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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • lucien2lucien2 Posts: 2,984
    If DSM is pulling the EVO out of WRC in favor of a smaller hatch, I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru does the same. This would remove the displacement restriction on the WRX STi, opening the door for a 2.5t. Hehheh, WRC Pleo STi Ver. I Anyone?
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    How's a next-generation 350 HP Legacy H-6 turbo grab you? And/or a (in-house designed & Isuzu-aided) Subaru diesel? Note: The wagon no longer has the goofy stepped roof! :)


    FHI must have been reading some of my wish-list posts from the past couple of years.


    http://www.sportscartesting.com/news/subaru/id547/pg2843


    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=293325


    Bob

  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    I know I said a dark blue Legacy would be what I want, but, hey, I'd take that black wagon up there!


    I doubt this redesign would get introduced in Chicago, but, hey, one could hope!


    -Brian

  • lakepoplakepop Posts: 221
    sweet subie.....YIKES...don't know what you currently drive what you do for a living or if your are married....but you sure come on like a pretty NEGATIVE person.
    People that "expect dissapointment" most always find it. This is hardly a perfect world we live in and unless you are wealthy enough to have things custom built to your specific wants...choices become a compromise.
    I for one am pretty happy with my not perfect Forester and can only hope that you can learn to deal with the choices offered.
    There is an interesting post in nasioc club Forester forum reference the turbo Forester due in early 03
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    FACTS:
    · Next-generation Subaru Legacy range
    · 4- and 6-cyl. front-engines, 4 x 4
    · 2.0-litre flat-4, 2.5-litre flat-4, 3.0-litre flat-6
    · New diesel-engine
    · Up to 3530 bhp*
    · 24,500 Euro to 46.000 Euro
    · 15.500 pounds to 29,000 pounds
    · Launch: Spring 2003


    Subie diesel
    My guess is that the new diesel will be a boxer engine, although nothing is noted, other than it will occur. I'm sure the block and head will be of cast iron, rather than aluminium, because of the ultra-high compression that diesels use, and do to the accompanying high stresses. So the engine will be much heavier than the gas engines. I'm also guessing it will be either a SOHC or DOHC, rather than OHV. Most, if not all, modern diesels from Japan use overhead cams. My guess is that it will also be turbocharged.

    I've said many times in the past that Subaru should have a diesel in their engine portfolio. With a diesel, they would have a much larger presence in Europe and other markets where diesels are so valued. That will soon be the case here too, as low-sulphur diesel fuel becomes available in the next few years.

    Displacement? If this diesel is 2.0L or smaller, it's use will be strictly for cars. However, if the engine is "over" 2.0L, it has the possibility of being used in small trucks/SUVs, if Subaru should decide to enter those markets. Nissan has a 3.0 turbo 4-cylinder diesel that it uses in their pickups in Australia, etc. Toyota has 4-cylinder turbo diesels in the 2.4L - 2.7L range for their small trucks and SUVs in other markets.

    As exciting as the H-6 turbo sounds, I think the "real" news here is that Subaru is going to be building diesels. On a worldwide basis, this diesel will have far more "bottom-line" impact for FHI, than the H-6 turbo will, IMO.

    H-6 turbo
    We knew this was going to happen, sooner or later. With this revelation, I suspect the '04 Legacy will also get the same turbo that the Baja and Forester will be getting; and that when the all-new '05 model debuts, it will be offered with both the 2.5 H-4 turbo, and the 3.0 H-6 turbo.

    Things are looking up folks! :)

    * = Up to 3530 bhp must be a typo. I'm sure they meant 350 bhp.

    Bob
  • joybelljoybell Posts: 275
    I've had both....a 2WD and AWD Subaru, and my on my 87 Chaser I had a lever where I could switch into 4WD (except not on dry roads). I found that I don't really need AWD, although I live in a rural area. So why do I hear that in Japan Subaru still sells 2WD vehicles, but not in North America? Is that just to be able to proclaim on North American TV ads that "all our vehicles are AWD"? What's the truth? Front wheel drive Subarus would certainly be more affordable!
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    AWD, it's the one feature that sets Subaru apart from every other brand out there. Prior to going all-AWD, Subaru was on the verge of extinction. They went all-AWD, to set them apart—and to survive in the marketplace. I think they've proven their switch to AWD was the correct marketing move, as Subaru now is quite successful, and getting more so each year.

    In Japan the base Impreza 1.5 is available in both FWD and AWD. In every other market, outside of Japan, Subarus are available *only* in AWD.

    Yes, for years people have gotten by without AWD, but AWD certainly makes life a whole lot easier in poor traction conditions.

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    Holy cow Bob, nice find! I like it lots...but 46,000 Euro = approx $46,000 US (almost 1:1 ratio). I can't imagine that will fly here. No doubt it will have to sticker for more than the H6 Outbacks, though.

    I wonder if that car is actually next-gen or a current-gen test mule for the drivetrain. I wouldn't mind the latter, actually.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    Like the M3, I think the turbo H-6 will be a very limited production "halo" car for Subaru.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    It doesn't have the goofy stepped roof of current Legacy wagons.

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    Hmmm...even if competing against BMW and Audi it will still have to undercut on price. There is no current S4 (last-gen Avant stickered at $43,300, S4 sedan at $40,850); S6 Avant stickers at $58,700. M3 coupe stickers at $46,500. No wagon equivalent in BMW lineup.

    I'd venture that it will have to come in under $40K US fully loaded to have a shot at selling.

    Ed

    (edit: checked the roof, yes it's a next-gen car.)
  • joybelljoybell Posts: 275
    I am getting my red Impreza, keeping my 1993 Loyale wagon (just can't bear to let it go), and now I found a 1985 sedan "Berline" in perfect, rust-free condition here: http://www.hebdo.net/v5/result/affich.asp?sid=44KEOYK10456936&rubno=4000&pa=5&pr=1&cregion=1011


    It sure would be nice to buy and keep in one of our sheds for another 20 years, then take out as an antique! What do you think?


    Should I take it too?

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    it will be priced lower than the Audi S4 or BMW M3, when it arrives, but probably not by much.

    I'm assuming the 2.5 turbo will remain part of the package, or the H-6. I think those vehicles will be the "bread-'n-butter" performance Legacys. I think the H-6 turbo will be like the Impreza STi—rare & pricey.

    Bob
  • joybelljoybell Posts: 275
    I am getting my red Impreza, keeping my 1993 Loyale wagon (just can't bear to let it go), and now I found a 1985 sedan "Berline" in perfect, rust-free condition here: http://www.hebdo.net/v5/result/affich.asp?sid=44KEOYK10456936&rubno=4000&pa=5&pr=1&cregion=1011


    It sure would be nice to buy and keep in one of our sheds for another 20 years, then take out as an antique! What do you think?


    Should I take it too?

  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    depends on how it's equipped in the $40k range, and of course performance is CRITICAL.

    but the M3 for $46k is deceptive. they can be optioned well into the 50s and often are.

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    Go for it! :)


    Parlez-vous Français?


    Bob

  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=294128

    Sounds like a rather extreme measure to keep the MSRP down...

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    170 hours and 22 minutes (as of this time of posting) until we learn if the new STi gets a 2.0 or 2.5 engine!

    Bob
  • lilbluewgn02lilbluewgn02 PAPosts: 1,085
    Is that Greenwich Time???? :0) and have you synchronized your clocks???
  • hondafriekhondafriek Ottawa CanadaPosts: 2,924
    Now that we are facing the prospect of being held hostage at the gas pumps again, (it is already heading skyward in Canada as I write)I think it is about time auto makers started getting serious about alternative fuel vehicles.

    Government could also chip in, one way, download some of the gas taxes we pay onto the people who like to drive gas hogs I:E. if you want to drive a pig that gets 10 miles to the gallon pay more of your share of the gas tax, if you drive a fuel efficient car like us responsible Subie owners pay less of your share of gas taxes.

    Cheers Pat.
  • blaneblane Posts: 2,017
    hondafriek:

    I concur with you about the need for fuel efficiency. Sadly, when I read these Subaru Crew boards, whenever the subject of what we want to see in future models comes up, most of the comments ask for longer, wider, faster, larger engined Subarus. That means more oil will need to be imported from our wonderful friends in the Middle East.
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    actually we're getting more and more of it from Canada and Venezuela. well, the later a bit less now that they've having a civil war-- or something near it.

    the US is a petroleum EXPORTER to Asia; mostly Japan. crazy stuff, eh?

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    If that vehicle makes it to our shores, I might have to ditch the SVX and the Trooper and buy one.

    :)

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    << Sadly, when I read these Subaru Crew boards, whenever the subject of what we want to see in future models comes up, most of the comments ask for longer, wider, faster, larger engined Subarus. >>

    Most of the people posting here are avid car enthusiasts, hence the desire for more power. That's not to say they (we) don't have any social concerns. If that were to be the case, thee would be far more posts requesting 5+ liter engines, which is clearly not the case. In fact, a number "Crew" members have a strong distaste for SUVs and large pickups, or anything that is needlessly wasteful.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I'm the TPI of the group.

    Token Politically Incorrect :)

    5+liters + AWD = Wheeeeee!

    After 9/11 I live for fun and myself. Life is way too short to worry about anything else!

    -mike
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    I have to agree with Bob, Blane. It's been my observation on the web as well as in person that most Subaru owners are pretty practical and realized that the Subaru line meets their needs without the excesses of other vehicles. The AWD (of all models) and raised undercarriage (of most models) gives them the rough-road and all-weather capabilities of a light truck or SUV without the bulk. While not as luxurious as competitors from Audi, Volvo and an increasing number of makes, they've been shown to be more reliable and cheaper to maintain than those competitors. Finally, the performance aspects of Subarus have only been emphasized in the North American market since 1998 (with the advent of the Impreza 2.5RS) and have really taken off with the introduction of the Impreza WRX, which is classed as a LEV and fairly fuel efficient given its power. Obviously no Subaru can do the heavy hauling and towing of a large SUV or light-medium duty pickup, so they're not all things to all people.

    The flip side of course is that the WRX runs on premium unleaded and the boxer engines and AWD drivetrain aren't as efficient as maybe they could be. Improvements in aerodynamics could help both fuel efficiency and styling, something Subarus have been criticized for over the years.

    I believe that Bob has already touched on the introduction of performance diesels by BMW, and Peugeot recently showed running prototype diesel sports cars (called Diamonds and Spades IIRC). So the potential for others to explore that market exists. I won't get into politics here but leave to everyone's own thoughts what government's role in mandating or staying out of requiring alt-fueled vehicles should be, not to mention the conflicts caused by lobbyists and the personal financial interests of elected officials.

    I'll just stick to cars and say these are exciting times for enthusiasts, whether due to new technologies or current world events.

    ed
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,663
    an unrepentant car nut, I appreciate most all types of vehicles; from the micro-cars found in Japan, to the huge Caterpillar dump trucks found only in mining quarries.

    I've also often been an advocate here of large SUVs and pickups. Having said that, I "do" have a problem owning a very "inefficient and wasteful" vehicle. Our Explorer is right on the borderline, IMO. I can't wait for gas (or diesel) electric hybrids become the norm for mid and full-size SUVs and pickups.

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    Ed - Didn't you see an alternative fuel Forester at one of the Euro car shows?

    -Dennis
  • twrxtwrx Posts: 647
    If it is true that there will be a turbo diesel that is good news. Also I hope Subaru considers making a hybrid like the one that they showed off at auto shows last year. For that matter maybe they need to take a look at what Acura did with the prototype AWD sports car hybrid that gets 400+ hp and 40 mpg. Any thing is possible with the kind of engineering knowhow that Subaru has. In the meantime I must admit to being somewhat convoluted. I consider myself an environmentalist and I had a CRX at one point that easily got over 40 mpg highway. But now I have a WRX. After last weekend's 30 mpg trip in it I guess I don't feel too guilty.

    TWRX
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    Yes, Dennis, I did. I forgot to mention that! There were two cars at the Bologna International Motor Show, a Forester and an Impreza wagon, with the naturally aspirated EJ20 designed to run on LP as well as gasoline.

    Ed
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