Pontiac Bonneville General Maintenance and Repair

oldram51 · February 2003

I don't have any facts to back up my claims other than a pontiac parts man and a couple mechanics. But I do believe that it was gasket failure on my 98 we just can't prove whether it was the Dex-cool or the gasket material itself to blame. You would like to think that a major company would stand behind a flaw that sees 2-3 repairs a day at one dealership? It shouldn't matter if it's not a safety issue. Are you aware of any differences between the bonneville and GP's that could explain the problems with the bonnevilles?

evandro · February 2003

In the newsgroup alt.autos.gm you'd be able to find that this dreaded issue was present in all applications of the 3800, including the Montana and the GP and also under other badges, as the Impala and the Park Ave.

montanafan · February 2003

Evandro-Which issue? My point is- We are talking about 3 different coolant leaks causes. (And the Montana never used a 3.8L engine. The last 3.8 GM Van was the 1995 TransSpot which did not use the Series II that went into the Bonneville.)

oldram51--If yours was a gasket leak then why did you repalce $500 worth of Lower Intake Manifold and Upper Intake Manifold (Plenum)? Again my question is--why is the majority of the posts Bonneville related when the engines went in to other cars and are the same as the Grand Prix? Could it be the water in Kansas (GP) is better the water in Missouri/Mich (Bonn)?

John325--The 1999 Manifolds are not the same as the 1995-1998, so the degradation issue is not there. And don't remember any posts in quanity about gasket leaks.

Lets try some math. I believe Pontiac sells less then 100,000 Bonnevilles as year, of which some (20%?) are supercharged so do not use the Upper Plenum. 1998 Grand Prix sales were about 130,000+ of which some were 3.1 V6s and some were supercharged. 4years at 100,000 and one year at 130,000 is 530,000 (Very High). 2,800 Pontiac dealers. 300 work days per year. 3(+) years of repairs. A 2-3 per day average dosen't look sustainable.

Just raises more questions then it answers.

evandro · February 2003

I'm talking about the coolant leakage caused by something wrong in the intake manifold area. It's an old issue that crept in the Series II (see TSB). There's no TSB covering more recent cars which use a different lower intake manifold. Yet, this alone doesn't seem to fix the problem for good (see this mechanic's opinion here and here ).

The proof that there's still something wrong in the design of this otherwise remarkable engine is in my '02 Bonneville having the upper intake manifold replaced at just 17000mls because of coolant leakage. Unfortunately, I'm not alone, with 2 or 3 other participants in this forum having had the same issue in the past month or so.

Yes, it's a $500 service, but only IF the coolant doesn't leak inside the engine, when a new engine is in order: a $1500 to $2500 service.

It's a problem that GM is trying to sweep under the carpet as the problem does exist, yet no TSB has been issued. The reason is the math you made: GM's profits would add up to a loss. Until it's addressed for good, it's OUR loss.

montanafan · February 2003

You need to reread my post and your references, I think there is some confussion. The "something wrong in the intake manifold" is the degradation of the Upper Intake Manifold in the EGR area. It effects Series IIs from 1995-1998. "There's no TSB covering more recent cars" because the part was redesigned and the problem dosen't effect them. "see the mechanic's opinion" clealy points out the changes, he says nothing about the changes not fixing the problem.

"The proof..is my..", your Upper Manifold was replaced for an external leak not degradation that effected the 1995-1998s. I have seen friends who had their 2000-2001s fixed with just a gasket. So therfore your Upper Manifold MUST have been bad.

Leak 1- Degradation 1995-1998
Leak 2-Upper Intake Manifold Gasket
Leak 3-Upper Intake Manifold

It is possible oldram51 has discovered leak 4 but hasen't posted enough infomation.

GM's 36/36 warranty will catch most of the 2000-2002s with Gasket or Manifold problems (3/50 for Gasket and 7/70 for Manifold in California Emissions Warranty states).

And if it was just a question of profits, wouldn't GM be better doing a $500 repair then offering $3,000+ in rebates?

Since none of us designned or built our cars, it is the age old question of when does it stop being the manufacturers problem and become the owners.

ADDITION: you added a second link while I was responding. Ian talks about what I have been saying about the changed lower manifold, and what it should do. And he goes on to talk about the external leak which as I have been saying is a different leak on your car.

evandro · February 2003

If the redesigned lower manifold solves all the problems, then why did my Bonneville leaked? The dealer didn't write the cause of the leak in the receipt, so I think that neither I nor you can say that it wasn't a warped upper intake manifold. If the thinner EGR pipe just decreases the frequency of warpage, who's to say that the new manifold in my car won't warp again when it's out of warranty? I can't answer these questions, neither can you and GM hasn't answered them to my satisfaction.

Come on, it is not acceptable that a 15 month old car with just 17000mls on it has any engine problem. Whatever problem it was, manifold warpage or gasket, it's just not acceptable that it hasn't been addressed once and for all since '95.

Why can't the Series II be as bullet-proof as the Series I or as most GM transmissions? Why shouldn't I expect the same level of quality in the Series II as in these two examples?

It's about customer satisfaction. My bottom line becomes GM's when the time comes to replace the Bonneville. Enough said.

oldram51 · February 2003

I'll try and discribe my problem better. We started noticing a coolant loss shortly after we bought the car with about 55,000 mls. It was always worse in colder weather. It recently started going through coolant more rapidly, coincidently we had a run of very cold temps. We didn't replace the lower manifold we only removed it, cleaned it and reinstalled with new gaskets. The plenum was warped and deteriorating and full of sludge. We also replaced the pcv valve and need to replace the M.A.P. sensor. As I said before we did a complete computer check of the engine systems and everything looked good and it seems to be running fine. Obviously I could have saved myself some greif if I had done this sooner but we didn't know until recently what the problem was. There were never any obvious coolant leaks or any visible in the engine oil, so we assumed it was evaporating off the engine and until recently the amount lost wasn't large so we just kept refilling when it got low.

montanafan · February 2003

Read the posts. Where does anyone say the revised lower intake manifold solves ALL problems. It only addresses the DEGRADATION of the upper manifold on 1995-1998. They don't WARP they rot out an inside wall to a coolant passage. The fact that no one with a 1999 has reported this degradation indicates that it is a possible fix.

I have clasified your manifold as a possible leak source. I have been trying to clarify things by pointing out that there are THREE possible DIFFERENT leak issues involved in our talks. If owners want GM to accept any responsability, shouldn't the issue be identified? We could say that GM sucks (as some do) but where does that take us. We could say GM sealing technology leaves alot to be desired, and we would be closer. If we say that the design of the 1995-1998 lower intake manifolds leads to failure during the mandated California Emissions Warranty period therefore the California Air Resousres board should force a recall or extended warranty, then we have something we can work with. Identify issue, and resolution.

It would be great if our cars never had problems, but as we were recently shown so tragicly, even the best man made items can suffer failures.

I find it perfectly accetable that a failure shows up at 17,000. In fact I hope it would. Isn't that why there is a warranty? Defects in workmanship or materials, that is what a warranty is to cover. The world has settled on 36/36 as being an acceptable time for the blame to rest with the manufacturer. I would rather have it at 17,000 then 57,000 or 87,000 or 107,000.

Perhaps for the recent cars we need to find out if checking and retorquing the manifold bolts keep things strait.

We are all here for the same reason, to share and share alike. Our common thread is our car. What better way to relate. But we need to keep our focus on the correct spot.

oldram51, per the links evandro provided, you have not fixed your problem because you didn't replace the lower intake manifold. How could the dealer not sell you this revised part if they are so experienced in its replacement and know that GM recommends it?

oldram51 · February 2003

I guess i missed the need for replacing that from your earlier posts. If in fact they are doing 2-3 of these a day I definatly should have been told that. Which makes me wonder if GM is trying to keep the scope of this problem as low key as possible. Could you please tell me what happens to or what the problem is with the lower manifold as I did not catch that from earlier posts. Also how long do I have before problems resurface? Thanks!

john325 · February 2003

Thanks for your answer on the 99 Bonneville. I knew that prior year models had problems, but did not hear of any when I purchased the '99 at 1 year old, w/ 17k miles on it. My mechanic, non-GM I might add, is very aware of the 3800 engine problems. I hope I skate through without the manifold problems. Obviously if it does happen, I'm well beyond the warranty period.

In regards to new car problems, I kind of side w/ Evandro. There's something about a newer car that has terrible problems before even reaching 50k. My mechanic has always advised me to buy Toyota or Honda. And you know, you always hear about them going 200-300k miles without many problems at all.

