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Subaru Crew - Meet The Members

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  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Hi everybody,

    I'm in the market for an 01 Forester, and have enjoyed reading through your posts. I have a few questions:

    1) How strong is the AC? I live in Tidewater Virginia, and rely on AC during the summer. I test drove an L a few nights ago, and the AC seemed OK, but I wanted to get feedback from someone with more long term experience.

    2) In prolonged highway driving, how comfortable is the Forester? Quiet? Smooth?

    My local dealer has a Gold 5-spd Forester L in stock, and I think I'm going to jump on it. I would probably prefer an S, but the L really does have just what I'm looking for, and I've noticed that you can pretty much custom install anything else. I'm under the impression that I can get a much better deal on a vehicle that's on the lot, as opposed to ordering.

    The toughest issue so far is parting with my current car -- a 97 Honda Prelude SH. I need something more practical, but that Prelude sure is a sweet ride . . . Luckily, the Forester is fun to drive and has an allure of its own. I had a blast driving it the other night.

    thanks!
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    c_hunter,

    I like the way the new Gold color looks. If you don't need the extras that come with the S, then go for it by all means!

    My two cents to your questions:

    1) I've found the Forester's AC to be more than adequate. The interior volume is fairly large so it will take a longer time to cool compared to a sedan, but it's worked well for me. I live in CA and just a week ago, we had record temperatures of 109 degrees. I'm happy to say that I was quite comfortable without having to blast the AC. Also, window tinting helps quite a bit.

    2) The Forester is comfortable on long drives. I take quite a few trips during the year that require me to drive 4-5 hours. The Forester is much quieter and smoother than any mini-SUV you can find on the market today.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    This really belongs in "modifications" but you all are asking right here...

    You can easily increase the efficiency of your airconditioning system by adding additional insulation to your high-pressure line. Find the AC compressor and you will see a brass line with some foam insulation already around it. Now go to Home Depot and buy some more insulation and cover it better.

    Just like that, you've increased the AC efficiency. Should make a perceptible difference.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Eric: let us know where you race, perhaps some of us can cheer you on.

    Craig: my windows are tinted, but I did add a moonroof. Still, I have to keep the fan on "1" and sometimes still have to turn off the compressor to avoid frostbite. My wife just recharged our other car, since mine was so much cooler. It's definitely adequate at least, even in hot and humid (!) DC summers.

    The seats are firm and it pays off on trips. Motorweek said the same thing in this review. They call it supportive and quiet, and I have to agree (I've been on several trips and always drive).

    I gave up a spunky little car for the Forester, too, so I can relate. At least it's fun enough that I don't feel like I sold out, and the room's been very much needed (we have a 1 year old baby).

    No regrets here, obviously. I'm Crew Chief, and I couldn't imagine this kind of enthusiasm for my previous car.

    -juice
  • befishmanbefishman Member Posts: 8
    I'm about to pick up my Forester 2001 S and have a question about the pricing of the luggage compartment cover. I have reason not to trust the dealership I'm working with (see "dealer shenanigans" in the dealers and pricing discussion). I have the cargo cover listed at $122 retail and $80 invoice. The manager at Premier Santa Fe tells me he can sell it to me for $117 because the invoice price is only available if "port installed", that it costs him more than $80. So basically he's saying that if I had ordered the cover when I ordered the car (2 months ago)I would have it at invoice, but ordering it now (still before I've taken delivery), it'll cost me $40 more. Is this for real or am I being jerked around again? And, is there another place to purchase up this item? I don't want to give this dealership any more of my money than necessary.

    Thanks to all...
    Beth
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    I did watch that Motorweek review about 3 weeks ago. Yes, they were very complimentary towards the Forester, and they did say that the moonroof was huge (!). I noticed that they did say that they liked the vehicle when they had one in their year long term test fleet a few years ago.

    Our local newspaper's Friday automotive section gave a good review on the '01 Forester. They liked it a lot (especially the power), but they also pointed out that the rear legroom area was cramped. BTW, are you aware that Canada has a Dynastar-edition (yes, the ski company) Forester which sits between the L and S version? It somes with Dynastar skis, a ski carrier, running boards (they're quite nice with chrome trim), and unique Dynastar badging. I think that it also comes with the brushguard that is sold as an accessory.

    Drew
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    It was not carried over into the 2001 MY.

    Ross
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    I just read the Sun review of the Forester - what a bad joke! "Oh ...really big sunroof ... the 2000! Forester. In fact the picture is of a US 2000 Forester S. The prices are for 2000 year, etc. Generally positive, but Cato didn't do his homework.

    Ross
  • eric_keric_k Member Posts: 4
    Juice, generally speaking most weekends are spent around DC racing at Ft. Meade on the NSA lots. We are now using a lot a Rosecroft raceway in Ft.Washington MD and this weekend there is an event at the Frederick Keys stadium in Frederick (Harry Grove Stadium) MD. The Pro events are over for the year on this side of the country. Next and final ProSolo is in Utah (I wont be there) and then in Sept the Pro Finale and the Solo2 National Championships are in Topeka Kansas (I will be there).

    Eric
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    Yes, I realise that. I don't really expect too much from the Wheels section though, so I wasn't too surprised. Newspaper vehicle reviews tend to be very biased, due to the fact that advertiser dollars are paying for that section. I heard that a Province reporter was taken out of their auto section because of a particular less than flattering review. Apparently the advertisers squawked and the newspaper bowed to them. Not very good for consumers I might add. The television show W5 (Tuesday nights at 10pm on VTV) dedicated almost an entire show to the car buying situation in Canada.

    Drew
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    I noticed that Japanese spec Subaru Legacys have Xenon headlamps available. Is there some reason why this feature is not available on North American vehicles as well? I'm sure that customers would be willing to pay for them if the price is reasonable (as they are in many vehicles).

    The H6 wagons are roughly in the price range of vehicles which do offer these headlamps as an option, or even standard equipment. It would be nice if Subaru could do the same as well. After all, the headlamps are already mostly developed. They just have to be tweaked to meet US DOT and Transport Canada regulations. I have these Xenon headlamps on two of my other vehicles, and they really do make a big difference (safety factor) in night driving.

    Drew
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    kens, juice, lockc2e,

    Thanks for your input. I took another test drive tonight, and focused on highway cruising. The Forester is really smooth, and I was impressed by how quiet and comfortable it was. Not as "fine tuned" to the road as my Prelude, but that's good in some ways. I think it will be way better on long trips.

    On the inside, I think Honda's controls and materials feel more expensive than Subaru's, but the Forester is still better than most. I'm curious -- for anyone that has compared the premium cloth seats of the S model to the more basic cloth of the L, what's the S cloth like? The L cloth seems a little "thin". That's about my only niggle though.

    I was able to get the dealer down to about $700 over invoice on the Forester. I think they will go a little lower, maybe invoice +$500. Unfortunately, they were several thousand too low on my trade in. I'll let it stew for a few days -- maybe they'll come up with more $$.

    thanks again,
    Craig
  • abhidharmaabhidharma Member Posts: 93
    Drew -- I agree 100% with your opinion on Xenon headlamps. I have them on my Acura TL (I believe Acura calls them HID, or High Intensity Discharge lamps, which I think are the same as Xenon?) They're great, illuminating a far wider and deeper swath than normal lamps.

    Randy
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    Yes, they are called HID or High Intensity Discharge lamps. Xenon is simply referring to the gas that the bulbs are filled with, and are part of the reason why the light output is so white and bright. Interestingly, Lexus has a HID Argon system on their LS400. I've no idea why they decided to go with Argon gas rather than Xenon gas. Seeing how they copy everything that BMW and or MB come out with, perhaps they decided to be different this time (not that it matters at all).

    It would be nice if Subaru offered them on their vehicles. After all, the dual bulb headlamp setup (one bulb for high beam and another for low beam) is already ideal for HID lights. The reason why high beams are typically not of the HID variety is because HID lights require a couple of minutes to warm up to full intensity. Usually, high beams are used only for short periods of time (ex. to use the flash to pass feature). The only car on the market that currently has Bi-Xenon headlamps (i.e. HID for both high and low beams) is the '01 MB CL500. As I understand, it uses a mechanical system that actually points the entire headlamp projectors upwards when the high beams are activated. Very snazzy!

    Drew
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    c_hunter: I live in Central Texas (very hot and moderately humid) and so far have found my Forester's AC very adequate. I do have tinted windows, which I think, given the considerable amount of glass in a Forester, probably helps.
    As for comfort, I haven't been on any long roadtrips, but on a couple of 4-hour drives I found my Forester comfy enough, though I'm still occasionally fiddling with my driver seat in search of the absolutely perfect seating position. (I find that I can't get the seat quite as upright as I'd like, but I gather I'm a little unusual in not preferring a Laz-Boy-like recline while driving.)

    bfishman: I got my cargo compartment cover from www.subaruparts.com (a Subaru dealership in Tacoma that cleverly branched out into the Internet parts biz) for just over $90, plus $9 or $10 shipping. More than $20 less than what my local dealerships were asking for it here.
  • nvynvy Member Posts: 74
    18 years @ Subaru is noteworthy. When I saw you
    drive into town on last Wed June 21, I could not
    trust my eyes. Question for today: Do you own a Subaru, and if so, which model/s did you choose? (If I may be so bold to ask), which models are
    owned by other higher-ups such as Doll and Adcock. Mr.Satio even. Which are their favorites.

    I've been following these post since last August after I drove home a new zero year Outback On 8/99. Stock#0Y004.

    I have many questions,however,whatever you can
    answer will be much welcomed.

    Later
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    What did I miss?! Apparently a whole lot! Errr...welcom patti.
    OK guys first off, be easy with the questions! I think you guys might scare her off with a whole slew of questions especially things like why is my CE light on? or there is a clunk when i brake. these type of questions should be directed to the delership than patti!
    OK having said that, i have no questions left except... Patti, there are other non Outback, Forester, Legacy owners out there too. They are the Impreza owners! if you can do pop by www.impreza-rs.com, there are close to 1500 registered members within this club.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Here's an interesting bit on the recent Subaru TV ad touting their safety rating of the Legacy.

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000623/bs/autos_subaru_dc_1.html

    Hang in there Subaru!

