Subaru Crew - Modifications II

locke2c · October 2002

a car I'm paying for will be stock, yes. modding a paid off car would be fine, especially one that isn't worth a great deal.

-Colin

ateixeira · October 2002

So you think I should go a group buy for a Greddy turbo for the Miata? It's cheap - $1080 last time I checked.

I probably won't. Not worth the effort for the low boost setup I'd be willing to invest in.

-juice

kens · October 2002

Colin -- I thought you had taken the Impreza to the dealer and they had, at least temporarily, fixed the coolant loss. I guess it would kind of suck if the dealer tore down the engine, saw the porting and told you they wouldn't charge it to warranty!

juice -- I'm sure it's not outrageously expensive to buy a snorkus. ;-)

Ken

locke2c · October 2002

Ken-- I wasn't loosing coolant when I brought it into the dealer... I think. Can't remember for sure although I guess the posts from early this year are here on Edmunds if I cared to dig.

Topping the coolant did temporarily resolve the overheating, I remember that for sure.

-Colin

lilbluewgn02 · October 2002

If you're interested, I can put you in touch with a Subie guy here in Florida, that also has a turbo Miata. LMK
Serge

ateixeira · October 2002

True, Ken. I probably won't bother. In fact I'll probably keep Sandy for at least another year or two.

When the 2004 Forester Turbo comes out, demand will be high at first, so I'll wait for prices to settle. I may also wait and see what the 2005 Legacy twin turbo looks like.

Miata.net has a great Garage section, lots of folks share their turbo experiences there. It's just a thought. I probably wouldn't.

I found a high mileage '99 Miata locally, under $10 grand. Thought about selling mine privately, I could probably get $7 grand, and pay the difference to get one 6 years newer, with 24 more horses and a glass rear window.

But mine's fine, reliable as a Seiko. I think if I sell it, I'll regret it, it'll be "the one that got away".

-juice

idahodoug · October 2002

"I dunno, I just feel like I have to customize whatever I own to my liking. But I probably ought to leave the engines alone - not enough experience to fix whatever I screw up."

Juice,

I do a lot of mods to every car I buy. But I don't mess with the powertrain at all, except to put synthetics into it, saving my money for things that will make the car safer and more enjoyable for my particular tastes. I do this because I tend to buy a vehicle that already has a powertrain that meets my needs in terms of power and features, then tailor the car to my tastes with this firm foundation.

This approach produces a vehicle I liked from the start that now meets my every need without any warrantee or durability issues no matter how hard I push it. I typically add quality lights, stereos, upgraded tires, winter rims, and the like. Call me a wuss, but I don't have the cajones to modify a modern powertrain - especially one under warranty. It's amazing how many younger owners - especially Subie owners - are making fairly energetic mods to their powertrains. But it also makes me wince when I see a lowered 2 year old Civic with clearly modified powertrain already blowing smoke out the exhaust. This person has likely taken a vehicle whose engine would have lasted 200k miles and messed with something that took it outside the mfrs cooling system capacity or similar fatal error. I shake my head and wonder "Did he drop $400 on headers, then $1400 on wheels and tires and decide to put off the oil changes for lack of money while trying to keep up with the payments?" Or was it simply a matter of abusing the vehicle with the slight performance mods?

It's a reasonable assumption that the manufacturer of today's vehicles has balanced the engine's power, cooling system and brakes in such a way that an abusive owner can be accomodated as long as they're maintaining fluids. But when you extract additional power (more heat) from the engine, it may be that you're stressing the cooling system more easily - leading to blown gaskets, etc. So, ironically the modded engine should be babied in order to avoid exceeding the durability of unmodded parts while the stock vehicle can be driven hard without worry.

Of course, this all assumes the modding owner spent all his money on 'go-fast' stuff and did not also switch to synthetics and early fluid changes, or a larger radiator. Which I think is typical.

IdahoDoug

ateixeira · October 2002

I doubt they're skipping oil changes, but I see your point.

What they are doing is putting unexpected stress on the rest of the powertrain. Stock pistons and drive shafts are not forged, usually "R" or "STi" models' are.

They're also increasing unsprung weight dramatically when they go from 14" steelies to 17" alloys, no matter the price they'll weigh more.

-juice

kens · October 2002

juice,

Yes, so many potential choices coming up, it's going to be hard to decide! One thing for certain for me though, my next purchase will not be a first model year vehicle.

Ken

ateixeira · October 2002

Really?

I guess you go an early first-year Forester. Mine was made a few months later, probably after a couple of running changes in production.

I've been to the dealer once in 4 years and 2 months, that's it. If only all cars could be so dependable.

In fact, sometimes I think it would be dumb to sell it. Maybe I'm lucky and I got a "keeper", one of those that will join the 1/4 million mile club. I still have all the OE bearings and even brake pads!

-juice

lucien2 · October 2002

As you know, my mods are fairly tame. I do think the uprated exhaust helps the car without compromising reliability, and I also think the minor things like swaybar and tower brace are helpful. But I really don't feel any desire at all to mess with cams or turbos and the like. I will probably uprate things like clutch and flywheel when the OEM stuff quits, but that's about it.

ateixeira · October 2002

Yeah, cat-backs don't really touch anything that would affect reliability, unless the exhaust itself isn't SS and rusts.

Bracing won't either, unless it's very poorly designed. Though I have heard of some massive sway bars on Miatas end up damaging the car where the end links bolt up.

ACT or the Clutchmasters Stage I from Ludespeed? ;-)

-juice

lucien2 · October 2002

Stage 1, since bugbomb's ACT slips a lot.

ateixeira · October 2002

I remember him telling he got one, it slips, eh? Funny side note: his g/f bought it for him for his b-day, I told him she was a keeper! :-)

paisan had an ACT I think, maybe on his old car.

-juice

idahodoug · October 2002

Juice/Lucien,

There's a perfectly good example of a misnomer "the uprated exhaust helps the car without compromising reliability". How do you know this? Did you put a temp probe into your exhaust manifold before the mod and run it hard, then duplicate this after the mod?

You see, the manufacturers DO these kinds of things. They KNOW what the exhaust manifold temp is while running the car unreasonably hard on a test track at 110 air temps. Then they decide to put in an upgraded exhaust manifold gasket, or a heat shield to protect nearby electronic components, etc etc.

With your uprated exhaust that changes the flow and pressure characteristics in the exhaust manifold and the entire exhaust - what's happened to peak temps? Have you increased the peak temps by 45 degrees and therefore exceeded the max temp range of a couple nearby sensors? Or wiring? Or shortened the life of the oxygen sensor? Is the exhaust pipe's hottest spot now a couple feet back from stock next to where it passes by the transmission casing? Who knows?

I make this point not to belittle anyone, but you have to understand the complex interplays of the automotive engineering and design process to see how seemingly little changes can have a dramatic affect.

Perhaps what you say is true - there is no real flow change and therefore no real alteration. Of course if this is true, you haven't changed the vehicle's performance a whit, but it's a possibility.

The truth of the matter is that the engine is a system and you simply cannot make a change to it and get measurable output changes without losing something in the process. Witness Juice's comment on the swaybars. A seemingly "free" performance upgrade like stiffer sway bars, right? Well, sway bars transmit torque forces measuring in the 1000s of ft-lbs and the aftermarket makers didn't realize the Miata's sway bar system (there's that word) was designed to handle only a certain amount of ft-lbs which they blindly exceeded. Damage to the system (chassis/swaybar mounts) resulted.

Comprende'?

IdahoDoug

ateixeira · October 2002

Doug: a high-flow exhaust would likely run cooler, if you think about it.

I doubt Subaru chose their exhaust based on heat measures, most likely weight and cost were bigger factors. And noise, that's the big one, you tend to get louder with aftermarket cat-backs.

Also, any half-decent custom-fit exhaust is tuned and tested by the 3rd party manufacturer.

In the case of the Miata, the folks that sell those fat sways also sell something that reinforces the connection to the end link. Buyers may cut corners and get bad results, but they did cut corners.

-juice

locke2c · October 2002

Doug,

I respectfully submit that you're overstating the dangers of an exhaust system, especially when that "system" is a simple muffler replacement, just a tad.

Most likely they just increase noise, yes. Most definitely they are not hurting anything.

-Colin

paisan · October 2002

The clutch I had was, I got it from Primitive Racing. It was a 6-puck copper clutch and man did it stick hard!

-mike

paisan · October 2002

Ok folks quick question on brands of guages.

I'm looking at VDO and Autometer not sure which are considered better/accurite etc.

-mike

locke2c · October 2002

VDO has been around longer, but I wouldn't be afraid to use either of them. I have used both in the past, but don't currently have a car with VDO gauges. The '69 Camaro has Autometer.

-Colin

paisan · October 2002

ones @ summit racing for the SVX so I'm probably gonna go with them. Just need to figure out which threads I need on the sending units for the oil pressure and the ATF plug.

-mike

lucien2 · October 2002

The exhaust is a stainless steel cat-back measuring 2.25" and made by Brullen. This mod was undertaken only after determining from several reliable sources and my own research that this system worked well on this powertrain with no adverse short or, for that matter, medium term effects. This sytem was dyno tested extensively by the manufacturer and by customers, and shows a consistent ~10hp gain at revs over 5K, with no appreciable loss in torque at low revs (unlike 2.5" or turbo-spec systems). Noise increase is the biggest appreciable, quantifiable drawback. Which is ok with me. I have NOT done anything about headers or, obviously, cams, because of known problems with these areas. I have not gotten 17" rims because only rims with a +53mm offset work properly in BD Legacy rear suspensions, and I don't have the dough for Prodrives.

I have uprated the swaybar from 15mm to 18mm, a slight increase that is plenty for this car's geometry. It is not the huge jump Juice referred to in his Miata post, and I have spent over $500 in supervised track time to ensure I have the training to understand the changes in my vehicle's handling characteristics. I would further submit to you that a change in tire compounds can have a profound effect on the loads a stock setup must endure (going from RE92 to PP S-03s for instance), and that a 3mm change in bar rate is not a problem. But just in case I switched out the stock plastic mounts for metal ones with hardened bushings.

originalbitman · October 2002

Mike - have you checked out this site:

http://www.egauges.com/index.htm

bit

paisan · October 2002

Thanks for the replies. I like the VDO Analog Guages, but I'm thinking of getting some Digital ones that would match the Climate Control system Guage that the SVX already has. A little more $ but probably worth it.

-mike

idahodoug · October 2002

Colin,

He said "exhaust", not "muffler" and that appears to be the case here.

On the changes wrought by an exhaust. Again, I think you need to know a bit about flow, backpressure and temps to understand that things can be dramatically changed. None of us know what temp changes would occur and where, but I can virtually guarantee this: If you took an infrared photograph of the underside of the car in stock form under heavy use there would be very hot spots here and there. If you took the same photographs of his car, you will find these hot spots in different locations since the point of the exhaust was to change the airflow. Where are they now? How hot are they? What's getting extra heat?

Look under your car and you'll find myriad little aluminum heat shields on wire bundles, the floor in places, drivetrain components, etc that Subaru put there after tracking down the proper locations.

The stock exhaust may have provided the correct backpressure to reduce flow through the cat through a restriction just after it through careful research. This would ensure proper cat temps and operations. Because of this, the flow might have been very fast in the header area and the headers were relatively cool. The manufacturers have concerns like peak exhaust system temps to prevent the car igniting grass or other things it may be parked atop of. They do infrared analysis, they embed dozens of sensors in the exhaust and drive it thousands of miles because this is a huge liability.

