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What Would It Take for YOU to buy a diesel car?

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    stever said:

    It's good to see - they need to tweak the tests to get closer to the real world results, or just test the ones on the roads. Reminds me of all the tweaks the EPA has had to do over the years to try to get mpg ratings that are somewhat real. Too bad it's too expensive just to have the regulators do all the testing in the first place.

    What you are saying is totally revisionist history ! Bas Ackwards if you will. Car makers test their vehicles in the REAL world, but if they don't post per EPA/CARB direction, law, they're screwed!

    So really you should post a video of a test driver driving the EPA/CARB test. It is not, I repeat NOT the real world! The driver does test/drive a graph on a screen ! It is insanity if one expects to get real world driving emissions & mpg figures from the EPA test run ! You will get EPA/CARB TEST figures!!

    So for example, I post what I really get in the real world on 4 diesels and folks probably think I'm insane?
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    Oh no. No we don't! :p

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2016
    That's what I'm getting at - the mpg test is done in a lab on a dyno with professional drivers using "real" gas and the results are spot-checked. Of course the ratings are done so you can compare models to models and there's all sorts of warnings that your mileage will vary. And consumers are always mad because their mpg doesn't get near the test results. But at least you can figure out that a compact will get better mpg than the Homermobile you lust for.

    But for emissions, we need to get out of the lab and out in the real world where our real lungs live. That means real testing with sniffers or whatever that will make it harder for the testing to be spoofed on test day and in the weeks after.
  • slorenzenslorenzen Member Posts: 694
    gagrice said:

    I know I haven’t lost a relative, I just want to be treated fairly.’ They are all quite reasonable.”

    I just want my $1000 Visa cards and a New VW Touareg TDI LUX. B) White with Saddle Brown Leather.

    Would you please donate the current ride to me? I'll create a tax deductible foundation...

    :p
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    Slow diesel News Day! :'(

    ULSD $1.89, RUG $1.87, PUG $2.11.

    I signed up for, but have not receive the (2nd) $1000 VW care package & VW Roadside Assist. B)

    Filled 12.88 gal, 476 miles for (shy of) 37 mpg. (2014 MB GLK 250 BT @ app 28,000 miles) Terrible commute traffic! It's reputedly the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd WORSE commute in the NATION! The week leading up to the Super Bowl 50 didn't help either !

    So how about those Denver Broncos ???!!!

    Talk about insult to injury! http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/cam-newton-super-bowl-taxes
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    slorenzen said:

    gagrice said:

    I know I haven’t lost a relative, I just want to be treated fairly.’ They are all quite reasonable.”

    I just want my $1000 Visa cards and a New VW Touareg TDI LUX. B) White with Saddle Brown Leather.

    Would you please donate the current ride to me? I'll create a tax deductible foundation...

    :p
    Can't say I blame you there ! It's a pretty sweet ride!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    slorenzen said:

    gagrice said:

    I know I haven’t lost a relative, I just want to be treated fairly.’ They are all quite reasonable.”

    I just want my $1000 Visa cards and a New VW Touareg TDI LUX. B) White with Saddle Brown Leather.

    Would you please donate the current ride to me? I'll create a tax deductible foundation...

    :p
    And you would know being the only one here at Edmunds to see it. I got a feeling I will have to be happy with the $1000 gift. Which I have not received yet either. I went on line and claimed it the day I got the letter. I will give them a month before I call and check on it.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    ruking1 said:

    Slow diesel News Day! :'(

    ULSD $1.89, RUG $1.87, PUG $2.11.

    I signed up for, but have not receive the (2nd) $1000 VW care package & VW Roadside Assist. B)

    Filled 12.88 gal, 476 miles for (shy of) 37 mpg. (2014 MB GLK 250 BT @ app 28,000 miles) Terrible commute traffic! It's reputedly the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd WORSE commute in the NATION! The week leading up to the Super Bowl 50 didn't help either !

    So how about those Denver Broncos ???!!!

    Talk about insult to injury! http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/cam-newton-super-bowl-taxes

    That is crazy the way CA taxes, Oh I forgot, they get me good every year. I should have never given up my Alaska residency.

    The result: Newton will pay California 86.3% of his Super Bowl earnings if the Panthers win. Losing means his effective tax rate will be a whopping 172.2%. Oh yeah, he will also pay the IRS 40.5% on his earnings.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2016/02/03/california-taxes-will-eat-up-all-of-cam-newtons-super-bowl-earnings/#2715e4857a0b7b9fb0de50a6
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I spoke too soon. Just walked down and picked up the mail. And there is my VW love gift. I have to take it to my dealer for certification. Then I have till Jan 2017 to spend it. I will get a couple nice VW TDI shirts for sure, to show my appreciation.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I'll have what you are having! Does it beat something like this? http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gm-recalling-half-million-trucks-220513536.html
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    Meanwhile in the other fish to fry department, VW has airbag issues, that cost MB app $457. per car. This can't be good news.
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagen-recalls-680-000-vehicles-in-u-s-due-to-air-bag-problems-1455108890
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Another cover up by the automotive industry.

    The issue involves defective inflator and propellent devices that may deploy improperly in the event of a crash, shooting metal fragments into vehicle occupants. Approximately 34 million vehicles are potentially affected in the United States, and another 7 million have been recalled worldwide.

    http://blog.caranddriver.com/massive-takata-airbag-recall-everything-you-need-to-know-including-full-list-of-affected-vehicles/
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't think there's a car left out there that doesn't have air bag problems. The latest batch I read about didn't even involve Takata.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    Yes, another government FORCED boondoggle. I bet you the government doesn't even know how many lives saved by installing all these dangerous airbags, that of course we were told were SAFE !

    If we are to use GM's ignition problem as an example, (subset) it probably would've been way CHEAPER to pay off the death claims of those that put airbags in as an option,( dying as a result of deploying that option) rather than force airbags on everybody. Again the critical concept here is choice.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2016
    The other option was four point seat belts. I heard that the manufacturers fought those harder than airbags or the three point belts. Get strapped in real good and how are you going to play with all your gadgets?

    Not much on topic either but I had mostly forgotten about the Flying J/Pilot conspiracy mess.

    Ex-Pilot president, 7 others indicted in diesel fuel rebate fraud (knoxnews.com)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2016
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:
    Why wouldn't all parts of the emissions system be under that 80K mile EPA mandate? Seems Toyota had some battles over catalytic converters going bad prematurely. Tell me again what good the EPA/CARB is for the consumers and those that breathe the air?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If this is a systemic problem with VW TDI Adblue cars, I would not buy in a cold state. Or buy where emissions are not tested and remove the entire Adblue system. I'm sure that is a simple procedure to eliminate the need for Adblue. Save you money along the way, and make very little difference in NOx emissions.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2016
    gagrice said:

    Why wouldn't all parts of the emissions system be under that 80K mile EPA mandate?

    Excellent question. Not sure if that story has legs but if it does, I guess other news outlets will pick up on it. There's some other VW news but I feel like I'm piling on too much (easy target?).

    I did notice DEF at one of the Interstate truck stops the other day for sale for $2.49 a gallon at the pump.

    Diesel here is mostly $1.89 with one station a dime cheaper.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    gagrice said:

    If this is a systemic problem with VW TDI Adblue cars, I would not buy in a cold state. Or buy where emissions are not tested and remove the entire Adblue system. I'm sure that is a simple procedure to eliminate the need for Adblue. Save you money along the way, and make very little difference in NOx emissions.

    The engine won't run if the adblue is not there. Removing the system would require a software change.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited February 2016
    stevedebi said:

    gagrice said:

    If this is a systemic problem with VW TDI Adblue cars, I would not buy in a cold state. Or buy where emissions are not tested and remove the entire Adblue system. I'm sure that is a simple procedure to eliminate the need for Adblue. Save you money along the way, and make very little difference in NOx emissions.

    The engine won't run if the adblue is not there. Removing the system would require a software change.
    I am sure it would require both software and hardware tweaks to eliminate the Adblue system. The engines run in the EU without so it can be done. Just don't get rid of the stuff, you may have to redo to OE for sale. A large number of diesel & gas PU truck drivers disable their emissions except for the bi-annual CA testing. That is why I see diesel gate is a lot of to-do over nothing. Not to mention the money wasted on CARB could be used to improve the worst public schools in the Nation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7wbK7xk8gM
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    In the meantime, how does a buck gas sound? http://www.wsj.com/articles/gas-at-1-looms-soon-for-parts-of-u-s-1455038613

    With probably cheaper ULSD prices, that would put my 15,000 miles per year commute cost at roughly 31 to $35 per month !
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    .99 cent a gallon gas sounds scary cheap.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I remember it, late 1998.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    GO REDDING!

    Diesel on!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    stever said:

    .99 cent a gallon gas sounds scary cheap.

    I'm OK if YOU, Eco con or anyone else for that matter, wants to pay four $$ to 10 $$ a gallon! I am sure the Eco cons can easily find ways for ONLY Prius' says to pay up to $10 a gallon ! ? Or folks like... You! :D
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2016
    I'm always wary of the unintended consequences. Like my taxes taking a big jump, since oil revenues make up 25% of the budget here. And I have a lot of friends up in Alaska with their jobs and pensions at risk. $4 is a bit much, but I'm pretty okay with gas around $2.50 a gallon.

    And while it's nice to "stick" it to the Saudis et.al., just how destabilized to you want Russia to get?

    As they say, interesting times.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    stever said:

    I'm always wary of the unintended consequences. Like my taxes taking a big jump, since oil revenues make up 25% of the budget here. And I have a lot of friends up in Alaska with their jobs and pensions at risk. $4 is a bit much, but I'm pretty okay with gas around $2.50 a gallon.

    And while it's nice to "stick" it to the Saudis et.al., just how destabilized to you want Russia to get?

    As they say, interesting times.

    I'm not sure what you mean, nor am I sure what you imply, but the USSR collapsed TOTALLY before & after it's involvement in Afghanistan. Literally, nobody knew that ! Probably more importantly, not too many people cared ! 40 to 45 or so years ago, the USSR was a walking dead basket case. We did get a lot of people on Social Security, Medicaid and Welfare from Russia! To this day, Russian immigrants get HUGE educational benefits ! The Russian mob even found a new home!? You do remember that we even got a Russian president who "defected"!?
    So at 15,000 miles per year @ 36 mpg and $1.00 at gallon for diesel, yearly commute cost hits $417. ! /12 mo= $34.75 per mo! CPMD: fuel= 2.78 cents ! T
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    It's just a case of being careful what you wish for. You may get it.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2016
    Good link - the other consequence of hammering the oil companies is that the overall stock market is down and part of the reason for that is the oil glut. The fact that my brother owns some Exxon means nothing. ;)

    Diesel prices may be due for a crash, per this Bloomberg story discussing the Chinese refiners.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    stever said:
    Is he joking? Only diesel 7 passenger is the Old Ford Excursion. Or an even older GM Suburban from pre 1996. I would guess you might get one of those for $10k. 197 Diesel Excursions selling from $74k down to $8k. Cheapest with less than 100k miles is $17k, Only 21 have 100k or less miles. Most are over 200k miles.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    gagrice said:

    stever said:
    Is he joking? Only diesel 7 passenger is the Old Ford Excursion. Or an even older GM Suburban from pre 1996. I would guess you might get one of those for $10k. 197 Diesel Excursions selling from $74k down to $8k. Cheapest with less than 100k miles is $17k, Only 21 have 100k or less miles. Most are over 200k miles.
    Very true. Another option would be an Econoline diesel, but those are equally difficult to come by, and a 4x4 conversion on one of them puts them in pretty pricey territory (more than an Excursion) even for miled up versions.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Don't tell us, tell him. :)

    What's wrong with high miles? Everyone says diesels are good for at least 500,000 miles. :p
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    stever said:

    Don't tell us, tell him. :)

    What's wrong with high miles? Everyone says diesels are good for at least 500,000 miles. :p

    Cost!

    The real question: what is the closest repair facility geared for maintaining commercial vehicles that sees hard commercial use. You need to play in THEIR wheelhouse.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    Speaking of unintended consequences, one of the familys' work schedule was able to be changed, so that commute travel is during off-peak times! Loads of time ( 40 min vs 1.5 to 2 hours) is being saved. To a lesser extent, mpg is saved. I'm expecting 1 to 2 mpg, (better) so in the best case, we might get 38 mpg. We have alreadyon a couple tanks posted 39 MPG? They are also able to incorporate Wi-Fi days from home. As you can probably guess, " time" is much more important than MPG. Over a years time, that might be 22 gallons, or app $45 to $50. I guess the Fed state county and local entities really don't want you to save that much fuel!?

    Again way off topic, a lot of folks are used to the Amazon "delivered concept", which if you had to go out and buy that particular item, you'd have to use your car that many times more often. Amazon & our local grocery store and the grocery store in the SOS/DD trek offers to also deliver your groceries. Both Amazon and the local grocery stores have $ minimum limits.

    The federal, state, county and local entities governments are really following a time worn line of stupidity. But then, that is nothing new.

    For a very long time, the goal was to cut down on the use of fuel. But then, when they actually cut down on use of fuel, they are now complaining that they're not making enough tax money: ON, the use of fuel! DAH! A blind man should've seen that one coming and I apologize to the a blind man !

    CA state (Ours) is complaining that businesses are moving out of the state. People are moving out of state. Commercial properties are going bankrupt. etc. etc. Local bitneses are going under. New businesses won't even try to start! Makes you wonder why they even complain about it in the first place.

    Oh and if the "diesel gate" chicken littles are to be believed , they want it to seem that TDI's cause ALL the pollution in the USA , i.e. the AIR is more dirty ! With all that going on "unintended consequences " the air should be cleaner right ?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2016
    Pay by the mile may be coming soon. And as soon as they get all the highways and bridges redone from the added taxes, we'll be doing more work at home, more drone delivery and foregoing the expense of personal cars for Ubers. So all that fancy new concrete will just go to waste.

    Since I've worked at home since '83, I guess I'm way ahead of the time/gas game eh?

    Q&A: Can Mercedes’ new engine save diesel? (topgear.com)

    A - no idea, not going to click through 9 pages of clickbait to find out. But it's a slow news day....
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    Yes, working from home is the only (place to work) way to go! I think that is why everybody & all the governments rules makes it so very hard to do !

    Yes, and pay per mile driving TAXATIONS will /should be a business expense! ;)B) That would imply they will/should drop the tax on ULSD and RUG. In CA, anyway that would make per gal at least $.64 cheaper.

    While the linked article is WAY good, ( I say bring it on & yippee yahoo, advantage diesel!!! ) it goes right over the heads of all the ECO cons. The mathematics has NO/ZERO relevance in the ECO CONS fantasy world , as if 6 mo old, then change your smart phone, I pad, laptop, with tons of batteries recycled etc concept is "sustainable". !?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited February 2016
    My taxes are a bit easier since I don't have to do quarterlies anymore and I don't bother with home office deductions. My wife didn't want to work at home though, and there's something to be said for interacting in meat space.

    btw, there's some encouraging VW sales number that I posted elsewhere. China is saving the day.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    I am not sure I understand ? If you're trading ease for cost effective tax dollars, that doesn't make alot of sense? Congress seemed to make permanent (some to most) tax rules, aka C & S Corp. benifits: better than they've ever been ! So yeah, it's really nice to be able to write off i.e., really good coffee beans, etc of course!

    Personal interaction will always be important! However, team modularity (across time & space zones) has been an integral part of work life, for a very long time.t
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That deduction was a bit of bother for the actual dollar return and while I have a spare bedroom/office where my desktop lives, I mostly work at the dining room table or on the couch or in the hammock. Back when I was doing Schedule Cs and all the rest it was okay, but now I usually come out ahead with the standard deduction and save a lot of time. I finally balanced my out of town bank account last week - I was only 13 months behind on it. ;)

    Bringing this back around to diesels, hopefully it won't take VW 13 months to get their corporate books in order. That one recent postponement got some of their bigger investors hot and bothered.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    stever said:

    That deduction was a bit of bother for the actual dollar return and while I have a spare bedroom/office where my desktop lives, I mostly work at the dining room table or on the couch or in the hammock. Back when I was doing Schedule Cs and all the rest it was okay, but now I usually come out ahead with the standard deduction and save a lot of time. I finally balanced my out of town bank account last week - I was only 13 months behind on it. ;)

    Bringing this back around to diesels, hopefully it won't take VW 13 months to get their corporate books in order. That one recent postponement got some of their bigger investors hot and bothered.

    Affected TDI's (likes mine) are WAY farther down on the snapping sound apparatus of the bull whip! It has been 5 mo since the Sept. 2015 news beak! . Approvals have not been agreed to, let alone approved.

    Further , I think there is a lot of truth both upfront and de facto when the EPA/CARB says affected (my) TDI's are safe, legal and OK to drive. The smog test (in effect and) effectively gives anybody/me a two-year approval. They really don't need to (really ) check it to know that it's A OK and just fine!

    Do you think the EPA cares when they send highly toxic waste water into a NM river? What are they doing about it? NOTHING!! Don't like it? Sue us? You have a great chancel of not winning, after decades of litigation. Win? Fine, we will just raise your taxes to pay for it!!
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Did anyone else catch that zinger reply (last paragraph, page 8) in the Mercedes diesel article?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Ah, someone clicked through all 9 pages. I didn't - what did we miss? :)
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    edited February 2016
    stever said:

    Ah, someone clicked through all 9 pages. I didn't - what did we miss? :)

    I am not clicking thru again, so I will paraphrase : Question- Did dieselgate cause you to rethink spending all that money on a new diesel? Reply, no, our biggest worry about dieselgate was if diesel was outright banned because of the misreporting of the main street media.

    I clicked all the way thru because I am considering buying a diesel E Class, and wondering if I should wait until the new model comes out later this year.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    houdini1 said:

    Did anyone else catch that zinger reply (last paragraph, page 8) in the Mercedes diesel article?

    Yep, caught it & commented on it, in a post a while back!

    My two take: even the current " 2.1 L TT, 3.0 L T) bluetecs will be a 30 year life span products. The new MB diesel will set the bar ever higher, for even gassers! ADVANTAGE DIESEL ! For at least another (40 years) generation after that! It remains to be seen how the gasser technology will address the issues raised in the MB diesel article !

    I personally would not be a first year adopter, but that's just a personal bias.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Thanks @houdini1!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    edited February 2016
    It's been a couple of Slow News Diesel Days! $1.89 ULSD, $1.79 RUG, $2.03 PUG !

    The VW Customer Care Package for the 12 VW Touareg TDI came yesterday in the mail! The MB GLK 250 BT is posting about 35.5 miles per gallon.
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