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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    My guess is Forester first. I basically agree with Bob's predicted time table.

    Remember, the Impreza platform is already ready, while the ST-X is awaiting a new engine.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    The new plant that will make the ST-X engines won't even be finished until 1st qtr '02. Wonder if that will have anything to do with it.
    I say late spring/early summer 02 for the Forester and late summer for the STX. Where do we place our bets? :)
    Dennis
  • armac13armac13 Posts: 1,129
    what is your reasoning behind your prediction?

    Ross
  • kate5000kate5000 Posts: 1,267
    a) no concepts, no sketches, no pix, not even a clue of how new 2003 Forester will look
    b) Patti just recently was collecting our wishlists for 2003 which seems too late for a vehicle scheduled to appear in Q1 of 2002.
    c) similarity with Loyale's replacement: although official statements had it that 1993 is the last year of Loyale's production, wagon 4WD version dragged into 1994, and only after that they started retooling for the Forester which appeared in 1997.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    SoA got smacked with the WRX launch. Their site was famous for being hacked by i Clubbers, and info leaked out all over the place. So now they are being more careful. Plus, the Forester sells well but doesn't get attention like a WRX does.

    Patti may not even know about the next Forester. The home market may be keeping what they know under wraps. She's doing her job (and well) in continously gathering feedback, plus that could affect some of the packaging of options.

    Finally, there has been a pattern of early intros, from the 2001 Forester (remember we thought it might be a 2000.5?) and the 2002 Impreza.

    That's my reasoning, FWIW. My guess is we'll see spy pix in the summer, taken in Japan.

    -juice
  • FrankMcFrankMc Posts: 228
    vehicle introductions, they had examples of the AWD Aztec being introduced without AWD availability etc. I think Subaru had a pretty good launch of the WRX, they leaked enough details to keep interest up, but not too soon that the car was "old news" when it showed up. I think that they know what they are doing on this.

    Ford also got bashed on its Explorer launch (no V8's to start) and the highly touted Ford Thunderbird launch (that is delayed again... old news?)

    Frank
  • kate5000kate5000 Posts: 1,267
    I think spy pix of new WRX showed up waay before iclubbers invaded SoA site...
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    My guess is the Forester first too.

    The ST-X was supposed to get a supercharged EJ25, but Rimmer went out of business (I think). Although we've seen concept vehicles, SOA is facing a major contingency in a new product's development. If I were them, I'd get it right before bringing it to market. There's probably more risk to market share by botching the intro vs. delaying it some.

    On the other hand, the Forester is a proven seller. Despite the face lift, it's becoming a bit dated in light of the competition. Here, schedule is probably more crucial.

    In regards to the WRX, the i-clubbers did know well in advance what the new model looked like, but there was some question as if the US model was going to be the same -- that whole debated about the headlights being different. My point being there was some value into securing the New Impreza webpage. :)

    Ken
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    Rick Rimmer had nothing to do with the STX's supercharged EJ25. It was a one-off piece done by a tuner based in the Detroit area, I can't recall their name. (It is probably in one of the original ST-X releases.)

    I've heard--no fact, just rumor--that the engine did not run well but obviously that would be resolved for a production car. GM has plenty of supercharging experience. ;)

    -Colin
  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    Was was built by Specialized Vehicles Inc. using an Eaton supercharger.
    When it was making the auto show rounds, an i-clubber posted pictures pushing the ST-X onto the truck because it wouldn't start.
    Yep, time to dig into GM's deep pockets.
    Dennis
  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    I love the UBB's search function. Found pictures of the stalled ST-X from June 2000. http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20010122-1-009459.html
    Dennis
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    You da man, Dennis. Anyway, I think the ST-X will arrive first because GM really wants to sell their version of it-- hmm, wonder what brand it will be? You would think Chevy or GMC, gawd I hope not Pontiac. Can you imagine it sitting next to an Aztek in a showroom floor? Or in the same TV commercial? Oh the shame...

    -Colin
  • nygregnygreg Posts: 1,936
    that SOA does not want to dilute the excitement of the WRX launch with 2003 Forester leaks? Also, this would have an impact on current Forester sales. My dealer told me the busiest time of the year is May - June for them.

    -Greg
  • nygregnygreg Posts: 1,936
    Saw my first As(z)tek on Sunday. My daughters thought it looked funny. I warned them not to look too long at it.

    -Greg
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Ah, thanks for the correction, Colin. Wasn't sure which company was doing the supercharging.

    Ken
  • kostamojen2kostamojen2 Posts: 284
    LOL! You guys have no idea what your talking about...

    The SOA site WAS NOT hacked! They had the web site sitting there, just no link from it on the main page. The actual main page is www.imprezawrx.com, and the site that had all the info was www.imprezawrx.com/wrx.html an IDIOT could type that in by accident and find it! Thats all that happened, LOL!

    And as for pics... You guys DO know that the impreza redesign showed up 6 months earlier in Japan, and a few months earlier in europe and elsewhere. But, NO ONE had any EXACT specs on the WRX until the articles were released and anouncements from SOA were made... They were VERY good on keeping the specs under-wrap. The ONLY pics anyone had to go on were some "Area 51" pics over on new-impreza.com... Which didnt show much at all.

    Subaru had VERY good security before the Japanese release, when the model actually appeared for the first time... The specs for the US and Euro models were kept under wrap VERY well. They didnt have any major problems what so ever, Period.
  • pattim3pattim3 Posts: 533
    Sorry - I've been missing this board somehow. Juice is right (and thanks for the nice comment). They really keep stuff away from us for fear of leaks. Sometimes, I get better information looking for "spy pics" myself.

    I do know one thing - there have been 8 changes accepted by FHI that were included in the request you folks sent to me. I just don't know which 8. Most of them were related to engineering or aesthetic items, but I did not get much info. on exterior design. I'll try snooping - -

    Patti
  • francophilefrancophile Posts: 667
    I agree that it wasn't hacked. IIRC there were even SoA folks posting "hey, check out our wrx website, let us know what you think before it goes live" messages.

    I may be cynical but I wouldn't be surprised if the "hack" story was, umm, invented[1]. It did get them some extra press. All in all I think the WRX debut was very handsomely handled, especially for a car that was available overseas before we got it here.

    Cheers,
    -wdb

    [1] Not that there's anything wrong with a bit of creative marketing ;-)
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    We had pics of the cars Weeks before hand from dealers in FLA of the WRX. Also pics of the cars @ the port as well. Am I the only one who remembers that. I agree the site wasn't hacked, and they did keep things well under wraps, but I agree with Kate that we should see some Forester spy pics (like the ones we saw of the WRX about a year ago (although they didn't show much) by now.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yes, Kate, but that's because it was being sold in Japan. The US-spec ones were photographed pretty close to launch, basically on ships heading over here.

    And I don't think the round headlights were seen at this time last year, so the Forester could still be on schedule.

    Definitely still need to sort out the ST-X, but I thought they were switching to a turbo?

    Didn't a few people actually order WRXs from the site before the official launch? It seemed like more than just an early visit to a web site.

    Any how, any press is good press. Subaru is so small (1% of the total auto/truck market) that if so, the idea was genius.

    Wow, EIGHT changes? Sweet! Talk about influence! What 8 changes would you like to see on the Forester? Here's my list:

    * 5 speed auto
    * 2.5l light pressure turbo engine
    * rear multi-link suspension
    * 2" wheelbase stretch
    * VDC option
    * more ground clearance
    * better towing capacities
    * "juice gets one free" program ;-)

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    Make that "5-speed auto with "Sport-shift" available on all Subaru's." :-)
    Dennis
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,710
    Wow, that's great. See... we do have some influence. SUPER :)

    My bet is that the changes are "detail-oriented." The design is too far along at this point to assume any of those changes are of a "major" nature.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,710
    just had a blurb on the new STX. They said Subaru is seriously considering reviving the "BRAT" name tag for this vehicle, and that it will have the 3.0 H-6.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    look for the 3.0 H6 to pop up in the Forester too!

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,710
    ... aka, reading between the lines.

    The following link talks about the possibility of some of GM's recent concepts making it into production. Regarding the Chevy Borrego, they said:

    It had strong appeal among the youth, but in using the Subaru engine and AWD, there were "serious" economic" issues that had to be addressed first. The target price they're hoping for is $17K.

    Well you know what that means... nothing good, that's for sure. More reason to suspect that the GM/Subaru venture isn't going to be all that it was hyped up to be.

    Word to the wise: Subaru, step very carefully...

    http://www.auto.com/industry/gmconc2_20010502.htm

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I agree with Bob that the 8 changes will be minor, but one can hope! And yes, Dennis, with manual controls for the auto.

    I like the name BRAT. But didn't the acronym have a "Bi" in it for the dual range tranny? Hmm, does that mean the dual range will see production?

    The 3.0l gets 20/27mpg, and that may be why they chose to go with it. The automatic WRX gets less mileage (19/something I forget), and the CAFE numbers were already borderline. A turbo 2.5l would be lower still.

    A Borrego for $17k would have to go through some pretty severe cost cutting. The result would be another Aztec fiasco. GM better watch their step. They'd be better off making it a variation of the Pontiac Vibe at that price level.

    -juice
  • barresa62barresa62 Posts: 1,379
    Manual tranny: 20 city, 27 hwy

    Auto tranny: 19 city, 26 hwy

    Stephen
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    There's no way they can market a $17k AWD truck. The 4WD S10 starts at $19k and can be optioned solidly in the 20s.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    $30k is more like it. Seriously - price out a crew cab 4x4 V6 with the same basic options a Forester S has, and you'll see what I mean.

    You think they'll offer a FWD version? It wouldn't make sense to me.

    -juice
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