Now put on a low restriction exhaust where the back pressure is managed in the header area by cylinder pulses because there's less total system backpressure. Perhaps due to an unfortunate choice of bends or tube diameter there are certain RPMs at which a slow flow exists due to a standing wave of pressure, and perhaps a very hot spot is next to the transmission. This causes the transmission temp overall to rise 35 degrees but next to the pipe there's a 100 degree rise. And there's a solenoid with a pliable seal that hardens after 12,000 miles and no longer provides a smooth 1-2 shift. Totally speculative on my part and I have absolutely no evidence to support such a situation exists under your car. None.

But since the hot spots have moved - where are they now? And how hot are they?

Not to create a doomsday scenario here, but I can tell you with virtual certainty that the exhaust manufacturer did not have the budget to do the same testing as Subaru did. Subaru designed one exhaust and researched it well. Call them and ask them at what location in the exhaust system does the peak temp occur. In direct opposition to the contention that they carefully research this stuff, last year a big article in a 4WD magazine covering the installation of a popular aftermarket exhaust got this result: Zero. Zero power, zero MPG. All they got was a "throaty sound" and in a nod to preserving their ad revenue from this large company, they made much ado about the great sound and did not address the accompanying dyno/fuel flow charts at all. I'm not saying that's the case with your exhaust, just that buyers tend to assume these folks are out there with $350,000 worth of testing regimens for each model and it simply isn't true. Dyno improvements I believe. But the whole point of my little diatribe here is - at what cost? What else in a carefully balanced system has been changed? As important to knowing these changes happened, is accepting that we don't know what the changes are.

I am not against modifications per se, just trying to get you to understand that they can have hidden and not-so-hidden consequences. I don't have all the answers, but it's important to realize that neither do the aftermarket vendors.

IdahoDoug

lucien2 · October 2002

loud and clear. I was trying to respond by demostrating that I have thought this through, researched the potential consequences through the manufacturer but also a broad base of customers and, lastly, those involved in competition who have put these systems through various punishments. That is also why I took pains to tell you what I have not or will not do, precisely because I have put all this time into the research.

I think it is great that a popular 4X4 exhaust manufacter was debunked by a magazine. Anyone who buys anything based on ads or solely a manufacturer claim gets what he or she deserves. In my case, the paramaters of my system were exhaustively tested (heh heh) by a niche magazine. The results were that a 2.25" is the ideal size for getting hp without...ya know what? I understand your point, but I spent 6 months researching this mod and I don't want to spend anymore surf-time detailing it all over again.

locke2c · October 2002

Doug,

I don't feel the need to toot my own horn but let me just say that yes, I do have a working concept of how exhaust gas temperature works. That knowledge leads me to take issue with the following statement:

Perhaps due to an unfortunate choice of bends or tube diameter there are certain RPMs at which a slow flow exists due to a standing wave of pressure, and perhaps a very hot spot is next to the transmission. This causes the transmission temp overall to rise 35 degrees but next to the pipe there's a 100 degree rise. And there's a solenoid with a pliable seal that hardens after 12,000 miles and no longer provides a smooth 1-2 shift.

1. standing wave in the exhaust? maybe if you stay really steady at one rpm, say cruise control on absolutely flat ground. I can't see a "very" hot spot being generated at any point in the exhaust downstream due to a standing wave or any other factor. the exhaust is at most 1600 degrees exiting the exhaust port and it cools *very* quickly from there, especially after the catalysts.
(pigs flying)

2. air, especially moving air under a car, is not a very good medium for convection. I just don't see the transmission being heated 35 degrees by being next to an exhaust hot spot I don't even think could happen.
(flying pigs take over the town)

modern cars are complicated, yes, but not in this sort of crazy way. exhaust temperatures simply don't vary this much via modifications.

respectfully,
-Colin

jfl · October 2002

mike, what gauges are you thinking of going digital with?

My personal opinion is this: I don't tell time by reading the numbers, I look at the relative position of the hands. Same with rpm and engine temp, are they in the "red".

I remember hearing of racers who positioned their gauges so that 12 o'clock was the optimum position for the hands. They could tell at a quick glance what was happening.

My $0.02.

Jim

BTW - Ages ago I purchased a digital tuner because it was so d*mn hard to find a specific radio station. Just so you know I'm not totally anti-digital. 8~)

idahodoug · October 2002

I think you guys are both correct and there's no better way to research a mod than to talk with the racers who use and abuse them. And I sincerely agree that good old fashioned research went into Lucien's mods - time well spent obviously.

As to exhaust temps and the scenario I posited, the pigs flying comment seems to imply that these are hard numbers and a factual scenario I put forward. I thought I'd made it clear I had no numbers on this and that it was an illustration to make my point based on past experience. I have seen the data points on vehicle component and exhaust temps, and I have seen them change exactly as I outlined due to changes in exhaust routing and other seemingly minor changes. Years ago, I was Worldwide Powertrain Planner at General Motors HQ and we had enough resources at our disposal to certify our own EPA emissions, MPG, etc. That exhaust temps and hotspots vary and can be moved around is not new news in my world, and I wanted to bring this to the discussion as a caution.

Did Lucien's mod create an undesirable increase in heat somewhere that may shorten a component life? Dunno. You'd have to measure the heat before/after. Can we say the manufacturer's stock exhaust was free of undesirable heat buildup? I'd say 99.999% yes. Can we say the mod did not create a hot spot that will show up later? No, and that's my point.

My original point was to exercise caution in modifying vehicles too much from stock without expecting consequences. I think that point was made and I do not want to blow a lot of bandwidth on it as Lucien mentioned, since there seems to be limited interest. I appreciate both of your replies, BTW.

IdahoDoug

locke2c · October 2002

doug--

the "pigs flying" bit was my take on the chances of this happening. if you can park over grass without setting it on fire, the non-stock exhaust probably isn't doing squat to anything under the car either including the transmission.

-Colin
ps, planner = engineer? I wouldn't think so, you don't sound like one. no offense to you or engineers! ;-)

lucien2 · October 2002

it's all good. I underdstand your point. Guess I got a little testy because I felt like I was being cast as some boy-racer who fell for an ad.

bsvoller · October 2002

ummm... for what it's worth (and admittedly that may not be much) I for one found your discussion very interesting - and civil, which is greatly appreciated.

Thanks to all of you for bringing your expertise to this place where fella's like me can learn something in the process.

-brianV (who's been wondering which if any of these ad claims on power increases to believe, and is concerned that I might make a bad decision and break something in the process...)

idahodoug · October 2002

Colin,

I guess you and I are simply speaking different languages here. You mention that you can "park over grass without setting it on fire" as though the exhaust simply cannot put out much heat. Ludicrous. The fact is, you CAN ignite grass and dry foilage by parking atop it - the exhaust system easily can put out this much heat. Manufacturers spend considerable time on avoiding this, and most owner's manuals make mention of this specific danger. Where do you get this stuff? Ditto the "convection" comment. I'm not worried about convection heat under there at all - it's the radiant heat that is a factor.

Let me give you a real life example of exhaust heat and what it can do. Perhaps it will illustrate my point, which was and still is that exhaust heat can do damage and that exhaust temps can change and move around.

In 1999 I leased a new full size Montero as my company car. I also wanted to tow our boat with it, so I installed poly airbags in the rear coils for load leveling. I've installed 3 such systems already so I know what I'm doing. All goes well for a couple years of towing. One day, we're in a rush to beat daylight to a lake that has a steep pass and I'm holding a higher speed than normal up it. About halfway up the pass, I hear a bang and the truck sags on one side. I stop to investigate and discover the exhaust pipe has gotten hot enough to melt a hole in an airbag despite traveling 45 mph and the exhaust clearance being over 4 inches. In addition, there is a heat shield specifically installed for that airbag which came with the kit.

You do the math. An exhaust system that in normal heavy towing (the boat weighs 1000lbs more than the Montero is rated) for two years, including a 10,000 mile round trip from Idaho to Maine has not affected the airbag. Running hard one day, the exhaust system became extremely hot all the way back to the rear axle. I'd have to conclude that an exhaust system A) can get extremely hot,

can have moving hot spots, and C) that the heat is carried well back beyond the cat since this location is only a couple feet from my rear bumper. What would you conclude from this? Feel free to stick to your contention that exhaust system heat doesn't transfer heat into your drivetrain components, Colin. But you might want to spend some time under your car(s) looking at the half dozen or more heat shields strategically placed along its path before responding.

As it happens, I called the company and they sent me another heat shield (which I doubled up WITH the original) and a replacement air bag. Before the summer was over the same had happened again (another rush trip with a pass) and the problem was not resolved until I used header wrap to insulate a section of the pipe.

I see that you're practising the standard debate methodology of being unable to bring discourse to the table and choosing instead to attack the individual (engineer comment). Frankly, I'm not sure of your agenda here.

IdahoDoug

locke2c · October 2002

doug,

I think I'm done discussing this. Your aftermarket plastic air bag suspension has convinced me.

I am sorry that I didn't spend the time and effort to wordsmith a suitable technical response my first time. You clearly did spend a good deal of time framing your case. Going back to the beginning, let's just say that I stand firm that catback exhausts are not generally susceptible to the risks you describe.

oh-- also:

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=convection

that would be the process by which heat transfers over non-direct contact, like the air. conduction would be contact transfer.

-Colin

idahodoug · October 2002

Colin,

Actually, convection is not heat transfer from one object to another at all - such as our exhaust to nearby components. Convection refers to currents within either gas or liquid caused by heat rather than heat transfer. These currents (called convection currents) are simply movement of heat, not transfer. I noted this improper use in your earlier post, but did not address it other than to point out that radiant heat is the factor to concern ourselves with.

Your reference to my "plastic airbag suspension" is also duly noted. It's a popular mod in Australia not as well known on these shores. The AirLift product line is an excellent one, BTW.

IdahoDoug

lonewulf70 · October 2002

Hi...
I have just ordered from factory a TS wagon - and i am looking to replace the stock 15" wheels with something in the lines of probably 16's... does anyone have any recommendations for me?
i am a little confused about the offset - and what the minimum is i have to keep on this TS.
I see a lot of talk and stuff about the WRX and a little about the RS - but i guess the TS is just not that popular

i am patiently waiting for the delivery - i was told it might be as much as 8 weeks yet!

this will be my FIRST subaru - and i have been lurking in the Subie forums for a few months now...
hopefully someone here will be able to help me out?
and after wheels - is there a pref for tires too? ( i live in louisiana) , land of only two subaru dealers!
thanks in advance guys and gals
lonewulf70

locke2c · October 2002

RS and WRX stock-sized wheel & tire combinations will work for you. There are used ones for sale on the iClub all the time.

If you are looking at aftermarket wheels, stay near 16x7 +53mm offset and use a 205/55-16 tire. +48mm offset and below will put the tire & wheel too far outboard and you could experience rubbing with a heavy load, or during hard cornering.

Have fun!

-Colin

lonewulf70 · October 2002

thanks for the quick reply - do you have any idea on aftermarket wheels (new)?
louisiana has potholes so something strong is gonna be required.

lonewulf70

locke2c · October 2002

sorry-- I'm far out of touch on specifics. the Tirerack has a good selection thanks to the WRX's popularity and I'm sure there are many other vendors too.

With a 205/55-16 tire any quality wheel shouldn't have a problem assuming proper tire inflation. You could still hit a nasty pothole and bend a rim, sure. I've noticed a lot of people on the iClub are using Rota wheels, which are pretty inexpensive.

-Colin

lucien2 · October 2002

Rotas are all +48. Cheap and fairly light, but I have decided to give it a pass. On WRX sedans with the wider track and fender flares it's ok, but on wagons and older cars like mine, there are going to be issues with heavy loads or if you decide to lower the car with an aftermarket suspension. Prodrive rims are correct but $$. Depends on your budget. If you can find a set of pre-2001 RS rims you should get those. 53mm offset, 16x7, light and strong. Otherwise folks on i-Club sell WRX 16X6.5 rims all day long for $300-$400 a set.

lonewulf70 · October 2002

ok - if i go for those ex-wrx rims... what size of tire should i be going for , seeing how they are 16x6.5 ?
extended confuzion!

lonewulf70

barresa62 · October 2002

I have 48mm offset Gram Lite wheels 17 x 7.5 rim and a 225/45x17 Toyo T1-S tire on my WRX wagon. I'm at stock height. I have had a full load of passengers (4 adults & 1 child) and some gear with no rubbing at all. This was negotiated Seattle's hilly downtown streets. I've researched the lowering question w/my setup and it looks like I can go w/Prodrive springs that primarily lower the front, w/a small amount (less than an inch) of lowering in the rear.

Stephen

hgutstein · October 2002

that are ready to go, only 2K miles on them, asking 400+ shipping (shouldn't be much since you are next door..)

paisan · October 2002

I'm thinking of Digital only so that they match the HVAC Controls which will be in the same area of the dash. In all likeliness I'm gonna go with VDO guages that match the main dash panel. ATF Temp, Oil Pressure and Volts.

-mike

lucien2 · October 2002

Well there ya go, Stephen has put a lot of time into setting his WRX up. If you get 16" then use 205/55/16 tires. Otherwise run with Steve's advice.

ateixeira · October 2002

Welcome lonewulf70 and congrats. The TS is a steal, you're getting the same 2.5l engine and AWD as an Outback Limited for next nothing.

I agree that a take-off set of WRX wheels would be the first thing to consider. They run about $400, some times even with tires included. Edit: there's a set right there, nab 'em.

Then check tirerack.com and http://www.discounttiredirect.com/. I found rims from Discount that were on Special for $75 a pop - 16"x7" MB Motoring MB6. You don't have to spend a fortune. Plus, those are wider than WRX rims.

I weighed them and my unsprung weight was the same as with 15"x6" steelies (both with tires). $300 a set brand new. I got tires with them, plus lug nuts, locks, delivery, mounted and balanced, all that for $643 to my door.

I would not go with 17"s since potholes are a concern.

-juice

artgecko · October 2002

Tirerack has OEM WRX wheels for $79 each. They are not listed, but I wrote Luke and asked about them. I'm looking at getting a set for summer, occasional autocross, and maybe one track day.

I'm looking at Yoko ES100, but they don't come in 215/55/16, although the Kumho 712s do. The Yokos only come in 205/55/16 and 225/50/16. Will these fit under my stock wagon, od should I stick with the 205s?

BTW, Stephen. Remember when I steared you and Austin to the guy with the clear side markers? Are yours OK? Mine both had the lenses pop off this past week. I'd have thought vandals, but there is no evidence.

Steve

kens · October 2002

Only $79 each? Wow, that's a lot less than I expected. I wonder if they sell the 17" pressure cast wheels.

Ken

lonewulf70 · October 2002

thanks for all the responses guys.
i do appreciate all the advice i can get from y'all!

i am trying to get away from what i have heard are not so good stock tires (RE92's) - is this correct? dont expect to run a lot of snow though...

i am not sure i want the ex-wrx rims as i woudl like something a little more distinctive - not saying that they arent - but heck - just about everyone out there probably has a set!

i did see some wolfracer rims - but they are form the uk - and woud cost me 400 to ship them!

i will keep a looking on tirerack and discounttire.com also....i still have atleast 8 weeks til i get my TS.
has anyone had any experience with discounttire (or one of their local places)?
thanks again for the advice!

lonewulf70

locke2c · October 2002

no, the RE92 is not a particularly good performance all-season. one of the favorites in that type of tire is the Dunlop SP5000.

-Colin

Subaru Crew - Modifications II

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles