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Ford Expedition 4WD Problems

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Comments

  • alwaysfords2alwaysfords2 Member Posts: 339
    edited March 2012
    A4WD can be driven on "tractive surfaces". Actually there is at least one year (1999) of Expeditions where there is no 2WD selection. A4WD is your only choice for normal driving. This discussion of course applies to 4x4 models, the Expedition is also offered as a 2WD. You seem to be confused about what A4WD is. It is intended to sense wheel slip in the event the driver doesn't realize the surface is slippery. It normally operates as a 2WD, but automatically engages four wheel drive based on conditions. It does this by monitoring wheel RPMs at all four corners and when a difference is detected it engages 4WD. It keeps it engaged until the sensors say there is no more wheel slip. In other years the selector switch has 2WD, A4WD, 4H and 4Lo. The issue of tires is very relevant to this type of system as it is with AWD. Ask any tire shop. I keep both my 03 and 04 Expeditions in A4WD all the time. One has 165k miles the other has 75k miles, all original mechanicals. I had a 99 Expedition that had 100k on all original mechanicals. I've also had an AWD Explorer as well as a manual locking hub Bronco so I think I'm pretty well versed in the issues.
  • alwaysfords2alwaysfords2 Member Posts: 339
    Since you are likely to debate what I've suggested, here is the description of it from the owners manual
    " A4WD (4X4 AUTO) provides electronic control four-wheel drive with power delivered to all
    four wheels, as required, for increased traction. This is appropriate for all on-road driving conditions, such as dry road surfaces, wet pavement, snow or gravel".

    You are also wrong to suggest with the front diff locked ABS stops working, but that's another topic.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    You said: "..It normally operates as a 2WD..."

    That's EXACTLY what I said.

    A4WD is a PART-TIME 4WD system that normally operates in RWD (Explorer, ETC) or FWD (idiot vehicles).

    Think about it, with the CENTER diff'l locked, Part-Time 4WD, ABS cannot independently control the braking level in the front without impacting the rear, and vice versa. Same goes for TC and VSC. Every system I know of, have read about, that has the ability for actual 4WD (locked center Diff'l) automatically disables the individual wheel or driveline braking unless one driveline can rotate mostly independent from the opposite driveline.
  • alwaysfords2alwaysfords2 Member Posts: 339
    We are talking by each other. Actually I was talking and you jumped in the middle. I've only been talking about A4WD, you are the one who started in with what could and couldn't be driven on dry pavement, misunderstanding that the discussion was about A4WD.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited March 2012
    No, you were not the author, "beginner" of the most recent line of questioning on this thread. There are appearances that the questioned vehicles are inadvertently going into, or maybe even unwittingly, being put into 4WD mode on reasonably traction surfaces.

    The problem we have "today" is the level of trust that was built up in the past for RWD/4WD and R/awd was well warranted. Now we have a class of new drivers who have not a clue as to the patently unsafe nature of FWD vehicles and now F/awd systems. "It" worked well in the past, so why not today..?

    Yes, there are literally MYRIADS of differing AWD system designs out there in the marketplace today, most of them "base" FWD. Base FWD since it is those that can most benefit from the distribution of at least some level of engine torque away from the traction coefficient with which we maintain, sustain directional control.

    The only "base" FWD....F/awd system I would recommend would be the SH-AWD. But at the same time we must take note of the inappropriately high driveline component failure rate with the SH-AWD. High failure rate very likely arising from the STELLAR operational nature of the SH-AWD, undue, inappropriate, STRESS level incurred via daily use of torque re-apportioning, up to 80% to the rear in a tight or accelerating turn, even with no threat to loss of traction being present.

    Let's also not forget that there are likely a lot more readers of these posts than actual participants, readers who rely on the information posted here.

    Yes, these modern day "automatic" AWD systems will often ALWAYS make use, by default, of 4 wheel drive mode at times when Loss of traction, wheelspin/slip, is most likely to result should the roadbed traction coefficient be marginal.

    The problem is that means that the clear majority of the time, times when the roadbed traction coefficent is satisfactory, or even well beyond, those systems still put the driveline components under extra stress and heating.

    You may note the high level of "awd" driveline stress failures as a result.

    Life was much, MUCH easier back in the days when RWD was dominant and extra traction meant having a 4WD mode. It was easy to get owner/drivers to understand why the 4WD mode should only be engaged with specific roadbed conditions.

    Now we have automatic "AWD" systems that will switch into 4WD mode, or partially so, the ~90% (99%...??) of the time it is needless, only to prevent todays owner/drivers from being forced to gain a small bit of additional intelligence.

    On the other hand the patently unsafe nature of FWD, and/or F/awd, has sorta forced the manufacturer's "hand". As a matter of safety, purely a matter of safety, these MUST always pre-emptively re-apportion engine torque to the rear any time, ANY TIME, there is a high potential for wheelspin/slip to result, otherwise leading DIRECTLY to loss of directional control, or potenially so.

    Obviously not an issue with a RWD, R/awd, or even 4WD.

    Should those,except the 4WD mode, lose directional control, regardless of road conditions, the fault lies directly with the driver's lack of reacting quickly. Get OFF the gas should that have been the base causative factor, or counter-steer, turn into the skid, should the initial oversteering event be not the fault of the driver. Or BOTH.
  • awcorbsawcorbs Member Posts: 1
    Hi I have a 2005 expedition and it won't come out of 2wd. This morning when I was going to work my 4x4h light came on and I never touched the dial and then when I stopped the light came off. Please help as I don't know what or where to go from here.
  • knox1975knox1975 Member Posts: 1
    1999 4.6 expedition, got this with out a front drive shaft, got a used one and installed it, now having problems when I try and turn sharp corners, feels like the front tires are skidding. It only has the a4wd 4h and 4l selector switch, it there any way to disconnect the a4wd so It is not engaging
  • alwaysfords2alwaysfords2 Member Posts: 339
    knox1975 said:

    1999 4.6 expedition, got this with out a front drive shaft, got a used one and installed it, now having problems when I try and turn sharp corners, feels like the front tires are skidding. It only has the a4wd 4h and 4l selector switch, it there any way to disconnect the a4wd so It is not engaging

    You can pull the fuse for the A4WD system, the engagement is electronically controlled. This may help, unless something is wrong in the transfer case which is keeping the drive shaft engaged.
  • srbuck46srbuck46 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2005 Ford Expedition, drivers side wheel has a growl in it when going down the road, I have replaced the hub, bearing and seal and the pinion and it is still growling, when putting it in all wheel drive or 4wheel H it is making a terrible noise and when unlocking does not unlock all the way, I am backing up just to get it to unlock but still seems to be grabbing and that is what is making the front wheel growl, any ideas?
  • darrenhandballdarrenhandball Member Posts: 1
    my 2001 expidition has the same problems with my 4 wheel drive. I can feel the front tires spinning but when i try to put it in low it wont go and i put it back in a4wd and it drives fine . Cant afford to do a major fix right now im on disabilty and nopt well any help
  • 2001navia4wd2001navia4wd Member Posts: 2
    edited April 2016
    About 1.5yrs ago I had an emmediate drop in MPG in my Navi. Dropped about 3mpg, and I have been trying to solve it ever since. Now I am here! I have an 01 Navi with A4WD, 4H, 4L. All instrument lights show as if it is working correctly in and out of A4WD & 4H, and I can here it engage when going in and out of 4L. But I do not think it is ever actually coming out of 4H. In A4WD, the front wheels slip/skip when doing a slow tight turn on slightly wet asphalt, or on any dirt/gravel. I've had my front driver side axle (by the tire) make a loud popping noise when turning tight on dirt getting onto the throttle twice over 2 years (so loud that I got out expecting to see something laying on the ground under it). The sunroof leaks when there is a downpoor and it runs down the posts, which has always scared me about electrical issues. And when I've had it in the shop off the ground, all 4 wheels were turning at the same speed while in A4WD. My rear axle started shuttering last spring, and we put in an auburn locker rear end (limited Slip), we did not change the ratio. But the problem was present before that was done. I also think I am in need of new driver side balljoints, as I can hear a clicking from that corner when making slow speed manuevers. I bought the ride with aftermarket wheels on it. 20" rims, I put on new Toyo A/T tires and had them get me sized as close to stock hieght as possible, but still eneded up almost .25" off. Is it possible for it to be stuck in 4H? How do I check it? How do I fix it? Hope that is enough information to get somewhere with this..
  • alwaysfords2alwaysfords2 Member Posts: 339
    As long as your tires are all the same size, the added height will not effect the A4WD since they are all rotating at the same speed. As far as your description goes there could be any number of things going on. The fact that it isn't doing it on dry pavement suggests it isn't the 4WD locking up. You would be hopping into parking spaces if it was locked in 4WD. I'd suggest maybe CV joints. You are likely to get much better answers than mine over in the FTE website where I see you posted the same question in a number of forums.
  • gilgrauegilgraue Member Posts: 7
    edited May 2016
    I'm having the same issue. Wife says she was cleaning the inside of our 2002 Expy EB 5.4L V8 and she thinks our son may have messed with the switch in the cab because when she went to the store later that day, she said it was acting funny. She got 2 blocks down the road and turned around and went back home. The switch was switched to 4Lo. I tried several things to get it to switch back to 4AWD (there is no 2WD, just 4AWD, 4H and 4L). Nothing seemed to work. I tried to replaced the transfer case motor. After replacing the transfer case motor, the vehicle has some issues at first (hard to turn and very "jumpy" making sharp turns on concrete and vibrates a lot when getting up to speed) but after a couple blocks it will kick in hard and seems like it is driving normal. At first start up and drive, the front wheels kick in extremely hard and now the 4x4 light by the gauges does not stay lit like before, but now it flashes on and off. After new transfer case motor was installed and it was having these issues, I took it back home, pulled the new transfer case motor off and checked the shaft for the transfer case and it was/is still pointed to A4WD and not pointing to 4H or 4L. I am not sure what else to try. I've read on forums to replace the 4x4 module or the GEM Module (what does GEM stand for??). I'm at a loss and trying to fix myself before taking it to Ford where they are going to charge me $100 just to diagnose the issue. ANY suggestions/advise/tips will be very helpful and much appreciated. Thank you!
  • alwaysfords2alwaysfords2 Member Posts: 339
    It will not go into 4Lo by just turning the switch. If you don't follow the procedure it won't do it - it has to be running in neutral to make that shift. The A4WD kicking in starts with the speed sensors, if you have one that is going bad it could be sending the signal to make it kick in. I think the first thing you should do is pull the fuse for the A4WD. That will take the speed sensors out of the mix and make it should act like a 2WD. If it doesn't, your issue is elsewhere. You want fuse 104 under the hood.
  • metallicusmetallicus Member Posts: 2
    Ok so I have a 99 e petition that when I turn it shakes and pops and vibrates all over the place. I unplug the transfer case and remove fuse 104and it still does it. I had someone else drive and I got out and looked and I could see the transfer case was shaking and banging all over during a turn. So what does this mean I need a new transfer case or is it my rear end doing it or what?
  • metallicusmetallicus Member Posts: 2
    I took the front drive shaft out and now problem is gone so now what
  • alwaysfords2alwaysfords2 Member Posts: 339
    Sounds like the transfer case is the culprit.
  • gilgrauegilgraue Member Posts: 7
    alwaysfords2 said:

    It will not go into 4Lo by just turning the switch. If you don't follow the procedure it won't do it - it has to be running in neutral to make that shift. The A4WD kicking in starts with the speed sensors, if you have one that is going bad it could be sending the signal to make it kick in. I think the first thing you should do is pull the fuse for the A4WD. That will take the speed sensors out of the mix and make it should act like a 2WD. If it doesn't, your issue is elsewhere. You want fuse 104 under the hood.

    I've tried pulling the fuse with no change in the problem. I'm at a loss at this point. So far, I've replaced transfer case motor, rear speed sensor, and the 2 sensors that are located at the transfer case motor (one is directly behind the transfer case motor and the other is to the right of the transfer case motor). The sensors were replaced based off of what FORD told me and what I've read online but so far no change in the issue...
  • alwaysfords2alwaysfords2 Member Posts: 339
    Sounds like your transfer case is mechanically locked up.
  • gilgrauegilgraue Member Posts: 7
    Is there anything I can do to fix this? The shaft that connects to the transfer case motor (rectangular shaft that points to 2WD, 4H, 4L) seems like it may be able to be turned by hand but the notch in the transfer case motor itself that the shaft connects to does not line up with the shaft itself (triangular shaft points to 2WD but the transfer case motor itself is stuck on 4H. Is there a way to get the transfer case motor to switch to 2WD to line up with the shaft that goes into the transfer case motor???????
  • gilgrauegilgraue Member Posts: 7
    I'm at a loss and trying to get it fixed myself before having it towed to FORD who will charge me $100 just to diagnose the issue......
  • alwaysfords2alwaysfords2 Member Posts: 339
    You could take the drive shafts out.
  • 2001navia4wd2001navia4wd Member Posts: 2
    alwaysfords2 said:

    As long as your tires are all the same size, the added height will not effect the A4WD since they are all rotating at the same speed. As far as your description goes there could be any number of things going on. The fact that it isn't doing it on dry pavement suggests it isn't the 4WD locking up. You would be hopping into parking spaces if it was locked in 4WD. I'd suggest maybe CV joints. You are likely to get much better answers than mine over in the FTE website where I see you posted the same question in a number of forums.

    Hi Guys, I wanted to give you guys the update on my 01 Navi. See original post above.

    -alwaysford2, you were correct. Shortly after I posted on here my ABS dash light started coming on also. I took it to the dealer later in April to get the code read, and they told me to replace my speed sensors. After replacing all of the speed sensors I still had the ABS light on, and rather than paying the dealer more money to chase the problem, I decided to go to my regular mechanic (the old timer that we all know through someone) in May. He reads the code, speed sensor code again, then he walks to all 4 wheels and pulls and prys on them with a breaker bar. He follows that up with asking me if I'm hearing any noise from that front right side that I mentioned in my original post, "Yeah I have actually" I told him. To the point, the front driver side CV joint and bearing were going out, which was causing the ABS light to come on and the speed sensor to misread, which was also causing my ride to go in and out of 4WD. I had both sides on the front replaced (Whole assembly: bearings, sensors, cv joints), and I am now rolling smooth again in all situations. I got back a little over 1mpg with that, but I followed that up with new coils and plugs which got me back another 2.5,pg, so I'm back to a bearable 15.8hwympg avg.

    Hope that helps someone that reads this in the future.
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