I took a chance w/ another GM product 18 mos ago, a 2002 Buick Rendezvous, and so far have had my transmission, awd transfer case, & rack and pinion steering changed in the last 30 days, not to mention other more minor-type items. When you fork out $30k for a car, you just don't think these kinds of defects will creep-up. But as you said, thank goodness for the warranty.

When a problem is persistent through a number of years, eg, Chrysler transmissions, GM 3800 engines, Ford Wiring, or whatever, you'd think these huge companies would take some responsiblity and get these things fixed. Perhaps that's asking too much. I know Chrysler still uses the crappy transmissions in their vans that have been going-out for 10-15 years. You wonder how they can do this in good conscience.

I'm pretty sure the next car I purchase will be in the Toyota or Honda families. Our American corporations seem to be more concerned w/ their profits than customer satisfaction. Just my .02. Btw, thanks again for your reply on the '99.

John B.

montanafan · February 2003

evandro has done all the research here. Follow his links to see the pictures of the revised lower manifold and read the bulletin. Not having the updated manifold puts you at risk of the degradation but who knows how long. As you noticed, does this mean that the dealership is doing 2-3 per day wrong? GM put out the bulletin so they can't tell dealers not to sell the parts.

John325--American car companies might seam to worry more about thier profits because Americans do. Dosen't any American company have to wonder how Wall St and Main St will react to their every move? Perhaps Toyota/Honda would be different companies if they had a $19 Billion unfunded pension liability. Or was required to put over $3 billion in to the pension fund in 2003. Or if they spent over $500 million per year on healthcare for retirees. You are starting to see the rapid new model introduction take a little toll on the Toyota/Honda reputations.

evandro · February 2003

I agree with you in some points, but I don't think that I should identify the issue in order to raise hell at the Renaissance Center. There definitely is something rotten in Denmark and it smells like anti-freeze... :-)

Having said this, I wouldn't blindly fork my hard earned money on either a Honda or a Toyota just because the legend is that they run for hundreds of thousands of miles flawlesly. As legendary as it sounds, it just cannot be true.

I always try to avoid 1st year model cars exactly because of that. However, the Series II has been out there for years and so has the Bonneville. I never took my Bonneville to the dealer for any repair whatsoever. That a badly designed flimsy plastic part spoils my ownership experience in such an amazing car is a certificate of stupidity to GM brass. :-P

montanafan · February 2003

Its been a good day. We are both looking in the same direction. I just believe a general complaint leads to a general answer. As far as what the future holds, two to three years from now there will be a whole crop of choices that aren't here today. And take good care of your Bonneville. My 1992 is closing in on 240,000 miles and I may want to replace it some day.

john325 · February 2003

If one reads Consumer Reports, your eyes are blinded w/ red as you see all the filled-in red circles throughout on just just about every item conceivable for Honda and Toyota. Call it legendary claims, I call it "track records".

I did research the Bonneville here on Edmunds and in CR as well, and the rankings weren't bad at all; but their rankings paled when compared to Honda & Toyota. Btw, I almost bought an Avalon, but instead I bought the Bonneville SE. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Bonneville. And so far w/ 65k miles, the only problem I had was a muffler which was changed at about 30k. So, re: the Bonneville, I can't complain.

But when Chrysler, GM, and Ford continue pumping out materials that they know are defective, something's wrong. And I can definitely understand the unfunded pension problems, and multitude of other financial woes that American Corps. are facing. But, as I said before re: the Chrysler transmisions, they've been bad for over 15 years. I would think somehow, somewhere along the way they would correct a bad situation. The same w/ GM and Ford. Unfortunately, the only way the corps. face it head on is when the courts force them to do so, as in the recent case w/ Ford.

My hope is that the car manufacturers somehow improve their quality, so that new car owners are not faced w/ inconceivalbe repairs, ie, evandro's at 17k. Either that, or extend the warranties to something more likely to cover the lack in quality parts/materials.

John B.

evandro · February 2003

Just don't put too much credit in CR ratings. They have more legendary than factual statistics...

Having said this, reliability is not the only criterion I use when shopping for cars. In spite of their record or legend, neither Honda nor Toyota have ever put a grin on my face after driving them. THIS is a fact, at least when the time to put MY money on them came... ;-)

imidazol97 · February 2003

I'm ready to replace struts on my 98. Has anyone replaced struts on their Bonneville and have comments about how they like them after 5K? These are for a LeSabre. Last time I used monroe road-sensing struts that were softer in the middle of their stroke. They lasted 110K before I traded that LeSabre off.
I want a controlled ride (not soft like original). But I don't want bone-shaking rides either.

imidazol97 · February 2003

I never placed much faith in CR's choice and ratings. The subscribers to the mag are not a broad section of American buyers (I read it at the library or Krogers). The ones who choose to respond to the questinaire they send out are the ones who either have a gripe about their American brand car or they want to be sure their choice of a foreign car has been a wonderful choice with no problems.

I've worked with enough foreign owners through my 3 decades that I figured out pride in a foreign car will have people not admit they had problems. Too, earlier the dealers had people so cowered that they had to bring the car in for service every so many miles for lots of money and didn't dare go any where else, foreign owners tended to service the cars better than Amer. owners (70s & 80s) who put in gas and changed the oil when it wouldn't drip off the dipstick anymore. Too the dealeres did some hidden fixes while cars were in for repairs that owners didn't even know they did; that helped the car's image of never having any problems.
I've listened as the Camry buyer had to put new rotors and pads on a 2 year old Camry because of rotor damage already. I've listened to the no start or dead on way to work stories.

I've been monitoring some honda and toyota groups and other parts of Edmunds and find the same tenacious protectionism of the car's image is still there in some owners. I think there must be sales people or company peoplein some groups to keep acting as cheerleaders. I've ridden in them, Accuras on down, and I chose the GM Bonnie/LeSabre type car.

All cars have faults. If you change oil often and before the car needs it, you'll get 200K out of any engine. Don't tell me only honda and toyota cars are built to last. It's the owners. If only CR got the idea...

theiceman · February 2003

I think you make good points. I also agree with evandro - reliability isn't everything. Of course, your grin will quickly disappear if your car leaves you stranded in some Northern backwater in the middle of a January snowstorm!

(all the same, I checked out the Avalon too & was generally unimpressed with the car and simultaneously appalled at the price point.)

ice

john325 · February 2003

I've used CR as a point of reference because it's always been around, even when I was a kid. I, of course, "always" use Edmunds as a resource as well to evaluate any auto purchase.

However, my "best overriding resource" is my mechanic who is one of the top mechanics in the SF Bay Area, as well as a personal friend. He's also one of the most honest and fairest people I know. I place more credibility in him than any publication, internet site, etc... And it's he, who really has no axe to grind, that advises folks to highly consider Honda and Toyota. So, one can find fault w/ CR's methodology of coming up w/ their results, but it's funny that it matches the opinions of some of the top mechanics in the field.

I might add, my mechanic did check out my Bonneville and gave it his "blessing" before I purchased it. He had also forwarned me that earlier model years had manifold problems.

As I'm 6'1" and about 225, I prefer a car w/ some room if you know what I mean. And that's the main reason I steered towards the Bonneville and away from the Avalon. And like I said, so far it's been pretty much problem free. I have the oil changed about every 3-4K miles. Maybe I'll be luckly like montanafan, and it'll go for another 100k without any major problems.

John B.

theiceman · February 2003

Thus far, I have owned 10 Japanese cars, 1 European, and 1 Japanese-US hybrid (a Mercury Villager). My experience with Japanese was 6 Toyotas and 4 Mazdas - all reasonably positive.

Like you - I have a trusted mechanic. Like yours, mine favours Toyota and Honda - but less the latter and mine tends to be a tad Euro-centric. He practically gushed when he first inspected our Volvo - it turned out to be a lemon and will be my last Volvo ever - and 'twas he who twisted my arm to get the Villager when our thoughts turned to a Minivan. "All the important components are Nissan" said he. Turned out that those were all the components I had difficulty with - a tranny rebuild (before 50k) and a chronic coolant leak topped the list. Ironically, the Ford stuff was bullet-proof.

Go figure.

That experience made me more open to doing something I'd never dream of doing before - actually test driving a US car. Certain makes are off my list because of my perception of reliability concerns (Volvo, Nissan, VW, Chrysler, all Korean marques, etc.).

My first tester? The Aurora. SWEEEEET. Then an Avalon. Not meaning to disparage the Av but it was no contest - the American car was just better executed and more powerful and toss-able (for a large car). Once I checked out the '00 Bonnie, I was sold by the solidity, drive-ability, interior room, intelligent features, and the price point. My mechanic also gave it the nod (of course, after the Volvo and Villager fiascos, I listen a little less to him now).

I've had two small problems with the Bonnie - an LED in the stereo and the height sensor went last week - but she's been otherwise bulletproof. However, it's put me on notice that this car has a lot of electronic features that could be expensive to repair, so I'm talking with my dealer about an ext. warranty - a small expense, really, in the scheme of things.

ice

mfahey1 · February 2003

It's just that with as widespread as the problem seems to be, GM should do as Ford did with the problems that Ford had with the head gaskets on their 3.8L. They covered the cost of the repairs for up to the first 100,000 miles on the car and it didn't even have to have been repaired at a dealer. I personally have told several people about this problem as they were considering a new purchase as the problem doesn't seem to have gone away.

john325 · February 2003

iceman: Is the LED you're having trouble with the one that tells the time and/or radio station? I had mentioned this problem to Buick when my Bonneville was still under warranty, but as it didn't do it all the time, and they weren't able to replicate it, they never fixed it. Now, well past my warranty period, it periodically displays the same funny looking characters, but it eventually corrects itself. I'm curious how expensive this would be to fix.

mfahey1: it would be great if GM did that. But as montanafan pointed out, w/ all the financial challenges facing all car companies, it's not likely to happen, unfortunately...

John B.

theiceman · February 2003

It was one of the displays in the radio/volume display area. I could have lived without it but prefer to have it - especially when GM's prepared to pay for it.

I have an SLE - are our radios the same?

ice

john325 · February 2003

I have no clue if our radios are the same, but my problem sounds similar to yours. And since my radio normally corrects itself within a few minutes or so, it's no big deal. I suppose if it went out completely, I could live w/ it, but I'm hoping it'll hang in there.

When you get yours fixed, maybe you can ask what they did to it. I imagine they'll probably just change-out your radio w/ a new one.

theiceman · February 2003

I had this taken care of sometime last year - they just swapped out the entire stereo unit. They needed a few days lead time to get one in stock.

What I ended up getting was probably a rebuilt unit that likely fritzed out on somebody else several months earlier. It looked pretty spanking new when they put it in though.

ice

smfran · February 2003

My LED went in my radio display in both my current 2000 Bonneville as well as my previous 1997. Both disappeared completely; I never experienced odd displays or self-corrections. It was all or nothing. Both were Bose systems. Just like theiceman, replaced with rebuilt units under warrantee.

evandro · February 2003

Iceman and John, do your Bonnies have the Bose sound system as Stephen's? Maybe it's an issue with the Bose one...

john325 · February 2003

No, my radio is not a Bose. Whatever the alternative is, is what I have (SE model).

Funny thing, on the way to work this morning the whole display disappeared completely. I thought maybe I jinxed it by talking about it. But luckily within about 4 minutes or so, it corrected itself. It's just a matter of time before the led takes a permanent nap, I'm afraid. Oh well, If so, I can live w/ that...

John B.

1badsidekick · February 2003

Hi all, I hope someone may be able to assist here. My parents have a '93 SSEi, and the CD player will not play CDs, unless it is really hot. If the car has been sitting in the sun, and the temp inside is at least 80 degrees, it will usually play. Otherwise, when you put the CD in, it sits there for a while, and spits the CD back out, with "ERR" on the display. Anyone had this problem, and better yet, know how to fix it? The car has 106k on it, and I'm expecting my dad to trade it off sometime, but he and my mom would like to listen to CDs once in a while, since the radio doesn't pick up very well around here. Any info is appreciated. Thanks!

1badsidekick · February 2003

My dad also has a '98 Grand Prix GT, and once in a while, the display for the cd player will either disappear completely, or have some parts of the numbers missing, and usually, the dark red background will stay lit, just the numbers don't show up. He has the stock CD player with graphic equalizer. Sounds like the problem in the Bonneville.

mlm4 · February 2003

My experience with factory CD players in both GM and Ford vehicles is that when they refuse to play and spit the disc back out the player just needs to be replaced. Given the age of your car maybe you can ask a good electronics repair shop but I'm not sure if it's repairable.

theiceman · February 2003

I would agree - at 10 years old, it could have accumulated dust or just be worn. Curious about the heat thing though - probably not worth fixing unless you know some cheap teen-genius type.

twobrowns · February 2003

My 01 Bonne. developed a cracking noise when you turn the wheel at low speed. It appears to be intensifying by the day. I now have 50000 miles of trouble free driving. Hope this is nothing serious like the steering rack.I plan to take it to the dealer tomorrow. Any thoughts about what the problem may be?

smfran · February 2003

I had the crackling noise too when my '00 Bonnie was relatively new. The dealer could not find anything wrong so I lived with it. Eventually the noise disappeared.