    Bob
  • 2ndwnd2ndwnd Member Posts: 145
    >>I was able to get the dealer down to about $700
    over invoice on the Forester. I think they will go a little lower, maybe invoice +$500.
    Unfortunately, they were several thousand too low
    on my trade in. I'll let it stew for a few days --
    maybe they'll come up with more $$.

    thanks again,
    Craig<<

    Craig, don't play that game with them! It's only to their advantage. Get a price on the Forester that you are happy with. Get it in writing. THEN talk about your trade in. If they are thousands away from what you want, I'd say you'd be much better off selling it on your own. I know it's nice to pick up your new car and leave the old one behind at the same time, but you lose $$ that way. Check the dealer/pricing topic for more info.
    Dave
  • 2ndwnd2ndwnd Member Posts: 145
    >>(I find that I can't get the seat quite as upright as I'd like, but I gather I'm a little unusual in not preferring a Laz-Boy-like recline while driving.)<<

    Tex, you're not alone. I like an upright position too. Fortunately in my Legacy, if I put the seat all the way up, it's just right. It seems to me if you're leaning back, you have to tilt your head forward to see properly, and that quickly begins to bother my neck. Don't know how people can drive like that.

    Dave
  • mcj13mcj13 Member Posts: 85
    though I've always thought it's because I'm shortish and figure taller people can get away with a more laid back seat.

    Mary
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Craig,

    I agree with Dave. Don't let the dealer try and 'combine' your trade in with your new car purchase. The two should be handled separately. In fact, if you can live with some extra hassle, you'll get a much better price for your Prelude by selling it yourself.

    As for the road feel of the Forester, sure it won't be as refined as a sports sedan, but it'll take you a lot more places than your Prelude. With AWD you'll be wanting it to rain, sleet or snow!
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    Got to take a real drive in my 3 1/2 day old Forester. A friend's brother is in a coma in Seattle as a result of a football injury (critical but stable) and needed a ride down from Vancouver. I needed to put some kms. on before going camping, sooo. Van-Seat-Van, 290 miles, 25.3 US mpg, cruise constantly varying from 60-75, 25 minutes crossing borders. Very similar mileage to what I got in my Golf when it was new. Total mileage is now 470 m (755 km.). Upright seating position? Me too! I actually would like 1 more notch up for more variety, but this was the first drive in years, of any real length, that had *no* adverse effect one my back! None!
    I am amazed at the controls layout. Less than 4 days and they all come to hand naturally - feels more comfortable/intuitive than the VW after 6 years.
    Noticed that Rufus drifted to the left, but only on the I-5, not on Hwy 99. Are American roads designed that way to compensate for your politics? (Sorry, couldn't resist - I'll try to behave in the future.)
    Got to practice emergency maneuvers on the I-5 near Seattle - I was impressed. Only one complaint - sore cheeks. (No, I mean the ones on my face - too much smiling while driving.) :-))

    Ross
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    My friend needed the ride, not her comatose brother. Must still be on a Forester high.

    Ross
  • spellboundspellbound Member Posts: 77
    Hello Patti,
    I hope you can pass along a complaint or suggestion to the appropriate people. I expect to be in the market for a new vehicle in the 1st qtr of 2001. I really like to get a wagon rather than a truck this time around and I like the Subaru product line.
    However I really want a six cylinder as I will be getting an automatic. I'm disappointed that the new six will be reserved for only the high $ Outback, LL Bean etc versions. I don't really want an Outback and would prefer the GT and if the H6 Subarus push the 30k area I feel you're getting out of your market segment as I would start looking at other alternatives. Any chance the H6 will be available in normal Legacy's earlier than 2002?

    One other complaint is that the GT must come with moonroof's. I wish manufacturers wouldn't force this on people and make it an option. I would much rather see the GT version as a sporty version with performance enhancements rather than forced luxury features. Sun & moonroof's usually subtract from headroom and are a source of noise, leaks etc. Let the buyer decide.

    Thank you,
    Scott
  • sjbrodysjbrody Member Posts: 39
    I have had my 2000 OB Limited for 9 months and 11,000 miles and I love it. My dealer just installed an auto dimming mirror with both a compass and thermometer (it is a Gentex, ? made by MITO--not a Donnelly) and it works very well.

    There are a few items that could be improved, in my opinion, without a significant increase in cost.

    1. Either change the location or recess the seat heater switches--they get hit and turned on accidentally too often

    2. Change the cruise control switch so that it will maintain its setting after the ignition switch is turned of--the same as the fog light switch.

    3. This is the only car I have seen were the passenger window control defeat switch does not allow the driver to raise and lower the passenger windows. I do not understand the logic of this.

    4. The rear wiper control really needs an intermittent setting.

    5. I little more clearance under the steering wheel would be welcome.

    Thanks.

    Spencer
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    The sunroof in my GT takes no head room away compared to that on my mother in laws sun roof less L. These are pre 2000 models though.
    I really don't think you need a 6 cylinder unless you like to burn Iraqi oil. The 4 has more than adequate power for acceleration and I frequently haul several hundred pounds of stuff in the back with minimal effect on the way the car drives.
    As for sun roof leaks, that seemed common on cars with sunroofs in the 70s but I haven't had problems since with many different makes.
    Problem Subaru has is that they have a small market, compared to the big manufacturers, and letting customers customize too much will probably not be cost effective.
  • eric_keric_k Member Posts: 4
    The sunroof in my RS was standard. I wish is was an option that I could have passed on.
    1. Its solid, not glass (you cant see thru metal).
    2. It adds somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 pounds to the most elevated position on the car.

    I totally agree that this should be an option, not standard, on all of the performance minded Subaru's (Legacy GT, Impreza RS/WRX). Sure, many people will want an automatic with a sunroof, but there are those of us who want the same car, minus the extra weight of the items not necessary in a performance car.

