Taurus/Sable Maintenance & Repair

oxx93 · April 2004

Thanks for the advice. When you say touch your wheels, where do you mean?

badgerfan · April 2004

Touching wheels, rotors, and calipers after driving would seem pretty unscientific. If you come to any kind of stop using your brakes you will generate heat, so for sure your rotors will get warm. That is how brakes work. The friction that stops your car also generates heat.

Maybe if you took the car out for a high speed run and then were able to coast down to a stop without using your brakes, and then the disks were hot you could then assume you were getting excess drag of the pads on the rotors. Otherwise, just having hot rotors or calipers could be misleading.

Your tires will also be warm after a high speed run as tires generate heat when flexing. Nothing to be concerned about, however.

snowman · April 2004

I am sure you are smart guy to read and interpret my advise correctly and not to touch your pads or calipers.
If you have alloys, just feel any spoke, your wheels should be warm/hot enough for you to be able to touch no matter how fast or how long you have driven (don't intentionally apply brakes and make your wheels extremely hot) just do your regular driving. If system drags, the wheel will be extremely hot even under normal driving.

But I think your brakes are due. 29K replacement is normal for city driving, that's what I believe. One last thing, if dealer comes up with a brake job offer, don't take it. Stock rotors and pads are not good and way over priced...

hoon · April 2004

Hello,

There was a similar problem and did not see response to it.

My Taraus (96) will loss power steering, and radio (no sound, but the lights are still on). When at drive gear, radio comes back. It will goes off after 20 minunes' drive.

Any clues?

Thanks a lot

larryk · April 2004

Hi All,

Hey has anyone ever changed a windshield washer motor on a Taurus? I've got a '95, and the washer doesn't work anymore. I can hear the switch click when I push it, but no juice comes out!! Just wondering where the motor is, and if it is something a "shade tree mechanic" can replace. Thanks,

larryk · April 2004

Hi All, well I guess it's my turn to have a transmission problem.

I tow a small trailer behind my '95 Taurus, 3.0 with automatic. It has begun slipping, that is when I'm moving down the road, if I step on the gas, the tach shows more revs, but the trans. just slips.

Any advise? How big of a tragedy is this likely to be? Where is best to take it for repair; Ford or a transmission place?

Thanks,

winston · April 2004

Can someone tell me whether a wire harness from a 2000 or 2001 Ford Taurus is compatible with and can be used on a 2002 Ford Taurus? Is is the same part? If the wire harness is bad, what effect will this have on the operation of the car? Also, what is the typical charge for replacing the wire harness?

Can someone tell me what a throttle cable is? What symptoms will be experienced if throttle cable is bad? What can cause a throttle cable to go bad? Also, what is the typical charge for replacing the throttle cable?

snowman · April 2004

Which wire harness you'r talking about, as far as I know there are more than one wire harness, like headlights, lights, radio etc. Can you be more specific...
Bad TB cable causes idling and drivability problems, again, you need to be more specific...

felixc1976 · April 2004

Well, I managed to keep my 97 Taurus out of repair shops for almost entire 2003, until there was "no heat" in Dec. Took it to my dealer - diagnosed a closed heater core valve, which required entire heater core to be replaced(not sure if it was really necessary?). They quoted $900 and I agreed, since my extended warranty covered it (2nd time the $700 extended warranty bought in 98 actually covered something, all other repairs were minor). My cost-$100(deductible+coolant+thermostat which I decided to replace too). Anybody had their heater core valves broken?
As spring came around the corner, I was "pleased" to learn that A/C is blowing hot air only. Took it to a really good Goodyear shop nearby. Turns out freon leaked out. They put a dye in the system, but couldn't find a leak. Asked me to come back in Sept to see how it's doing. Cost me another $200. While they were fixing A/C, they found worn spark plugs & wires, replaced rusted oil pan, flushed out transmission fluid (it was shifting rough sometimes) = $600.
So, paying almost $1k in repairs in 5 months on a car with 83k mi didn't please me at all, but I'm willing to put $1k a year in it, since it's been paid off for a year now and drives really well. In general it's been relatively trouble free, except some small things which happen once-twice a year (worn out ball joints, resurfaced rotors, new brakes, and new sub-frame bushings -3 times).
I hope to drive it until 2008 or 150k mi, as long as it costs me $1k-$1.5k a year to fix it. It's still much cheaper than buying a new car.
I think Ford builds a really good Taurus! Yes, it has more problems per vehicle than Toyota/Honda, but the upfront cost is typically $3-5k less than Japanese, and the spare parts are cheaper.