1badsidekick · February 2003

How many alternators have you guys put in your Bonnevilles? Our '93 SSEi has had 4, and is at 106,000 miles.

wnewell · February 2003

I owned a Ford Taurus that kept eating atlernators and batteries, I ran ground wires from alternator to motor and body and had no more problems.

Wayne

max74 · February 2003

Help , I have 94 Bonneville 3.8
    that's been towed in 4 times this week.

    It runs fine until either a power door
lock or window switch is activated , then it stalls and refuses to start . Lots of spark but
fuel pump does not come on during cranking .
    A few hours later it will start .
     All lites go dim when these switchs are
pressed . Have gone through Mitchell -on Line
wiring diagrams but don't see any relationship
between these functions . Have checked all
grounds and even wired external ground from
block to frame to battery.
    Hoping someone may have seen this before .
         thanks for any imput.

1badsidekick · February 2003

The old AC/Delco alternators for the 3800 engine in these older bonnies were prone to go out every 40,000 miles. Before my dad bought this car, he talked to several other people he worked with who had a bonneville with the 3800, whether it was supercharged or not, and said that they had to replace it every 40,000 miles. The first one went out when we were on vacation in the Smokies, about 40 days after we got the car (it had 41k). It left us stranded, and had to be towed to the nearest dealer the next day, after some kind souls jumped us off twice to get us back to our hotel. The next one went only about 25k or 30k later, and it took the battery with it. The last time it went out was last August, as I was using the car to drive my grandmother back and forth to therapy 45 minutes away. I noticed earlier that day it had a hard time starting, and the lights were dim later that night. I opened the hood, and pressed on the accelerator cable, and sparks flew out of the alternator. Luckily, the 2nd time it had to be replaced, we got it from Advanced Auto Parts which offers the lifetime warranty. Haven't paid for once since, but still have to put them on. It's simple to do, as long as it doesn't leave us stranded.

1badsidekick · February 2003

Wow, I've never heard of such a thing. But, I have to say, that that generation of Bonnevilles had a TON of electrical problems. Ours has 2 intermittant windows (they go down when they want to), one door that won't unlock, the cd player doesn't work, no abs/traction control, and the overhead lights go out from time to time. However, nothing such as this. I'm sorry I can't be of any help, don't know what to suggest. I hope someone else can help you, and get it done quick! They are really nice cars, when they work!

montanafan · February 2003

Have a 1992 Bonneville but haven't had anything like you problem. Check the anti-theft system. Our cars feature the GM passkey theft system (the chip in the key). This system keeps fuel and crank from happening. Not sure on spark though. You might see if this system and the windows or locks share any common power or grounds. Also if there is an aftermarket theft system, that coudl be something to check.

1badsidekick · February 2003

I forgot about the passkey thing. That could be part of his problem. Ya never know how these electrical lines can get crossed up sometimes.

snooper · February 2003

Would love to get some feedback on replacing struts on a 96 Bonneville. Just recently bought a 96 Bonne with 130,000 miles and brought it into the garage to have it checked over because after two weeks, I started to hear a slight rattling/staggering noise going uphill. They told me the struts and mounts needed to be replaced - electric struts (from the dealership) would be over $500 each or I could go with the after-market struts for $118 each (although this would eliminate my electronic ride - has the traction/performance/touring options). Of course, with the high mileage I went with the after-market struts for $118. Although I need a front-end alignment because of this job, I feel like my car now drives like a truck. I'm having my doubts that the alignment is going to make any difference (also should note that I had the front brakes done at the same time). Has anyone had a "strut job" done with after-market parts and noticed a big difference in the drive?

max74 · February 2003

Re electical nightmare with '94 Bonneville

Thanks for your suggestions . To-day we found both fuel pump and power door lock relays showing signs of overheating and corrosion ...so replaced them both and also cleaned up some green looking ground connectors , Car started right up and allowed the windows and door locks to operate and still stay running , usually this would cause it to quit . Car ran just long enough to back out of shop and down she went again !!!
Back to square one , good cranking ,lots of spark
but no fuel pump AND all interior lights dim when either doors or windows activated . Will be back at it tommorow ..will post solution when we find it !!! Thanks for ANY input .

imidazol97 · February 2003

I had a 93 LeSabre and locks and power seat would cut out temporarily for minutes at a time. I tried tracking the grounding and schematic indicated grounds next to driver's left foot near parking brake pedal and saw mention of ground under carpeting on left side of driver's seat next to door sill. It's about where the left hand would drop sitting in driver's seat. There is a raised area under the carpet there. Much of the grounding from dash units like heater/ac control ended up grounding through those two points. I couldn't (didn't) get to tear all the way into that one. It wasn't enough of a problem like the engine dying is!

I believe the manual shows similar ground in the right kick panel area but I don't remember one on passenger side next to the seat.

I hope you have a service person used to GM electrical work like a GM garage.
It might save time and dollar$ in the end because they're used to where the quirks occur in their models of cars.

theiceman · February 2003

It was a loose grounding wire - between the block and the firewall IIRC. A Mazda I had developed a similar condition but the root of that one was the result of a nesting rodent chewing on wires under the hood! Never saw that problem in the troubleshooting section of any manual...

ice

max74 · February 2003

...re electrical nightmare 94 Bonneville.

imidazol97 .. hit it right on with his suggestion of grounding junction under carpet on drivers side ! This was all corroded up and believe it or not , shares grounding with pwr
windows , doors , locks AND fuel pump.
Why G.M. would ever design this wiring is beyond me...the junction sits there ,under the carpet
unshielded just waiting for moisture to work it's way in . Car now runs like a dream.
I would suggest that anyone , out there with this style of Bonneville , Chev ect , especially
in the northern States where snow and moisture
can spill over the edge of your floor mats RIGHT
onto this area, to inspect and clean this junction ,because
as these cars age ..the problem can only get worse .. Rod Mcisaac alphaone@sprint.ca

montanafan · March 2003

Thanks for posting the results. Not all Edmunds posters come back to close the story. If I can get my wife to slow down (maybe even stop), I will check out this area. Thanks.

islandman · March 2003

Regarding several posts that pointed out the reliability of Japanese cars, one has to remember that after WWII the japanese were not allowed to develop weapon systems. The US was starting the 50 year cold war and all our top engineers were recruited to build weapon systems. The Japanese, on the other hand, had their top engineers developing cars, electronics. etc. It should come as no suprise then that they were eventually able to produce a more reliable car. Take solace in the fact that we (the US) build way better bombs than the Japanese.

imidazol97 · March 2003

Anyone who reads the Accord and Camry and Highlander topics here has figured out that the mirage that all imports are better built is fading. It has been kept alive by dealers requiring customers to have all sorts of expensive repairs and maintenance checks done while American car owners have choice of where to take their cars. Then things haven't been fixed at the dealer and more little/major things tend to go wrong. Also I note from the people I work with that Japance car owners are scared not to take their car back each time the checkups are due. American car owners drive them and skip the suggested checkups. Same for oil changes. Most of us would agree 3000 mi oil changes are a must.

The mirage of Japanese cars getting good gas mileage is also a reality. Many people think because a Honda Accord 4 cylinder manual trans gets 32 mpg that the 4 auto and 6 auto get better mileage than a Bonnie 3800 auto or LeSabre. Mine gets 32 traveling with air on and 75 average travel speed. It doesn't sound like the Accord topic has that mileage for the 6 cyl auto. But most people think the Honda/Toyota still get better gas mileage like they did in the 80-89 era e.g.

fantascp · March 2003

Hello to everyone- need help with my air compressor- 98 SSE- compressor goes on about 30 seconds after car starts- runs for about the same time then goes off.
Xavier64- was it the ABS/re-adjusting?

Any help/info is appreciated.

Stephen- good luck with your Envoy!!
Ken- good to hear your 2000 is still going strong.
I'm starting to get used to the 03 GT, but I'm still more and more looking forward to the 04 Bonneville.

Chuck.

Pontiac Bonneville General Maintenance and Repair

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