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VW Golf vs Honda Civic

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Comments

  • jenevievejenevieve Member Posts: 11
    yes, but the civic does not have any options! which makes me very sad. :(
  • bbosleybbosley Member Posts: 2
    i just bought a 95 STD golf for 9400. It has 47000 miles and it still looks brand new. I personally thought this was a good deal but i would like to see what you guys think.
  • derrickwongderrickwong Member Posts: 10
    Are you suggesting that the civic is a "much less" refined car than the golf? I have to vigorously disagree. The Civic is as "refined" as any of its competitors (including the Golf).
  • odysseusodysseus Member Posts: 10
    To see just how much more refined the golf is, take one for a test drive, and then jump back into a civic. The difference is huge. Maybe the civic compares in refinement to the a3 golf, but it's not even close when comparing it to the new golf. Drum tight body, no squeaks or groans, and an interior that is of higher class than a caddalac, or chrysler 300m.
  • yoredyored Member Posts: 12
    Hello, I jumped over to this post from the Honda Civic Hatchback conference as the discussion here is on point to where I am now in my decision making process.

    I have been in the market for a small easily parked, reliable and low maintance vehicle for a few months, I live in Queens county and would travel periodically into Manhatten to work.

    The choices have been basically the Civic and possibly a "New Beetle" which is based on the golf chasis.

    The Beetle: Costs more, base aprox. $15,000 and change. A true head turner even in NYC. Great head room for size, less so in back seat but I am not a livery service, I don't care. Apparently can have rear seats dropped for increased storage. The Civic in this area always amazed me, it was kind of like a circus car that held 20 clowns. I read earlier in this discussion about the rig-a-miral one has to go through in I think the Passat, removing head rests and such to accomplish the extra cargo space.Same in the Beetle? Released in '98, has there been any known defects that were addressed in '99?Improvements? Hard to get the dirty details with all off the gushy hype.Also wondered if there is anyway you can put a bike rack on the Beetle. Looked one over the other day with my girlfriend and was at a loss as to where it would fit. VW's repair history and expensive charges are a little scary.Generally recieved as a good fit and finish car. The standard engine is a 2.0 liter and the turbo, oddly, is 1.8, ABS and AC seem to be standard...pricey extras on the Civic which features a 1.6 liter engine.

    Honda Civic 3Dr/Hatch: Stripped bare,$10,000, 5 sp man, no power steering, AC is around $1,000 extra and dealer installed only...a kick back to the dealers for selling a low margin car I think. Broke with tradition and extended the body style an extra year with a revamped civic in 2001. The research I have studied says that buying the last year of a body style hurts resale as the car will look dated sooner...that is a strike against it. Engine reliability is legendary, and that is the leverage that Honda seems to be using on the public.
    The "tinniness" of the Civic is also a concern. I was wondering if "Isellhondas" had a comment on the cost of a comparably equipped Honda vs a base Beetle?
  • odysseusodysseus Member Posts: 10
    Yored, it's true that the beetle chassis is based on the golf, but why don't you just buy a golf instead? The golf has way more usefull cargo space in the back, more than the civic even, it's lighter, looks cooler, (In my opinion) and it's not an overpriced fad like the beetle. I bet you could get a new golf gl for $1000 less than the equivalant beetle. You get a better interior in the golf too, a tachometer thats full sized, unlike the beetles dinky wristwatch sized tach.
  • yoredyored Member Posts: 12
    Truthfully, never even considered the Golf. Don't know why, I haven't test driven any of them, older Civics. Not the same I know. The Civic impressed me with the seat full back,my 6'2" frame didn't scream. Have not been in a Golf,a GTI....quick, nimble, tight fit. I don't know, will look it over...keep hearing tales of maintenance trouble and draconian rates charged by VW mechanical work.
    Am I valid to have these concerns?
  • AaronAaron Member Posts: 11
    Your concerns about part and repair costs are valid. In my 10 years of driving I have owned the following cars: 83 Toyota Celica, 85 Toyota Supra, 87 VW Jetta, 90 Audi 90 Quattro, and I now own a 99 BMW 323i. I am also interested in the Golf as a utility car to replace my wife's aging Nissan Sentra. I like that the Golf can be had in a hatchback with 4 doors. Honda seems to take a more stripper approach to the hatchback model. I know what people say about the tinniness of Japanese cars, but look at the Insurance Institute tests a year or so ago that were on TV, where they had a Golf III and a Honda Civic among other cars on test. The Civic scored the best, and the "solid" Golf scored 6th or 7th out of 9, I think. I will qualify that by saying that VW has probably improved the crashability of the Golf IV quite a bit. I would like to see a rematch.

    Now, back to the joys of VW ownership. Parts and service are a ripoff. I wanted to buy a section of exhaust pipe for my Jetta, and the dealer wanted $375 for it. Luckily, I found a knockoff for $40. I dont think Honda parts are particularly reasonable either, but not as bad as VW.

    Another problem with VW is the "Varies Widely" approach to the US market. I dont believe anything I hear in the press about VW cars until I see something at the dealers lot. Ask the people who have been waiting 2 years for the Passat to get the syncro 4wd system while VW waffled on whether they were going to offer it. Or the people who waited for the TDI engine on the Passat because VW announced that they were going to offer it on the new Passat. At least VW only made them wait 1 year before saying they were not going to offer that after all.

    I cant comment on the quality of VW or Honda dealers. VW dealers have had to suffer a lot to survive over the past 10 years, so many may not be used to providing the best service. On the other hand, Honda dealers overall score very low customer satisfaction according to JD Powers. Toyota is down there as well. Both Honda and Toyota especially took totally different approaches to cust service Lexus and Acura. An interesting perspective is provided by the book "Arrogance and Accords" The gist of this book, written by a former sales employee of American Honda, describes how a lot of Honda dealers were bribing Honda executives in the '80s to get good allocations of hot selling Honda cars.

    If that wasnt long winded enough... Basically the Honda is more available and has predictable reliability, but the VW Golf IV has a much improved sturdiness to it, and lots of useable hatchback space.
  • odysseusodysseus Member Posts: 10
    The insurance of highway safety recently tested the new golf and jetta, and gave them high marks in the crash test arena. Overall I think they got a rating of acceptable. Survivability was very high in the new models, and the bumpers were rated as good, requiring much less $$$ to repair than the non vw's tested. This years honda civic is a carryover from previous model years as I understand it, hasen't been redesigned in a number of years, while the new vw's, including the golf, jetta and new beetle, are completely new from the ground up. So the chassis is way stiffer than before
  • AaronAaron Member Posts: 11
    http://www.hwysafety.org/crash/small_cars/crashsmall.htm

    This has the crash test results for small cars from the insurance institute. The Golf is now 2nd from the top. The top spot is the Beetle (?) The Civic is still no slouch in the number 3 spot.
  • 7george7george Member Posts: 1
    I Love the 99GLS Golf. Why??? I just bought one. It handles awesome!!!
  • bugs_big_brobugs_big_bro Member Posts: 2
    i test drove the acura integra, honda civic and vw golf. clearly the golf was a much better car.
    it uses a bit more gas but at the same time, u get more power.
    i'm not a big fan of honda's. they're reliable cars, but who says vw's are not.
    i prefered the golf GL(new body) and so i bought it.it's got great handling, interior is good and it looks good.
  • estvikingestviking Member Posts: 1
    Is the VW Golf going to be cheaper to buy, operate
    or is the Honda going to beat them at the game?
  • spaghettispaghetti Member Posts: 4
    To sweenyj and estviking: go golf. i own a 1985 honda accord (hatchback, thank you) and have put 210,000 wonderful miles on the car. the powertrain holds the rest of the car together (rust, interior dry-rot, badly fading paint--and yes my car was waxed twice a year) but i will be replacing it, possibly later this year. however, the only honda hatchback is the civic: dx: barebones (no cruise, bluedog62--gotta go to the $15,000+ ex coupe or sedan) or cx: more barebones than dx.

    golf has abs, 4 airbags, cruise, power heated mirrors, windows, and locks (we're talking gls) and is my preference. i understand there may be more maladies and dealer difficulties (i actually had a wonderful honda dealer) but liking the car better may be worth it. none of the above- mentioned options are available on the civic hatchback.

    hope this helps y'all.
  • penrynpenryn Member Posts: 2
    I had an 88 Civic hatchback, and I loved that car. I bought it new and (until I wrecked it five years later) never had any problems with it. Fun to drive, and I thought it looked pretty cool, too.
    :-)

