Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Synthetic motor oil

1…154155157159160…175

Comments

  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    ruking1 said "but Mobil One products consistently show the LEAST wear and LONGEST durability"

    Wrong. They consistently show the worst wear, as seen for years in many, many UOAs. That correlates with why Mobil1 is known to fail Sequence IVA.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I've remained quiet in this [non-permissible content removed]-for-tat debate for quite a while, however, I've got to break silence now.

    "Wrong. They consistently show the worst wear, as seen for years in many, many UOAs. That correlates with why Mobil1 is known to fail Sequence IVA."

    I'm not sure who's been feeding you these bad Mobil 1 UOAs, but I'm thinking that whomever it is, they're only showing you the worst case results. I've seen lots of Mobil 1 UOAs, some bad, most good or very good. The UOAs that I've run on my own cars have, in every case, come back with results showing that after 10,000 or more miles, the wear metals are lower than the "Universal Averages" for my engines, in spite of the fact that said averages are for only 3,700 miles.

    In addition, when compared to other UOAs run on synthetic oil used in identical vehicles to ours, my UOAs are always as good as or better than the others.

    At this point, it seems that you have an axe to grind against Mobil and are posting things that are at least a bit colored by bias.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Again, I am ok with your anti Mobil One bias. The truth is you don't need me as a foil for your distortions.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Some folks might think this is a P..ing contest between two protagonists, but truly it is not. The sequence test/s that seemingly is SO important/vital to one, does not explain the real world UOA Castrol results, nor does it explain the alledgedly "apparent test sequence failure" of Mobil One.

    I would invite/encourage folks to conduct their own research, especially in one's own interest areas.

    I have already mentioned the VW 505.00/507.00 specifications, so here is one "specialty site" link title Another of course is www.bobistheoilguy.com Folks can search for their cars/oil products/ areas of interest.

    On this above particular specialty site, please also be aware that VW is closely aligned with Castrol. So it is FAR easier for one (me for example) to stay with the "recommended" Castrol products. In fact the Mobil One 5w40, aka Delvac One 5w40, Mobil 1 TDT CI4+ 5W40 does NOT carry a VW 505.00 specification !!!!! As an aside I have been using it for 115,000 miles and with 20,000 to 25,000 miles OCI's !??? Yet the sites UOA's numbers are better.

    So assuming the Castrol product passes the mentioned "vital and important" sequence test AND the Mobil One alledgedly fails it, it does not explain why the Mobil One results are.... better... However, let the UOA's and data speak for themselves. I have made the decisions for my area of interest (this 1/2 example/s) my postings are just the explanations why I made the choice/s.

    You all can use it as a framework for synthetic oil areas you might have interest. Again nothing substitutes for one's own informed choices. After all they are your hard earned nickels !! All the best.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    So! After several years taking advantage of very low mineral oil prices from the automotive parts chain stores, the bargains seem to be over. Seemingly to me, the market has changed "overnight" to no engine oil bargains available. Yesterday I purchased a five quart jug of Quaker State fully synthetic oil. Being aware of the controversy among the brands over who sells the best full syn, I was swayed toward the "Q Horse Power" line which will soon be known as "Ultimate Durability." Go online to the QS syn site, and download a very nice rebate coupon. I think QS is getting pretty serious on quality. It looks like there may be a valid reason for QS to issue the challenge to the other syn brewers.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,147
    Thanks for the coupon note.

