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United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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Comments

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    berri said:

    Detroit BK will probably become a state model down the road. I don't see how some states like Illinois are going to solve it any other way.

    Since I live in Illinois it's quite alarming. It's a mess. No way will I live here when it's time to retire. 4 more years until our youngest is done with HS. At that point, we'll be looking to leave.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Since I live in Illinois it's quite alarming. It's a mess. No way will I live here when it's time to retire. 4 more years until our youngest is done with HS. At that point, we'll be looking to leave.

    I know what you mean. California has not met a tax it did not like. And they are not doing well at all. Our public employee unions are raping the tax payers. And all they can think about his how to take away prop 13 that protects the property owners.

    The trade unions are all but gone. The state being a protectorate for illegals encourages the hiring of any and all. I have watched highway jobs done by contractors with Baja license plates. Not a man on the job with reflective vest or hard hat. You know someone is getting Davis Bacon wages for those guys. I would bet it is not the workers.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2015
    Depends on who you ask I guess. "California’s economic engine will continue to hum in the coming years, allowing the state to ring up a series of multibillion-dollar budget surpluses and build rainy-day reserves, the Legislature’s nonpartisan fiscal analyst projected Wednesday." (SacBee)

    Further on in that article, the union members smell blood. Or maybe green would be a better word choice.

    I trust you reported those unsafe workers to OSHA. I'm sure the contractors who lost the bid did. B)

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    I don't know of any decent/developed place where a person can realistically live on $12 an hour anyway. Not unless you eat top ramen every day or live on a sofa. The $15 movement in some metro areas is only worth so much if an apartment is $1500/month and public transport is iffy.

    One would think union haters would want better wages and some amenities - as the lack of them was a historical force in creating unions to begin with.

    Regarding the other points, there's a reason both the US and Europe has tolerated some demographic policy, and it makes the old do-gooders feel warm and fuzzy too.
    gagrice said:


    I agree overall wages have lagged. I just think trying to make MW a living wage is a mistake that will cause inflation, and cost low level jobs. With the abundance of immigrants and refugees, a young citizen is not likely to find any job. I think young black men are unemployed at over double the rest of the population.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited November 2015
    That's no different than how the US military works, or the postal service. You don't need a union in order to develop a system of protection of incompetence and abuse of privilege. So it's a double standard in America---we beat up on those that don't fight back too much or who don't have massive political support or a monopoly.

    The minimum wage was designed to keep people off the welfare rolls. If it isn't doing that, then all that's happening is that private business is pushing off the cost of a decent living onto the taxpayer. If the taxpayer won't shoulder the burden, then society might become distressingly unstable.
    gagrice said:

    I've noticed this as well. To add context I think it revolves around the union's protection of losers. Like a lot of things, privileges tend to get abused.

    I spent 20 of my 37 years in the Teamsters as a shop steward. We saved several people's jobs that should have ended up on the street. That is what helped the demise of Unions as much as anything. Recent example was getting those potheads at Chrysler their jobs back. Plenty of people willing to work all day without drugs or alcohol. It is endangering the people they work around.

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    the GM BK was something of a special case, as the collapse of GM (and Chrysler) would have been an utter economic disaster, costing the government (and taxpayer) far more in social services than was paid out in relief. Plus all that, you have the resurgence of the auto industry and all the jobs it kept and added.

    I know it's hard for some to accept this scenario, because we did not get to see the alternative (demolition of the US auto industry) but we have to keep in mind that along with the auto industry going down the drain, all the supplier go down with it.

    We might look back to Britain when its automobile and motorcycle industries were allowed to collapse. Not only did that presage very hard economic times but also to this day that auto industry has not returned. It went elsewhere. Your Brtish cars are now mostly German, the motorcycles either gone or in India. (Triumph excepted, which now has 1,600 employees).

    You know, if Walmart goes down (and it might someday) well big deal..we have all the other big box stores to fill the vacuum. Or if Whole Foods rolls over and dies (and it might), well there are myriad substitutes.

    But when the Big 2 or Big 3 go down, that's it. Rebuilding Big Box infrastructure or grocery stores is a walk in the park compared to auto industry infrastructure. Just ask Tesla. Not a dime of profit to this day.

    Of course we could have bailed out the collaterally damaged suppliers and manufacturers for pennies on the dollar as compared to bailing out the culprits, GM and Chrysler.

