Synthetic motor oil

Mr_Shiftright · June 2001

Your Volvo needed a valve adjustment because it didn't have hydraulic valve lifters I guess. Not a big deal to do that. It's not a Ferrari, after all.

gsleve · June 2001

After reading each and every post for the past 4 day carefully it appears we all have forgotten one important concept PLANNED OBSELESCENCE which is built into or inherent in all products car manufactures are no exempt one must consider that such maintenance practices set by the manufacturer are only designed to the point where the vehicle will perform adequately and not with the view of optimum performance or vehicle longevity a quality synthetic or premium synthetic will provide such enhancements.

A pretty good website that is informational about mineral oil and synthetic oil along with explanation of the inner workings of a internal combustion motor and tribology can be found at http://www.synlube.com/synthetic.htm additonally it appears that their synthetic quite good along with providing to substantial data to its effects on various makes and models of vehicles

kpruzinsky · June 2001

I have been using synthetic motor oil in my 92 Grand Marquis since it was new. I change the oil every 5K miles. I now have 175,000 miles and the car still runs great. I started using it because I had a friend that worked for CT Limo. He said they did some experimenting with it to see if it significantly extended engine life and that they felt it did. Oil changes (synthetic or otherwise) are quite cheap compared to the cost of replacing vehicles.

armtdm · June 2001

I read the Syn Lube page, scary stuff. Several issues, first, they keep saying 100 % synthetic even the carrier oils for the additives are synthetic yes in their product description 5W50 etc. they include the words PTFE and as we know, this is scary stuff to put in oil.

Then they calim 10 years or 100,000 miles on the oil and filter, WOW Did I mis read something here? Please enlighten me. It would take one huge leap of faith to go 10 years/100,000 miles between oil changes without a bypass filter.

Did anyone else have comments on this? Anyone ever use it?

armtdm · June 2001

Yep, to keep the warranty in force one must change the oil every 50,000 miles but the real problem with the warranty is that you must send in a verification card every time you check the oil and add oil. I wonder if their lawyers will ever permit the company to pay off, way too many possible loop holes that they can claim the owner did not follow.

I am impressed with their marketing though, basically lifetime oil, ATF etc. backed by a warranty . Really really curious if anyone has ever done this. Amsoil says you can go 50,000 plus with a bypass but none of their oil go beyond 35,000 miles between changes. Syn Lube says 50,000-100,000 miles! Cost is $20/liter. Not maintenance free though as the verification must be done every 3000 miles.

gsleve · June 2001

Quite interesting comments particularly one about the ptfe resins, before one gets alarmed perhaps we should do some investigation to see whether the ptfe resins that we all have come to know so fondly found in slick 50 and other products is exactly the same ptfe resins in this product or could it be somewhat different in its chemical makeup we need all the facts before a judgement call is made and perhaps the size of these molecules are different as well, there may be some benefit to its use it appears the product does not rely primarily on this chemical yet it work in concert with other chemicals we who post on this website seem a little gunshy about ptfe resins because of the horror stories associated with well known products ie: slick 50 yet this particular product seems to be of a different makeup I recommend you look at the entire website we may all be enlightened besides none of us are chemical engineers, and from talking with the owner of this product he is.

The site in its entirety is quite impressive and makes some logical sense, it is quite in depth more than any other site i've been to. In my humble opinion there might be something to this product.

Additionally he's company is the one that has developed the extended coolant that we have on the market know ie: 5yr 50,000 or ie 5yr 150,000 these coolants are factory fill by manufacturer and intrestingly enough are diluted by a factor of 2 or 4, ye his coolant without dilution is 10yr 300,00mil drain interval

Another piece of info is that GM exclusively works with this company uses them for testing purposes additionally I was told that GM will subsidize half the cost of the product only if that motor is still in production.

