Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

abacomike · May 2016

tjc78 said:

The Lincoln is a 64. It has the little piece of trim from the wheel arch to front bumper.

My Dad owned a 1964 Lincoln Continental. Those rear idiot doors were a bit scary when he was double parked and I had to get in on the street side. It was white with black leather interior. That was the first and last Lincoln Continental he ever bought. He went back to Cadillac after that experience. Too much plastic in the knobs and dashboard. Very cheaply made car compared to the Cadillacs he bought. He used to buy a new Cadillac every year. I guess that's where I picked up my bad car buying habits.

The Lincoln ride was too soft and "mushy" compared to the Cadillac Sedan and Coupe DeVilles he used to own.

verdugo · May 2016

snakeweasel said:

Actually the link that Andres linked to was a traffic engineer talking about traffic calming measures designed to reduce traffic speed when entering a more congested area which would require slower speeds. Totally different than what Andres was implying.

I'm shocked!!! (not really)

abacomike · May 2016

verdugo said:

Actually the link that Andres linked to was a traffic engineer talking about traffic calming measures designed to reduce traffic speed when entering a more congested area which would require slower speeds. Totally different than what Andres was implying.
I'm shocked!!! (not really)

Me too! To use totally irrelevant citations or research or studies to prove a point that has nothing to do with the topic at hand is heresy, pure and simple!

abacomike · May 2016

There's a great commercial on TV for Infiniti. This young man is sitting with his father - obviously a very wealthy family - trying to tell his father he wants to by an Infiniti vehicle. The father is shocked by his son's decision citing the fact that the family is a BMW/Audi/Mercedes-Benz dynasty and his decision to buy anything but a German engineered vehicle is intolerable.

Have any of you seen that ad? The ad agency that came up with that idea is to be commended. There are many non-German vehicles that are superb in their own right - Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, etc.

fordfool · May 2016

stickguy said:
I had one car that would run the fan for a while if you turned it off when still real hot. I just forget now which one it was! Was a little bit unnerving.

I seem to recall that on some makes the fan could be stopped by removing the ignition key;
otherwise it could be dangerous to work on an engine when the fan could start automatically.

abacomike · May 2016

Since my CLS400 is about to turn 6 months old on May 24th, I contacted SIRIUSXM to see how much they wanted for a 1-year extension to their "all-access" plan which includes all the channels and Internet radio which I use a lot at home on my iPhone and computer. At first they wanted $199.99 for 12 months. I said no and told them to cancel my subscription. I would still get traffic and weather for another 30 months which is included on the car.

They transferred me to their cancellation dept. and they said they are running a special - $119.99 for 12 months. I agreed to the price since the Internet radio is important to me and the all-access plan includes everything. So I want to thank all of you for teaching me that the cost of satellite radio is very negotiable. Kudos to all of you.

dino001 · May 2016

abacomike said:
There's a great commercial on TV for Infiniti. This young man is sitting with his father - obviously a very wealthy family - trying to tell his father he wants to by an Infiniti vehicle. The father is shocked by his son's decision citing the fact that the family is a BMW/Audi/Mercedes-Benz dynasty and his decision to buy anything but a German engineered vehicle is intolerable.

Have any of you seen that ad? The ad agency that came up with that idea is to be commended. There are many non-German vehicles that are superb in their own right - Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, etc.

I have seen it. This is not the first time Infiniti runs the angle of breaking "the mold" of buying German.

stickguy · May 2016

$10 a month for something you enjoy, and use all the time? A bargain to me.

look at it this way (using some driver style logic). If you deprive yourself, and live another 10 years, someone will inherit an extra $1,200.

roadburner · May 2016

I just got 6 months for $35.94. Come November I'll cancel and renegotiate once more.

Michaell · May 2016

My daughter let the subscription lapse in her MINI a while back.

Decided she wanted it again and got some phenomenal rate - don't know the exact amount but it seemed pretty low.

abacomike · May 2016

stickguy said:

$10 a month for something you enjoy, and use all the time? A bargain to me. look at it this way (using some driver style logic). If you deprive yourself, and live another 10 years, someone will inherit an extra $1,200.

I stopped off at the casino for a couple of hours - won $200.00, which more than paid for the 1-year extension for all-access SIRIUSXM. Even got a free lunch out of it. Yes, I'm very pleased with my decision to continue with satellite radio.

driver100 · May 2016

stickguy said:
$10 a month for something you enjoy, and use all the time? A bargain to me.

look at it this way (using some driver style logic). If you deprive yourself, and live another 10 years, someone will inherit an extra $1,200.

I think the stick method has to be reserved for special situations.

In Mikes case, Driver Method says for $10 a month, 35 cents a day, why deny yourself, go for it!

Stick method, I want a new car, $30k, who would I prefer to have it, me or my SIL?

fezo · May 2016

I don't know. Sirius really doesn't cut it for me, but I can't argue on the price.

So, if that Vette isn't a 62 what is it?

We didn't have a 58 Plymouth, but did have a nice, new 57 Plymouth Custom Suburban wagon. I was maybe 14 when it died so my take on how miserable it was is limited. As long as mom delivered me where I wanted to go....

stickguy · May 2016

I like hanging around here. Makes me feel young! The oldest car I can remember from my family (disclaimer, I had a real small family!) is an early/mid 60's FS chevy wagon my parents had. That is the one I remember riding in the rear, looking at the road go by through the rust hole in the floor. The first I really remember is the 69 Volvo they bought when I was about 7.

My one grandfather had a late 60's Galaxie when he died. The other side had a VW 411 and a 412 wagon (at the same time, gluttons for punishment). But the Volvo is the oldest car I really experienced. I can't recall anyone having an actual old car like something out of the 50s!

jwm40517 · May 2016

Fezo the Corvette is pre 1962 or 1961 from the tail lights.

ab348 · May 2016

I vaguely recall the '56 Ford Crown Vic my parents had a year or two after I was born. It was a 2-door hardtop, yellow and black. My memory is of the colours and the chrome, and seems to be based upon one particular ride I had in it. The first car I clearly remember riding in was their next one, a '59 Ford sedan they bought new, black and white. A year or two after they got it, it was hit hard while parked in front of our house. The car that hit it was impact-welded to it, I remember the tow truck guy saying, and they really had to work to separate them.

Michaell · May 2016

I remember the '50-something Ford pickup my dad drove before he bought the '70 Chevy.

And, I remember where the VW dealer was when my folks bought the '67 Squareback that we drove across country in the summer of '71.

28firefighter · May 2016

On Sirius, I actually like the programming and listen to Howard Stern all the time (via my Dad's account). However the audio quality is absolutely awful, particularly compared with HD radio. The trial on the GTI expires in a couple weeks and I'll let it lapse.

stever · May 2016

My Dad's '53 Buick Special had that same hole in the floorboards, @stickguy.

nyccarguy · May 2016

I know a lot of you guys are in the tech industry. Has anybody dealt with a company named VEND? They are a point of sale (cloud based) company out of Toronto. I think they might be the ones to pull my company out of pen & paper sales invoices.

js06gv · May 2016

abacomike said:
Since my CLS400 is about to turn 6 months old on May 24th, I contacted SIRIUSXM to see how much they wanted for a 1-year extension to their "all-access" plan which includes all the channels and Internet radio which I use a lot at home on my iPhone and computer. At first they wanted $199.99 for 12 months. I said no and told them to cancel my subscription. I would still get traffic and weather for another 30 months which is included on the car.

They transferred me to their cancellation dept. and they said they are running a special - $119.99 for 12 months. I agreed to the price since the Internet radio is important to me and the all-access plan includes everything. So I want to thank all of you for teaching me that the cost of satellite radio is very negotiable. Kudos to all of you.

I had the exact same experience (cancellation dept tactic) and also renewed for the "special" $199.99 last week, except in my case the leased car won't be with me for another entire year so I just did 6 months for $60. Still an increase though, as I used to snag that deal for $29.95.

oldfarmer50 · May 2016

Michaell said:
My daughter let the subscription lapse in her MINI a while back.

Decided she wanted it again and got some phenomenal rate - don't know the exact amount but it seemed pretty low.

Had "free" Sirius with the wife's PT but got a letter saying it would cost $13 activation fee. Tore the letter up and never used it.

What part of free didn't they get?

tjc78 · May 2016

28firefighter said:

On Sirius, I actually like the programming and listen to Howard Stern all the time (via my Dad's account). However the audio quality is absolutely awful, particularly compared with HD radio. The trial on the GTI expires in a couple weeks and I'll let it lapse.

Isn't that the truth. I also believe it's gotten worse over the years too. My wife complains that the Bose stereo in our Enclave isn't that great (she is right it isn't) however the other day on the way to work instead of XM we were listening to music stored on her phone (my ripped high bit rate MP3s) and she said wow that sounds great almost as good as the Lacrosse's stereo. My response was "ive been telling you XM sounds like crap, do you believe me now". She said I guess so but the Lacrosse's stereo was still much better.

I'm not sure why Buick has Harman Kardon in the Lacrosse and Bose in the Enclave. Most manufacturers stick to one premium brand or at least group of brands. I know Hyundai uses Infinity and in the Genesis and Equus uses Lexicon which is a sub brand of Harmon (Infinity, JBL, etc).

driver100 · May 2016

nyccarguy said:
I know a lot of you guys are in the tech industry. Has anybody dealt with a company named VEND? They are a point of sale (cloud based) company out of Toronto. I think they might be the ones to pull my company out of pen & paper sales invoices.

If they are out of Toronto they must be good!

graphicguy · May 2016

Sirius....if you like it, those sound like pretty good deals ($75 to $100/year subscription). But, agree with most, sound quality is terrible, even with only talk stations.

Not a lover of Bose (except for their tiny blue tooth speakers and noise cancelling headphones I always use in planes). But, there must be different levels of Bose systems in cars. The system in my CTS sounds great. The Bose I had in my long gone but not forgotten Tahoe, was terrible.

Same with the Bang & Olefson.....the B&O in my Audi S4 was "ho-hum". The B&O I heard in a loaner A6 was great.

In short, higher the level of car, the higher the level of stereo, perhaps?

Still, the best stereo I've had in any car, has been, and still remains, the Panasonic unit in my Acura TL.

Update on the son's quest for a new car. Test drove the Mazda 3 last night. While a nice, fun car, he can't shake the drive he had in the VW GTI. Dealership we originally talked to about the GTI had an S with the performance pack, or a base model with the performance goodies only.

Unfortunately, they had already sold it since last week. That said, we test drove a regular GTI. As he said, "not sure the regular GTI isn't more suited to me, given I'm not going to autox it." Any other perforance packages the dealer could find in a 3 state area were all tarted up with Autobahn Package, etc.

I agreed. Regarding the GTI, hard to tell there was 10 more HP, limited slip and bigger brakes in the Performance Pack. Probably could tell quite easily if it was being raced. But, it's just going to be his daily driver. Very "Audi-esque" interior (which is a good thing). Actually, the whole car feels higher quality than the Focus ST or the Mazda 3 (his other candidates).

I think I love the GTI as much as my son does. Even in "S": trim, it's pretty well loaded, with Apple CarPlay, which I love so much in my CTS. I think my numbers are locked in. I believe there's about $2,000 in trunk money on the GTI. So, taking advantage of VW's precarious predicament, my deal is $1,750 under invoice.

My son's 2012 Fiesta has 40K miles. A simple wash, wax and tire black puts it on the front row of a dealer's lot with $11,999 on it in big numbers. Looking around at dealers, they're asking between $10,500 and $12,500 for similar Fiestas with more miles. So, thinking those cars will sell in the $9,500-$10,500 range. I'm figuring anywhere between $8K-$8,500 should be doable on the trade.

Now, he's just got to decide what color he wants. Will keep everyone updated.

imidazol97 · May 2016

@driver100
It looks like the front ends on the 58 Dodges are the same but is the body shorter as a Plymouth doghouse and on back?

driver100 said:

snakeweasel · May 2016

graphicguy said:
I agreed. Regarding the GTI, hard to tell there was 10 more HP, limited slip and bigger brakes in the Performance Pack. Probably could tell quite easily if it was being raced. But, it's just going to be his daily driver. Very "Audi-esque" interior (which is a good thing). Actually, the whole car feels higher quality than the Focus ST or the Mazda 3 (his other candidates).