    So I don't see "everyone" being taken down the drain with a GM and Chrysler collapse. I think it could have been stonewalled and isolated for very little from the bailout pie that was doled out.

    I see your social service costs and raise you exponentially with lost opportunity cost. Had we invested in "enter your favorite high performing stock here" instead of GM and Chrysler, the tax payer could have actually made a profit, rather than sucking up massive losses with GM and Chrysler (BILLIONS, not millions)!

    The economy going down a rat hole absent bailouts is the same argument some use when scaring people with "Paris could happen here ad campaigns."

    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    fintail said:

    I don't know of any decent/developed place where a person can realistically live on $12 an hour anyway. Not unless you eat top ramen every day or live on a sofa. The $15 movement in some metro areas is only worth so much if an apartment is $1500/month and public transport is iffy.

    One would think union haters would want better wages and some amenities - as the lack of them was a historical force in creating unions to begin with.

    Regarding the other points, there's a reason both the US and Europe has tolerated some demographic policy, and it makes the old do-gooders feel warm and fuzzy too.


    gagrice said:


    I agree overall wages have lagged. I just think trying to make MW a living wage is a mistake that will cause inflation, and cost low level jobs. With the abundance of immigrants and refugees, a young citizen is not likely to find any job. I think young black men are unemployed at over double the rest of the population.

    Aren't we conflating unions with minimum wages here?

    I thought unions stood for good working conditions, and to negotiate for better wages. The minimum wage is not really a union issue.

    I know I never expected to support a family of four when I worked flipping burgers at McDonald's while putting myself through college, and I would think that anybody who expects that is a bit delusional. MW is to prevent things like child labor at 25 cents an hour. MW is a floor for wage rates where people can get jobs in high school, in college. Be a waiter/waitress, sweep floors, deliver pizzas, and flip burgers. Those aren't careers, those are income supplements when starting out. Anybody who has only those skills after 5 or 10 or 20 years hasn't planned very well (as Bob and others have said).

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    andres3 said:



    Of course we could have bailed out the collaterally damaged suppliers and manufacturers for pennies on the dollar as compared to bailing out the culprits, GM and Chrysler.

    So I don't see "everyone" being taken down the drain with a GM and Chrysler collapse. I think it could have been stonewalled and isolated for very little from the bailout pie that was doled out.

    I see your social service costs and raise you exponentially with lost opportunity cost. Had we invested in "enter your favorite high performing stock here" instead of GM and Chrysler, the tax payer could have actually made a profit, rather than sucking up massive losses with GM and Chrysler (BILLIONS, not millions)!

    The economy going down a rat hole absent bailouts is the same argument some use when scaring people with "Paris could happen here ad campaigns."

    The thing is that the auto demand was what it was, and if GM were gone then it would have distributed to other suppliers. And I agree we could have bailed the more "innocent" companies like a Delphi, or other auto suppliers, instead. Who knows what other new capabilities this country missed because we DID bail those old dinosaurs out?

    Fearmongering is a favorite sport for the people with agendas. We talk capitalism but are afraid to let failed companies actually die. Just like freedom - now the government wants to stop all encryption so that they can spy on EVERYTHING, because it "prevents terrorism" and "protects the children" - even though of course the authorities knew about those characters in Paris before the problems happened, and there is no evidence any encryption was actually used. Just a smokescreen for more intervention.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think most Americans fully appreciate, on a conscious level I mean, the gravity of the economic crisis during that time. In fact, it's my opinion that the pessimism expressed by many people today, over the economy in 2015, even though the numbers strongly suggest an almost total recovery, speaks to the lingering trauma still in the minds of many people about the shock of it all back then. I think the government should have poured even more money into the breech than it did (not for GM, but for the entire economy I mean). Sometimes a half-hearted response just prolongs the agony.

    We dodged a bullet---no, an artillery shell.


    tlong said:

    andres3 said:



    Of course we could have bailed out the collaterally damaged suppliers and manufacturers for pennies on the dollar as compared to bailing out the culprits, GM and Chrysler.

    So I don't see "everyone" being taken down the drain with a GM and Chrysler collapse. I think it could have been stonewalled and isolated for very little from the bailout pie that was doled out.

    I see your social service costs and raise you exponentially with lost opportunity cost. Had we invested in "enter your favorite high performing stock here" instead of GM and Chrysler, the tax payer could have actually made a profit, rather than sucking up massive losses with GM and Chrysler (BILLIONS, not millions)!