    http://www.quakerstate.com/assets/wear-challenge-coupon.pdf

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    YUP ! That is why I like to see the longer term spot and trend UOA's. Of course one should also look at the VOA's to see where they all start at.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    If the QS claim concerning wear proves to be durable, they may put real pressure on the Mobil 1 throne of supremacy. Competition pushes prices down. Is the QS product a group III or a groupIV? I missed that data.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If it is not posted right out there, I ALWAYS assume it is a group III hydrocracked product. If you need to look for a needle in a haystack, that should be a no brainer clue. Indeed Castrol won the arbitration over Mobil One in the first place to call their hydrocracked group III "synthetic" in the first place!!?? This is an oxymoron of sorts in that EM is one of the BIGGEST group III hydrocracker in the US, if not the world. They chose to still refer to synthetic as base stock synthesized, aka synthetic, aka NOT hydrocracked group III, even as they lost the arbitration, aka PAO IV, on up !!!! I bet the competitors would bust a gut if EM called their group III hydrocracked products "synthetic." :blush:
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    For quite some time I have assumed that the lack of this info in plain sight on the label of automotive lubricants was at best an assumption that the typical shopper could care less, and at worst, an act of obfuscation. :confuse:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    This might be a slow news day item, (if it is off topic, let me know and I will not post topics as mundane as OCI's) but I just did a 22,000 miles OCI on a Honda Civic as part of the 80,000 miles scheduled maintenance interval, The oil happens to be the Mobil One 0w20. The old filter was a Fram and the new one is a WalMart SuperTech (made by Champion Labs). Unfortunately I will have accelerated wear till 3/5k due to NEW oil, as described by the past post SAE oil study... but oh well.... :blush: Top up oil over 22,000 miles was app 1/2 qt. (16 oz). The car is used for a bumper to bumper freeway daily commute of 54 miles R/T. We run errands and get groceries on weekends with it. The kids periodically run it to LA LA land and Santa Barbara, CA by way of Sacramento. :shades:

    Off topic, I did rotate the tires a tad early to keep the 10,000 miles rotation interval for the (next round number) 90,000 miles interval.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes and no. Evidently those VERY same competitors that won the arbitration case to call hydrocracked group III products synthetic, i.e., CASTROL, NOW are starting to see the light and are actually using PAO IV as base stocks (% still unknown & so I surmise) and are curiously calling those products.... FULL SYNTHETIC !!!

    MY, MY, MY !!

    So by default does that mean their earlier "synthetic" hydro cracked group III products are/were NOT (fully) synthetic????? Obfuscation!!?? :lemon: Seems they really want to smokescreen the late entry into the PAO IV game, of which Mobil One has been in for easily 25 years that I am acquainted with. For me this also represents easily 1,000,000 miles and 15,000, 20,000, 25,000 OCI's. year in year out.

    So as a sign post 3,000 miles OCI vs 15,000 miles OCI: ask me if I miss 67 oil changes when 334 oil changes will do!!?? ;)
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    It would just be nice if the engine lubricant producers would tell us what is in the jugs they distribute, and in some detail: This amount of X, this of Y, etc. and let us select the product we want under the auspices of "product disclosure." :sick:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Currently one of the real world but "mirrored" ways of doing that is first a VOA, & how that VOA works in YOUR particular application or UOA.( virgin oil analysis, USED oil analysis). This is also applicable for conventional and the oymoronic so called "synthetic" blend oils. Two brands that jumped on the "synthetic" blends (that I can remember in the context of some of the later posts on this thread and given the wording bru ha ha at the time of the wording arbitration: who really KNOWS what they meant by "synthetic blends" ) are Penzoil and Quaker State.
  • rhiebertrhiebert Member Posts: 10
    MSDS data will give some answers to that for you. Remember that the manufacturers have the right to keep much of the ingredients close to their chest, ie. only reveal what legislation requires to comply to regulations. I agree, as consumers it doesn't seem like we matter. On the synthetic blends, the amount of synthetic in an oil doesn't need to be very much for it to be legally called "synthetic".
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    In thinking back, I believe that every bit of synthetic motor oil I have ever used has been held out to be 100% synthetic by the manufacturer. It would seem that the additive packages (perhaps among other ingredients) don't count.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Right, I have read in passing that is as little as 10% and it can be a group III hydrocracked product.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Synthetic/conventional/blend has referred to the base stocks. Additive packs are separate issues.

    link title

    motor oils

    link title
  • highmiler650highmiler650 Member Posts: 75
    I don't think it is appropriate to try to sell your products here!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Solicitations removed.

    MrShiftright
    Host
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    Thank you!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well folks on this Honda Civic, I am looking forward to another boring 20,000 or so miles on the synthetic Mobil One 0w20 oil! I suspect the oil consumption, aka top up oil will be app 16 oz or 1/2 qt in 20,000 miles. The trend has been app 8 oz/.25 qt at 10,000 miles. Off topic: The next exciting event will be the 10,000 miles tire rotation (@90,000 miles) :D

    See you all (for this vehicle anyway ) in about a year !! Wish me boring ! :shades:
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Castrol by way of SWRI even proved their OWN oil presented no statistical differences between their Castrol product and Royal Purple product (per their own data and write ups)

    ..."SwRI did additional tests to independently determine the differences in fuel economy, emissions data and engine temperature between Royal Purple and Castrol motor oils. According to SwRI, “there was no statistically significant difference between the fuel economy, emissions data or engine temperature between the two candidate oils,” NAD said."...

    "BP Lubricants (Castrol- my sic) did not return phone calls from Lube Report requesting comment on NAD’s decision."

    link title

    Originally Posted by from the RP website FAQ
    What is a ‘Sequence IVA’ test and is it important?
    The Sequence IVA test is an industry bench test that is used to test oils for API licensing purposes. Some portray this as a sound methodology for predicting wear protection. We believe the ASTM D-2782 Timken Load Test is a better methodology for predicting wear because the Timken test actually measures a lubricant’s film strength (its ability withstand the effects of load, speed and temperature without breaking down and allowing metal to metal contact). Royal Purple has dramatically higher film strength versus competing lubricants. For instance, Royal Purple has nearly 6 times the film strength of Castrol Edge®.
    • Royal Purple film strength = 113,839 psi
    • Castrol Edge® film strength = 18,979 psi

    Trouble sleeping? Here is some more insomniac's reading material.

    link title
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    My wife found me at my keyboard in a narcoleptic trance and was narrowly able to revive me, as a result of my opening your last two link titles simultaneously in a pair of extra windows. You should warn readers that this imprudent act can lead to profound unconsciousness! ;)

    Well, okay. I'll admit I did enjoy the read...
  • chetjchetj Member Posts: 324
    ball-z...i couldnt go that far...but then again i live in NH with cold weather which is tough even on syn
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    On the subject of Mobil Delvac 1/TDT

    ..."I regularly ran this lubricant out to 90k kms in heavy diesel engines and its viscosity was always within bounds."...

    link title

    Like I said in past posts, I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy @ 25,000 miles. :blush: :confuse:
  • kirbstoykirbstoy Member Posts: 53
    Hi..I have used various weights of Amsoil over the past 20+ years in several different vehicles. I don't know where Amsoil products fit into the discussion threads here about base stocks and OCI's but my experience has been nothing but positive. I had a Chevy van with the 4.3 L V-6 which, after almost 70K miles needed new head gaskets (Thank God for extended warranties). I chatted with the mechanic who did the work and he asked me what kind of oil I used. I told him Amsoil and that I changed it at the Chevy recommended intervals in order to keep the warranty in effect. I asked why he asked the question. He said the engine was clean as new throughout, absolutely no grime buildup and that on the cylinder walls he saw the original machining marks from the factory. I'm not a mechanic but I was impressed. Anyway, that's my anecdotal story.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    My wife was an Amsoil dealer quite a few years ago. My recollection is that in those years the base stock was diester. At that time, there was nothing better on the market, in the opinion of many knowledgeable reporters. Eventually, Red Line appeared touting polyol esters. I was so favorably impressed by those two product lines that to this day, I am not convinced that any products of any other base stocks are even equal to, let alone better than those.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Some folks might vilify products like Amsoil and Redline, etc., but this is one bandwagon I have never been on, nor have ever been tempted to jump on. They are very high quality products.

    My three issues are competitive in nature, and actually the (4th) warranty issue goes away at 01 miles after the warranty.

    1. Is the "bang for the buck there? Are the "higher performance/s" proportionately worth the (generally) higher prices ?
    2. While the cost of shipping is included in any product (i.e,.Mobil One) generally one pays more, to again for shipping
    3. Amsoil/Redline, etc. say they meet the applicable performance specifications and standards (by their own in house R& D and testing) , but they do not go through the independent certification process to actually be able to pass muster.
    Indeed Mobil One does their own in house R&D and testing, and could probably decrease the cost even further by forgoing the cost of the specifications certifications.(products, that actually "wear the badge")
    4. Amsoil/Redline, etc will write you canned letters (boiler plate) if you should ever be denied oem engine warranty service due SPECIFICALLY to THEIR oil being the cause. This might appear to be a small point, but in fact, it is HUGE.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I agree with you entirely that those are the points one must resolve in order to justify the purchase. Here in the Rocky Mountain West, the bargains/rebates on motor oil have gone away, leaving "bang for the buck" a very altered game from , say, a year ago.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."Here in the Rocky Mountain West, the bargains/rebates on motor oil have gone away, leaving "bang for the buck" a very altered game from , say, a year ago...."

    As a plug in to the topic, that is another reason to use "synthetic" oil. @ 15,000, 20,000, 25,000 miles OCI's, that can mean a year to 2 years before an OCI is needed. It can save 5 to 9 times the resources and labor (cost of an OCI) over conventional attitudes (OCI EVERY 3,000 miles) and stock. In addition this can DRAMATICALLY decrease the cost per mile lubricated.

    For example several goals: 1. have only the oil quantity for the next OCI (lowest dollar volume, no wasted dollars sitting on the shelf in inventory) . 2. enough top up oil till the next oil changes (most engines consume oil at xyz rate) 3. one viscosity (i.e. 5w30)

    So one compromise is to buy the oil quantity on sales for X future OCI's and top up oil.

    Things can change during those periods. Funny how when a barrel of oil was in the LOW 100's, motor oil products had many rebates/sales etc. and sans that, the product was CHEAPER!!?? Now that the raw materials are "inexpensive" those very same rebates/sales are more rare and the product is... MORE expensive!?
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I'm always a little distressed by the seeming lockstep pricing in the oil and gasoline market. But then, we tolerate an international cartel that sets supply limits to manipulate the market. Retail prices are just a short step away from there.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I would agree, however as I do more research, I realize how much I do not really know as the answers to your statement can be VERY VERY simple to massively complex.

    I do know I like the side benefit of (in one example to illustrate the point) using 4 L of product in 25,000 miles (25,000 miles oil changes) when 34 L will do (3000 mile oil changes. ;) The cost savings (per mile driven) is also another benefit. :shades:
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    As I recall, you use Mobil 1, correct?

    I am updating my knowledge on the current standings in the (true) synthetic market. I have several vehicles that could do well on synthetic, and I have grown a bit weary of frequent oil changes.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes, most happen to be Mobil One: 0w20, 5w20, 5w30, (recently) 0w30, and 5w40. However, there is one variant, Delvac One 5w40.

    I am also currently using Total Quartz INEO, 5w30, VW 507.00, (French company) which in Europe has 30,000 miles OCI recommendations. After the normal US market boilerplate warranty blather, (10,000 miles OCI- 3 each included with the car) I intend to use 30k oci's. It is rumored to be the oem fill, even as Castrol's products (same 507.00 specifications) are sold @ VW parts counters: when they are enlightened, actually carry it, or you make an issue of demanding it and if they normally don't have it.... order it. Normally they tell you the wrong Castrol product is JUST fine !!!???

    (so I am not being vague, the two variants carry the EXACT SAME nomenclature: however the right stuff is in a GOLD bottle vs the correct for other applications, BLACK bottle.) :lemon:

    I would be careful of one thing, however. (without getting too wordy) Make sure you do NOT have an engine that literally cooks oil. ( I have none that do)

    For example: Toyota has had any number of models with the offending engines. Without admitting guilt or culpability, Toyota has settled past litigated suits.

    Example 2: 03 VW Jetta gassers: 1.8T and 2.0 each have sludging (slight variations) issues.

    The TDI is run on 20-25k OCI's and has NO sludge issues and factory tool markings still visible (to gurus who have actually inspected and measured) on the camshaft lobs.@ 100,000 miles. (the next inspection is due @ 200,000 miles) ;)

    While synthetic (PAO IV and above) oil IS almost massively more resistant to sludging, it is NOT sludge proof.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I'm glad you jogged my memory on the sludge issue, because a year ago I bought a new 2009 Pontiac (rest in peace) Vibe AWD with what I presume to be the Camry-type 2.4L I4 engine. As memory serves, this engine is not known to be sludge prone. Does that check with your remembrance?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I haven't heard one way or the other.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    47,000 + miles on an OCI (oil change interval) and cleareded to go (by a real tribologist) for another 10,000 miles till ANOTHER SAMPLE (NOT change) !!! ???

    See "rlent"link title

    The vehicle is a baby at 183,000 miles....................

    25,000 miles OCI's are definitely belt and suspenders !!!!!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I have read in more than a few web sites that Castrol markets a 5w30 VW 507.00 EDGE product world wide, but not currently available in the US supply channels.
  • burtkburtk Member Posts: 6
    I have some interesting ( i hope ) observations. I think something wrong is with Mobil 1 0-40 here in Poland. While watching closely 4l bottle which i recently bought i figured out that this oil lost VW 503.01 approval !!
    Now it is only 502/505. Is it the same oil as a year ago ??
    So i filled my new VW Passat 1.8 TSI with Mobil1 ESP 5-30. And I was dissapointed. Car is slightly louder and not as smooth as on original VW oil. After 1000 km i change oil again and now i am using Motul 8100 x-lite ester 0-30. After starting engine i can "feel" completely different oil. Car is again smooth, quiet and while cold outside, hydraulic valves are "full" and quiet A LOT quicker. And one more thing - engine warms up faster. Same temperature ( my home :) ) - from starting to 90 celcius water now 6.5 minutes, on Mobil 1 ESP 8.5 minutes. I am shocked !

    Somewhere i have read 504/507 (for example Mobil1 ESP) oils are good for catalysator and diesel engines, not for engine itself. Same story API SL/SM.
    SL=better wear protection.

    Now I believe this is true.

    ps. Sorry for my bad english. And Hi to everybody :)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I wrote a letter to VW last year asking about the very limited availability of 503.01 oil. In VW's response letter I was told that VW and Audi have both dropped the 503.01 oil specification and that 502.00 is now sufficient for all 503.01 applications.

    Regarding the difference that you noticed between the two oils, keep in mind that by definition, when compared to a 0W-30, all 5W-30 oils will be thicker and more resistant to flowing through your engine following a cold start. Nature of the beast. Were the oil grades reversed and you were comparing a Mobil 1 0W-30 to a Motul 5W-30, I would expect the Motul oil to exhibit the symptoms you described for the Mobil 1.

    As for the new(ish) 504.00/507.00, by all accounts they are both more expensive and superior to any 502.xx, 503.xx, 505.xx and 506.xx oil.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • burtkburtk Member Posts: 6
    As for the new(ish) 504.00/507.00, by all accounts they are both more expensive and superior to any 502.xx, 503.xx, 505.xx and 506.xx oil.

    Thats not so obvious. These are "low saps" oils and as I wrote this is not always good for engine. On the other hand it is necessary for DPF filters in diesel engines. But we are talking about petrol. Look at the extremally low TBN number for all 504/507 oils (2 times lower than Full Saps oils ). And low HTHS which is not good for turbo, for sure.

    About 503.01 - why then other oils still have this on the bottles ? Why it is still in my friends new 2009 Audi TT instuction ? And finally I am talking about differences in engine running also when hot. I dont know how this is possible, but i feel smaller turbo lag

    Hours of studying Internet makes me feel 504/507 oils are good for ecology/emissions ( so is API SM) , not for engine wear protection

    And one more thing : Motul specific 504/507 is actually cheaper in Poland than Motul ester 8100 x-lite

    And more - dont You think this versality of 504/507 is suspicious ? Hard to believe theres a good oil for all types of engines.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Thats not so obvious. These are "low saps" oils and as I wrote this is not always good for engine. On the other hand it is necessary for DPF filters in diesel engines. But we are talking about petrol. Look at the extremally low TBN number for all 504/507 oils (2 times lower than Full Saps oils ). And low HTHS which is not good for turbo, for sure.

    TBN and HTHS are a very tricky measurements when it comes to low SAPS oils, however, that in no way means that the oil isn't significantly more capable than traditional Group IV and Group V oils. If anything, the low numbers are simply an indication that the traditionaly methods of oil analysis need to be updated, or a completely different battery of tests need to be created.

    About 503.01 - why then other oils still have this on the bottles ? Why it is still in my friends new 2009 Audi TT instuction ? And finally I am talking about differences in engine running also when hot. I dont know how this is possible, but i feel smaller turbo lag.

    To say that I'm highly surprised that 503.01 is specified for a 2009 Audi TT is beyond an understatement. Could you please post a picture from the Owner's Manual? FWIW, if you look at the published list of approved oils published by Audi you won't find even a single 503.01 oil, in fact, you won't even find a category for 503.01 oils. As a side note, I happen to have kept several of the published copies of VW/Audi approved oils and the latest one that has a 503.01 category dates back to 14-Oct-2003. I also have a document dated 19-Dec-2005 that contains the following quote:

    Changes to VW oil specificaitons

    To simplify the current coding
    VW 500 00, VW 501 00, VW 501 01, VW 502.00, VW 503.00, VW 503.01
    Will be covered by a new code VW 504.00

    VW 505 00, VW 505 01, VW 506 00 VW 506 01
    Will be covered by a new code VW 507.00

    Hours of studying Internet makes me feel 504/507 oils are good for ecology/emissions ( so is API SM) , not for engine wear protection.

    I've never seen any indication that 504/507 oils aren't good for engine protection. In fact, as I understand it, 504/507 oils are approved for even longer oil change intervals than any of the previous oils.

    And one more thing : Motul specific 504/507 is actually cheaper in Poland than Motul ester 8100 x-lite

    Interesting point.

    And more - dont You think this versality of 504/507 is suspicious ? Hard to believe theres a good oil for all types of engines.

    I'm not sure what that means. The VW/Audi 504.00 oil specification is for gasoline engines just as are the 502.xx and 503.xx standards, and 507.00 is a standard for diesel engines as are the 505.xx and 506.xx standards.

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • burtkburtk Member Posts: 6
    Lovely conversation :)
    I do not tell "i know everything";
    I am just asking questions.

    To the last point : every engine needs slightly different oil. Diesel runs slowly and hot and oil should be rather thick and strong - vide 505.01. On the other hand - there is no 503.01 oil ( even if it is historical name ) which is also 505.01. So, there must be differences. As I remember Motul x-lite ester isnt designed for diesel at all.
    You just cant love every person on Earth :)

    You wrote:
    I've never seen any indication that 504/507 oils aren't good for engine protection. In fact, as I understand it, 504/507 oils are approved for even longer oil change intervals than any of the previous oils.
    I am sure longer oil interval does not equal better protection. Thats a pure marketing. Search Internet, ask guys at service - You will find one big VW, Toyota and others "sludge problem". Here in Poland we just cant buy any VW with longlife service !
    Look at professional racing oils - best of all, but only when You change after for example 3000 -5000 max.

    You wrote:
    TBN and HTHS are a very tricky measurements when it comes to low SAPS oils, however, that in no way means that the oil isn't significantly more capable than traditional Group IV and Group V oils. If anything, the low numbers are simply an indication that the traditionaly methods of oil analysis need to be updated, or a completely different battery of tests need to be created.

    TBN - I dont know, You may be right. But HTHS is viscosity at 150 celcius and for me ( and I think my turbo) - the higher the better.
    I have information from "first hand" that low saps, low HTHS, "emission protection system" oils just kill dozens of Renault Laguna Turbos in Europe. Turbos dies in Laguna sometimes even after 10.000 miles when using that oil ! Mechanics say "unoficially" : change your recommended oil as fast as you can or you will have to change Turbo soon. People who changed oil to at least mid saps or oil with high HTHS dont seem to have this problem.
    By the way - low saps oils are Group IV only. 504/507 is not any miracle. To my knowledge Group V oils are only ester oils produced by Motul and Amsoil.
    Believe me, these V Group oils feels different. There is some magnetic interaction between oil and engine - it is even hard to check oil level. It needs even a day or two to stabilize for reading level. After stopping, it is still in the engine.
    I will say it again: none of "low saps" is group V oil.

    And finally : i asked Mobil about erasing 503.01. They did not answered. I asked a question before and answer was on my e-mail next day. Strange, isnt it ?
    By the way I have read rumours about slipping Mobil 1 0-40 into III Group... Maybe even on this forum.

    About photo - i will try.

    best regards
    Burt
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Member Posts: 1,798
    Perhaps this thread may help explain things:

    http://www.auto-rx.com/pages/how-auto-rx-works.html

    (((no, I'm not promoting this!!! It's for info purposes only)))

    The chemist describing it explains it's esters that make the oil more "polar" and more attractable to the metal.

    A number of corrosion removal products (Corrosion X) work the same way.
  • burtkburtk Member Posts: 6
  • burtkburtk Member Posts: 6
    Something more about oil prices : as I sad, in Poland, and I suppose in other EU countries, 504/507 are now cheap oils. For example Castrol Edge 5-30 I can buy on every Supermarket and sometimes it is cheapest oil ( of course we are talking about good syntetic oils )
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    While it is good to have different market (Euro/US/etc) perspectives on "common products," it is obvious to most folks there are chasms and many chasms that might be improbable to impossible to cross across markets.

    So for example, Mobil One & Edge products are available in 5 qt (4.73 L) containers at WalMart. (WalMart as most US folks know are located from almost the MOST rural, to the most urban) Current prices are 26/41 USD respectively. This would come out to be 5.20/8.20. per qt (32 oz). USD. I would submit even though commonly available, it is too rich/pricey for the general car care customers who shops there.

    Now if you are looking for VW 504/507 specification products, right now they are available only at the most specialized of specialty vendors. So at the VW parts counter Castrol LLX (gold bottle) VW 504/507 is app $7.00 per L (33.8 oz)

    I also understand through a quirk or coincidence, a Mobil One product VW 504/507 (# 68001334 A A, # 68001334 A B) can be had at Dodge parts counters.
  • burtkburtk Member Posts: 6
    As I sad before : it is highly possible, that SM (aka 504/507 ) oils are inferior to engine protection.

    I found this: http://myg37.com/forums/engine-drivetrain-and-forced-induction/188842-ester-oil-- 4.html

    "Mark,
    Thanks for the email and congrats on the new Infinity G37.
    I show that the OEM is recommending the use of an SAE 5W30 viscosity oil meeting the recent API SM Service Classification.
    Royal Purple recommends the use of the RP 5W30 Motor Oil.

    The API SM Service Classification has reduced the amount of performance antiwear engine oil additives - capping them at 800 ppm with the theory that reducing the amount will prolong the life of the catalytic converter.
    RP has chosen to continue to make the more robust API SL version as it contains 25% more of the antiwear additive to better protect the engine components. In three years using the SL in engines recommending the SM - we have not had a single claim for damage to a catalytic converter - with some now totally over 300,000 miles on the vehicles. We fell so strongly about this - we offer a corporate warranty. "

    Royal Purple Inc
    David Canitz
    1 Royal Purple Lane
    Porter, TX 77365
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Anymore it is about (specific) specifications !!?? It is a gim me, if the (one) oil can kill multiple birds with one stone (so to speak). I am constantly on the hunt for the magic "all in one elixir" (aka cut down bench stock) I have it down to 4 each Mobil One's categories with 2 each sub categories (viscosity differences) : 1. 0w20,5w20, 2. 5w30, 0w30, 3. Mobil One 5w40 Truck and SUV, Delvac One 5w40 and 4. Total Quartz INEO 5w30 VW 504/507.

    To select an SL/SM for a diesel specification (VW 504/507) just because it happens to meet the SL/SM, would not be what I would do. I would select the oil that meets the 504/507 specification and if they happen to coincide with either SL/SM, then yes, so much the better. I do have oils which meet the diesel engine specifications, that I would use in place of 0w30, 5w30 Mobil in a heartbeat, but I would NOT put 0w20,5w20, 0w20, 5w30 Mobil One in the diesel applications !!! In any case after the meager warranties, you are providing self warranty/ies anyway.

    While you might not care too much about this, the 5w40 in the diesel application seems to show 40% less wear (than the comparable (specific) specification) 5w30 viscosity. How that would apply in a Infinity G37, (5w30) I can only surmise. If it were so in the G37 application 5w40 would probably cause you a slight MPG loss.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles