Pontiac Bonneville General Maintenance and Repair

mfahey1 · December 2002

Does anyone know when GM switched to the troublesome composite intake manifold and has it been redesigned to eliminate the leakage problems and if so, what year got the redesign?

gmlover1 · December 2002

That,s where it is in my Buick.

ssurgeont · January 2003

In regard to remote keyless entry intermittent problems,at least GM.I have had the same problems and I have tried replacing the batteries but I found that by using a pencil eraser to clean copper contacts it started working right away.Pry apart w/fingernails ,change battery if you haven't already and clean right under where the buttons are.

antelope182 · January 2003

Thanks for the input. After running into three Bonnevilles with this problem we figured it was a relatively common one, but were so impressed with the car otherwise, we decided to purchase one (although not the one which greeted us with the deluge). We know the one we purchased has at least a small leak. Thanks to your info I will be very specific when I take the car to the service dept.

luvmybonne · January 2003

I own a 1996 SSEi, lately I have experienced a sluggish responce when I accelerate. I had the motor checked and all was well.
I need some suggestions to assist me in pin pointing the problem.

theiceman · January 2003

Congrats on your purchase - share some details in the main board.

See you there.

ice

slicksickwilly · January 2003

Hi All,
Just bought a new 02 SE a few months ago and it has about 3k on it.. I cannot seem to get the interior to defog in cold weather.. The front windshield is fine but the pass and driver windows will only defog a little and the back 2 windows not at all.. I think im working the climate control right (defrost/high fan/outside air). Any suggestion appreciated

mfahey1 · January 2003

My first thought would be to run some good quality fuel injector cleaner through it. Make sure the air cleaner is in reasonable shape. Also, there have been many posts about the spark wires going bad at 50-60,000 miles so you may want to consider getting a good set of those. The consensus seems to be that the aftermarket ones aren't any good. It might also be time to clean out the throttle body. Lots of relatively minor things that it could be.

jw4gm · January 2003

21k very enjoyable miles. Last week while driving at night, I flipped the lights to high beam and the engine quit. I shifted to "N", restarted engine, shifted back to "D" and everything fine. I repeated this cycle three more times with the same results. After arriving home, I shut the car off, but all accessories (blower, exterior lights, radio) remained on as if the ignition was in the run position, except the engine did shut off. The symptoms repeated when I went for service, but only once, and the service folks found no faults codes of any kind. They returned the car "unable to duplicate customer complaint". I will pursue the problem with dealer management next week, but if any fine Bonneville owner has experienced this or similar problems, please post your experience and advice or recommendations. Thanks.

jimpap · January 2003

to slick 222 about your 96 bonn the problem is your fuel regulater or throttle control senser i had the exact problem with my 92 myfix was the fuel reg

luvmybonne · January 2003

Jimpap and Jw4gm, I will have those items checked Monday.

Again, thanks

daled2 · January 2003

I bought a 2002 in November, I have that same problem. Especially the rear windows. Must be some kind of design issure? The other problem I have, if it's a problem, is I get 15 mpg city. That seems like low mileage, do others get the same fuel economy as I getting?

evandro · January 2003

I got an '02 SLE and I get between 22 and 24MPG commuting and between 27 and 29MPG on the highway. It hasn't given me any beef, not having to take it in for service since I bought it 15 months and 16000mls. ago.

I did notice that the rear window defogger draws a considerable amount of current , as the voltage drops by about 1V when idling, but it remains at around 14V when cruising when it's on.

mfahey1 · January 2003

is underpowered on these cars. It takes a long time compared to other cars I have had to do the job.
If your city driving includes short trips with the engine warming up much of the time, you're lucky to get 15. My wife drives our Caravan 1 1/2 miles to school and I have seen our mileage as low as 11 for a car rated at 19.

bill223 · January 2003

I have a '98 bonneville with just 36K miles on it(warantee expired as car is now 4 1/2yrs old). I am original owner. Car has been great up to now. Just had to pay $1000 in repairs due to coolant leak from gaskets, waterpump, intake manifold. Including the intake manifold rotting from the inside. There were no symtoms until car had no heat. Immediately brought car to dealer for what I thought would be simply thermostat problem. car needed to have new waterpump, and new manifold. The worst part, is that the dealer says that some coolant may have gotten into combustion chamber and could cause damage to rings, bearings, cat covert. Needless to say I'm a little upset about this car requiring such repairs at 36K miles. Car has had proper maitenance including dealer oil change just 2 months ago. Has anyone had similar problems?? Does anyone have tips on how to deal with GM, re:1-800-PMCARES people? I already have a complaint in to see what expenses I can get reimbursed.

mfahey1 · January 2003

No tips, just sympathy. Personally, I think this whole issue is a disgrace that GM needs to remedy, especially since the newer cars are starting to show up with the same problem. I just wish that GM people were lurking here and would respond.

imidazol97 · January 2003

Good luck Bill223. Let us know if GM steps up to the plate.

I had problem in 98 LeSabre 3800 at 70000 mi. GM told me warranty expired. Service manager said he'd seen a lot of these. Customer noService at GM plain rude and short. This to a 7 Buicks in-a-row owner, last two LeSabres. Had planned to buy Park Avenue next.

I did buy a 2003 3800 LeSabre -- discounts + wife wanting different car overcame reluctance due to GM's not supporting their flaws. I won't have GM card discount to cash in after this. I'll buy used from now on. If I'm going to have to pay for repair of flaws, at least I won't be paying new car price. 3 yr. 36000 is a joke as a warranty period.

Problem and handling so far by GM really has hurt their image in my eyes. I'm one of their younger LeSabre buyers--I plan to buy several more cars before I am too old to drive.

GM needs to wake up. A $250 credit toward a new car or parts or service at that time would have satisfied me. Now if they do ever cover it post facto, I want the full cost of the plenum and labor (I'll pay for the water pump at 74,000.)

Friend's Bonneville (98) had leak into engine. Stopped engine. Had lifter problem with noise right after that. I never did hear how much that cost them.

luvmybonne · January 2003

On a 96 bonneville SSEI, can I clean the throttle body or is this a mechanic only job. If I can, How?

alcan · January 2003

Remove the ducting from the throttle body, thin snap ring securing the fine mesh screen, then the screen. Be careful not to damage the screen. Block the throttle open or have someone hold it open. Liberally spray the throttle body bore and throttle plate with air intake cleaner (NOT carb cleaner), scrub with an old toothbrush, mop up with clean wipers or paper towels. The heaviest accumulation is usually on the backside of the throttle plate. Reassemble. It might run rough for a few seconds when restarted until the cleaner has passed through the engine. Done deal.

bonnyblues · January 2003

I have a 2002 SSEi that has had an annoying chassis vibration since new. I've checked out web posts and this does not appear to be unusual. The symptons are that the vibration can be felt through the steering, seat and floor at speeds above 100kph and is very noticeable at 115kph. It is intermittent, ie. gets more or less severe over relatively short distances, even in a straight line, but is always present. This particular vehicle has 17 inch wheels with Goodyear RS-A's.

The dealer initially rebalanced the tires... no difference. I asked for a road test with me in the car and the dealer agreed that I had a 'valid complaint'. After checking the front end and repositioning a suspected tire on the rim, the dealer concluded that all tires needed to be replaced. Same brand/model new screened tires were installed... same old vibration!

Before I get into round three with the dealer, has anyone been able to cure this apparently not uncommon problem? I already know about TSB 00-03-10-007A; however, the dealer may be reluctant to conduct such an exhaustive analysis. I'd like to cut to the chase!... if there is one.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

imidazol97 · January 2003

What kind of steps does TSB 00-03-10-007A
go through? Could you or someone post a copy?

I've always found Michelins fixed vibration on
H-bodies I've had that could be spin-balanced
out. I put XH michelins on one. Another I put
X-Ones on more recently. It had Generals OE
that didn't roll round after 40K.

montanafan · January 2003

Been told this bulletin is the procedure and form for ordering screened tires on new Bonnevilles with 17" wheels and under 12,000 miles that may require them. If you dealer installed screen tires, they must have already followed it.

bonnyblues · January 2003

See J Milberg's post #515 for details.

The worksheet indicated 1/2 hour was spent looking at the front end.

rbenton · January 2003

GM went to a composite ie plastic intake manifold in 1996, when GM revised 3800 series engine into its current guise. I am not aware of any factory revision to the manifold. Also don't forget about the crappy plastic upper and lower intake gasket seals that also rot out and leak coolant into the engine and may cause total engine failure. Another trouble spot is the plastic egr value line made of plastic that goes the water passages and into the intake manifold this is another source of coolant leakage. All in all GM has really screwed the consumer with this nasty and growing set of problems with DexCool and plastic intake manifolds.
Hope this helps.

imidazol97 · January 2003

Is it better to use the original antifreeze types rather than DexCool? rbenton mentioned that DexCool has caused problems. What reason is there to replace DexCool with DexCool at 70K and up?

Does DexCool types cause more problems than original type antifreezes? Is it possible to flush and get all DexCool out and use earlier type antifreeze? Would it cause more or less trouble with seals and intake manifold water passages?

bill223 · January 2003

Well I've learned what everyone else has learned about GM and customer service on this coolant leak issue. Jean at GM customer relations has told me they would not reimburse me a dime on the $1,000 repair bill(the car only has 36k miles but is 4 1/2 yrs old). She states she has never heard of this problem before!! See should get on the internet sometime. I have heard there is a TSB on this problem. Is there? Does anyone have a TSB number or a copy of it?
This all makes me just want to run down to the dealer and buy another GM product!! This bonneville was my first and is now my last GM product.

mlm4 · January 2003

The TSB mentioned above (00-03-10-007) is now in revision C and it curiously has been changed drastically. No longer does it describe the long involved procedure for correcting the vibration problem, but only describes the ordering process for screened tires (as mentioned in an earlier post).

I too have had no luck with this same vibration problem on my 2000 SSEi. They replaced a "worn" tie-rod end, but no improvement. They balanced all four wheels (also did a road-force balance), and match-mounted a couple of them as well, but still no improvement. I would suspect the tires themselves, but from what I hear, new tires may not fix the problem either. The dealer has not offered to replace them...yet. They were pretty responsive at first trying to help me out, but now I think they are ignoring me and hoping I might go away quietly. Both the tech and service manager (who both test drove the car separately) kind of suggested that this is a design flaw that they cannot fix (without actually saying so much). One owner some time ago posted here that it was a problem with the hubs, that the stud runout was out of spec. I have twice asked the dealer to check this and they have so far refused to do what I think is a pretty easy check.

It's frustrating for an otherwise good car, but it seems that most cars these days have some sort of design flaws that plague their owners (not that that makes it right!).

imidazol97 · January 2003

I had a hub on a GM card long ago that was out just under the tolerance amount. After 50K found
it myself using a gauge and rotating the studs.

Sometimes vibration was there, sometimes not, on different days. Moving tires around made it lesser and greater. Very strange.

mfahey1 · January 2003

To anyone thinking of adding oil to their supercharger, make sure you pack all around it with rags, paper towels or whatever. The bottle you buy at the dealer has no provisions for actually getting the oil into the little fill hole so you are just squirting it in the general direction and hoping most of it gets in.
Per the owner's manual, check it when cold and add to the bottom of the fill hole.

pturner1 · January 2003

Also, you may want to check it more often than the book says.
Mine started getting a little louder (checking it when the book said), so I took it to the dealer for a check-up. They said the oil was scorched. They replaced the supercharger at 65k. The part is $2500, but with the extended warranty it cost me $50.00.
I now have 76k on the car and that has been the only problem I have encountered. No rattles, shakes or anything.
What a great car.
2000 SSEi. Delivered 01-25-00

sonnyb3 · January 2003

I have a 96 Bonnevile Se and have tried to replace the drivers side side marker bulb with no success. I feel stupid since I have changed struts, clutches, valve covers, water pumps, fuel tanks, etc.. but cant figure out this bulb. DUH!!
You cannot get it from underneath. I follow the owners manual directions; remove the two bolts on the inner side of the headlamp assemby and the assembly slides out. Wrong. It moved but there seems to be more inside and unreachable that needs to be removed. AM I missing something. Plese help if you have done this. Feel free to e-mail. Staron1@att.net

renegaid3 · January 2003

I own a 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SE with 54000 miles on it . This past week I have developed a coolant leak somewhere on the drivers side of the car , under the throttle body. I cannot see exactly where the leak is coming from , and it seems to happen mostly the first time I run the car for the day . After that the leak seems to diminish. I have been told from a dealer that it is probably an intake manifold leak , either at the base of the plenum, or where the throttle body bolts up to the plenum/manifold. This looks like a major design flaw to me , and was wondering if there is anything going on , from GM to remedy this problem.Please send me an e-mail if anyone has had the same problem with this year or newer car.Thanks ,Bill

mfahey1 · January 2003

Pturner1, you are absolutely correct. I waited until 28,000 to check and found it low. The dealer said they added several ounces but when I checked afterwards, it was still low and I added at least 2 more ounces. I'm hoping the internal seals aren't trashed and leaking oil into the body of the supercharger.

jeffbog · January 2003

My wife's 2001 Grand Prix was just repaired. The leak was coming from the upper plenum on the intake. Never noticed until warming up the car one day. Coolant was left on the driveway. Was told that it leaks generally when cold. Due to the location, there was no oil contamination. Changed oil anyway. Car serviced at 28K. My 2001 Bonneville with 21K has the same problem. Need to get it in for warranty service. I definitely am concerned that this will happen again in 20K or so.

adf1 · January 2003

mfahey1 & evandro - The right GM part #'s are as following:
1. If you have the filter enclosure (most cars don't) then you need the whole "enchilada" and the # is 25669930. I got it @ GMPartsDirect for $38 including(!) shipping.
2. If you have the enclosure (you see a black plastic frame inside, when you open the cover) then you need the filter only, # 25654414, ~$14 @ GMPartsDirect.
I personally drive daily through an area with rather "unpleasent" smell. Since I installed that filter MY LIFE HAS CHANGED!
Don't buy it at the dealership, they charge ~$34 for the filter only.....

evandro · January 2003

Thanks a bunch for the part #. Is it only me or do you also think that it's close to impossible to find something at http://gmpartsdirect.com without the part #? ;^)

slicksickwilly · January 2003

I have a 2002 SE. I have been reading the horror stories on this board and others about the design flaw of the intake manifold being made out of plastic and eventually leaking and in some cases getting into the engine and causing major damage! Does the 02's inherent this problem? I would have never bought the car if thats whats in store.. You would think Pontiac would have taken care of this problem by now.. Concerned in NY

evandro · January 2003

I got my '02 SLE with just 17000mls back from the dealer yesterday fixing it. I'm also wondering whether this a fix for good or just for the next 17000mls... :^(

Does anybody know if the part # changed for the good part, if it exists? The part # of the replacement was 17113136.

I've also noticed that the gasket (part # 17113137) was not itemized in the replaced parts list. Shouldn't it have been? I asked the service guy and he told me that 17113136 is probably a kit that includes the gasket...

Does anybody have a TSB about this issue?

TIA

mfahey1 · January 2003

What has people's experience with the battery life? I'm coming up on 3 years and am starting to wonder if I should replace it as a precaution. I should say that this is the best starting car I have ever owned. A touch of the key and it's running. The reason I have been thinking about it is that there is now electric everything on these cars and I would assume that has an effect on the life of the battery.

montanafan · January 2003

With the battery on the 2000+ Bonnevilles under the rear seat, they shouldn't be effected as much by cold and should have longer lifes in my mind.

mlm4 · January 2003

Regarding the supercharger oil: I was under the impression that the s/c was a sealed system and that it normally isn't necessary to add oil. If it was low, was it always low, or does that indicate a more serious problem? I have not checked mine yet.

If you e-mail GMPartsDirect with a specific part you are looking for (give them as much information about the vehicle and part as you can), they will look it up for you and e-mail you the part number. Worked for me.

I agree that since the battery is under the rear seat (and inside the passenger compartment) it may last longer. Heat kills batteries, and under the hood it is very hot. Most batteries these days should last five years, although down here in Florida it is often much less than that.

renegaid3 · January 2003

Good news for me , I discovered that the gasket between the manifold and the throttle body was bad. The gasket was 14 bucks and I fixed it myself last night. The only thing I am worried about is that the dealer said that entrapped air in my cooling system could damage the under side of the intake manifold. I bled all the air out of the top of the thermostat housing bleeder, and hope that this will be enough. At least it wasn't the whole manifold job. I will keep my fingers crossed as to when the hammer will fall on this part. Does anyone know of a surefire way to ensure that all of the air is out of the system.
I hope this solves this one for me . It only took about an hour or so to repair. Thanks , Bill

evandro · January 2003

FWIW, the only TSB about this doesn't apply to the current engines. As you can see here, the TSB recommends replacing the lower intake manifold as well. However, the current engine has a different one that supposedly fixes the issue, as you can see here.

I did confirm with the service assistant that the upper manifold # 17113136 does include the gaskets between it and the lower manifold and between it and the throttle body.

What gives me the creeps is that, unless the original part was from a bad lot, just replacing the upper manifold doesn't address the issue... I was lucky that this time the coolant leaked outside the engine, for had it been inside we'd be talking about a potentially severe engine damage. :^(

theiceman · January 2003

The under-seat location does more than protect the battery from extreme temperatures, all that additional road crud, shocks/vibrations are dampened between the axles, etc. My Bonnie was built in May '00 so the battery is coming up on 3 years old, this is its 3rd winter - and it's been a brutally cold January here.

Heck, I saw -30°C (-22°F) on the Bonnie's thermometer for the first time ever just last week! Started first time like a charm. I wouldn't even think of replacing a battery that can handle that at 3 years. Perhaps before next winter though...

the (well-named) iceman

mfahey1 · January 2003

That's all good to hear. I'll stop laying awake at nights wondering if my battery will croak at any moment. I did have the original on our older Caravan that gave absolutely no warning whatsoever. It died one day, graveyard dead, and you couldn't even start the car with a jump.

ohhawk · February 2003

Just had this problem repaired with mine as well....approx. $250. 2000 Bonneville SLE with 50,000 miles. Get it fixed quickly to avoid leakage internally. Ironically 2 days later I notice small noise in steering column when turning left at slow speeds. I've read about others with this problem and a tech bulletin has been issued on this. Inexpensive piece in steering shaft replaced and some lubrication....$140. These are the first items I've had to spend money on since purchasing the car new. Overall quite satisfied with the "new" Bonneville look and ride but I expect not to see the Service Dept. for quite awhile.

mfahey1 · February 2003

Does anyone put anything on these as a preservative and if so, what do you recommend?

oldram51 · February 2003

Finally replaced the plenum on my 98 Bonneville with 128,000 miles. I know the problem started a long time ago but for many reasons I just kept adding more Dex-Cool. A family member who teaches auto mechanics helped me do the job saving me alot of money. Depending on what mechanic you ask some say the Dex-cool is the real culprit with this problem others say the gasket material was insufficient for the job. The ironic part is that the Dex-cool does less harm to the engine if it gets in than regular anti freeze would. There was a large amount of sludge in the plenum and the next piece under it, so we had to remove and clean that also and replace the 3 gaskets for it. We did computer testing on the motor after the job and there doesn't appear to be any damage done to the motor from having the Dex-cool invasion. Bottom line for me on this issue is GM needs to get sore ears from complaints about this. The parts guy at the dealership we bought our kit from said they just received a shipment of about 60 units, and that they did 2-3 Plenum jobs a day. That's at one dealership!!!!! They need to admit the problem and step up to the plate and do a recall.

montanafan · February 2003

Dex-Cool can't be the problem because 1995 3.8s may suffer the degradation and Dex-Cool wasn't introduced until 1996. Its not gasket problem either because the gaskets do not leak on the manifolds with the degradation (95-98). (But the gasket can leak on a 2000-2001, although some dealers appear to be replacing the upper manifold also.) And you never hear of the problem in the Grand Prix which also used the 3800 Series II (I can't recall ever seeing a post in the Grand Prix threads here at Edmunds or the Grand Prix Sites). SO it appears that some combination of factors that occurs in some cars causes the failure. And as a non-safety issue it would be unlikly that a recall would ever happen.

But the $550 you spent for the two manifolds and the gasket will keep you car going for a long time hopefully.

john325 · February 2003

It seems like the one year you didn't include in your post was 1999. I have a '99 SE. Is this year also susceptible to the plenum problem? I have about 65k miles on it, w/ no problems so far. Crossing my fingers...

John B.

Pontiac Bonneville General Maintenance and Repair

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles