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Rotten Egg smell exhaust
wsommariva
Member Posts: 157
2000 Jetta VR6. In the mornings with a cold
engine I get a very strong, very bad rotten egg
smell. Anyone know what the cause and fix is?
engine I get a very strong, very bad rotten egg
smell. Anyone know what the cause and fix is?
0
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Ideally (as far as combustion goes anyway) gasoline would be pure octane (C8H18) and would burn 100% cleanly, producing CO2 and H2O via the reaction: C8H18 + 17 O2 => 8 CO2 + 9 H2O. Gas is never pure octane though, and besides the deliberate additives, it contains sulfur compounds. Sometimes these burn in an "2H + S" kind of reaction and produce H2S, and sometimes the sulfur burns with the O2 and produces SO2 (sulfur dioxide) and SO (sulfur monoxide). The H2S is the stinky stuff, while SO and SO2 combine with water to make H2SO3 and H2SO4, or sulfurous and sulfuric acid (components in acid rain).
All a catalytic converter really does is "finish up" the burning of various un-finished combustion compounds, typically adding an oxygen atom or two. This gets rid of some smog-causing compounds, especially partially burnt hydrocarbons, at the expense of increasing other acid-rain-causing compounds (the sulfur oxides, and also nitrogen oxides).
The US government is cranking up the pressure to reduce sulfur levels in our gasoline, to reduce both H2S and SO/SO2 emissions. This will cost you at the pump, but save you at the grocery store (less crop damage, more fish surviving to the freezer, etc.) and doctor's office (healthier lungs -- free-floating SO2 gas turns into sulfuric acid when it hits the lining in your throat and lungs, ugh) so it is kind of a wash. In the meantime, you can indeed try different brands of gasoline, as different crude oils have different amounts of sulfur to start with, and some refineries remove more or less than others.
As for producing H2S instead of SO2: in general this means your car is running on a rich fuel mixture (less O2, more gas => sulfur has to combine with the H's rather than the O's as there are not enough O's to go around). Cars are of course supposed to run rich while cold. How rich is another question -- if it is too rich, you can get carbon deposits, which can foul the sparkplugs or get inside the cylinder and cause knocking and dieseling. This can occur if the emissions system (oxygen sensors etc.) are not working right. On the other hand, it could just be that you have a highly-sulfurous gasoline and everything is working the way it should.
(Octane is also easy to remember, since after butane they just count up in Greek: heptane, hexane, septane, octane, nonane, decane. What was 11 again, undecane? Twelve would be duodecane. Shortly after that you get into kerosene and jet fuel. :-) )
Egg in the muffler? Is that a variant of the old banana in the tailpipe trick?
That was from Beverly Hills Cop right?
I'll take a sausage with my eggs please.
In the USA, gasoline is sold by "R+M / 2" method (look at the various inspection stickers on a gas pump sometime, they have the date of inspection and certification that it meets all kinds of standards, etc.). The R, or RON, is the "research octane number" and the M, or MON, is the "motor octane number". These are two standardized tests (using a special standardized engine) to see how any given gasoline performs. When you buy "higher octane" gas it really just means it performs better on that standardized test engine (you then have to hope that this means it also performs better in your actual car engine...).
The big desirable component in gasoline itself is not actually pure "octane" (C8H18, but with all the C's strung out in a straight line) but rather something called "2,2,4 trimethylpentane". This is also C8H18, just arranged differently. I drew one out and will see if it gets through town hall unmunched:
H
H HCH H H H
| | | | |
H -- C -- C -- C -- C -- C -- H
| | | | |
H HCH H HCH H
H H
As for "oxygenated" gas, at least here in CA, it has to be one of a few specific formulations. One uses something called "methyl tertiary butyl ether" (MTBE), which I dare not even attempt to draw. :-) The "ether" part is what makes it an oxygenate. An ether has an oxygen atom in the middle of the carbon chain, if I remember right. ("Plain" anaesthetic ether, as seen on M*A*S*H TV for instance, is probably the best-known ether. As they said on the show, it is explosive. But then, so is gasoline.) The other oxygenate is ethanol -- ordinary drinking alcohol. Alcohols are just regular carbon-chain molecules (just like methane, ethane, butane, etc.) but with an OH group stuck on the end -- there's your oxygen atom again:
H H
| |
H -- C -- C -- OH
| |
H H
From ethane, you get ethanol, just as from methane, you get methanol -- wood alcohol -- and from propane you get propanol, or rubbing alcohol ("iso"propanol anyway). (Once you get a long carbon chain, you can start attaching things in the middle instead of at the end, so chemists have a whole naming system to tell where you put which atoms.)
In order to get the sulfur smell, there has to be sulfur in there in the first place. Whether oxygenated gas is more likely to produce H2S (vs SO2/SO3), given the sulfur in it, I do not know (out of my chem depth here).
Guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
Well, maybe a lesson has been learned, but I doubt if it will be retained.
Have a 99 Altima and smell is not only when it's cold, but when it's warm, but not when it's windy. There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to it.
Of course, it won't happen when I take the car in for service. I've heard from dealers that it is high sulfur content in gas, but think it's a load of malarky plus sulfur, eggs, etc. because more cars would have it then.
Replaced catalytic converter and change gas all the type. It still happens.
Do you have any other suggestions? Again, I ask, if it's the gas, why doesn't every car smell?
Manufacturer says there's a problem across the board, but there is no mechanical defect with my car. Service guy said technicians don't know how to fix it YET.
Are there any others who are nauseated or think this smell is unacceptable who would like to pursue other options? Manufacturer and dealer have prevented me from doing Lemon Law, they cancelled my appointment which I needed within a certain mileage, timeframe. I'm consulting an attorney, but need others out there with Nissans or other cars that have this smell to help.
Please let me know if you're nose has had it with rotten egg/exhaust smell inside the car! Cars should be made to run with the fuel available in your area. New cars should not have this problem without a remedy.
Any suggestions, volunteers, ideas would be helpful for congress and/or lawyers.
Thanks for continuing to talk about this. There is a problem.
By the way, did you hear about the gasout in April to complain about the high price of gas? It's April 7-9. Please don't buy gas on those days and hopefully prices will come down like they did a few years ago.
Take action!
You are right, if it is the gas, then why is it not happenning in all cars?
I have read somewhere that it could be a glitch in the computer program that controls the GAS/AIR ratio mixture.
I think most of the MBTE was used in CA-maybe in 20 years the CDC can do a cancer morbidity study tied to water sources in CA and determine how many people bit the dust because some pol determined MBTE had to be used in CA.
convertible every time her or me drive it
and pull into the garage we will turn off
the engine and close the garage door but when
we open our doors this horrible
musty smell comes from beneath the car is it the
cattilatic converter or do all bmw's do this???
please e-mail me
A number of conditions, or problems can cause this symptom. A GOOD & TRUSTWORTHY shop or mechanic should be able to run an exhaust analysis & discover the cause. The best person to talk to about this is the mechanic who deals with this problem often. I have also found a couple of customers who have ultra sensitive sense of smell & recommended they simply try to avoid the offending situation when ever possible. (allow a closed garage to ventilate)
I have not been able to find any industry bulletins indicating fuel type or content causing this problem. No fuel co. representative, I am acquainted with, will admit to a fuel/exhaust odor production problem.
MTBE is "methyl tertiary butyl ether", which is made from a toxic-waste byproduct that occurs when refining crude oil for gasoline, diesel, kerosene, etc. Ethanol is just "good ol' drinkin' alky" -- the active ingredient in beer, wine, Jim Beam, and so on. "Corn squeezin's."
Either MTBE or ethanol can be mixed in with regular gasoline, and either one causes it to burn slightly differently in an internal combustion engine. The difference, as far as Iowa goes, is that ethanol is made from -- yes -- corn! (Hence the nickname above.) Iowa farmers grow a lot of corn. If gasoline is going to contain ethanol, Iowa farmers can grow even more corn. Great for Iowa, not so great for other people's wallets: ethanol costs more per gallon than gasoline, and more per gallon than MTBE for that matter. This is where the subsidies come in.
Personally, I tend to be in favor of letting things cost what they cost, and not using toxic waste byproducts in places where they wind up in our drinking water, and that sort of thing. I would not mind paying $10/gal for gasoline and not dying of cancer, vs paying $2/gal and dying, or paying $2/gal with ethanol plus $8 more in taxes per average gallon as used by the average guy. (I exaggerate for effect here -- ethanol additives are only very slightly more expensive than MTBE additives.)
The cancer link for MTBE is not yet reasonably certain, but the fact that MTBE makes water undrinkable (it smells and tastes horrible) is quite certain.
Attorney says only way to handle it now (since Lemon Law doesn't apply anymore because of timing) is to get a signed statement by a mechanic who will also testify.
Can anyone get this? If so, let's do something together. I heard it could cost $6,000 to sue a manufacturer and you may not get results.
If your car is less than 1 yr. old and have less than 12,000 miles, keep taking it in to dealer to have it repaired, even if it's every day! Then document it and start proceeding under lemon law.
I'm seriously looking at other cars now. Honda's smell too.
See you in Sedans.
Good luck.
say thet they can not repriduce it in the shop.
It is pronounced during the winnter. My garanty runs out in Nov. WEhat is your advice.
Thanks.
Siamak
Kristina/co host Our Turn
Try changing brands of gas.
Will be interesting to see what happens when I have my 2000 Jetta inspected in October, 2001.
To be on the safe side I always ask the dealer to check for the smell so if I do need repairs after the 2 year warranty runs out, I'll have the situation documented.
Why heat shields are made out of metal so cheap, it rusts through after only a few years, and somehow costs a fortune to replace is beyond me.
Someone has to do something about this.......
I've noticed that my tailpipe has been building up with black(carbon) soot which pushes me to believe that the engine is not burning efficiently and I am losing improperly burned fuel out of my tailpipe. Ive owned three vehicles before my Jetta and I've never had a problem with odour nor with black at the tailpipe.
Has anyone else noticed if this symptom accompanies the sulphur smell from their "special" vehicle?
It is true that some of the things they do to gas regionally can make cars perform differently. However, if what they told you is true, every single VW that goes to your gas station would have this problem, and possibly others as well. Kinda doubt that.
Got another dealer that can give a second opinion? You also might try their customer service line.
liter V6 FI engine. My problem is that my car
sometimes gets that rotten egg smell. I had my catalytic converter replaced a while back in order to pass DEQ, but it still smells bad on a
consistent basis. Also, it runs really, REALLY bad when I do not warm it up for at least 5 minutes. If I just get in the car in the morning and drive, it seems like I have NO power at all. It will take about 10 seconds just to get up to 20 MPH. The funny thing about this is if I get in the car without warming it up, and then floor it, I get a HUGE surge of power which makes the tires peel out. After that though, it goes back to being slow until I drive it for about 10 minutes. I have spoken with a few of my friends that know "something" about cars, and they seems to feel that it's my mass airflow sensor. If you have some advice for me, I would greatly appreciate it.
Rjt3, make sure and check out the new Villager topics for experienced answers. Good luck.
I do not see an end to this situation in the near future.
Anyone else with this problem, please contact ConsumerAffairs.com. They have taken a great interest in the problem and have an article posted on their site about it.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/manufacturers.htm
They suggest Lemon Law action immediately if your car qualifies for this.
Thanks.