drive it, as the car
gets older all the parts will have worn, to keep
the light off you would have to rebuild the whole
car to keep that light off...... it's a handly tool
(if not corroded) when you cannot diagnose a
problem the old fashion way, but don't let it rule
you or tell you when you must do repairs, use it
only as an aid and remembering even the codes are
not reliable (how can they be if the sensor is
covered in mud).
Your host, Bruce
My reasons to not worry about the light:
1. How did we ever survive before we had
a computer system and engine codes, no
check engine light. For critical systems, like
brakes or oil loss we have always had a red
little idiot light to warn us. Not perfect, but
it helped....and rarely did it give false error
messages.
2. We have to accept some risks. To date I am
not aware of a sensor to let us know when
our timing belt will fail, or our fan belt, and a
host of other things. It is called regular
maintenance to keep us out of trouble. Also,
even with the systems now, we still get
catastrophic failures. My friends crankshaft,
on his Jeep cherokee failed (1997 model with
71,000 miles)...he needed another motor (used and installed was $3100). Whats surprising is the front failed rather
then at the back where most of
the stress is. This should not have happened,
but it did. I should of won the lottery, but
I didn't.....things happen...we win some and we lose some! I could replace the entire
engine with a rebuilt (or tranny) on an
automobile (this is a car forum...not truck)
with the amount I have saved using my
system (and it won't cost $10,000).
Five of my friends now have gone back to
the old way by covering it up (They all do
their own maintenance). When they actually
feel a problem they then go read the codes,
They love the extra help , and so do I once I
notice I definitely feel, see, hear, smell, a
problem. It's about saving the consumer
money and aggravation. I think many people
panic when the light is first noticed...we never
had that problem in the old days before
computers.
3. I would love a research study on types of
repairs done. I would bet 80% of the repairs
are not for catastrophic failures. In other
words most of the time we are in the shop for
smaller things. Each time we go in, each time
they can't find the cause for that light to
remain on.....it costs consumers big money.
My previous article already discussed the
concept of spending in net dollars....a $60
rate is like being charged $200/hour in
gross dollars. Thats what you have to earn
first before you have $60 in the bank to pay
the service desk......OUCH !!!
4. I also believe that even if there is a problem
just starting, sometimes we cannot find the
noise, etc. Sometimes it is better to let the
part wear down (eg- a shock making a
slight noise)...then bring it to the mechanic.
Sometimes were too early to the shop, only
because the check engine light went on. At
this point when it is too early we don;'t know
if we really have a problem or is it just due
to "false error message". Sometimes its
better to wait. Taping up that check engine
light encourages you to only repair things
you can really see and feel as you drive.
I see your point, but I think a research study is in order (thats what marketing people always say). With good data we make better decisions. I am not saying you are wrong, but there are many people thinking my way also (a few posts in here I found where the person was upset over the engine light and his frequent returns for the same problem. All I am saying is my friends and I have been perfectly happy going back to the old days when that check engine light was not visible. Yet when there is a problem, bet we are reading those codes, I like starting with the easy way also.
I think that as we add more sensors in the future, that statistically the correlation between the number of sensors and the frequency of the light going on will increase. This is only my hypothesis....as I say, I always believe in research (a habit of mine). We need more reliability perhaps, so that we have reduced "false errors" that the consumer is paying for.
Well, I would like to end this discussion. I have no more to add, it's only my opinion, but it has worked for me and my few friends as well as for everyone in the old days before computers (when we were less frustrated and less aware of every little thing that acts up in our car).....we lived with imperfection back then. Our check engine light has sensitized the marketplace (and manufacturers and dealers love it).
Xfiles
P.S: Sorry for the poor formatting and the rather long article. I would love an on/off button next to the check engine light to avoid ugly tape.
"That I agree to disagree in a civil manner should I take issue with the statements of another town hall participant."
"That I will not harass, threaten, or impersonate any townhall participants"
Seems I broke a rule (profane word), I apologize, but I see Opatience has broken some too. I did not expect this to turn into a nuisance for you. I wrote my first article......then Opatience started with the harassment and insults (to discredit and ridicule me). That is not what I call civil behaviour by your rules.
Seems to me that Opatience is apologizing to the wrong people.
Xfiles
mechanics point of view....try to induce fear, and
make some money for the dealer (also there may be
liability issues involved for you).I have nothing to gain by it,because it doesn't make a difference to me,I don't deal with a customer.Taping the light over is not fixing the problem,it is cobbling,or whatever you want to call it.I have been pretty civil,I thought.
I believe you CAN have an impassioned and heated argument and still remain civil. Look at the British House of Lords (and sometimes the House of Commons), although there have been some fistfights over the years I suppose...
your host, Bruce
Now that they have a catch-all "something is wrong" light, they can eliminate other lights (or, more likely, "not add" new ones that really should exist).
That means that if you hide the "something" light, you may never get any other indication until the car suddenly stops working at all.
Unfortunately, it seems that the US government (and probably other countries' as well) have now mandated "check" conditions for anything that might cause an increase in tailpipe emissions, as well as for "fuel tank" emissions (pressure sensors in the tank etc.), as part of the OBD-II system. This makes it easy for their "agents", if you will -- the smog-test people in various states -- to look at the dashboard and see if your car has passed the government-spec tests inside itself. Since there is just the one "big red question mark", as it were (okay, my light is actually yellow), there is no easy way to tell "temporary glitch in airflow sensor" or "loose gas cap alert" apart from "she canna take much more of this captain!" (Star Trek ref.; imagine Scotty saying that).
Your car may or may not have OBD-II (depends on the vintage of the computers inside it), and if it does, there seem to be some variations on physical connector layout and such. I would like to find some way to connect mine to a laptop I could carry around inside the car. In fact, what I really want is a way to read out all the parameters and sensor-readings in the car, so that I could collect them up in files and pore over my own car's performance data later, and maybe even tune it (adjust auto transmission shiftpoints, etc) whenever I feel like it. :-)
Chris
The EZ Link scanner can do most of the things you are looking for.It cannot reprogram though.But it is a relatively inexpensive for a scanner that can do OBD2 and the older OBD sytems,it is around $450,I think.And compared to the system I use($2,000) and some of the less expensive units($900)It is a reasonable price.Anyway,it is an option.
THE BIGGEST FEARS NOT GETTING TO WORK, AND MISSING TIME. MANY PEOPLE LIVE WEEK TO WEEK ON THEIR PAYCHECKS. AND FOR AN HOURS WORTH OF WORK ON THAT VEHICLE IT COSTS US TWO DAYS PAY, OR MORE.
MY PAST VISITS HAVE COST ME, A WEEK OR MORE OF MY WAGES.
AND WHEN YOU PAY TO HAVE THE LIGHT FIXED AND IT KEEPS COMING BACK ON. YOUR FRUSTRATED, YOU LOSE CONFIDENCE IN MECHANICS,
AND YOUR WAY STRESSED OVER WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO KEEP GETTING MONEY TO HOPEFULLY FINALLY GET IT FIXED...
MY LIGHT STAYED ON FOR TWO YEARS
WITH THE CAR RUNNING JUST FINE.
A MECHANIC TOLD ME IT WAS THE 02 SENSOR, AND IF IT RAN OKAY TO JUST KEEP RUNNING IT.......
IM SURE YOUR ALL GOOD MECHANICS.
BUT TO BE THE VERY BEST MECHANIC
YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND AND HAVE PATIENCE WITH US.....
THERE ARE GOOD AND BAD MECHANICS
JUST LIKE THERE IS GOOD AND BAD
EVERYTHING ELSE IN LIFE.....
99% OF THE TIME I HAVE THE MISFORTUNE OF GETTING THE BAD MANNERED, RUDE, I KNOW IT ALL MECHANICS. I HAVE BEEN TAKEN ON SOME LONG, EXPENSIVE RIDES.
ONCE I GOT TO WATCH THREW A WINDOW AS MY CAR WAS BEING WORKED ON. I TIMED THE MECHANIC
HE HAD MY CAR IN THERE FOR 4 HOURS, AND WORKED ON IT A TOTAL OF 1 HOUR........ HE KEPT RUNNING FROM MY CAR TO OTHER PEOPLES CARS, DOING QUICK OIL CHANGES ECT. YET I GOT CHARGED FOR THE FULL 4 HOURS!!!!!!!!!
WHEN MY BRAND NEW CAR WAS TOWED TO THE DEALERS 3 TIMES IN ONE WEEK, I WAS UPSET THE SECOND TIME FROM MISSING WORK, AND THE MECHANIC ARGUED, THREATENED ME THAT I WOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR PARTS,THAT HE WAS REPLACING BECASUE HE COULDNT FIGURE OUT EXACTLY WHAT WAS WRONG, I STARTED STICKING UP FOR MYSELF.
ON MY THIRD VISIT I HEARD HIM CALL ME A NASTY NAME TO HIS FRIENDS WHEN HE SAW ME COMING AGAIN ..
I TOLD HIM WHAT AS WRONG WITH MY CAR AND THAT I KNEW IT WAS A FACTORY DEFECT.
AND IF HE DIDN'T FIX IT RIGHT THIS TIME, THEY COULD HAVE IT BACK, I WOULD PUSH IT RIGHT THREW THEIR SHOWCASE WINDOW!!!!
WHAT GOT ME WRITING THIS, WAS I READ SOMETHINGS IN HERE THAT REMINDED ME OF THAT MECHANIC.
A MAN WAS TRYING TO WRITE HIS OPINION AT THIS SITE, HE WAS NOT A MECHANIC, AND HE DIDN'T WRITE AS CLEARLY AS HE SHOULD HAVE, (BUT I UNDERSTOOD HIM) YET A CERTAIN MECHANIC, INSULTED HIM.
BECAUSE HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND THE MANS POINT OF VIEW, FROM ANYTHING BUT A MECHANICS POINT OF VIEW.................
THE MAN TRYING TO EXPLAIN HIS POINT OF VIEW WENT BY THE NAME OF XFILES.................
XFILES SAID THAT THIS LIGHT PUTS FEAR IN US ALL.
THOSE OF US WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS LIGHT GOING ON, KNOW HE IS 100% RIGHT THERE......
HE ALSO SAID IF YOUR CAR IS RUNNING FINE, TAPE THE LIGHT. SO YOU DON'T GO CRAZY LOOKING AT IT.........
NOT SUCH AN INSANE IDEA WHEN IF THE CAR IS RUNNING, WITH NO APPARENT PROBLEMS YOUR GOING TO
KEEP DRIVING, AS ONE YOU PROBABLY HAVE NO CHOICE AND TWO
YOUR NOT VERY LIKLY TO GET AN APPOINTMENT FOR A FEW DAYS AT THE GARAGE, ANYWAYS...........
TO YOU MECHANICS, THIS MAN MAY HAVE SEEMED LIKE YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE........
BUT TO ME THE NONMECHANIC, WHO HAS, TAKEN MY CAR TO THE GARAGE,
HAS HAD ATTEMPTS AT FIXING IT,
THEN BEING TOLD ITS THE 02 SENSOR JUST DRIVE IT.....
WELL THIS GUY HIT HOME WITH ME.
HE KNOWS THE VALUE OF MONEY, THE EXPENSE OF GARAGES. AND THAT THE LIGHT COMING ON DOESN;T ALWAYS MEAN AN EMERGENY......
I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO DO DRIVE
WITH THAT LIGHT ON, AND THEIR CARS RUN JUST FINE..........
IM SURE THIS MAN DID NOT MEAN TO IGNORE THE LIGHT AND NEVER HAVE IT CHECKED OUT.......
ANYONE HERE NOW, DRIVING THERE CAR WITH THAT LIGHT ON????????
HOW MANY TIMES YOU BEEN BACK TO THE GARAGE???????
DOES YOUR CAR DRIVE OKAY?
HOW MUCH MONEY HAVE YOU SPENT, AND HOW FRUSTRATED ARE YOU?????
THE BOTTOM LINE HERE IS. XFILES HAD SOME GOOD POINTS. I BELIEVE HIS INTENTIONS WERE NOT TO HAVE EVERYONE IGNORE THEIR LIGHTS.
HE WAS MAINLY STATING DON'T LET THAT LIGHT DRIVE YOU CRAZY, AND DON'T BE SO FEARFUL OF IT.
IM SURE AS A NONMECHANIC HE WAS JUST TRYING TO EASE EVERYONES FEARS.
I UNDERSTAND HIM SAYING IF THE CAR IS RUNNING GOOD, WHY KEEP RUNNING TO THE GARAGE, TO PAY MORE MONEY, AND STILL END UP WITH THE LIGHT ON? AT LEAST GET SOME OVER TIME AND SAVE FOR THE NEXT VISIT INSTEAD OF USNG YOUR GROCERY MONEY FOR THE WEEK...
I BELIEVE THIS MAN WAS TRYING TO
TALK FROM A CONSUMERS POINT OF VIEW.........
HE WAS MISUNDERSTOOD, FOR THE LACK OF ALL THE RIGHT WORDS.
PROBABLY I WILL BE TOO.
I AM HAPPY TO AT LEAST FIND ONE PERSON WHO IS WILLING TO SPEAK HIS MIND. EVEN IF NO ONE ELSE
UNDERSTANDS HIM BUT ME.AND MAYBE A FEW OTHERS.......
IS THERE ANYONE AT THIS SITE WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT THIS MAN WAS REALLY TRYING TO SAY???????
I SAW HIM AS A MAN WHO WASN'T A MECHANIC, TRYING TO EASE THE FEARS OF THE DREADED LIGHT....
I DIDN'T VIEW HIM AS AN IDIOT
I VIEWED HIM AS A NONMECHANIC,
WHO KNEW WHAT HE WAS TRYING TO SAY, BUT WAS TOTALY MISUNDERSTOOD...........
Bruce
Regarding clearing the codes: Take the battery cables off. after several minutes they will clear. Return cables to their posts. As for how to get codes on a GM vehicle, at least with the MPFI system, where ever you find the plug on which they plug in the scanner at the shop, (This is not always easy to find.) there will be an "A" and a "B" pin location designated. Turn the ignition on but don't start the engine. I use a paper clip to short the two terminals. The check engine light will start to blink once, then twice or a 1-2 code three times. After that the codes will flash with blinks for three times then go on to any other trouble code there may be and repeat it three times. When no codes are left, the light will flash the 1-2 code three more times. As I said, check the Library for the car manual and the codes.
My Lotus has had a "26" code for the three years which I have owned it. This is for "Quad Driver Module" which is longhand for it checking sensors and wiring. Or basically everything if you see the two pages of possibilities in the manual. I finally went to the dealership to see what their "Tech one" scanner showed. It said it could be three different things but the bottom line was that if no other symptoms are evident, "DON'T WORRY". My car still gets 25 MPG and will easily do 130 MPH.
I do appreciate the possibilities ya'll have stated and I will try them out.
GM code retrieval
Chrysler code retrieval
Ford code retrieval
This is now my fourth year, and 60,000 miles, with a brightly burning check engine light, Should burn out soon!
Think about it. $65.00 and hour times one million check engine lights, you do the math.
I guess most of you knew I wouldn't leave this one alone.Ha ha.
Would suggest you never go back to that den of thieves.
Now, 3 months later, it came on again. Decided to take it to a local Chevy dealer. The ran the diagnostics, and told me I need a new 02 sensor and a new ECM. $1400. Ouch.
Having a basic distrust of dealerships, I decided to try and get a copy of the diagnostic report, to get the numbers that came up. It took 2 days, and they said they don't print them out, the tech just writes them down. Hmmmm..... Dealer just moved into a new humongous building, all new stuff, and they can't get a printer for this stuff?
Anyway, they say the number was PO136. I checked the GM codes that were posted in this forum, and they were all 2 digits #'s. I'm I being taken for a ride? Anyone able to help, I would greatly appreciate it!!!
Thanks,
Steve
-Colin
Buy an o2 sensor yourself, they are not expensive. Replace that and then disconnect the battery overnight. Reconnect in the morning and when you start the engine, let it warm up and don't touch any controls until the idle stabilizes. This should reset any soft codes.
After that if the light comes back on then you can consider additional repairs. I wouldn't want to just fork over $1400 without trying this first, and I'm sure you feel the same.
-Colin
The guy at Chevy told me that probably what happened is the O2 sensor overheated, and shorted out the ECM. Wouldn't the car stall or run rough if the ECM was bad? I thought that thing was relatively important? The car runs fine.
Thanks again,
Steve
Thanks again - you've been a big help to us and many others here.
Later,
Steve
From my knowledge of electronics I can tell you this. I have not had hands on experience of automotive computers but the same would apply in your case. The oxygen sensor is a low voltage high impedance device and its typical operating voltage ranges from 0.10 volt to 0.90 volts output. The input resistance to the computer from the O2 sensor is high. Therefore, the computer should suffer no damage should the O2 sensor go short circuit.
Only in the case of a low impedance output from the computer as in the driver for an injector for example, is it possible that damage may occur if that output is shorted. Hopefully, the computer fuse would have blown first.
To sum up. I think that the mechanic that told you a shorted O2 sensor damaged your computer is taking a chance.
The O2 sensor is one of the most important devices in in the system and is cheap and easy to replace. It allows the computer to go into "closed loop control" in order to fine tune fuel consumption and emissions. If the sensor is bad the computer runs in "open loop mode" and, eventually, "limp home" mode with a loss of performance. If the fuel mixture is too rich there is also a danger of damaging the catalytic converter. How on earth does such a vehicle pass a smog check anyway?
The dealer that we went to is advertising that they are adding a hair salon and diner to their building. I guess they plan on customers spending ALL their money there.
Later,
Steve
Oh well, beats $1400!!!
Thanks again,
Steve
The O2 sensor in the Prelude was marginal and did not bring the Check Engine light on. However, after replacing it the car passed the smog check with flying colors. I also noticed a distinct improvement in performance.