    The economy going down a rat hole absent bailouts is the same argument some use when scaring people with "Paris could happen here ad campaigns."

    The thing is that the auto demand was what it was, and if GM were gone then it would have distributed to other suppliers. And I agree we could have bailed the more "innocent" companies like a Delphi, or other auto suppliers, instead. Who knows what other new capabilities this country missed because we DID bail those old dinosaurs out?

    Fearmongering is a favorite sport for the people with agendas. We talk capitalism but are afraid to let failed companies actually die. Just like freedom - now the government wants to stop all encryption so that they can spy on EVERYTHING, because it "prevents terrorism" and "protects the children" - even though of course the authorities knew about those characters in Paris before the problems happened, and there is no evidence any encryption was actually used. Just a smokescreen for more intervention.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    edited November 2015
    Not really. But forcing lower and lower wages and less and less benefits are part of what drove unions into existence. History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. We're definitely in a new gilded age. How did the last one end?

    There was a time when a lucky generation could use a MW job to pay for school. Not today
    tlong said:


    Aren't we conflating unions with minimum wages here?

    I thought unions stood for good working conditions, and to negotiate for better wages. The minimum wage is not really a union issue.

    I know I never expected to support a family of four when I worked flipping burgers at McDonald's while putting myself through college, and I would think that anybody who expects that is a bit delusional. MW is to prevent things like child labor at 25 cents an hour. MW is a floor for wage rates where people can get jobs in high school, in college. Be a waiter/waitress, sweep floors, deliver pizzas, and flip burgers. Those aren't careers, those are income supplements when starting out. Anybody who has only those skills after 5 or 10 or 20 years hasn't planned very well (as Bob and others have said).

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Have we dodged a bullet for sure? I'm not sure this is a long term recuperation. Most young people aren't making the same money as their predecessors; so who is going to buy $400K homes down the road, expensive cars, or even afford to raise multiple children? No kids coming up to replace the elderly - well, look at Japan now and China in another decade or so. But immigration has become a swear word. This is not a growth formula for America in the future.

    The government efforts for recovery were totally half [non-permissible content removed] because of all the bickering and idealism in Washington. Obama blew a bunch on "green" instead of basic, sound infrastructure update and repair. The Republicans in Congress just wanted to use money to give the rich tax cuts that would "trickle down" - Right! So the effort turned to the Federal Reserve which initially steered us out of the worst of it, but for how long? Eventually the Greenspan and Volcker efforts of the past blew up and I fear these will too. You know it's much easier to buy stocks smart than sell them smart, and its the getting out part that tends to become bad with Fed actions as well. Both political parties do have one thing in common, lots of money and benefits for special interests that fund election campaigns. Agriculture, Big Pharma, lack of legal system or meaningful Wall Street reform and on and on...and the working class continues to pay for all of that despite its worsening economic situation.

    Want the final area of concern - who do you vote for the next president? They all appear to be idiots and BS'ers.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    Depends on who you ask I guess. "California’s economic engine will continue to hum in the coming years, allowing the state to ring up a series of multibillion-dollar budget surpluses and build rainy-day reserves, the Legislature’s nonpartisan fiscal analyst projected Wednesday." (SacBee)

    Further on in that article, the union members smell blood. Or maybe green would be a better word choice.

    I trust you reported those unsafe workers to OSHA. I'm sure the contractors who lost the bid did. B)

    There is a HUGE problem with the SacBee piece. The state is responsible for the pension plans. First Brown cut our school district by just over $1 million. Which meant cutting teacher salaries and benefits. CalPers is sitting at 66% funding. That is several hundred BILLION underfunded. So the liars in Sacramento can claim we have a tiny surplus, but it just ain't so.

    This kind of manipulation may be one reason the CalPERS state worker funds on average have only 66 percent of the projected assets needed to reach full funding in the next 30 years.

    That’s slightly lower than the troubled California State Teachers Retirement System, which was 67 percent funded in a new actuarial report this month. CalSTRS lacks the power to set employer rates, requiring hard-to-get legislation instead.

    CalSTRS needs a rate increase of about $4 billion a year to project full funding in 30 years. Without a rate increase of some kind, actuaries expect CalSTRS to run out of money in about 30 years, even if investment earnings hit the target of 7.5 percent a year.

    http://www.publicceo.com/2014/04/calpers-hikes-rate-459-million-funding-still-low/

    Last week’s federal court ruling in the municipal bankruptcy case of Stockton, CA highlighted the enormous challenge faced by local governments with underfunded public pensions.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Tax-VOX/2014/1007/How-can-states-fix-1-trillion-in-underfunded-pensions

    For those that think all is rosy in CA. you have been mislead.

    http://calpensions.com/2014/09/02/small-city-puts-spotlight-on-big-calpers-exit-cost/
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    berri said:



    Want the final area of concern - who do you vote for the next president? They all appear to be idiots and BS'ers.

    I can agree with that.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2015
    How about a 2015 link @gagrice? I'll even throw you a SacBee bone. B)

    Dan Walters: Is California’s economy booming? Not really

    Down at the Union in your neck of the, er, desert, "Economically speaking, California either is doing fantastically well or is mired in despair, with intractable levels of unemployment and poverty. It all depends on which recent news stories one chooses to believe, although a case can be made that both situations are true at the same time. Some are doing well and others not-so well." (link)

    Back, ahem, to the UAW, there seems to be a good bit of shock (disappointment?) that the Big 3 got through the negotiations with the union without all that much drama.

    Many are saying that everyone is disappointed in the contracts and that's a good sign.

    That leaves us with VW down in Chattanooga to yak about for the next four years (it's four years for the next UAW contracts - I'm not talking POTUS politics. :) )
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    stever said:



    Many are saying that everyone is disappointed in the contracts and that's a good sign.

    That is probably a good sign for both sides
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    And it's been that way as long as I've been alive, if not longer. It'll be interesting to see how the UAW or any unions play in the next election, when there already looks to be no good choices.
    tlong said:

    berri said:



    Want the final area of concern - who do you vote for the next president? They all appear to be idiots and BS'ers.

    I can agree with that.

  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited November 2015
    Yeah, not that previous elections were any better, but the next one looks especially bad.

    I'd guess the status quo will prevail and the unions will back the dems.

    Though I will say, around here (midwest anyway), I personally know a lot of conservative union members. They are in the trades, like to hunt, very pro gun and anti obama (yeah, pretty much your sterotypical older white male). I don't know how that extrapolates to the rest of the country or the next election.


  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481

    I think the situation in California is, in fact, a matter of 'some doing well, some doing badly". The point of the SacBee article is, I think, that the California economy is massive and always has the potential to rev up. California, no matter what its status, has a future. Some states definitely do not. Hi-Tech, entertainment, agriculture and tourism will drive California long into the foreseeable future. The auto industry? Not so much. I bet even Tesla folds up the car department and goes into the battery business.

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Mr_Shiftright said:


    I bet even Tesla folds up the car department and goes into the battery business.

    I hope not. It's nice to see some real innovation from the US auto industry, even though Tesla is not traditional auto industry. F and GM need some upstart like Tesla to wake them from their sorry stupor.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2015
    AK is in bust with the oil glut. The UP has been bust since they wiped out the copper and timber around WWII. Lower MI could be okay but the corruption is pretty bad. WI always seemed to have their act together than MI, better infrastructure. Boise was diverse with tech and ag and putters along okay. NM is ag and oil and corrupt. TN throttles along okay, having transitioned from textiles to other small manufacturing, transport and football. MS seems to be doing okay when I visit the old stomping grounds, but I don't hit the Delta. Rural VA where my sister lives (two hours from the Beltway) seems to be picking up after a twenty year coast.

    Don't know if Right to Work will make much difference. If you live in a resource extraction state, you already know about boom and bust. If your area does a bit of everything, and you have sunshine, you're probably okay. Seattle does fine without much of the latter. :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Tesla would be cooler without the undeserved consumer tax breaks and creative accounting (and maybe some better styling, the egg thing will get tired).

    The upcoming election will be at least as unpalatable as 2000, if not worse. UAW will likely go Dem, Dem will likely win IMO judging at this point in the game.



  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Stever says: Back, ahem, to the UAW, there seems to be a good bit of shock (disappointment?) that the Big 3 got through the negotiations with the union without all that much drama.

    I think the UAW leaders in the auto industry were wise to push through their contracts. The UAW leaders at Kohler not so smart. They picked the worst time of year to strike. Slow season for Kohler products, vacations and holidays messed up. And the biggest issue is cold weather picketing. We adjusted our contracts to end in May. Then if we should be so unfortunate as to strike we would not be out in the cold. Very stupid move by the employees at Kohler. My bet Kohler will bust the Union. Time will tell.

    KOHLER, WI (WHBL) - It is now day nine of the United Auto Workers Local 833 Strike against the Kohler Company, as a waiting game continues for about 21-hundreds workers regarding a new contract between the two. As has been the case since November 15th, no public word on any progress on a deal that would end the strike.

    Those on strike continue to put time on the picket line outside the company’s two plants in Sheboygan County, as they fight for a fair contract with Kohler.

    WHBL News has asked several striking workers what it is like to be off the job for a week, and what impact this experience has had on them.

    Debra, who was with Kohler when the last strike took place in 1983, says the situation has a different feel compared to over 30 years ago. "Everybody’s on edge, but we’re still going to continue fighting. We’re going to fight until we can’t no more."

    http://whbl.com/news/articles/2015/nov/24/strikers-react-as-kohler-strike-enters-week-two/
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Porcelain is heavy to ship but I bet Kohler has been hammered by all the Chinese brass imports. Of course, a lot of that brass is likely sent to Kohler.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    fintail said:

    Tesla would be cooler without the undeserved consumer tax breaks and creative accounting (and maybe some better styling, the egg thing will get tired).

    The upcoming election will be at least as unpalatable as 2000, if not worse. UAW will likely go Dem, Dem will likely win IMO judging at this point in the game.



    Given what we've put into GM and F, I don't really see any of the Tesla tax breaks as undeserved. At least we are pushing the technology with Tesla.

    I actually see Bernie as the most ethical and having the most integrity of the candidates, even though I don't agree with all of his politics. On the R side, Romney from the last election looks better to me than pretty much any of the current candidates.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    tlong said:

    fintail said:

    Tesla would be cooler without the undeserved consumer tax breaks and creative accounting (and maybe some better styling, the egg thing will get tired).

    The upcoming election will be at least as unpalatable as 2000, if not worse. UAW will likely go Dem, Dem will likely win IMO judging at this point in the game.



    Given what we've put into GM and F, I don't really see any of the Tesla tax breaks as undeserved. At least we are pushing the technology with Tesla. I haven't heard about the UAW trying to unionize Tesla yet, ha ha.

    I actually see Bernie as the most ethical and having the most integrity of the candidates, even though I don't agree with all of his politics. On the R side, Romney from the last election looks better to me than pretty much any of the current candidates.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    gagrice said:

    Stever says: Back, ahem, to the UAW

    Why do I think that this thread isn't going to end well? B)

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm picturing a smoldering log cabin, burned to the ground, with John Wayne looking down on it glumly as his 1st sargeant says: "It looks like the Comanches, sir".
    stever said:

    gagrice said:

    Stever says: Back, ahem, to the UAW

    Why do I think that this thread isn't going to end well? B)

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    Well, I said consumer tax breaks. I find it hard to justify incentives for those buying 100K vehicles. If Tesla can become a legitimately viable concern (I wouldn't wager on it), it will be interesting to see if they are wise enough to keep workers happy enough to not organize.

    tlong said:



    Given what we've put into GM and F, I don't really see any of the Tesla tax breaks as undeserved. At least we are pushing the technology with Tesla.

    I actually see Bernie as the most ethical and having the most integrity of the candidates, even though I don't agree with all of his politics. On the R side, Romney from the last election looks better to me than pretty much any of the current candidates.

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    fintail said:

    Well, I said consumer tax breaks. I find it hard to justify incentives for those buying 100K vehicles. If Tesla can become a legitimately viable concern (I wouldn't wager on it), it will be interesting to see if they are wise enough to keep workers happy enough to not organize.

    Well the UAW is keeping the F and GM workers just barely happy enough not to strike. But they don't seem to be offering enough value for any of the southern plants to organize. And of course we could argue that the UAW has succeeded in driving auto jobs to the south and also out of the country.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,139
    No doubt one can argue that. Also trade policies and the ever increasing demand for greater ROI by the cereal box MBA crowd employed to please the small amount of citizens who own almost all of the shares has moved jobs to low cost low amenity markets, too.

    I suspect people who have been historically against organization will keep up that precedent unless the situation becomes dire.
    tlong said:



    Well the UAW is keeping the F and GM workers just barely happy enough not to strike. But they don't seem to be offering enough value for any of the southern plants to organize. And of course we could argue that the UAW has succeeded in driving auto jobs to the south and also out of the country.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:

    gagrice said:

    Stever says: Back, ahem, to the UAW

    Why do I think that this thread isn't going to end well? B)

    Just the slump after the D3 all settled their contracts. As for the Kohler strike, I prefer Moen Made in USA products. Not sure if they are Union or not.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    gagrice said:

    I think the UAW leaders in the auto industry were wise to push through their contracts. The UAW leaders at Kohler not so smart. They picked the worst time of year to strike. Slow season for Kohler products, vacations and holidays messed up. And the biggest issue is cold weather picketing. We adjusted our contracts to end in May. Then if we should be so unfortunate as to strike we would not be out in the cold. Very stupid move by the employees at Kohler. My bet Kohler will bust the Union. Time will tell.

    stever said:

    Porcelain is heavy to ship but I bet Kohler has been hammered by all the Chinese brass imports. Of course, a lot of that brass is likely sent to Kohler.

    Since I am in the industry:

    There is no slow time for Kohler or in plumbing fixture industry. The building industry in most parts of the country is going strong and building goes on year round. In snowy and cold climates the builders are smart enough to have the shells up and finish work going on during the winter and that's where Kohler products are used - inside the shell.

    Porcelain may be heavy to ship but the vast majority of the vitreous china products come from Mexico, China, India, et al. Very few companies still make toilets and sink in America and those that do usually sell at a higher price point than the Home Depot specials. As for the brass, Kohler gets it's products from their factories in China and India. Their better brass products are often manufactured by other companies in the industry and those are sourced from Italy, Portugal, Spain, and Germany.

    Kohler as a whole is well diversified company with multiple plumbing brands, a tile company, two furniture companies, generators and engines divisions, and the resort business. AFAIK, the only business affected by the strike in Wisconsin is the cast iron items as it is the only place they make those items.

    In any case, will Kohler bust the union? I doubt it. Kohler, WI is all about Kohler Co.. They don't want to do anything that could sully their reputation in the community.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2015
    Nice post - that's it in toto. :D

    (sorry for the potty humor).
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    stever said:

    Nice post - that's it in toto. :D

    (sorry for the potty humor).

    :)

    Toto toilets are the best. I have one in my master bath and it works flawlessly. I recommend the brand to anyone that asks.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    terrylove.com is my goto site when I, er, have to go.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited November 2015
    Robr2: There is no slow time for Kohler or in plumbing fixture industry.

    You are right there. It is still a lousy time of year to be walking picket line. The Teamsters pushed all its members in AK to walk picket even when it was not our strike. I remember some mighty cold days in Anchorage.

    Robr2: Toto toilets are the best. I have one in my master bath and it works flawlessly. I recommend the brand to anyone that asks.

    Our home came with Toto toilets in all three Bathrooms. They are great flushers. I had no idea the difference between the brands until I researched for the houses my son remodeled in Indiana. We used Toto there from my own experience with these. I see Toto has 6 of the top ten toilets. Kohler has one.

    comparaboo.com/toilets?origin=google&bs=774416589&targeting=14902601702&google_params[loc]=9031290&google_params[loc]=&google_params[matchtype]=b&google_params[network]=g&google_params[device]=c&google_params[creative]=53741288822&google_params[keyword]=%2Btoilet%20%2Breview&google_params[placement]=&google_params[adposition]=1t2&ad_id=6840645&gclid=Cj0KEQiA1dWyBRDqiJye6LjkhfIBEiQAw06ITkfmakTJDT3zNXfWm6L_b4si53dMsZ-_zYQrcmkOZ68aAjoV8P8HAQ
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    All of our toilets are Toto. I didn't know they were anything special until my BIL pointed them out shortly after we moved in. I will say they are great at flushing.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Well I see the Chattanooga VW plant skilled trades are apparently now UAW members. Line workers will likely follow. The question is how many will actually join though, since I believe TN is right to work.

    I'm starting to see a parallel with the failed Westmoreland VW plant. UAW starts pushing up costs while there are product line problems. Today it's emissions cheating, back then it was the ill fated Rabbit. I guess time will tell if the plant survives down the road.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    VW has realy gone into the dumper over the last 5 years or so. Uninspiring models, deliberate emissions cheating, and now unionized in the US. I'm hoping for continued sales drops.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The United Auto Workers is bringing charges against Volkswagen for refusing to bargain with a group of skilled workers who won a union vote at the German automaker’s lone U.S. plant in Tennessee earlier this month.

    The federal labor panel last week certified the maintenance workers’ 108-44 vote in favor of being represented by the UAW. It was the first time the union had won a vote among workers at a foreign-owned auto plant in the South."

    UAW Brings Charges Against Volkswagen for Refusal to Bargain (Yahoo)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Simple solution, just offer less pay to those workers. Force the UAW to strike, shut down the plant and move that meager production to Mexico. They only sold 2759 Passats in November. Not enough to keep the plant open.
    The Mexican factory could build that many Passats by noon on Monday.

    UAW has a history of kicking a company when they are down. GM never recovered from the 1998 strike.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    UAW wasn't a big help at their old Westmoreland, PA plant either.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    If the plant goes then we get rid of VW mfg in the US as well as the union workers!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    UAW settles contract with Kohlers. Still have the 2 tier system. I don't think the UAW will get away from that. Gives the manufacturer more flexibility.

    The two-tiered pay scale was a sticking point in negotiations. The union said it unfairly limited new employees to roughly $13 an hour. CEO Kohler warned that without the two-tiered system, local manufacturing jobs would likely disappear.

    http://www.wisn.com/news/kohler-union-reach-tentative-deal-to-end-monthlong-strike/36997352
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Any word on the Appeal VW has filed against the UAW at the TN factory.

    The UAW has filed an unfair labor charge against VW, claiming the automaker refuses to enter into collective bargaining with the unit.

    VW is asking the NLRB to hear the appeal and then overturn the regional director's decision. The company has said that all the production workers at the plant should be allowed to vote. The UAW lost a February 2014 election of the production employees by a margin of 712 to 626.

    http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/business/aroundregion/story/2016/jan/09/business-groups-support-vw-appeal-uaw-vote-ch/343777/
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Probably the least of VW's concerns right now
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Glad to see the US main guy is out. Hope the door doesn't hit him in the posterior on the way out.
    AFAIC VW already "Americanized" its fairly competitive and Germanic sedans of the mid-2000s with newer, larger, bloated and blandmobiles today (Passat, Jetta). Honestly I don't see much appeal with those vehicles any more. Why would you buy a bland VW sedan with low reliability and super high service prices when those sedans no longer have any other apparent advantages to Hondas or Mazdas with much higher reliability and lower repair costs?

    The sort of perverse humor in all of this is that the UAW will probably manage to organize the US VW plants just as VW US mfg pulls out like they did in Westmorland PA a few decades ago.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    AFAIC VW already "Americanized" its fairly competitive and Germanic sedans of the mid-2000s with newer, larger, bloated and blandmobiles today (Passat, Jetta). Honestly I don't see much appeal with those vehicles any more.

    As for me, VW without a diesel engine is not even on my radar. As much as I like my Touareg, I would not consider it with a gas engine. Even if it was half the price. Same for BMW and MB. At my current yearly mileage on the T-reg it will be 14 years old when it hits 100,000 miles. We have a 27 year old LS400 that just hit 108k miles. Still take it to church every Sunday. Buying another car would be just for fun.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    tlong said:

    Glad to see the US main guy is out. Hope the door doesn't hit him in the posterior on the way out.
    AFAIC VW already "Americanized" its fairly competitive and Germanic sedans of the mid-2000s with newer, larger, bloated and blandmobiles today (Passat, Jetta). Honestly I don't see much appeal with those vehicles any more. Why would you buy a bland VW sedan with low reliability and super high service prices when those sedans no longer have any other apparent advantages to Hondas or Mazdas with much higher reliability and lower repair costs?

    The sort of perverse humor in all of this is that the UAW will probably manage to organize the US VW plants just as VW US mfg pulls out like they did in Westmorland PA a few decades ago.

    To be fair, VW seems to rate right in the middle, or average when it comes to reliability and durability, at least for the last few years. Honda & Mazda really don't do much better lately in those categories; see latest CR?

    I haven't driven a Passat or Jetta lately, but they still make a Jetta GLI which would probably be faster than most anything in its price class on a curvy road.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    It just seems to me that older Passat's had a somewhat unique and classy look to them, while these new models are just blah and generic.
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