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Can VW Overtake Toyota and GM To Become #1?

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Comments

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Here's a long shot, VW and FCA start some possible merger talk???
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Tough, even ignoring the mutual dislike in the exec suites. VW has such weird ownership and that Saxony state isn't going to roll over for an "Italian" influence.

    An outright buy makes more sense but VW won't have the financing now.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    VW is getting hit from all sides.

    Auto supplier Bosch sued in Alabama for conspiring with Volkswagen (al.com)

    Rhetorical question. Alabama does not have mandatory smog checks. So did VW cars actually break the law if no test was performed? I agree that Bosch should be scrutinized as well. And I would imagine they are scrambling to prove they warned VW about the Defeat Software they sold them.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Does a tree die of acid rain in the forest if no one is around to hear it crumble?

    From today's hearing, "EPA reiterates that VW diesel vehicles don't comply with federal or CA emissions regulations right now."

    Sounds like there's a federal violation and for those states who don't do it themselves like California, my guess is that they adopt the federal regs for any state clean air laws.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    In other news, Lance Armstrong is in talks to become the new face of VW worldwide.

    "It's not about the NOx".
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    Does a tree die of acid rain in the forest if no one is around to hear it crumble?

    From today's hearing, "EPA reiterates that VW diesel vehicles don't comply with federal or CA emissions regulations right now."

    Sounds like there's a federal violation and for those states who don't do it themselves like California, my guess is that they adopt the federal regs for any state clean air laws.

    I think it is way overblown on the NOx. A VW Golf TDI even at 40 times is not as much as what a semi diesel is allowed. And we know there are far more than 482K Semi rigs cruising the highways at any given time. A semi diesel is allowed 8.613 Grams per mile. That is 123 times as much as .07 G/mile the VW TDI is allowed. The worst they saw was 40 times. Most was less than 20 times or 1.40 G/mile. One semi truck will probably go at least 100k miles a year. So each semi emits about 40 times as much per year as the worst offending VW TDI
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Does a tree die of acid rain in the forest if no one is around to hear it crumble?

    Our trees have much worse enemies than NOx. Not even sure it would not help kill some of the evil critters wiping out our tree population. Our trees did much better with lots of smog.

    Gold Spotted Oak Borer wiping out native Coastal Live Oaks(Quercus agrifolia) by the tens of thousands throughout SD county?

    The Pines and Eucalyptus are being decimated by beetles. The county mandates trimming to avoid lines and the beetles go right into the opening for lunch.

    http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2014/dec/09/stringers-torrey-pines-infested-100-trees-doomed/#

    And our Oleanders are all dying off by a bacteria called leaf scorch.

    http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7480.html
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The California Golden Borers? Aren't they on a flag somewhere?

    NOx may be a lesser enemy thanks to acid rain regs passed in 1990. And yeah, more needs to be done to clean it up.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2015
    Car and Driver reports that Bugatti may be singled out for cost cutting. On the plus side, the number of affected vehicles may be less than the 11 million reported.

    VW could be like FCA - continue the Chattanooga Passat and finish the new line there and built luxury SUVs. Let the American SUV buyers keep the rest of the company afloat until they get beyond DieselGate. Unfortunately they don't have an iconic vehicle like the Jeep to build on.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Unfortunately they don't have an iconic vehicle like the Jeep to build on.

    The Touareg TDI will blow the sox off anything Jeep builds. I don't recall Jeep ever winning any real prestigious races like Dakar. And the 2011 Touareg TDI holds the long distance record from tip of So America to Prudhoe Bay AK. 16,000 miles in 11 days 17 hours.

    If you mean they don't have a cheap SUV like the Toyota or Honda, you are right. Then they are strictly foo foo street vehicles that are easy for the Baby Boomers to get in and out of. The Touareg did beat out all the competition from Jeep, MB, BMW and Porsche.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-jeep-grand-cherokee-summit-ecodiesel-4x4-vs-2013-volkswagen-touareg-tdi-2013-mercedes-benz-ml350-bluetec-4matic-2013-porsche-cayenne-diesel-2013-bmw-x5-xdrive35d-final-scoring-performance-data-and-complete-specs-page-7
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yeah, but do you think the average buyer even knows what a Touareg is (much less how to pronounce it...)?

    VW's icon is still the Beetle.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That is true. The Beetle is still the symbol of VW in the USA. Not sure it means much in the rest of the World where the Golf is number one. The problem as I see it for diesel is the fact they cannot put the V6 in a less expensive CUV for sale in the USA. I don't see the debacle having much impact on Audi as they mostly use the V6 TDI, Even in the little Q5. Audi is hardly an entry level brand. Though Porsche and Audi are VW's bragging rights in the USA. They did not have much to talk about for the last few years in US sales.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Makes you wonder why we got the Rabbit name instead of "Golf". But early Rabbits had such a bad reputation, it's probably just as well. The Beetle was a hard act to follow.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    From today's Automotive News...

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20151009/OEM06/151009796/vw-diesels-with-operative-emissions-gear-are-slower-and-thirstier


  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    hpmctorque said:

    From today's Automotive News...

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20151009/OEM06/151009796/vw-diesels-with-operative-emissions-gear-are-slower-and-thirstier

    So no problem fixing them to pass emissions, if it was that easy for CR to do it. And the MPG hit still left them far above the EPA estimate of 39 MPG highway on the 2011 Sportswagen and 45 MPG estimate on the 2015 Jetta TDI.

    Makes even less sense why VW made such a stupid move.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Will these steps eventually return the VW Group to #1 in global sales?

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20151013/COPY01/310139970/vw-will-cut-spending-by-1-billion-launch-all-electric-phaeton-in-ev
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't really get expensive halo cars, whether it's the luxury Phaeton or the Ford GT. Seems like the money would be better spent dumping more tech into the Golf, Jetta and Passat.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Not directly linked to DieselGate, but I think the lack of funding for advancing VW in the US gave him doubts.

    Volkswagen Loses Another Top Manager in Wake of Diesel Scandal (Bloomberg)


  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I agree Stever - upscale and lux should be pushed dover to Audi where the margins are bigger. VW needs to spiff up and promote the US assembled Passat more in America.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2015
    Ooh, good point - VW needs to do a "buy from your neighbor" campaign featuring the Chattanooga plant.

    Then they can start playing Toyota-Tupelo in soccer, lol.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Ms. McQuade attended the University of Michigan and worked as a prosecutor in the Detroit office for 12 years before being nominated to the top post. Her family has a long history with the auto industry in Detroit, and she has said her parents met when they worked together at GM."

    And who is Ms. McQuade? She's the aggressive prosecutor who just grabbed a hunk of the VW mess for her office to litigate.

    U.S. Pursues Several Paths in Volkswagen Probe (WSJ - may be a registration link)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The diesel scandal has started to undermine Volkswagen’s sales in Western Europe, according to the latest sales data, but investment banks are taking a surprisingly sanguine view of the likely impact.

    If the impact on sales is going to be serious, the data for October is likely to show a deeper hit."

    Volkswagen Sales Start To Feel The Impact Of Diesel Scandal     (Forbes)

    Went to a small, three couple dinner party last night and one of the spouses had not heard anything about DieselGate.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    "The diesel scandal has started to undermine Volkswagen’s sales in Western Europe, according to the latest sales data, but investment banks are taking a surprisingly sanguine view of the likely impact.

    If the impact on sales is going to be serious, the data for October is likely to show a deeper hit."

    Volkswagen Sales Start To Feel The Impact Of Diesel Scandal     (Forbes)

    Went to a small, three couple dinner party last night and one of the spouses had not heard anything about DieselGate.

    You know what Bernie thinks about Dieselgate?

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "One month after the news of Volkswagen's diesel "cheat device" crisis broke, October sales data suggest that the company is fighting to grow its overall sales. Edmunds projects VW and Audi will combine to grow sales 5.1 percent from October 2014. However, a closer look at the individual brands suggests that Audi is responsible for all of that growth: Edmunds forecasts that Audi's October sales will increase 15.3 percent year over year, while Volkswagen's brand sales will remain flat from October 2014.

    "In this year of booming auto sales, no automaker should be relieved to see flat year-over-year performance, but this may be the best that Volkswagen can hope for this month," says Edmunds.com Senior Analyst Jessica Caldwell. "Until VW starts down a road to recovery by informing owners of a specific fix to their diesel vehicles, the company is likely to make far fewer sales than this surging market would otherwise deliver to them."

    Auto Sales to Enjoy Best October Since 2001, Forecasts Edmunds.com
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Now there is talk that this cheating may be on a much larger scale around the globe. That could put some hurt on them if it's true because the US isn't that big of a market for VW. Trouble in Europe and Asia could be a much bigger issue for them if true.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited October 2015
    From today's Automotive News (no surprise!)...

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20151026/COPY01/310269934/toyota-retakes-global-sales-lead-as-vw-deals-with-scandal
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I tried to cancel my preceding message by clicking on "Cancel" under edit, but the message didn't cancel.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    VW still has 3 years to fix their problems and take a lead over Toyota. GM is losing ground even faster than Toyota and VW. To me the bigger prize is net income. Looks like VW will be spending much of that for a while.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2015
    What do you want to fix? I can help you with that. "Cancel" just cancels the edit in progress from the original post. It won't cancel the original post.
    hpmctorque said:

    I tried to cancel my preceding message by clicking on "Cancel" under edit, but the message didn't cancel.

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    gagrice said:

    VW still has 3 years to fix their problems and take a lead over Toyota. GM is losing ground even faster than Toyota and VW. To me the bigger prize is net income. Looks like VW will be spending much of that for a while.

    Mary Barra has stated that she is focusing on improving profit margins. Volume for the sake of volume, and being the world's largest auto company is no longer a priority for GM.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Volkswagen’s reign as the world’s biggest automaker has been short-lived, and the company — in the throes of an emissions-cheating scandal — is bringing in a new head of corporate strategy.

    Toyota published figures on Monday that showed it sold more vehicles in the first nine months of 2015 than Volkswagen, retaking the No. 1 position. Only three months earlier, Volkswagen had surpassed Toyota for the first time and, however briefly, realized a long-held dream to become the world’s biggest automaker."

    Even Before Diesel Scandal Bites, VW Loses Its Sales Crown (NY Times)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    You know that some "analyst", somewhere, has been surprised by this news. :s
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I suspect there's a reason Toyota sold 32 million Corollas.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Some history on stretching the numbers, and the consequences, from today's New York Times...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/28/insider/the-times-greeted-hitlers-volkswagen-skeptically.html?_r=0
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    What do you want to fix? I can help you with that. "Cancel" just cancels the edit in progress from the original post. It won't cancel the original post.

    hpmctorque said:

    I tried to cancel my preceding message by clicking on "Cancel" under edit, but the message didn't cancel.


    Thanks for your offer to help, Shifty, but Stever posted the URL to the NY Times article in his message #45,905 that failed to appear on my post.

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    On the perils of being the biggest, from today's Automotive News...

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20151028/OEM/310289903/toyotas-take-on-vw-scandal-avoid-fixation-on-being-the-biggest
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "VW might actually be closer to daylight than it appears."

    History Points To A Light At The End Of The Tunnel For Volkswagen (Forbes)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    From NYT article:
    In November 2012, Hyundai and Kia admitted that they overstated the fuel economy of about one million 2011-2013 model year vehicles sold in the U.S. The companies ultimately paid over $300 million in settlements to the federal government.

    How was the Federal government harmed? How about the poor schmucks that bought the cars expecting better Mileage?

    Of course we all know the families of those killed by the GM faulty switches prior to the bankruptcy all got the royal shaft. That to me would be far more reason to never buy a GM than this fiasco with the VW emissions.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Volkswagen Reassures Tennessee Lawmakers on Chattanooga Plant (Bloomberg)
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Profits over volume...

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20151029/OEM/310299968/vw-to-shift-focus-to-profits-over-volume-mueller-says
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Well, ya... while the ideal would be profits AND volume, they DO need to make money if they want to stick around. Just sayin' ;)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    edited October 2015
    Yep, profit over sales, but don't forget greater sales volume can yield more profit dollars and cash flow, so profit shouldn't be the sole driver either. And there actually are occasional instances when sales, even at a small loss, can be important such as incremental pricing when you are in a cash jam.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "VW sales were flat during the best month of auto sales in the 21st century," Kelley Blue Book senior editor Karl Brauer told Business Insider.

    VW failed to grow its business at a time when its competitors, such as Ford, GM, and Toyota, experienced double-digit growth."

    Volkswagen is just barely staying afloat in the US auto market     (businessinsider.com)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited November 2015
    With 23% of their car sales being diesel, I would say they did far better than I would expect. Tiguan was up 167% over last Oct. Touareg up 45%. Those are money makers. And Audi registered their 57th month of gains in sales. My guess is VW screwed up trying to dumb down the Passat. The Japanese and Koreans provide plenty of cheap dumbed down appliance cars.

    PS
    Prius is down 11.2% YTD
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Volkswagen managers are worried about travelling to the United States, a German newspaper reported on Saturday, saying U.S. investigators have confiscated the passport of an employee who is there on a visit.

    Citing company sources, the Suddeutsche Zeitung said Volkswagen believes the investigators want to prevent the manager from evading questioning or criminal prosecution linked to the diesel emissions scandal.

    A spokesman for VW said: "Volkswagen employees are still travelling to the United States. Everything else is speculation."

    VW managers afraid to travel to the U.S. - paper (Reuters)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,136
    edited November 2015
    It'd be funny if some overpaid untouchable overzealous prosecutor types ended up making this a diplomatic confrontation. If only they were a military-industrial sector contractor, they could avoid trouble.

    I saw this on the news last night in Germany - it's a thing for speculation anyway. But guilty or not, the US doesn't usually hunt down people with money or corporate connections.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    This is turning into a really big deal. I think we're going to witness the utter annihilation of the TDI market in America and possibly the the rapid decline of the diesel car market in this country. 

    If this turns out to be true, then most definitely VW bet on the wrong horse, Toyota bet on the right one, and GM spread their bets on win, place and show.
  • carboy21carboy21 Member Posts: 760
    edited November 2015
    I would buy a TDI any day over the Nimby lover's hybrid cars. Don't want to drive sitting over a few pounds of highly combustible lithium batteries. I rather have a tank full of diesel under my butt.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well that's great, but it's probably going to have to be a used one from now on. To your benefit however you'll probably get a good price on it.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    If you are buying a full size sedan primarily based on fuel consumption, I'm thinking a hybrid Camry may be hard to beat when you balance overall ownership costs? I think Americans aren't as enamored with the smell and noise of a diesel as Europeans are. We were raised on quiet highway cruisers here. But the nice thing about the US is that the market is open to all players and alternatives.
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