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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,672
    Hi Charlie. I'm going to be there for the first press day, the 31st. Also going to a Subie sneak-preview that evening. :)

    Bob
  • css1css1 Posts: 247
    Sorry we can't hook up this year.

    Bob,
    Once again my Tribeca lease ends in November/December 2010. I'd appreciate it if you can find out any information on the refreshening or replacement for the Tribeca. I want to avoid getting stuck in a lease only to find something new is released in spring '11.

    Have a great time.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,672
    I'll see what I can find out Charlie. I don't think there will be an announcement of that model, although I could be wrong. I think the news at NY this year will be about the WRX and STI.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,672
    edited March 2010
    The wing is back—big time!

    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/29/the-wing-returns-subaru-teases-impreza-wrx-st- - i-sedan-ahead-of-n/

    Will see this Wednesday night at an SOA sneak-peak event. The car will be officially announced Thursday morning.

    So the NY show is all about the wide-body 2011 WRX and this new 2011 STI sedan.

    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,464
    According to your link, the "teaser" picture is a hatchback, not a sedan.

    But judging by this solitary teaser of the 2011 Subaru Impreza WRX STI, it appears that the rally-bred hatch is getting an all-new wing inspired by Subaru's dearly-departed WRC contender.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,672
    I think AutoBlog is wrong.

    Bob
  • tifightertifighter WAPosts: 1,378
    I'm with autoblog on this one. Looking at the taper of the roof to rear glass in that photo, its looks clear to me that its the hatch. A sedan could be in the works, though.

    15 Leaf / 08 RDX

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,499
    I agree that it doesn't look so much like a sedan to me, but then the current Impreza has a fairly sloped back end and short trunk lid, so it could very well be a sedan. The massive wing certainly hides a lot of the shape back there and the slope from the roof line drops off much sooner than the current hatch.

    That said, the hatch is definitely the better body style and a wing of that size is pure silliness. However, there are fans of both and I think Subaru can keep the sales up and people talking by mixing things up from time to time ("let's give them a hatch for a couple of years then a sedan for the next few!"). :shades:
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,672
    edited March 2010
    They just announced a wide-body WRX sedan for 2011. I'm sure there's an STI version as well.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/22/new-york-preview-subaru-wrx-goes-widebody-for- -2011/

    They wouldn't spend all that money, time and effort for just the WRX.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Hopefully you can get it without the ironing board. ;)
  • exit123exit123 Posts: 136
    Does anyone have any info on the 2011 Impreza colors?
  • exit123exit123 Posts: 136
    Anyone have the info on changes for the 2011 Impreza??
  • exit123exit123 Posts: 136
    Yeah, that's what I thought, but it never hurts to ask.
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    edited April 2010
    To be quite honest, I am sorely disappointed by the 2011 STI....of course for people who were waiting for an STI Sedan, it is great news, since finally the new generation STI appears as a sedan. But as far as the hatch is concerned, I am left with an empty feeling. :sick:

    After the WRX went "wide body", it liberated the designers to introduce some much needed updates into the STI, including upgrading the suspension (done !), improving the steering to work well with the upgraded suspension (not done) and introducing better seats (than the useless "flatties" that the current generation STI/WRX and all STI/WRX's since the 2004 model year has) which too did not happen. So other than firming up the suspension (which is the easiest task for the aftermarket) the STI hatch was left to fester in its 2008 introductory state.

    What would have been impossible for the aftermarket, would have been introducing sharper/faster steering gear like in the SPEC-C or better bolstered seats (which is just not replaceable via the aftermarket, since airbags and other SRS electronics are embedded into the driver's seats) and better engine technology like DI which would enable more power and better mileage, along with improvements into the Turbo itself enabling faster spooling and reducing turbo-lag. The results of course were sorely disappointing - to me !

    They made a big hoo-haa that the suspension was "fine tuned on the Nurburgring". Sure. But what they failed to mention was that the fine-tuning of the suspension on the SPEC-C, happened with the SPEC-C's faster/sharper steering, the SPEC-C's fast-spooling and highly tractable twin-scroll turbo engine etc and not just stiffening up the suspension and calling it a day, while leaving all other aspects of driveability, unchanged. :mad: What they failed to state was that it was the total package that was "fine-tuned on the Nurburgring" and not just the stiffer suspension.

    The big winners from the new introductions were the WRX (which benefited from the bodystyle changes, even though IMHO, the WRX after the 2009 updates, was definitely not in need of another body-style update) and the availability of the sedan STI bodystyle (for people who were waiting for it). To me the whole hoopla surrounding the "new and improved" 2011 STI was a total wet dishrag.

    I was all set for a 2011 STI hatch (with the above said improvements) but not very enthused with what finally appeared. I am currently looking around for a 2010 STI SE (with no options) but will also keep my eye open for other options available in the market.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I thought they *did* change the seats? No?

    Mags are clocking regular WRXs as quicker than the STI, so besides the 6 speed and DCCD, there's not much reason to upgrade now, especially since visual distinction is far less now.
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    No, based on feedback from people who sat in the cars in NY, the seats are supposed to be identical - no changes there.

    Yeah, the gearing of the STI basically means that a shift into 3rd would be needed, right before it gets to 60mph.....the WRX can cross 60mph in 2nd. So that is a 0-60 killer - for the STI. The additional weight of the STI (almost 200 lbs more than the WRX) is not helping things either.

    In addition to that, there are indications that the power rating of the 09+ WRXs are deliberately under-rated to prevent any more embarassment to the STI than absolutely needed.

    Bottomline, Subaru seems to be leaving the STI to languish, thinking that it would spur WRX sales (you are getting "almost an STI" for 1000s less) and that, IMHO, is a serious and strategic mistake. The STI brandname would be irreparably damaged.

    They should just bring over an LHD version of the SPEC-C as *the* STI, which in turn would maintain a decent separation between the STI and the WRX. If not, then just kill off the STI, instead of leaving it as-is, so that the branding will not be further diluted.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2010
    Spec-C, undiluted, would be good.

    If they think the price would get too high (a valid concern, since Edmunds' last EVO cost $44 grand), then introduce a Legacy STI instead, with a turbocharged 3.6l H6.

    $43,984. :surprise:

    http://www.insideline.com/mitsubishi/lancer-evolution/2010/comparison-test-2010-- bmw-335i-vs-2010-mitsubishi-lancer-evolution-mr-touring.html#article_pagination_- top_1
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,672
    edited April 2010
    I was one of those who sat in the car at NY, at the sneak-peek the night before it was announced at the NY show.

    The seats are fine. They were leather (STI Limited), and seemed a little more supportive than those found in my '09 WRX. The big STI news, besides the 4-door, is the suspension has been upgraded.

    Keep in mind that this was a mid-life upgrade, not a full model makeover. As such, I was quite impressed.

    One more thing: The seats are not that much different than those found in the Porsche 911 (see link). That's as good an endorsement as any as far as I'm concerned.

    http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/i/V/1/ag_09_911_frtseat.jpg

    Bob
  • rblnrrblnr Posts: 124
    DI engines? (when) New Impreza (when/what)? Any guesses on where Subaru is going with specific cars and as a brand? I find the look and concept of the hybrid tourer great, but will it ever see the light of day? Etc. ??

    Here's Dan Neil's take on the Legacy:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303348504575184631545330398.html?K- EYWORDS=subaru

    The guy won a Pulitzer for his car reviews and I think he's generally right on w/his reviews.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,672
    Rumor has it that the Impreza will be the first Subie hybrid, probably in 2012.

    DI? My guess in a year or two.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    let's get real, America, you are significant of pants

    That was funny.

    This is a distinctive brand. The sheet metal should match.

    When it does, people complain even louder. See 2002: bug-eyes.

    My concern is simply this: Subaru's strength is in the purity, the clarity of its brand. It's the brand's self-definition, apart from the competition, that attracts the faithful.

    Yes, but....

    Subaru has chased mass-market acceptance before, and been burned badly. Does anyone remember the SVX? By all means, Subaru, make the cars better, but don't throw them in the anonymizing blender of the mass market.

    Terrible example.

    SVX, seriously? That's about as distinctive as you can get, with it's canopy roof.

    They were burned trying to sell FWD.

    I don't think he's giving the current lineup enough credit. Sales were up 100% plus even before the storms hit.
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    There seems to be a mixed message about the 2011 seats. Several people who sat in them state they are the same as the 2008+ WRX/STI seats, which, IMHO are lousy for performance driving.

    Certain others state that there is a change in the 2011 seats that make them more supportive. I will have to sit in it in person to make a final call on this. I just wish they would just bring back the top-notch seats from the 2002/2003 WRX, which was universally acclaimed to be great for both long distance driving comfort and also for superb supportiveness during spirited driving.

    As far as the Porsche seats, this is one of the cases where appearances can be deceptive. You need to actually sit in it to realize how supportive it is (I have sat and driven in them). The Subaru 2004+ WRX/STI seats are in no way, shape or form as supportive as the 911 seats, even though visually they might have some resemblance.
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    edited April 2010
    Spec-C, undiluted, would be good.

    If they think the price would get too high (a valid concern, since Edmunds' last EVO cost $44 grand), then introduce a Legacy STI instead, with a turbocharged 3.6l H6.


    I believe the SPEC-C is priced at around $38K (2-3K over the standard STI), which is a better price than some of the USDM STIs listed for sale with expensive accessories. I found several USDM STIs listed for $40K+ :sick: ....of course the fact that they have been sitting on the dealer's lot - unsold - for several months should have been a pointer to Subaru to not bloat up the car with useless/expensive options that nobody wants.

    The SE version of the STI was supposed to be value priced and I have already seen several SEs listed for well over $36K (piled to the gills with useless options like "sport grille" and "Exhaust finishers" (aluminum trim piece costing over $200) etc) Of course the no-options version of the SE, listing in the $32K range, literally fly off the lots the day it lands at the dealer's lot......Subaru, get a clue ! :mad:
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    edited April 2010
    DI? My guess in a year or two.

    Instead of continuing to flirt with Turbo-charging the 4-cylinder engine and getting mileage in the 17/23 range (STI's EPA numbers), Subaru should go back and introduce a revised version of the 3.0 H6 into the STI, with DI and no Turbo. With DI, they should be able to get it to over 300HP/280+ Torque, while bettering the mileage.

    In the past, the STI was supposed to be a homologation special but the USDM 2.5L does not meet the homologation rules anyway. So why bother to stick with Turbo-charging 4-cylinder engines and getting horrendous mileage (along with the hit in long-term engine reliability) in the bargain ?

    Note that even in the Extended Warranty provided by Subaru, they have a $500 "Turbo Surcharge" - probably to account for the higher failure rate of Turbo-charged engines. Turbo-charged engines are also mandatorily classified by Subaru as a "Severe driving condition" and requires that the oil changes be done at 3750 mile intervals to maintain warranty coverage. That is a LOT of extra expense that the owners have to bear (over driving a normally aspirated product), while driving around in a 4-cylinder turbo car that yields 17/23 mpg !

    Of course the STI's gearing has a part to play in the mileage but even then 23mpg on the highway in a 2.5L 4-cylinder car ? That is pitiful.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited April 2010
    Subaru should go back and introduce a revised version of the 3.0 H6 into the STI, with DI and no Turbo.

    That's a pretty radical idea. I'm not sure it would work.

    To a lot of folks, WRX goes hand in hand with turbocharging.

    The EZ30 made no torque and ran on premium fuel. The EZ36 is better in every way. I'd start with that, and build a halo Legacy.
  • aaykayaaykay Posts: 539
    edited April 2010
    Actually I am not talking about the older 3.0 H6 or the current 3.6 H6, both of whom don't have DI (Direct Injection) technology. I am talking about a re-worked version of the 3.0 H6, that does have DI.

    The biggest advantage with DI would be the spurt in power AND Torque (well above the old 250HP etc) along with better mileage. A well tuned version should be able to get to 300+HP easily and push comes to shove, they can adopt the approach in the new Hyundai Sonata and go with a light pressure Turbo-charger in the 3.0L H6.

    The Hyundai 2.0L Turbo runs on regular fuel, has Direct Injection, generates 274HP and 269 Torque and gets 22mpg City/34mpg hwy mileage.

    Very true about the image of the WRX being joined at the hip with turbo-charging.....in which case, they should simply replace the 2.5L Turbo H4 with a new 3.0L H6 (with DI and a light pressure Turbo) in the USDM STI, with all other components of the STI like the 6-spd MT, front/center/rear mechanical diffs, brembos etc., remaining as-is. The good thing about a light pressure turbo-charger is that they will be able to run it with regular fuel, will not have any impact on engine longevity and with DI, will generate a lot of power and Torque and have good mileage. I am looking at 330HP/300Torque (via DI and the light pressure Turbo), runs with regular fuel and yields 30+mpg hwy.

    PS: As it stands, there is very little weight difference between the 2.5L Turbo and the 3.0L H6, since the 2.5L Turbo comes with the additional Turbo hardware in addition to the Engine itself. There is absolutely zero mileage advantage from the 4-cylinder Turbo either, over the 6-cylinder. A 3.0L H6 with DI and a light pressure Turbo can achieve roughly the same weight numbers (as the current 2.5L H4 with the high-pressure Turbo) and be a VERY lightly stressed engine (vis-a-vis the current 2.5T)......which would enable Subaru to drop atrocious demands like mandatory 3750 mile oil changes (or 3.75months whichever is sooner) to maintain the warranty.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,672
    I honestly don't find the seats in my '09 WRX to be as bad as everyone says. No, they're not Recaros, but they hold this 213-pound. body in place just fine during spirited driving. If I was competing in races, yeah, I'd like something a bit more supportive; but as a daily driver, they're fine (for me, at least).

    One more point, I've driven the EVO with Recaros, and they are not as comfortable as my WRX seats. Yeah, they grip you like crazy, but I don't equate that to comfort; not sure I'd want to be that confined on a long trip.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,672
    I think a 3.0 turbo would be perfect for the STI, if for no other reason as a marketing point—to further separate the STI from the WRX, since now they look so similar. I've stated this before over at NASIOC.

    Bob
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