Intresting to note this product has been researched and under use for 30 or more yrs

adc100 · June 2001

Thanks for the good information. I will certainly look into this product. It takes more than advertising hype to convince me of something. I only spent 1/2 hour on the site and it will take a couple of hours at least and then I'll need to follow up. I could be convinced to use this product instead of my planned next trial to RedLine.
I tend to go with name brand because although they have money for advertising they also have money for research and the ability to test and produce a consistant product. Mobil's product has demonstrated for me that it can survive 15K oil changes for 200K in multiple tests and have all wear parts come up to new specs. Also they have run a BMW for 1,000,000 with the engine in "excellent condition". For me that's the gold standard that I'll need to see SynLube exceed. In spite of all the words on the Synlube page, I can't really determine if Mobil 1 uses conventional carrier oils.

Also I am uncomfortable with leaving anything in the crankcase much over a year. And as armtdm said : "It would take one huge leap of faith to go 10 years/100,000 miles between oil changes without a bypass filter."

It's food for thought though.

gsleve · June 2001

I can agree with you're reservations however when synthetic oil's came on the scene everyone was against using these new innovations in lube technology I believe the reference used was snake oil, and yet Amsoil, in addition, to others previous to Amsoil were experimenting with synthetic oils, and using it for quite a number of years while in the research and developement stage.

Another note, I see that many on this post have been using moil 1 and have extended drains between 10k-15k without the authorized blessing of the manufacturer least not publicly. We push the envelope of these oils and feel through our experience that this is a conservative safe margin to use. I seem to recall when Amsoil made such absurd remarks (thought back then) engine drains of 25k, a noteworthy company expert in car care put Amsoil's money where their mouth was, using an early 80's Honda Civic, and after considerably mileage somewhere in the 80k range just an approximate there was negligible wear not worth even measuring. Proof had been established.

It seems today there may be another synthetic oil or synsol as it's been referred to that can even perhaps surpass our 35k 25k 15k 10k marks on premium synthetic oils. Is the technology that far fetched even to conceptualize least matrialize on the market? My humble opinion I think not.

Were heading in that direction with coolants and transmission oil's from the factory with extended drain capabilities.

Synlube has currently under testing a vehicle developed in russia designated as a maintenance free car with the exception of checking fluids and toping off. Coolant, Brake, Tranny, gear, oil, they claim 10yr 100k-200k before draining

Leap of faith perhaps, perhaps not, consider this such thinking and expressions were once entertained when synthetic oil's emerged on the lubricating scene, reservations quite high even those professionals in the automotive indutry where once naysayers of this technology and now look 360 degree turnaround and some, strong proponents of synthetic oil's.

armtdm · June 2001

Again, like all of the oils we discuss here, none have "independent" lab test results comparing them to others and that back up their claims. I just do not understand that if they have these why they refuse to name the lab itself. To me this leads one to beleive that the lab is there own etc. Anyway, SynLube does not even post any lab results or comparisons. Just we are the best use us.

adc100 · June 2001

The stuff where these women drove all over California with no oil in the crankcase.. well..er ..one of the crankcases, I guess. Lots of endorsements, lots of testimonials, lots of "we are the best." Kinda how Duralube used to be. Both have been proven to be over-rated snake oils. Now I'm not ready to say this oil is over-rated. But with all of the products on the market-many reputable Mobil 1, Amsoil, Quaker State, Valvoline. It's tough to perform such a quantum leap in thinking from this mom and pop organization. I spent more time looking at the site and I'm not ready to dump my oil as yet. It gets back what armtdm said, no oil including Mobil 1 or Amsoil or others can (or will) absolutely prove their oil is best in a "head to head" independenty comparison. I use Mobil because I think it's best, armtdm uses Amsoil, because he feels it's best. But we really don't know.

dpwestlake · June 2001

I'm waiting for the results of tests being done on a veggie based engine oil. There is a company on Colorado blending a non-toxic biodegradable oil from canola and other veggie oils. It is being tested in fleets including the US Postal Service.

gsleve · June 2001

There is validity in whats being stated, I've been using Amsoil a few years before Armtdm has really wieghed researched heavily before deciding it's use, have found it to live up to it's statements has done well for me still is, I'm not saying anyone has to go out an use this product, synlube just apprising those here of it's existence.

Quite noteworthy is fact that everyone has somewhat rushed and taken that quantum leap and embraced the coolant now marketed, everyone including automotive manuf, this developement was just a few years in the making and now has become the staple of which maintains the cars cooling feature, and yet we were preached every 30k or 2yrs max 3yrs change, because coolant transitions into a corrosive, when left to long didn't see much uproar over this technology seems accepted now wander what gives?

Wander also whats the measuring line and or the touchstone we use to gauge whether one oil is better than another given we are not lubricating engineers or chemist, what sources do we rely on and do we have enough knowledge of all the products and competition to advocate one over the other as being better or best

Does the fact that it is a mom and pop shop negate or nullify the products inferiority or superiority to that of a much larger enterprise that produces lubricants, is bigger better don't think so, time has a way of enlightening us, this company synlube has had a rather low profile over the years comparitive to its competition does that make it's product in and of itself unworthy, perhaps not, does it deserve some attn perhaps

Given the depth of information and explanation into tribology and mechanic of an internal combustion and the major role oil plays, all things appear somewhat logical and reasonable, trying to educate someone prior to selling them their product I think is truly a good thing if anything the individual has a more informed understanding of automotive engineering and lubrications special role.

armtdm · June 2001

I asked about comparisons to other oils and independent lab resutls!

Well, their response follows exactly as sent to me. Rather arrogant too!

Thank you for your interest in SynLube

There are no tests that can compare our products to conventional
Petroleum or Synthetic API Licensed oil that is designed to be used for
3,000 to 7,500 miles, when our product's minimum service life is 50,000
miles.

And 100,000 to 150,000 miles is NORMAL service life, with many vehicles
have been driven up to 20 years or 300,000 miles without ANY OIL CHANGES
!!!

You can contact any and all of our long time customers through our web
listed in "Syn Uses".

Our control tests are done for us by CTC, Southern California Auto Club,
Automotove Institute in Prague, and SouthWest Research and San Diego
University.

Information not presented on our web is proprietary and therefore not
released.

In 26 years that we have offered our "Money Back" warranty, i.e. IF YOU
INSTALL SynLube in YOUR vehicle and are not satisfied with its
performance for ANY reason, just drain and send it back for a FULL
REFUND, no limitations, no time limit, no mileage limit, and in over 26
years and over 17,500 US customers and 34,000 European installations not
one customer ever wanted a refund.

Just try that with: Mobil 1, AMSOIL, Red Line or Royal Purple, Castrol,
Pennzoil or Quaker State!

Our oil makes that much NOTICEABLE difference, no amount of simple few
minute bech tests can or does simulate what happens to real motor oil in
real life operating conditions over 10 year interval, which is typical
for our lubricant.

You have to realize that our formulation which has been UNCHANGED since
1985 still exceeds all specifications of ILSAC, API, ASTM and ACEA for
2002 vehicles, some of these "regulatory" institutions did not even
exsist in 1985 !!! And the basic formula remains esentially same since
1969, It took 22 years of research to develop (1944 to 1966) most oil
companies have not even had their synthetic oil available for that long!

Typical motor oil specifications are for the MINIMAL performance that has
to be met by FRESH OIL, there are no specifications for WEAR, fuel
economy past 3,000 miles nor any long term catalyst or engine durability.

The "bech" test engines used to API specifications are all obsolete, and
only one of the "test" engines is still in production. The API SL
specification for NEW 2000 model year vehicles is 30 months BEHIND
schedule !!!

I believe that spending $165,000 to test motor oil on engines that are
not even in current production is total waste of time, money and
resources, that is why our company test our products continuously in real
life driving in real production vehicles.

See our web "Test Cars".

Sincerely

Miro Kefurt
SynLube,Inc.
1-800-SYN-LUBE

adc100 · June 2001

Dex-cool was developed by GM to cover up a problem with corrosion of their intake manifold gaskets with their V6 engines.. Ethylene glycol it seems was the culprit. I embrace it in my corsica because I don't want another $450 failure. My Toyota and Sentra will continue to get the ethylene glycol treatment.

gsleve: Do you use Synlube??

dpwestlake · June 2001

Somehow getting back the price of the oil in the event your engine is destroyed doesn't sound like a great deal. especially if the manufacturer blames the oil and voids the warranty.

gsleve · June 2001

No I have'nt, still researching it, the dexcool was developed in conjucction with texaco and synlube dexcool is a diluted version of synlubes version

adc100 · June 2001

It was done under GM licence. Dex-Cool is a registered trademark of GM. As I said, due to their screw-up.

ocelot1 · June 2001

I've read just about the entire sit and in all honesty it looks and sounds to good to be true to me. I found that there test vehicles were mostly 30yrs old ,they have about 15 cars on the road from the 80s to a 2001 suzuki esteem but the highest miliage is about 130k you can get 150k out of the bargen brands with the 3000 changes easy. My wife just purchased a 2001 tracker/suzuki and I emailed synlube for a price to convert. 150.00for the kit. I figured if I used the chevron synthetic 5Qt+purone filter 3.69Qt+4.99filter=23.45 I go 5000 changes she will drive close to 10k a year.I can do 6 oil changes for a total of three years at 140.70 bucks so using synlube for me would take 3yrs to break even.The only advantage I see is less oil in the enviroment.This is only a couple of issues. Theirs the less friction/wear/2-4%gas saving they say there oil promotes 3-10 times the life span of the engine. Chevron delo400 75-90 gear oil has a million mile warranty if you use it for the first fill and follow the manufactures change interval in your 18 wheeler and it petrolium based. I thought mobil had a car with a million miles on it with little engine wear? This synlube may be a great product but I'm not seeing the 30buck a quart benefit.

armtdm · June 2001

What surprised me was the ATF change interval of 30,000. My new Buick has a factory fill severe service change of 50,000, 100,000 normal servce. Plus, Amsoil ATF says 2-3 times the recommended change interval. So, no great worthiness here!

Their claim that the Teflon particles are so small and in a unique suspension sort of bothers me given that Teflon has never been proven to provide any benefit that I know of!

yurakm · June 2001

"mixture of coolant and synthetic water", see:

http://www.synlube.com/prod05.htm

Well, once upon a time Microsoft advertised "32-bit mouse" for 32-bit Windows-95. Not better nor worse... but still border a fraud.

tlindeman1 · June 2001

My 2001 Honda Civic recommends ONLY 5W20 oil. To my knowledge, Amsoil is the only manufacturer making that weight oil in a synthetic. Like many others, I am not convinced that this light oil will provide long-term protection of the engine and want to at least use synthetic in this weight. Honda claims that synthetic is fine and 5W30 is ok if 5W20 is unavailable but should be switched back to 5W20 as soon as possible. Will 5W30 synthetic provide better protection and comparable viscosity to conventional 5W20 or am I better advised to stick with 5W20 in a synthetic? I'm hoping that the automaker's push to eke another mpg or two out of their cars by switching to lighter oil doesn't compromise their long-term reliability (Ford is recommending this oil in certain new models also)...

treyh1 · June 2001

An easy way to check is to find a 2000 Civic and see what Honda recommended. If it was 5w30 in 2000 models, and I suspect it was, then I'd go with 5w30, synthetic or not. This is a mileage game for their CAFE, not a benefit to the consumer.

rcarboni · June 2001

I don't think lighter necessarily means less protection. Synthetics typically have better additives and boundary lubricants. These are more important in reducing wear than the oil weight.

wally28 · June 2001

I think Royal Purple has a 5W-20 product.

jukeboxcarl2 · June 2001

There are a few shops in the area that now provide Agip Oil. I asked one shop about it and wanted to see spec sheet. They were unable to find information but said if they found it they would save it or send copy to me. It's supposed to be 100% synthetic, made in Italy, and standard oil in Lambroghinis. They offered an oil change with this for 19.95. Bulk was all they use. Also offered choice of Castol or Valvoline for 14.95. They said the Agip was supposed to be much better than Mobil 1. I would appreciate any further info on Agip Oil. Thanks.

vadp · June 2001

<<<They said the Agip was supposed to be much better than Mobil 1.>>>

and couldn't provide any info to back up the statement.

Also check out their product line. Not impressive to say the least.

http://www.agippetroli.it/uk/prodotti/lubrificanti/lubri_motbenzina.html

pulgo · June 2001

You might want to take a look at the following link:

http://www.uti.com/~hoser/4strokeoil.htm

There are some interesting specifications and data for different oils on that page.

bluedevils · June 2001

The Target store nearest my house (Detroit area) just dropped its price on Mobil1 from $3.89 a quart to $2.94. That is 60-70 cents a quart cheaper than I've ever seen Mobil1. I've checked one other Target near me, and it has NOT dropped its Mobil1 price like that.

Just thought I'd mention it. Mobil1 users may want to check out their local Target store the next time they need to buy Mobil1.

adc100 · June 2001

Are you sure it's not the new Mobil 1 blend.
vadp
Like the "cyclops" How'd you do that??

jukeboxcarl2 · June 2001

Agip not that impressive. Motor Oil Primer was a great site. Havoline is one of the best Dinos and is what I use most of the time. Thanks again for the info.

vadp · June 2001

Smilies: http://mysmilies.com/as/otn-funny/htm1.shtml

armtdm · June 2001

Not impressive at all. Poor descriptions, etc. etc. etc.

adc100 · June 2001

bluedevils · June 2001

No, it's not the Mobil Drive Clean Blend (their relatively new synthetic blend, right?). I've seen that stuff around town, but this stuff at Target is the silver bottle, "Mobil1" "Tri-Synthetic"-- green cap for 10W30, blue for 5W30, etc. It was $3.89 a quart at my Target, which was a decent price. I have no idea why they dropped it to $2.94.

adc100 · June 2001

Need to get me some. I didn't think the "Drive Clean" stuff was their blend. I thought it was to cheap for that. Isn't that the stuffin the solid blue can?? Yhanks again for the info. What are you doing up at 04:30???

Hey Mr Shiftright. Did you get that information I sent????

palfito01 · June 2001

Are Mobil and Amsoil synthetics virtually the same? Which one is better.

I need 5W-20 and from what I have heard Amsoil is the only synthetic so far. Amsoil is telling you to change at 7,500 miles or 6 months, whichever is sooner. The 5W-20 weight Amsoil is different then the other Amsoil weight synthetics. Why do they recommend 7,500 miles and not 25,000 miles? What is the difference between the Amsoil 5W-20 and the Amsoil 5W-30. They have different change recommendations.

Is Mobil coming out with a 5W-20 synthetic any time soon? Thanks.

armtdm · June 2001

The Amsoil 5 W 20 is the XL label which was designed for the quick lube business where people are reluctant to go beyond 7,500 mile changes.(or 3000 for that matter) To capture that market they formulated the XL series of oil. The additive package is not as good ( meaning not as durable for extended use) as the other oils that are slated for 25,000.

It's actually that simple!

rcarboni · June 2001

(I think we need to consolidate topics)

Basically, the Amsoil XL oils are API approved, which is a bunch of marketing hype. Because of the lower levels of phosphorous and such, they don't recommend them as extended drain oils. They simply offer them to people who want a warm and fuzzy by staying within manufacturers recommendations. Here is a better explanation:

http://www.noria.com/boards/thread2.cfm?threadid=471&messages=18#3374

taass · June 2001

This is not a synthetic blend. As adc100 noted, it is too cheap for that. It contains an additive package with slightly more robust detergents. I can't give details because I don't know the details, but that is what Mobil claims. I've used it before in other vehicles with no problems.

dhughes3 · June 2001

Sorry, but I've always had great longevity from Chrysler engines, going over 200K in a couple of instances.
Update on the synthetic oil vs lifter noise: I put in a quart of Rislone at my last oil change, and the duration and severity of the noise is decreasing with every start. I think the Mobil 1 truly must be the cause; just isn't keeping the lifters clean.

bluedevils · June 2001

Mobil now has a synthetic blend on the market. I don't know the exact name but I thought it was "Mobil Drive Clean Blend." The name is quite similar to the name of Mobil's mineral oil, which I think is "Mobil Drive Clean."

I've seen this Mobil synthetic blend oil at a couple different retailers. I think it was $2.59 a quart at both places.

tboner1965 · June 2001

visited two Targets today.

The first, in at 40 and Brentwood in the St. Louis metro area was I believe 4.99/quart. (Ouch)

Stopped at the one closer to home in Fairview Heights and it was $3.79/quart.

So I cleaned 'em out of 5W30 and bought 4 0W30, to compliment the other 4 I have at home. I should be just about good for the next year on the Buick and need another 18-24 quarts of 5W30 to be good for a year on the MPV and SVT.

Happy hunting for the M1.

TB

sailor_moon · June 2001

Stopped by at Wal Mart to stock up on Mobil 1 for $4.27 a quart. Saw a sign that said
" Synthetic Oil Change for $27.00". So, I asked the lady at the counter what kind of synthetic oil Wal Mart uses. She said that it is a customer choice. You can either choose Mobil 1, Valvoline sync power, Castro syntec or Quaker". The oil change will cover up to 5 quarts. Not Bad, considering dino oil change cost $19.00. You will come out ahead if you change your
oil at 7500 miles with synthetic oil compared to changing with dino oil at 3000mile plus added
benefit of synthetic oil. My Honda Odyssey takes 5 quarts, and with oil filter ( $5.00) it costs
me $26.35 plus tax. Next oil change, I will take it to Wal Mart.

yurakm · June 2001

Thank you for info!

Though, it makes sense to check what filter they are using. Any decent filter is OK with 3000 mile change. With extended oil change, I would be comfortable only with a premium oil filter.

adc100 · June 2001

in the summer so that the summer help will have one or two changes under their belt.

armtdm · June 2001

The filter is a key component with changes beyond 3,000. If they included a Mobile 1 filter in theat $27 change that is a great deal, even a Pure One not bad. But if they use Fram you may as well use dino and get it changed every 3000.

john319 · June 2001

I have a Chrysler minivan with 110k miles. It has been changed with conventional oil every 3k since new. It has been using 1.5 to 2 quarts in between changes. I have 2 quarts of Mobil 1 5w-30 synthetic and 3 quarts of Valvoline Max Life 10w-30 and was planning on mixing them on next oil change. The manual reccommend 5w-30 but I figure the engine has high mileage that 10w-30 might be better, especially in the warmer weather. I checked Valvoline's website and they did not recommend mixing oil of different viscosity. Does anyone have any opinions on this? Should I expect to see less oil consumption as well? Thanks.

john319 · June 2001

..the Mobil 1 oil is API SH and the Max Life is API SJ.

dhughes3 · June 2001

I've seen, on this and other sites, several
warnings not to use Fram oil filters. Does anyone have any hard facts to support allegations that they are less than satisfactory? If so, what brand is better? I've seen the Pure 1 mentioned several times, but I'm not familiar with that one. Why is it better, and where can it be found?

dpwestlake · June 2001

oil filter study

Synthetic motor oil

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