If it's his daily driver he will never notice the difference of the 10 HP and stuff unless he is a very aggressive driver and then he still might not notice it.

abacomike · May 2016

Many of you guys complain about the sound quality of Sirius music and talk radio. I had the same opinion up until this new CLS. Satellite music is as good as HD or iPod music now. I noticed that this audio system comes with better graphic equalizers and Sirius music is not as flat as it used to be, but rather is more crisp with much improved definition. I think it all depends on the audio system match with satellite reception configuration. I have a Harman/Kardin 650 watt 15 speaker system with two woofers.

The new E Class is coming in with Bang and Olufson systems only - no more Harman Kardin. I don't know if that will be true for their whole line, though.

graphicguy · May 2016

@qbrozen.....I know this was a while ago, but I vaguely remembering you asking for the VIN# on my old CTS so we could see where it ended up. Going through some old paperwork last night, I found it, if you still want to do a trace.

1G6AX5SX6E019408

driver100 · May 2016

imidazol97 said:
@driver100
It looks like the front ends on the 58 Dodges are the same but is the body shorter as a Plymouth doghouse and on back?

driver100 said:

Some Dodges look like the red one below, and some looked like a Plymouth. Not sure why they did it that way. My guess is the red model seems to be offered as a 2 door hardtop or convertible, maybe the Plymouth copy was to give Dodge a cheap and easy way to offer a 4 door model.

graphicguy · May 2016

TJC....MIKE:

I think XM just compresses their signal so much to limit the SAT bandwidth they have to license, their sound, while better than regular over the air analog signals, just can't compare with lossless audio signals.

You can mitigate some of the loss of sound with equalization, as you point out Mike. And, I know if I fiddle with the equalizers in my CTS, it does make a difference.

If there are programs you like (TJC mentioned Sterns), and there's only one way to get them via XM, then it's worth it. But, in the end, I find all I need I can get for free on Podcasts, which I download to my iPhone to play in my car. Always sounds better than XM/Sirius. Music is much better via my iPhone, too.

driver100 · May 2016

GG If you love and appreciate the way a car handles and feels, it is hard to find something better than a VW/Audi. They know how to build fun and engineering into their cars.....unfortunately they aren't too strong on reliability, but, it depends on how important that is to you. Personally, I would risk it....you really feel alive with a well engineered great handling car. VW are addictive....hard to match for driving fun!

imidazol97 · May 2016

graphicguy said:

1G6AX5SX6E019408

@graphicguy
I had asked you about it and suggested doing a check to see where the car went
after it was turned back to the dealer/Cadillac with all those problems.

There's a digit missing within the last seven digits.
1G6AX5SX6E019408 compared to
1G6DV1EP1E0124268 for a VIN for another 2014 Cadillac CTS at Cadillac/Suburu.

sda · May 2016

graphicguy said:
TJC....MIKE:

I think XM just compresses their signal so much to limit the SAT bandwidth they have to license, their sound, while better than regular over the air analog signals, just can't compare with lossless audio signals.

I have found that the sound quality varies from station to station, not sure why. Some sound flat, others not so. XM 66 (Watercolors--jazz) sounds among the best. My wife doesn't listen to XM much so I decided to terminate it in the Pilot. About a week later she says, I miss XM, can you restore it?? I held off and about month later we receive a letter from XM encouraging us to come back for 6 months for about $30. Presto, with all the additional royalties, fees, $37, done.

abacomike · May 2016

graphicguy said:

TJC....MIKE: I think XM just compresses their signal so much to limit the SAT bandwidth they have to license, their sound, while better than regular over the air analog signals, just can't compare with lossless audio signals. You can mitigate some of the loss of sound with equalization, as you point out Mike. And, I know if I fiddle with the equalizers in my CTS, it does make a difference. If there are programs you like (TJC mentioned Sterns), and there's only one way to get them via XM, then it's worth it. But, in the end, I find all I need I can get for free on Podcasts, which I download to my iPhone to play in my car. Always sounds better than XM/Sirius. Music is much better via my iPhone, too.

Yes! It took me a while to fine tune the graphic equalizers, but it was worth it. On my audio system, each function maintains its own settings apart from other functions. There are distinct and different settings for equalization and Logic 7 surround sound for SAT Radio, CD/DVD, FM, AM, iPod (called media interface - I have 2 of those jacks in my console), etc.

If your audio system has only one setting for all inputs, then you have to manually adjust settings for each function.

imidazol97 · May 2016

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:
@driver100
It looks like the front ends on the 58 Dodges are the same but is the body shorter as a Plymouth doghouse and on back?

driver100 said:

Some Dodges look like the red one below, and some looked like a Plymouth. Not sure why they did it that way. My guess is the red model seems to be offered as a 2 door hardtop or convertible, maybe the Plymouth copy was to give Dodge a cheap and easy way to offer a 4 door model.

The ones with the Plymouth bodies are for Canada and the ones with the wedge-shaped tailfins are the USA model.

http://www.forwardlook.net/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=29527
Trigger alert: this one uses facebook
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.889824791084586.1073741830.867898849943847&type=3

roadburner · May 2016

abacomike said:
Many of you guys complain about the sound quality of Sirius music and talk radio. I had the same opinion up until this new CLS. Satellite music is as good as HD or iPod music now. I noticed that this audio system comes with better graphic equalizers and Sirius music is not as flat as it used to be, but rather is more crisp with much improved definition. I think it all depends on the audio system match with satellite reception configuration. I have a Harman/Kardin 650 watt 15 speaker system with two woofers.

The new E Class is coming in with Bang and Olufson systems only - no more Harman Kardin. I don't know if that will be true for their whole line, though.

Since I got my home systems dialed in I have become less picky about my in-car audio. The H-K system in the 2er is fine(although I may replace the speakers- a relatively inexpensive plug-and-play upgrade). Sirius doesn't sound too bad either.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2016

"...now where did I put that bike....."

graphicguy said:
@qbrozen.....I know this was a while ago, but I vaguely remembering you asking for the VIN# on my old CTS so we could see where it ended up. Going through some old paperwork last night, I found it, if you still want to do a trace.

1G6AX5SX6E019408

You're one digit short there, GG.

ab348 · May 2016

imidazol97 said:

@graphicguy
I had asked you about it and suggested doing a check to see where the car went
after it was turned back to the dealer/Cadillac with all those problems.

There's a digit missing within the last seven digits.
1G6AX5SX6E019408 compared to
1G6DV1EP1E0124268 for a VIN for another 2014 Cadillac CTS at Cadillac/Suburu.

Maybe that explains all the problems!!

Mr_Shiftright · May 2016

I've heard of some people keeping one digit of their VIN when they sell the car--a kind of souvenir.

stever · May 2016

Don't they recall the last digit when they do a buy-back under GG's circumstances?

Mr_Shiftright · May 2016

Well it was only 16/17ths of a car.......

imidazol97 · May 2016

I have known several people in my lifetime whom I thought were one digit short. LOL

oldfarmer50 · May 2016

If GG thought that 98' Cobra was pricey he'd have a heart attack at this one:

https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5580986335.html

stickguy · May 2016

and the top on this one doesn't even go down.

Plus for 30k, you could buy that guys house in Scotia.

I would have paid the 10K on the red convertible. It looked that nice.

Mr_Shiftright · May 2016

Interesting. CARFAX shows more miles and two owners.

henryn · May 2016

graphicguy said:
TJC....MIKE:

I think XM just compresses their signal so much to limit the SAT bandwidth they have to license, their sound, while better than regular over the air analog signals, just can't compare with lossless audio signals.

I have found that the sound quality varies from station to station, not sure why. Some sound flat, others not so. XM 66 (Watercolors--jazz) sounds among the best. My wife doesn't listen to XM much so I decided to terminate it in the Pilot. About a week later she says, I miss XM, can you restore it?? I held off and about month later we receive a letter from XM encouraging us to come back for 6 months for about $30. Presto, with all the additional royalties, fees, $37, done.

I used to have very good "ears". I helped a lot of people set up high end audio systems, back in the 70's. These days, age has clipped off the very high frequencies, but I still know good sound (at least up to about 11k).

Sirius XM is using lossy compression, much as encoding to MP3. And so the bit rate matters, quite a bit. And I would further surmise that they are using variable bandwidth to the different channels. A talk channel (sports, news, etc) can get by with much less bandwidth (think 96k mp3). I would think a jazz music channel would need more bandwidth, a higher quality mp3, than an "easy listening" channel. Say 192k for jazz, and 160k for easy listening.

I tend to listen to rock and roll, 25 (Classic Rewind), 26 (Classic Vinyl), 27 (Deep Tracks) and the music sounds very good to me in my Cadillac with Bose.

When encoding to mp3, I use the latest version of lame, and the "--preset extreme" setting. This gives a variable bit rate averaging between 250 and 280. I think XM radio is not that good, but is definitely as good or better than 128k mp3 files. Maybe averaging 160 to 190, or in that range. Quite listenable, to me.

YMMV

carnaught · May 2016

With my getting XM renewed every 5 mos. for their promotional rate of about $25, that amounts to about $60+ per year, and that's for all stations. The sound is quite good on our Audi's B & O, and Lexus' ML audio systems, although I still liked the H-K system in my 5-series BMW the best.

andres3 · May 2016

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

States get a LOT of tax revenue, over and over and over again, on just one car. Doesn't seem right, does it?
Lots of things don't seem right when the government is involved:
Gambling is ok if the government is involved.
No proof red light cameras cut down on accidents, but the government can make lots of money from them.

By the way, I read about a way that really cuts down on traffic light corner accidents, but you can't generate money from it. One is to have longer amber lights...just need 2 or 3 extra seconds, and the second is to have a red light in both directions for an extra two seconds. Those two things actually make a big difference.
I think most studies that haven't been corrupted or doctored show that red light cameras actually increase accidents, rather than reduce them. Also, in actuality, as little as 1 second extra yellow light time is plenty to drastically reduce red light running and make intersections safer. Also, drivers should be trained to only go forward on green when it is safe to do so; not just blindly go when the light turns green.

Some NMA members recently got a Philadelphia Traffic Engineer (PE) to admit the reason they added lots of wide bike lanes wasn't due to the number of bicyclists, but to slow people down with purposely poor traffic engineering.

I'm with the NMA on this issue, bicyclists should thank motorists for the roads and bike lanes the car and fuel taxes pay for. In other words, bicyclists are leeches on the roadways they don't pay for.
You wouldn't have a link to that would you? If true that would be a shocking admission.
If he has it, it's likely not what the NMA promotes it as.

Actually it's pretty close. Here in Albany they are proposing restricting motor vehicle lanes in favor of bikes which will cause tremendous headaches for drivers.

I've always suspected that some of the "safety" measures politicians are taking is really an agenda to harass drivers. Part of a larger campaign against hydrocarbon energy.

I take it you actually read the articles I linked

ON another topic:

You can bet your bottom dollar that insurance companies would rather not insure "driver-less" cars as long as they keep getting in an extraordinary amount of accidents; regardless of fault. Everyone knows this is due to strict adherence to the speed limit, rather than driving safely, but some people just can't accept the Soloman curve because a flawed study refutes it. Like it or not, speed limits by and large are not set for the purpose of safety in the US.

andres3 · May 2016

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

States get a LOT of tax revenue, over and over and over again, on just one car. Doesn't seem right, does it?
Lots of things don't seem right when the government is involved:
Gambling is ok if the government is involved.
No proof red light cameras cut down on accidents, but the government can make lots of money from them.

By the way, I read about a way that really cuts down on traffic light corner accidents, but you can't generate money from it. One is to have longer amber lights...just need 2 or 3 extra seconds, and the second is to have a red light in both directions for an extra two seconds. Those two things actually make a big difference.
I think most studies that haven't been corrupted or doctored show that red light cameras actually increase accidents, rather than reduce them. Also, in actuality, as little as 1 second extra yellow light time is plenty to drastically reduce red light running and make intersections safer. Also, drivers should be trained to only go forward on green when it is safe to do so; not just blindly go when the light turns green.

Some NMA members recently got a Philadelphia Traffic Engineer (PE) to admit the reason they added lots of wide bike lanes wasn't due to the number of bicyclists, but to slow people down with purposely poor traffic engineering.

I'm with the NMA on this issue, bicyclists should thank motorists for the roads and bike lanes the car and fuel taxes pay for. In other words, bicyclists are leeches on the roadways they don't pay for.
You wouldn't have a link to that would you? If true that would be a shocking admission.

If he has it, it's likely not what the NMA promotes it as.

The NMA is about the most straight-shooting organization I've come across in life. The misinformation tends to come from insurance companies, government, and associated entities that profit from those two things.

The fact they published the letters of correspondence from the engineer and members word for word completely unedited in their newsletter attests to that. See for yourself; I posted a link.

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