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Comments
(ok, what the hell is sitescope and why did it barge into my Edmunds session demanding a username and password, then deny me the right to post?!)
-Dave
-mike
-Brian
They had all the volume sellers - Forester, LL Bean, WRX, OBS, etc.
Anyway, the Subaru stand was crowded. Much more so than last year IIRC.
-juice
Looks like some WRX owners are a little sensitive to the possibility that the Forester XT might be as quick (if not quicker) than their vehicles. ;-)
Ken
(trying to cleverly convince the dw she needs an XT for her Tastefully Simple business, what a write-off that would be!)
-Brian
On the contrary, I believe the STi will direct more attention to the XT. For now the XT and Baja turbo are the only two vehicles in Subaru's line up that would be able to take bolt-on upgrades from the STi.
I thought Paul Hansen's comment on the fact that the JDM Forester turbo has always had very close straightline performance to the WRX was interesting.
"Tastefully Simple" -- what kind of business? I like the name.
Ken
After last Friday I think the likelihood of my going over to the dark side has decreased dramatically.
Ed
(delving OT a bit...)
http://www.tastefullysimple.com is the company website. Think of it as something like Pampered Chef/Tupperware/etc. She enjoys it, so I'm behind her 100%. Plus the benefits I get are free Beer Bread (yummmy!) and any other samples. She does this part time, hoping to one day to just do this. She'll likely be posting a bit of a profit this year, so I'll need to start thinking of things to offset it (could use a computer for her business alone, car for business, etc.) That's where my XT thoughts come in!
(If anyone is interested) shoot me an email if you want more info on the food thing.
-Brian
Think about it, 25% more displacement, not much extra weight.
Ed: I can sense it. ;-)
-juice
Brakes
Suspension
etc.
-mike
Same here too, except that for me it was seeing the '04 WRX wagon in person. I was a bit underwhelmed, especially with the thought that it wouldn't come with AWP.
HOWEVER, there is another contender in the not-to-far future.
http://www.apexjapan.com/news/04_leg/03_leg_photo.html
How about waiting around for that?
Ken
"I can turn him back to the good side. I have to try." (Luke, Episode VI) - The good side is becoming blurry: Forester XT, WRX, WRX-STi, Baja Turbo, or '05 Legacy?
"There is a great disturbance in the Force." (Emperor, Episode V) - Wagon, Mini-SUV, Sedan, or crossover truck? How does one decide?
"There is a question of precedure, but I feel confident we can overcome it..." (Palpatine, Episode I) - Anyone want to buy a slightly used <insert your Subaru here>?
"I think we'd better replace the negative power coupling." (Han, Episode V) - Which STi parts will work on my <insert turbo Subaru model here>?
;-)
-Brian
XT premium probably $27k, again uneducated guess.
-Brian
-mike
whateva.
-Colin
But hey if you wanna have an unbalanced car for the drag strip, that's cool.
-mike
likewise you can have an underpowered turd with nifty suspension and brakes that is a fine handling (probably great at autocross) but ultimately boring car.
-Colin
-mike
-Brian
Good question. I guess it depends on how much margin is built into the drivetrain.
Ken
I have driven RS turbos and frankly there is nothing all that different from a WRX. why is going from 165 to 220ish HP okay but 220 to 270 not?
The brakes and handling are already quite competent, it's just up to the driver not to do something stupid with the additional power.
-Colin
Even better, put the engine in a future STi, or make a Forester STi? :-))))
They claimed that specifications outside of the Auto Show info are currently not available. Here is what they said:
"This new model should be available at Subaru dealerships in June, which is when our Web site will be updated with the 2004 Forester information."
Note that the clearance is officially listed as 7.5", which is the same as the other Foresters. And I wouldn't want it any lower.
- D.
-mike
allhorizon: I'm a little surprised that the XT has the same ground clearance as the rest of the line (I suppose I could've measured it on Friday). That puts a little damper on the rumors that it'd have a different suspension than the X and XS - of course it could have different spring and shock rates while maintaining the current ride height.
Colin: The Forester XT would be upgrade enough for me, I imagine. A good argument could be made that I'm wasting my 17" plus-one setup on my current Forester (I won't go so far as to call it an "underpowered turd") but it does make it much more fun to drive and a surprisingly good handler. OTOH I could save them to put on a new XT.
Brian: I'm beginning to think there is no dark side...it's all good.
Ed
Cheers Pat.
Mark
After the chip, what else would I get? I think for an XT I'd put winter tires on the standard rims and gets 17" rims with summer tires for truly sporty driving. Maybe upgrade the brakes, but only if I felt they faded with my typical use. I don't think I'd change the springs.
Besides, most "upgraded" springs tend to have less travel and a ride far too harsh for the roads I happen to drive on. I might even have to rethink the rims. The Miata takes a pounding, no doubt.
-juice
-mike
I'm just saying that's what some would do. Heck, I'm not even sure I'll get an XT, given the phase of my life (parenthood).
-juice
Does that mean SOA will be importing the 2.5 Turbo for the Baja Turbo or are they planning on building the 2.5 T here?
I've seen a Forester XT brochure at a local dealer and I do recall the specs mentioning a 7.5" ground clearance. For this particular application, I'd gladly trade off some ground clearance for a more sporting ride.
Ed: One thing that also would tip me in favor for the XT is that it will probably will continue to be built in Japan. Just my own personal preference.
Ken
I'm sure the Forester engine will be made in Gunma. I wonder if any JDM vehicles will get that powertrain?
I'm gonna disagree with you and Ed and ask for the same clearance. Not that I wouldn't want it sportier, just that it'll hurt the image if it's any lower than it already is, and therefore sales.
Look how much cooler the Baja looks even after a tiny 1.1" lift.
10% stiffer springs, and fatter sways front and rear, sure. RS springs fit and are a dime-a-dozen if you want to lower it.
-juice
"allhorizon: I'm a little surprised that the XT has the same ground clearance as the rest of the line (I suppose I could've measured it on Friday). That puts a little damper on the rumors that it'd have a different suspension than the X and XS - of course it could have different spring and shock rates while maintaining the current ride height."
I have always been a fan of the current ride height, don't want to raise or lower it, nor do I want lips, spats, skirts or anything else hanging off the bottom of my Forester - except bigger mud flaps. ;-)
Ed
The entire Subaru lineup will be pressurized for at least the top-end offerings in most to all international markets. For the U.S. specifically, which is the focus of Subaru's current efforts, this means that the Forester, Baja, and next version of the Legacy will be turbocharged with intercooled single turbo systems. Of particular note is the fact that all of them will not be using 2.0-litre turbo motors, but instead variants of the 2.5-litre turbo found in the upcoming USDM STi. And contrary to rumours otherwise, that is not an existing 2.5-litre block adapted to a high-pressure lifestyle, but is indeed a whole new block designed for pooowaaah. The Legacy, Forester and Baja will not be running the 300hp/300ft/lb lifestyle designated for the rich and famous STi, instead featuring power in the 220-260hp range with gobs of tarmac destroying low-end torque. The new Legacy is a cracker of a car, btw, and a source says it goes much better than the oh-so-last-week-news B4. It is likely to be sharper, with more responsive steering, more aggressive suspension and enough rubber to keep this lighter B4 replacement out of the weeds. Sounds like a S401 for the masses! There is no story on what happens to the WRX, and it's likely to keep the 2.0-litre turbo unit, given the marketplace in Europe and Asia greatly prefers the tax bracket that motor and car size fits in. Recent USDM STi rumours points towards it not only being more manly than any other STi in the marketplace, but also lighter on it's feet, though probably not the wallet. STi is allegedly working on getting this car to around the weight of a stripped down STi Type C, but with all the goodies intact. For some reason, 300hp, 300ft/lb's of torque in a 3000lb awd cannon shot sounds almost poetic to this bearer of good gossip.
Both the Baja Turbo and Forester XT are listed at 210hp @ 5.6k RPM, 235lb-ft @ 3.6k RPM, per http://www.media.subaru.com
-Brian
I like the current clearance because you can easily drive over speed bumps, steep driveways, ramps, etc. I don't think I've ever bottomed out, something I can't say for any other car I've owned.
Perhaps the 220-260 was meant for the Legacy motor.
-juice
Outback will be the only model without a turbo ? that't not good......this is the highest selling model ?
SUV owners want more cylinders, so to me that strategy makes sense since it's pitched as an SUV alternative.
The Legacy GT will get a turbo.
Look at the Audi allroad quattro - the 2.7T engine wasn't enough so now they offer a V8.
-juice
Bob
-mike
-mike
The Outback is only slightly raised and painted two-tone, but for the most part it still looks like a Legacy.
I agree - the 2005 Legacy looks like it'll get a flat roof. Give the 2005 Outback an exslusive raised roof with theatre seating for the back row. Give it a bigger gas tank under that higher seat, and make the H6 the standard engine. Give it real skid plates and more of a lift for the suspension.
-juice
Back in '96, the Outback was just an option package for the Legacy wagon as much as it was for the Impreza wagon. In '97 it became a variant of the Legacy and it's become more distinct since.
Interestingly, the Forester was the first model to come out where the "Outback" package -- cladding, beefier suspension, AWP (in some trims) -- was already included.
Ken