    If nothing else, please make sure that the new Turbo Impreza comes standard WITHOUT a sunroof. If you must add them, just do it to the automatics please. A pop up vent on the roof could even replace the AC in what will be my new Impreza Turbo come next year. And I would also like the bare bones window cranks, no power stuff. Im not kidding either, the lighter the better. And this would really not be that hard to do in the Impreza, they are all built in the same place, correct? And everything I have mentioned already exists for other Impreza's. It just depends on which parts bin they go to. It could be one of the top 5 performance cars sold in the US, at almost any price. It already is, well exept for that being sold in the US part.

    Eric
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I know this probably belongs in another thread, but I started here so I figured I'd add to it here. About negotiating a new car price and trade-in separately -- that used to be my tactic until I bought my last new car. The dealer kept coming back to me with monthly payment numbers, which I found highly annoying since the new car price was buried in there along with the trade-in and interest. But, if you know the interest rate formulas, it's very easy to convert the "total cost minus trade-in" into a monthly payment or vice versa.

    This time around, I figured I'd start off with the monthly payment tactic at the Subaru dealer. I figured what I wanted to pay for the Forester, what I expected for my trade-in, added taxes, tags, etc., and then converted it into a monthly payment amount (with some room for negotiation).

    It was interesting to use this tactic from the consumer side, and it definitely put the dealer into a much more businesslike posture -- it was as if they "knew I knew", and it simplified negotiations quite a bit (we cut out a lot of baloney). When it comes down to it, I don't care what the exact new car price and trade-in value is, as long as they meet my overall numbers (which I know represent a good deal for me in both regards).

    When the dealer's monthly price was too high, we dissected things a bit and started haggling over the trade-in. So, dealing with the monthly payment added an extra step in the end, but I think it really helped put things into the right perspective to begin with. Even just learning the ins and outs of interest rate calculations in the context of a new car purchase proved beneficial to me.

    I would definitely be better off selling my Prelude on my own, but the dealer was still thousands below what a fair trade-in value would be (based on Kelly's Blue Book at www.kbb.com). If they can make me a fair offer, I'd rather trade-in -- it's just a lot more convenient for me. If they can't make a fair offer, then I will strike out on my own, but unfortunately, this will delay my Forester purchase by a few weeks. The dealer is aware of this, and I think it might help us converge on a deal. Again, I'm not looking for miracles -- I just want them to make a fair offer on my trade-in.

    Craig
  • deadboltdeadbolt Member Posts: 6
    Patti, I am glad to see that someone from SOA has an interest in these types of bulletin boards. I have frequented several boards dedicated to the older cars when I had my 82,84, and 87's, and recently joined the North American Impreza Owners Club when I get my '00 RS. Most of the people that I have talked to at SOA don't know about a lot of the owner's clubs, etc. out there. It is refreshing to find someone that actually knows about, and participates in such activities. I work for a Subaru dealership in the Southeast (district 5) and I have found that being a Subaru loyalist, as well as participating in many of the owners clubs and forums has helped me to get a much broader information base when it comes to how other dealerships handle (and in some cases mis-handle) their customers. If you ever are in the Southeast region, feel free to look my dealership up and visit us! (Just ask the Mr. Brock, the DM for the area who his #1 dealer is and he will let you know how to find us.) :)
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    6/24/00 8:53 am, Badlands. It's raining, appropriately it seems tome, in this massive demonstration of the power of erosion. I can see the place change right before my eyes, watch its soft multi-hued earth wash away under my feet. The vistas are limited somewhat by clouds but this is offset by the increased vibrance of the colors. Walked the Cliff Shelf Trail, where I was priveleged to make the acquaintance of a mountain bluebird as it huddled in a cedar tree. (Not that I'm a birder mind you. I was accosted by a pair of them though at the visitor's center after they overheard my conversation with a ranger, and among the four of us we determined exactly which blue bird I had seen. Looked just like the picture too.)

    6/25/00 5:21 am, Buffalo WY. My body is still on Eastern Time. When I step out the door I can see the Bighorn Mountains. Yesterday was what I'll call The Whirlwind Tour of the Black Hills region; strap on your seatbelts and I'll tell you about it.

    As I drove further through the aforementioned Badlands National Park the skies parted and the sun shone through. I was therefore treated to seeing the place in full daylight as well as under clouds and rain. This is significant because the colors change under different circumstances. It never failed to be breathtaking however. At first I thought the sun was going to be shortlived but it turned out to be the beginning of the end of the rain, and by the end of the day I was driving under a cloudless sky.

    After the Badlands it was back to I-90 and another dose of South Dakota's less exciting terrain mixed with Clancy's _Executive_Decision_.. At milepost 86 I crested a rise and saw a silhouette on the horizon: The Black Hills. Good heavens, they call those hills? They're huge! I stopped at a visitor's center just outside Rapid City, very fortuitously as it turned out as I was served by a wonderful and very knowledgeable lady. With her orange highlighter and a map she guided me around the local detours, suggested routes thrhough the Black Hills, recommended how much time to allow at the various sights, then went on to show me which little grey lines on the map to follow once I reached the Tetons, which she and her husband had visited many times. I thanked her profusely, grabbed a ham sandwich at a quickie mart, and headed into the Hills.

    First stop Mount Rushmore. Maybe it was all the hype and attention the place gets, but when I pulled up to the entrance, looked up and saw the sculptured granite, then looked back down at the $8 parking fee (the free parking lot was "full"), I turned back out onto the road and headed past. About 1/4 mile down there was a small parking area along the road from which one could see George Washington in profile. I stopped and snapped off a shot just for so, and began walking back up the road to get a picture from headon (pun?). However about halfway there I noticed a mountain goat grazing against the rocky hillside not 50 feet away. Click, click. Good enough! On to Crazy Horse. The road between the sculptures winds through the Hills and provided a beautiful drive in more ways than one. Finally the Subaru got a chance to romp around some turns, which it did with vigor.

    Crazy Horse. "My land is the land where my ancestors are buried." You can park for free out on the road and see the sculpture-in-progress from a distance, or you can pay a fee and go in. I went in. I have long been fascinated by this work, its devotees, and the philosophy behind what they do. What I did not know, could not have known, until I stood there and breathed the place in, was that there is another, very powerful component. There is are spirits here, strong spirits, hard at work. There are the spirits of the native Americans, who commisioned the sculpture, whose ancestors are buried here, and to whom the Black Hills are sacred. There is the can-do, independent, don't-tread-on-me spirit of the American settlers, evident in the family of the man who gave his spirit to them and to this place, as well as in the philosophy that drives it. They accept no government funding. They privately own the land on which they work. They labor to show us that native Americans have heroes too. There is the spirit of Crazy Horse, slowly being released from the mountain. (Seeing the work in progress is somehow more energizing than seeing a finished sculpture. Also, perhaps it is just me or the nature of large stone sculputures, but Crazy Horse in profile looks remarkably similar to Mr. Washington.) Finally there are the spirits of the Hills themselves, in the air and trees and the creatures and the granite itself. All of these spirits swirl around and around and one cannot help but feel their presence. I spent a long time at Crazy Horse.

    To be continued,
    Dave

    ..Mike

  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    The drive out of the Hills was pure pleasure. I latched onto a pair of motorcyclists who obviously knew the road and their bikes; they were led by a big pickup truck with duallies that obviously knew the roads too. Down and around we went, smooth and fast, like some strange etherally connected train. Near the bottom of the mountain they all turned off onto a small side road. Ah-ha, local folk. Lucky ducks.

    I decided to dash over to Devil's Tower. The drive was about 60 miles, all on two-lane highway. My speedometer spent most of the time pointed at the same numbers it did on I-90, which should tell you something about the roads. Once again I decided to take a pass on paying the entrance fee, and only spent a short time outside the entrance, soaking it in. It's a big big rock that sticks up out of the prairie. You can see it from 50 miles away. Space aliens did not put it there. Click, let's go. Somewhere along the way I crossed into Wyoming.

    I backtracked to I-90 and set my sights on Gillette. It reminded of Murdo, and the day had a good bit of light left in it, so I kept going. Rolling hills got bigger. I crested yet another bluff and saw the Bighorns in the distance. (Now I see how they can get away with calling the Black Hills hills.) On the long downhill into Buffalo I gave the Subaru its head. They tell me the car has an electronically limited top speed; I did not find it and I had the speedometer needle buried past 120.

    Today will be mountains and little grey roads and the Continental Divide. Hopefully tomorrow I will be able to coerce a Subaru dealer to perform a 7500 mile service on my trusty, laden steed.

    Total miles: 1996
    Mileage: no change
    Gas prices: dropping
    Lessons: taking in these sights from east to west gives one a chance to go "ah, ahhh, Ahhh, AHHH" as they are encountered--each is in general more spectacular than the last, quiet air conditioners in motel rooms are Good Things, Fat Tire Amber tastes better the closer you get to Colorado.

    From the road,
    Dave.

    ..Mike

  • 2ndwnd2ndwnd Member Posts: 145
    >>So, dealing with the monthly payment
    added an extra step in the end, but I think it
    really helped put things into the right perspective to begin with.<<

    Whatever makes you happy. Fewer people like to go about it that way these days, and most dealers are willing to start dealing from invoice price upfront. The way I look at it is, if the price is good, the payments will be too. It's that simple.

    Dave
  • torektorek Member Posts: 92
    WDB is about to hit the real mountains. :-)

    Too bad we can't send stuff to him,

    Chris
  • amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    The top speed of '00 models aren't limited directly so to speak (ie. it's not a fixed, say 130 mph).

    It's limited because of the rev-limiter that cuts the fuel injection to the engine once you're past redline. Still, 120 mph is *plenty* fast for me! (~180 km/h). How close was that to redline?

    -- ash
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    power windows: The weight of power windows v. cranks is 0 lbs. There is no difference in weight on them, so there is no point in getting crank windows over power ones.

    top speed: The speed limiters on US spec cars (not only SOAs) are based on the rubber that comes on the car standard. Whatever the rating of the tires is what the speed limiter is at, unless it's an suv which is limited at 112. That is why the impreza RS has no limiter, and the GT as well, but the other all have limiters. They also have rev limiters so you don't blow up the engine @ redline.

    Cargo Cover: Yes it costs the dealer more to put in options @ the dealership as opposed to PIO. I just ordered a trooper from a close friend and I forgot to tell him to add the trailer hitch @ the factory and it would be $325 at the dealer (befor i took delivery)

    GT power: Whoever said the GT has plenty of power, obviously never packed it with 5 guys, camping gear for a weekend and a 2000lb trailer. I test drove a GT with 5 guys in it, and it couldn't get out of it's own way. That's why I went with the trooper. Had the H6 been out I may have gone for that, but the GT wagon w/leather was going to cost me $25000, if you add the H6, that would be bumped at least $2K, to 27000, I got my trooper for $27500, so the subaru price-point is a bit off.

    -mike

    -mike
  • 2ndwnd2ndwnd Member Posts: 145
    >>GT power: Whoever said the GT has plenty of power, obviously never packed it with 5 guys, camping gear for a weekend and a 2000lb trailer. <<

    You wanted to load up all that stuff and not only move it, but have it go like a race car too? I don't think anyone here is shocked that you were disappointed. If someone said the GT had plenty of power, then it had plenty of power for their purposes, not yours.

    Dave
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Beth: get a quote from Darlene before buying that cargo carrier. She even ships it for free. Installation is so easy it's an insult that the dealer charges you anything at all. It just snaps in!

    Drew: you have a URL for the long-term Forester Motorweek had? They only show the new review. Also, the Dynastar Forester sounds interesting. I wonder if it had the S model's rear LSD, given the snow intentions!

    Eric: bummer, I'm out of town this weekend and next for a beach road trip (guess I'm not too bummed). Please keep us posted, though. I suggest you post something before each race in the Events topic. I'd love to check it out some time.

    ramon: sorry, bud, Patti's ours ;) She couldn't keep up w/i Club's hundreds of posts anyway.

    Bob: I had mentioned that IIHS results ad earlier in another topic. It's pretty bold, but it does show there are still some independent thinkers at SoA. Way to go.

    Mike: thanks for sharing the WDB road trips files. Thought you'd be at the beach by now?

    -juice
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Hi Drew! I know that they talked about them for awhile, but I'm not sure where they stand with them. It seems that some people love them, while other's have been complaining to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration about them. The last I heard, NHTSA was opening an investigation on these lamps as "other" driver's complain about their intensity and the impact on them during night driving. We will probably wait until the outcome of that investigation prior to putting them in our vehicle. Personally? I like'em!!
  • gtdrivergtdriver Member Posts: 67
    As a first-time-reader of this thread, your name seemed familiar to me. Turns out you were VERY helpful to me a few years back when I bought my '97 GT. I had a bit of a dispute over whether my car was eligible for the Subaru Mastercard points that I had accumulated by the time I bought the car in early '98 (it apparently had been driven by a T. Pollett of SOA and it was an untitled car with 8,000 miles my dealer bought at auction). You made sure I received the $293 I had accumulated from Nov. '97- March '98, despite the uncertainty of whether my purchase was eligible. I believe I was one of the first people to sign up for the card, and possibly THE first to cash in points on a car. You also straightened out some weird glitch that prevented me from getting my much-enjoyed Drive Magazine. Like many others, I am glad to see SOA participating and listening to their customers.
    I became a Subaru loyalist upon the purchase of a '92 Legacy. My wife and I were on a budget and appreciated that Subaru let an L buyer add airbag and ABS as options. Even though those options added $2,200 to the sticker, the car came in $ thousands less than the high-end Accord, Maxima, and Camry that consumers were forced to buy to get ABS. Now, I agree with Scott (above): I didn't like when the LSi was discontinued because now too many non-enthusiastic (nice way of putting it) Legacy buyers are driving GT's because they wanted more options and didn't want an OB (there's nothing sadder than seeing a GT from a distance only to get close and find it being driven by somebody's Aunt Gladys). Now that the OB is a separate entity from the Legacy (at least from a marketing perspective), there should be a "cheapie" model (Brighton), "common" model (L), "luxury" model (LS, LSi, or whatever) and the "performance/sport" model, which should emphasize performance aspects (H6 engine, suspension, wheels, tires, seats) at an "affordable" price, with the luxury stuff (i.e. sunroof)as options, not standard. I noticed my '97 parked outside the showroom while sweating over the price of the new '98 I had come to buy in March, '98. The savings on the 10-month-used car was too great to pass-up.
    I also think that a safety feature such as side airbags should be available to all trim-level buyers, even if it's an expensive option. It seems odd that a new GT buyer has to get a cattle-skin interior (Limited) to get a safer car. I prefer cloth and would pay a lot for that option.
    My last comment is that I'm amazed that the first Legacy to get the 6-cylinder engine is the model with the most ponderous handling, and not the GT. I know it will be in the GT by the time I'm ready for what will be my fourth Legacy in 2-3 years, but if I needed a car next year, I'd be very disappointed.
    Thanks for your help in the past and thanks for listening to some of us nuts.
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    GT power: Whoever said the GT has plenty of
    power, obviously never packed it with 5 guys,
    camping gear for a weekend and a 2000lb trailer. Mike (paisan)


    You wanted to load up all that stuff and not only move it, but have it go like a race car too? I don't think anyone here is shocked that you were disappointed. If someone said the GT had plenty of power, then it had plenty of power for their purposes, not yours. Dave (2ndwnd)

    True, true. Power definitely is a matter of personal taste (just like the gold accents on the OB Ltd, and I'm not revealing my opinion of them ;) Same with colors and cloth/leather seats. It's good to hear from Mike (and others) that don't find the power adequate, as it brings it too the attention to those evaluating a Sube and who might of otherwise not paid attention to it. No one wants to make an expensive purchase, only to be disappointed with something they overlooked (though caveat emptor). Definitely makes for sour grapes.

    IMO the 00 GT wagon power (w/5MT) is more than adequate, but then again I'm close to sea level and haul light loads (2 adults + 2 young children). It's funny, because my wife and I even called our 91 L "der sportsvagen" because we thought it had a lot of get up and go. The 00 has a surprising amount of low-end torque for a small engine (2.5l H-4) on a portly (3,440lbs) wagon.

    Mike, you drove an automatic, yes? Going up a hill, I didn't care for the lurch when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd (in an OB wagon), but I know others that don't mind this. I recently test drove a Passat 4Motion sedan (V6 so not a true comparison); by comparison, it downshift very smoothly.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • peterson10peterson10 Member Posts: 116
    After six months I finally got around to installing the rear gate bar on my '00 Outback and have a few complaints/comments/questions.

    Firstly, the template provided is inaccurate. If you drill where the template indicates, your holes will be 3/8 of an inch further appart than they should be (28" on center to be precise). Its also worth noting that the illustrations provided depict the pre-2000 model. BTW, I did check the parts number before I started and, yes, this is the proper part for the 2000 MY.

    Secondly, The inside of the rear hatch (with trim removed) has no openings to assist in installing this part. I had to weasle my arm into the nearest cut-out and do my best not to swear up a storm in front of my daughter. After alot of fumbling, I did manage to attach the washers and nuts as instructed.

    Finally, in the light of day I can see that the rear hatch's sheet metal is slightly distorted where the bar attaches. Obviously, this is because the angle of the bar and the hatch are not identical. Its not (at the moment) hideously obvious, but its clearly not right and I intend to find a remedy.

    Now some questions: Has anyone else installed the rear gate bar themselves? Has anyone with "the bar" taken a close look at the rear hatch and noticed the aforementioned distortion (it should be most obvious on darker cars; mine, fortunately, is white)?

    Despite the problems, the gate bar is an incredible convenience and I'm not sorry I have one (I just wish it was designed better).

    Thanks all,
    yet another Dave
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    You're welcome. I thought someone would appreciate them and looks like a few did. Heading to OBX (Outer Banks, NC) this Sunday (w/your Samsonite roof cargo carrier -- thanks!), so no posts from me from 2-9 July (I'm not as dedicated as WDB). There should only be 5-600 posts to wade through when I return.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    GTDriver: imagine how I LOL when I read "Aunt Gladys". I HAVE an aunt Gladys! She drivers my cousin's '99 Outback when she's in town, too!

    What I think would be best is to offer limited edition stripped models for those that race. The thing is, most people do want the moonroof and power windows and such, so from SoA's point of view I can understand why such features are made standard in premium models.

    So how about a few hundred "Rally Sport" models, similar to the RS America 911 models Porsche sold. Delete the moonroof, power windows, locks, mirrors, A/C, stereo, and anything else that adds weight that isn't totally necessary. Like the back seat.

    You could even do as Ford did with the Cobra R and only sell it to folks with SCCA licenses. I'm serious, BTW.

    Ross: send me photos of the new Soob for my site? If you get it to me soon, I'll have a new page up today.

    120mph? 32.7mpg? Way to go, WDB.

    Anyone else see Autoweek's Autofile on the Legacy GT? Their 5 speed reached 60 in 8.7 seconds, and managed over 22mpg while in their enthusiast hands. They criticized the brake feel and asked for more power, but they did say the handling felt "BMW-ish". Pretty sweet.

    Nice to hear Patti's history. Sounds like we got the right person :)

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mike: I'll be gone from July 1 to 6 also, so it'll probably be more like 2-300 posts!

    :o)

    -juice
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Sorry, I was really busy this weekend, Lucien! Here is a copy of the press release!

    SUBARU INTRODUCES 'SPT' PERFORMANCE PARTS LINE
    -- New Subaru Performance Tuning Line Designed for Enthusiasts --

    CHERRY HILL, N.J., June 21, 2000 -- Subaru of America, Inc. (SOA), a pioneer of crossover all-wheel drive vehicles designed for the active lifestyle, has developed an exciting line of Subaru Performance Tuning (SPT) parts and accessories for Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS owners and enthusiasts. The new additions to the line of Genuine Subaru Performance Parts are currently available from authorized Subaru dealers and are featured in an updated Impreza 2.5 RS Performance Parts brochure (MA6M0013) as well as at www.subaru.com.

    Engineered to enhance the performance and look of Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS models, the new SPT offerings enable owners to personalize their vehicles with quality parts developed specifically for Subaru vehicles. Subaru Performance Tuning parts are designed to enhance driving pleasure without sacrificing quality and reliability. The SPT menu includes an STi-developed short-throw shifter for crisper gear changes, an STi carbon fiber strut tower brace for additional stiffness and quicker steering response, a performance muffler and intermediate pipe for a throaty exhaust note, and more.

    "Impreza 2.5 RS has a distinguished, rally-winning pedigree. Import enthusiasts recognize Impreza 2.5 RS as an agile performance car with the confidence-inspiring benefit of all-wheel drive," says Subaru Parts & Accessories Marketing Manager, Bruce Barker. "Now enthusiasts can enhance the performance, handling and looks of their Impreza 2.5 RS with quality parts engineered specifically for their vehicles."

    - more -

    Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS combines rival-beating power and versatility with a feature simply unavailable from any other car in its class -- all-wheel drive. Available in either coupe or sedan offerings, the 2.5 RS models deliver a powerful punch from a 2.5-liter, 165-horsepower engine to take on the Acura Integra GS-R and Honda Civic Si. Additionally, Impreza 2.5 RS was selected as one of Sport Compact Car magazine's "Eight Great Rides" for 1998, 1999 and 2000.

    The comprehensive line of SPT performance parts includes:

     Carbon Fiber Strut Tower Brace  Carbon Fiber Shift Knob/Brake Handle
     Steel Strut Tower Brace  Carbon Fiber Center Panel Trim Kit
     Performance Gauge Package  Front End Cover
     Performance Muffler and Intermediate Pipe  Leather Seats
     Short-Throw Shifter  SPT Decals
     Rear Differential Protector  Impreza 2.5 RS Carpeted Floor Covers
     Machined Titanium Shift Knob

    Subaru will expand the current line of SPT offerings in the very near future.


    About Subaru of America, Inc.

    Subaru of America, Inc. is a wholly owned subsidiary of Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. of Japan. Headquartered near Philadelphia, the company markets and distributes Subaru vehicles, parts and accessories through a network of 590 franchised dealers across the United States. All Legacy and Outback models sold in the U.S are produced at the company&#146;s American manufacturing plant, Subaru-Isuzu Automotive, Inc., near Lafayette, Ind.

    Over the past eight years, the company has nearly tripled its revenues and seen its sales increase by nearly 100 percent thanks to its popular line of car-based sport utility vehicles. The company is among the fastest growing brands in the automobile industry and was recently named &#147;Most Improved Car Company in the World&#148; by the London-based Financial Times Automotive World Magazine.
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Patti-

    Thanks. Actually, someone posted the URL to that release on the SoA site over the weekend. I do hope us Legacy owners aren't forgotten by SPT.

    Juice-

    Did you notice how many Gt owners in the second half of that article grumbled for the H6? I get the sense SoA is going to be in a funny spot for MY '01 and '02. Market forces dictate that the Outback should be the focus (even though I have one, I kind of wish for a GT wagon). Volvo's XC is one example of the competition, but even Audi is redirecting its energies out of the Avant series and into the allroad. On the other hand, there is a growing demand for sportwagons, which Saab and BMW have certainly nosticed, although only BMW is talking openly about making a 323ix wagon available here, which would join the Avant as the two main awd sport wagon offerings. Here is where an H6 GT Wagon could really compete, since VW has decided not to offer 5 speeds on the 4Motion Passat. But the big sales numbers will continue to be in the psuedo-V segment. Drat.

    On an unrelated note, I traded off my brother's '91 Celica GT4 in Grand Tourismo and used the credits to pick up a Legacy GT wagon with the 2.0 litre turbo. Unfortunately, I am getting cooked in every race I enter, since it qualifies as a class "A" ('vette, Skyline GT-R etc), but really doesn't have the shovel to keep up. I am stunned that the video game version of this car has a big step up from 1st to 2nd, just like the real thing. Waiting for the revs to fall back enough for the synchros to catch is like an eternity (both on the screen and on the street, at leaston my OB) 'kay, I'll reserve future Vid game talk for the RS board.
  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    Just picked up a new wintergreen Outback Saturday to replace an older Outback. In addition, my wife also has a 2000 Outback.

    Question about the seat warmers -- in neither the one I bought, nor a Limited I test-drove did the seat warmers feel like they were getting warm at all. My wife reports that in her 2K Outback they do indeed get hot even in hot weather, that they are warm to the touch.

    Does Subaru leave out the seat-warmer fuse until you buy the car? Is there another explanation? Or do I just need to get it fixed.

    This is my 3rd Subaru, the fifth for my wife and I, and as usual, we love it. I'm nearly 6'4" and it has all the head room and leg room I want -- something I cannot say for my Acura 3.2 TL, or a recently departed BMW 528i. Also, it is a whole lot quieter and smoother than its predecessor. Both by the way are 5-speeds -- so no problems with acceleration.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Beth: Darlene got back to me, and sure enough her price beats subaruparts.com. It's $92.78 delivered for the Forester's cargo cover, $97.45 for the Outback while we're at it.

    Lucien: that was me :)

    I think the H6 in the Outback is a good thing, given it's an alternative for husky SUVs with bigger engines. Paisan may not have bought that Trooper, for example.

    The GT could use the turbo motor, though, given its mission. Or the H6. Or, hey, how about both?

    Alan: nice to hear from a repeat customer. Sounds like the dealer ought to take a look at the bun warmers. At least yours has them ;)

    -juice
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    I'll be gone from July 1 to 6 also, so
    it'll probably be more like 2-300 posts
    LOL -- Took me a second, but I figured it out. Dude, we've said it before but you know we think your posts are the best -- informative, timely (need to talk to your boss about this ;), and polite (and more on-topic than, ahem, mine).

    Ack! The forum will be Crew Chief-less! Something tells me Sube-dom shall march onward. Guess we'll leave Bonnie and Patti in charge. Hmm juice, I don't recall seeing Bonnie's approval of your vacation (oops, or mine either).

    ..Mike

This discussion has been closed.