badgerfan · April 2004

I doubt if you really had worn plugs and wires. Platinum plugs go to 100k miles. My take on tuneups these days is if it starts good, runs good, gets mileage as normal, don't touch it for a "tuneup" until maybe 100k. There just isn't much to tune anymore.

Can't imagine you would have an oil pan so rusted it is near rusting out, but I suppose it is possible.

I can sympathize on the AC however. In our last three vehicles, two Caravans and my 1990 Taurus, AC was the least reliable and most expensive repair issue. Otherwise they were pretty trouble free. I just wish I could have an AC problem that only costs $200. Our 1996 Caravan has now had just about every AC component replaced, half of it two years ago, and the other half was fixed just yesterday. I am hoping my 2000 Taurus has a better AC system. So far so good, but time will tell.

alcan · April 2004

Have the shop take a hard look at all the hose connection points. Ford AC connector O-rings are a common source of refrigerant leaks. A good shop should have an electronic refrigerant leak detector, which will pick out leaks as low as 1 gram/year. BTW, DuPont "Freon" is R-12 refrigerant, phased out of most cars by 1994. All newer cars use R134-A refrigerant.

snowman · April 2004

If I am not mistaken, you have a Taurus. I've got a question that I am hoping you can, at least, quide me.
When the car starts, idle jumps to 2K rpm, slowly goes down to 1K rpm and it stays there. While in park, when you give some gas, idle goes up to like 1500 rpm and HANGS there for 5 seconds and then starts going down.

There is no drivability issue, car idles very smooth in drive and traffic, it has nice pick up power, pedal is responsive.

I already changed IAC. TB and upper intake manifold is very clean. A month ago, I cleaned TB, MAF and IAC. Also attempted to pull EGR out, I was able to get two bolts out but the bottom nut didn't come out so I put everything back. Since then I had this issue. Also I used the same TB gasket I pulled. The entire problem started after this.

I checked out visible vacum lines, seem like fine and there is no hissing sound from anywhere in engine.

Appears to be car is getting much more air in park for some reason, it idles like Mustang in park, in drive it idles like MB...

Any idea

automan227 · April 2004

My '01 SEL does this as well with my Duratec. I believe it has something to do with the car warming itself up initially. Not sure about the 1500RPM thing, but i'll check it next time im in the car.

AS

snowman · April 2004

I got other people from different Taurus forums that
they have the exact same problems with Duratec or Vulcan.

RPM hangs regardles of engine temperature. Drive the car an hour, put it into park and give some gas, RPM still hangs. So, it is not related whether engine is cold or not...

nesafety · May 2004

Ok, I'm an idiot. I've done a million brake jobs on my vehicles. Now I have to replace a frozen caliper, damaged rotor and pads. Everythings going good until I can't figure out the pad placement in the caliper. there's no spring clips like I'm used to, just springs...Can anyone give me some insight? I lay the pads in but they don't seem to move back and forth, etc.
Thanks
Tom

snowman · May 2004

I have G4 Taurus, I've not seen G3 brakes but think they are the same...
Pads are suppose to be resting on Caliper Anchor. There is no spring or nothing. Place the pads on Anchor and close down the caliper. The caliper will hold the pads. Pads are suppose to be slightly loose on Anchor this is important for them to travel back and forth with piston movement.
Hovever, You need to check Haynes or Chilton manula to be sure. Like I said I never worked on G3. I see where you are coming, my Dodge has those clips...

charliebrown62 · May 2004

I have a 2001 Taurus with the 12 valve engine, the idle speed bounces anywhere from 550-850 RPM's, and it wants to stall but hasn't yet. I've taken it to the dealership at least 3 times and they can't find anything wrong with it after checking it on their diagnostic equipment.

It also pings intermittently, but loudly when the engine is at a normal operating temperature, under light or heavy acceleration, especially on hills. The problem with both of these issues is that the car doesn't exhibit these issues when I take it to the dealership. Luckily, the car is under warranty (Factory warranty ends in about 1500 miles, or July of this year).

Does anyone have any clue(s) to why my car is acting this way? Is anyone else having any problems similar to mine?

snowman · May 2004

Oh! I think I already read all internet discussions and articles about this subject. Vulcan (12V OHV Ford Engine-what you have) engines are infamous for pinging. Delaer may reprogram your PCM but it didn't help mine. I can give you one friendly advise, if your dealer wants to charge you tunup or something, don't do it.
Go ahead and run a search on Google, I tell you what to do, you either use 180 degree thermostat or upgrade to 93 octane gas. My Vulcan is so quite since I started to use 93 octane, I also ordered my 180 degree t-stat but haven't found a chance to install it.

For your rough idle, focus on Idle Air Control Valve. Unmeasured air is somehow entering your upper Intake Manifold...

toby · May 2004

To carlady 9. Our daughter returned from a trip last night which invovled driving at high speeds on a freeway. This morning we saw that the front While we are grateful that this happened in the driveway, we are furious that it happened at all. We have 83,000 miles on the car. We are waiting for a return call from the Ford garage and other independent garages regarding time it will take to fix this and cost. There is definitely something wrong with this coil!!!!

wijoco · May 2004

Hmmm...stumbling idle and pinging? I bet it stumbles worse when cold? Sure as heck sounds like an intake gasket leak to me! At the very least a vacuum leak somewhere, the dealer needs to make a better effort at finding the problem. But make sure you help him out: write down a list of conditions (engine temp, amount of driving time, outdoor temp, etc) that create the problem. You may also need to leave the car for a few days to allow him time to try different situations to duplicate the problem. If he can get the car at the point the leak occurs, then it saves him diagnostic time and you money.
And DO NOT change thermostats.

wijoco · May 2004

You don't put a different temperature thermostat in any fuel-injected computer controlled vehicle. Never, ever.
That won't solve your pinging problem. It will create a bunch more problems, though. You likely have a lean condition created by a failure in some type of fuel metering device or a vacuum leak somewhere. I'm betting vacuum leak, based on your high idle and pinging problem.

snowman · May 2004

I solved the high idle problem, throttle body gasket was broken and upper intake sucking unmetered air into system, after $6, it is idling like silk.
I disagree with your comments about lower temp
t-stats. The symptoms you talk occurs only with 160 degree and below t-stats, cause they create stuck open thermostat effect which triggers CEL and all other things. 180s are widely used by many Taurus and other make owners as part of performance modification b/c it slightly increases HP by keeping engine temperature lower.
Thisnk about it this way, within 10 minutes coolant circulates the engine block 7 times under 195 degree t-stat. With 180 degree t-stat, the number of circulation becomes 10 times.

wijoco · May 2004

"180s are widely used by many Taurus and other make owners as part of performance modification b/c it slightly increases HP by keeping engine temperature lower."

A lot of people do a lot of dumb things. Buy a manual on fuel injection, read it, pay special attention to the parts on coolant temp sensors and engine controls. Considering the huge federal penalties for CAFE violations, if the 180 degree thermostat is an improvement and makes an engine more efficient, why do the factories install 195 degree thermostats?

"Thisnk about it this way, within 10 minutes coolant circulates the engine block 7 times under 195 degree t-stat. With 180 degree t-stat, the number of circulation becomes 10 times."

Well, yes, more circulation cools the engine more (to a point). That doesn't prove how an engine programmed to run at around 192 will be more efficient at 180.
I would debate this more, but I have to buy 1,000 shares in Texaco. Let me know when you install that thermostat so I'll know when to sell.

snowman · May 2004

Thanks for your concerns; I am all aware of that cooling and emission concepts and theory. As an individual, I am doing my part to keep the environment clean more than many people. CAFE vialotions? Let the others who drive gas guzzler SUVs to go to McDonalds, worry about that.
In this case, I can't talk for all the manufacturers but I can talk for Ford regarding why they don't use 180 degree t-stat.
Even tough 12 Valve Ford Engine (OHV-aka Vulcan) is old technology; Ford puts it into many applications like Taurus, Mazda Trucks, and Ranger 3.0 trucks. Many of these vehicles suffer for engine ping. This is well established fact. Ford was forced to catch up with MPG and emission requirements that were enforced on Car manufacturers by Federal Government. Many manufacturers responded this by designing newer and more efficient engines. Ford, instead, continued to use Vulcan engine by performing some modifications. Using higher temperature t-stat (192-195) and modifying PCM parameters were several of them to create higher operating temperature to lower the emission and gas consumption. However, the Vulcan was not designed for this.

Did you know that factory default PCM octane value is 93 and Ford overwrites this by 87 by flashing PCM to force the car recognize 87 octane. During the production, they forgot to do that for some amount of Tauruses and then later issued TSB to correct the value.Searc for it, you will see what I am talking. But engine was not happy about this 87 octane mods. This was another act of getting by from strict MPG and emission regulations for manufacturers.
This is why almost every Vulcan engine pings. But, lets clear something, this is only related to pinging caused by higher combustion chamber temperature. There are other reasons for pinging like ignition related causes, high carbon in TB and upper-lower intakes etc.
So, Ford resolved the federal requirement on paper and in theory but created potential engine related problems which they discovered by consumers and solely owned by consumers. In other words. Ford unloaded the responsibility of their own acts to consumers.

This is why my case is an exception. For a car which runs perfect, lowering t-stat to gain HP, of course, will create a problem. So your argument, I don't think, applies to my case.

PS: If I were you, I wouldn't take Corporate America's actions/moves (scientific /ethical/ financial / environmental etc.) granted. To me they are the biggest liars in every aspect. They lie to Government, they lie to consumers, they abuse people all over the world, they abuse environment etc. Therefore, coming with a statement like "... if the 180 degree thermostat is an improvement and makes an engine more efficient, why do the factories install 195 degree thermostats?" will not carry merit. Don't look logical or scientific fact behind of how Corporate America does manufacturing...

dako_tian · May 2004

You are undoubtedly correct about corporate America. Unfortunately, the US (and any other) government is even worse about lying and certainly worse about manufacturing anything and is most horribly inefficient. Foreign manufacturers, with few if any exceptions, are far worse. They tend to work under less stringent government restrictions (our government does provide some benefits!), they use and abuse their workers, their environment, deliver the lowest acceptable quality their customers will tolerate, as well as cheating their distributors and suppliers whenever and however possible.

Ah yes, "What about the Japanese?" you ask. They do stick together as a nation and as a people. However, try being different in any way in their culture. They have a saying, "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down." Heaven help you if you are not Japan Japanese or if you don't adhere to the societal norm.

Yes, you are probably correct. But I cannot think of anywhere or any better system at the moment. Unfortunately, we achieve this admirable level by sucking up a far greater percentage of the world's resources than is seemly (we represent only about 5% of the world's population, afterall).

We also share one trait with the Japanese: unless an American is involved, we could care less about you or your troubles. Try watching BBC news. You will find out to your probable amazement that their are a whole host of civil wars going on right now (one since 1984!). In fact, their is a whole other world of good and bad news happening that would come as news indeed to even the best educated set of us Americans. We truly are the current most selfish and arrogant nation on Earth. I am very sorry to say.

Is there anyone better out there. Probably not. But, being able to claim "best hog in the pig sty" isn't saying much. :-(

Mr_Shiftright · May 2004

Gentlemen, let's stick to cars if we can. There are plenty of websites devoted to politics.

thank you!

Host

shamrock22 · May 2004

My Taurus has been running very cold for several weeks. Gage reads low and there's little or no heat on cool mornings. The check Engine light is also on steady. I suspect a bad thermostat, where is it located? How difficult to replace. I signed up for ALLDATA, but it was useless. None of the Chilton or Haynes manuals have up to date info.
Thanks

dako_tian · May 2004

Good point. I will adhere to the subject.

Besides, my cars have never lied to me. Well, come to think of it, there was that one, sticky gauge.... ;-)

badgerfan · May 2004

Certainly sounds like a simple thermostat problem. I don't know where they are on current Tauri, but historically, the thermostat is located in a housing mounted on the engine on the end of the large upper hose that runs from the engine to the radiator. This is usually not a very expensive problem.

Depending on exact age and mileage, you may still be under the 36K, 3year bumper to bumper warranty.
If so, then the fix becomes very inexpensive.

snowman · May 2004

You may have bad coolant temperature sensor too. You might want to get your code read first to determine what is wrong. Either of them (t-stat, CTS) requires to drain coolant down to certain level, change both of them. they are cheap parts. As I recal, CTS needs to be replaced every 2 years.

307web · May 2004

Does the Vulcan engine have any advantages at all other than it is a few hundred dollars cheaper?
Apparantly there is no fuel economy savings, so why bother? They could just discontinue the Vulcan engine all together and make the Duratech standard which would simplify things and probably cut a lot of the extra cost of the Duractech.

badgerfan · May 2004

Well, the Duratech was at one time a stand alone option, at least in my model year 2000 SES, and MSRP price adder was $695.

Now it is available only on SES as part of an option package and is standard on SEL, so it is part of a package, so not so easy to determine the price adder of the engine alone.

Lots of people are very happy with the performance of the Vulcan, so why should Ford drop it and raise the price of the entry level Taurus LX and SE models?

Note the Duratech is used in more than just Taurus/Sable these days(a versuib us used in Escape, Mazda 6, Lincoln LS, Mazda MPV) and Ford may have production capacity limitations.

badgerfan · May 2004

I see I had a typo after it was too late to edit "a versuib us" should have been "a version is".

Sorry, I wasn't trying to type Klingon!

shamrock22 · May 2004

Thanks. I had a local AutoZone read the DTC, it was P0125. I guess since I am not getting heat it's not a CTS problem but a stuck thermostat. Can you point me to the Thermostat housing? I assume it's on the right side of the block.

snowman · May 2004

Locate your battery, left of your battery, you will see upper radiator hose, just follow it. And, do yourself a favor and use only Motorcraft part unless you go with lower temp. rating. Like I said, you need to drain some of your coolant down to level below t-stat so when you open the housing, coolant won't spray out.

tig2002 · May 2004

I am thinking about purchasing '00 Ford Taurus for my Dad. I liked the smooth ride of this car when I test drove it and the engine sounds very quite. I have seen and heard many good feedbacks about this car as well as bad ones. What is your (Taurus owners) opinion on the Taurus' reliability? Is there something particular that I need to pay attention on before I buy it? Your input would be greatly appreciated.

tig2002 · May 2004

Any suggestions, advice? I hope someone will respond.

badgerfan · May 2004

If you read back on the posts in this discussion and also the Taurus/Sable discussion in the Sedans section you should get a good idea.

I have a 2000 SES with the Duratech engine and am very happy with it, though I am far from being at the high mileage point-I have 38K miles on it. Current Generation Tauri are very good solid sedans, and there do not seem to be any particular widespread problem areas as far as reliability issues.

You should be able to pick up a 2000 model quite inexpensively as well. I would definitely recommend you look for one with the DOHC Duratech V-6 if possible, though the base Vulcan engine is adequate for most peoples needs, but provides less power with no particular increase in fuel efficiency.

badgerfan · May 2004

Well, we have picked up the 92 Sable and I have done a few maintenance items, new tires and alignment, new wipers, changed air filter, changed oil and filter, checked all the other rubber parts, fluids, etc and all seems well.

The brake rotors are apparently a little bit warped as there is some brake pulsation when coming from high speed stops, but not much, so we will let that go for now.

One item I have noticed that is a bit puzzling for a car with this low mileage is there is about 1/4" or so of free play in the steering. Anyone got advice about what this could be and any fixes? Are there any steering rack adjustments or other adjustments that can be made?

wijoco · May 2004

Unfortunately, no. Taurus steering racks develop play, and there's no remedy but to replace it with a new one. You can check the tie-rod joints, but if it's not in there, you'll have to live with it.

tig2002 · May 2004

Thanks badgerfan,

I will search previous posts for known problems. I see mixed opinions in reviews, so I guess the Taurus is a lottery, as any other car, but with slightly less chance to win.

dako_tian · May 2004

Like you, I'm looking for a used Taurus. My reasons primarily involve the high safety ratings from both IIHS and the NHTSA, as well as the fact that these cars depreciate a whole lot faster than an Accord.

So, while it might be a lottery with a slightly lower chance of winning, you pay a whole lot less for the ticket! ;-)

"You lays down your money and you takes your chances."

badgerfan · May 2004

Before my current Taurus I drove a 1990 Taurus that had no power steering rack problems for the ten years and 98K miles I had it. So why this 1992 Sable with only 24K has a bit of steering play I do not know. I didn't get a lot of time to investigate it much, but maybe I will look at it a bit closer when I get another chance.

snowskier · May 2004

have a 2000 Sable LS wagon with 40k. We generally like the car. We are a little disappointed in all the recalls, but I guess that's the way it is.

Just had the oil changed at the Firestone tire shop and the tires rotated. Went to pick the Sable up from Firestone, paid etc, then went out to drive the Sable off. Well get this, went to start the car, the engine turned over (Duratec i think), the car didn't start, because then top of the engine blew off! They told me it had something to do with the air intake. Its a rather large black plastic part with valves in it, and it's bolted on top of the engine. It basically blew apart! It sounded like a shotgun going off and then lots of smoke came out!!! The engine never started. So now the car sitting at Firestone waiting for a tow service to get it to the dealership. Of course Firestone said there was noway an oil change could cause the top of the engine to blow off (apart)! Is anybody aware of this problem, is it a recall item, just a freak thing? Any idea on repair costs. I am just really upset about it, and am wondering about future reliability cause this is my wifes' car and our long distance traveling car, even though it only has 40K miles, it's our best car, or should I said, was our best car. Thanks for any tips!

snowman · May 2004

YEs, plastic intake is a problem for Duratec engine. There were some people in other forums that experienced this issue. Firestone people have nothing to do with that. This particuler intake explodes anywhere it likes. Not every Duratec though...
Search on Google, you will find results...

alcan · May 2004

Look at the tie rods ends, outer and inner.

snowskier · May 2004

Thanks, great tip! Went to google and found the following site http://www.samscars.com/gf41.html It is exactly what happened to our sable with pictures and everything. This is a recall item known as PCM reflash. In the article the individual did not get the recall work done and had to pay some money, fortunately we did the recall work, so now I will see what the dealer has to say about a repair bill. I will let all know what happens.

shamrock22 · May 2004

I replace the Thermostat, it was actually in the lower radiator hose. The old Thermostat was stuck open by a part of the termostat that had broken off.

badgerfan · May 2004

I suppose it is possible tie rod ends are worn, however I would think that worn tie rod ends would have been noticed when I had the front end aligned. I know tie rod ends were a weak point with 1st generation Tauri, maybe second as well. Next time we get a chance I will review the situation closer.

snowskier · May 2004

I have a 2000 Sable LS Premium wagon. Just had my brakes adjusted, new pads and rotors turned. Now it sounds like bird chirping! When I apply brakes the chirping stops. Anybody have an idea what that could be?

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