    Yesterday, I bought a new Golf GL. I really don't think you can compare the two . . .other than being hatchbacks. The Golf is bigger, nicer, more comfortable, more refined. I just hope it holds up as well as my little red Civic did!
  • rric100rric100 Member Posts: 3
    I don't own,nor plan to buy either of these models at any time in the near future,but couldn't resist putting in my 2 cents worth!(I'm the proud and happy owner of a '98 Escort ZX2)You really can't go wrong with either of these cars.The Civic DX Hatch is a peppy,responsive,and fun to drive car,that can be had for about $10,000 on the left coast.Spend about 15 or 16K for a Golf and get standard A/C,4 wheel anti lock disc brakes,remote heated outside mirrors,and that irresistable German styling and driving feel!(if you can hold off a few months,the new Ford Focus will certainly be worth a look!)sorry for babbling on!
  • floydlawsonfloydlawson Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1996 Civic DX Coupe. Initially I had a couple of problems with it such as a plastic wheel well falling down on the tire and some rubber moulding came out from the headlight. The dealer fixed these promptly and 45,000 miles later, this car has been flawless. What a fine car. I don't have a good reason why I might be leaving the fold.

    Next year I may get a new Golf TDI. My brother has a 1996 Passat TDI that he absolutely loves. I just like the thought of a bulletproof diesel engine getting me around. I was sold when I visited Canada and most of the taxis in Montreal and Toronto are Jetta diesels.
  • mbrzezowskimbrzezowski Member Posts: 1
    I am a die-hard VW fan, but I think I am going to purchase a Civic. The new Golf TDI is great (All the features mic100 mentioned plus stainless steel exhaust and more). Unfortunately, the Golf pushed itself a little out of my reach.

    When my wife finishes med school we will be off to hopefully buy a Golf TDI (I have seriously dreamed about the TDI Golf since '94 when they were promised, but didn't show). For now, we are penny-pinching with a CX Civic hatchback.

    - Mike
  • puddpudd Member Posts: 2
    I bought a brand new golf 3 when they first came out in the Eastern U.S. back in '94, I had it for slighlty over a year and had zero problem with it; I got into a pretty serious accident(total loss)and walked out of it without a scratch(no airbag but seat belt on). It handled very well, even though I thought the ride was a little soft, had a crisp responsive steering, built solid and had an expensive feel to it. The 115HP engine could have done with an extra 15HP but was still very fun to drive. The 100k mile warranty + the 24k mile free service was just unbeatable at the time. My insurance gave me enough money to put a down payment on a '95 325is, the words to describe that car is "absolutely awesome". In 4 years just the airbag module had to be replaced. I maintained it meticulously(expensive) and had no problems. I can't speak much about the Honda Civic, never owned one. My first car was a Nissan and certainly was reliable but so was my Golf. I've driven other Japanese cars and my only problem with them is that they don't have half the driving excitement and charisma that German cars have. I think everything comes down to personal tastes and needs. Personally I would go for the Golf just because I had a good experience with one. Also everywhere you turn your head you'll see a Honda; I usually don't follow the masses.
  • enkidu98enkidu98 Member Posts: 1
    Heya Folks,

    I had been lurking, reading posts until last Friday (The 23rd) When I drove down to Littleton here in Colorado and bought me a new car. I have driven a 1981 Honda civic HB for 10 years, it has 322,000 miles on it and only burns oil. No engine overhaul.

    So you would think.. I was buying a honda. NOPE. Bought a VW Golf. To bring the Honda up to the same level of luxuries would have cost me the same or more than the Golf depending on who I talked to, it's smaller, and not nearly as fun to drive.

    Why I am posting here though, Is I had to share my buying experience. I went to my local dealer first and told them what I wanted. They could not find the car on their lot but searched the other dealerships. In that process, they had me call another dealership to inquire about the colour of an interior. That dealer really wanted my business and put on the hard sell. I explained to them, I wanted to give the salesguy in Ft Collins (My City) the chance out of courtesy for his work. I explained I would show the same level of loyalty to him were the situations reversed.. But that's aside from the point.

    I went back to the Ft Collins dealer and started talking money. They wanted 15,070$ for the car and this would be a plain 'ol GL model. I made a counter offer which they refused, saying there was no profit on the car to begin with. I upped my offer and asked them to put the 6 cd changer on the passenger seat, and I would install it myself. Again I was rebuffed... Here comes the moral of the story *laughs -- I lurked so long, I now write too much*

    Perturbed I left the dealership. The following morning I went to VW's web site and got the names and fax numbers of all the dealerships within 200 miles. I Wrote ONE fax, with a to: field including all their names. In the fax I stated my price, my vehicle preferences and that my financing was already approved (I strongly suggest you get financing before you go to the dealers.. makes it much easier to deal with them). I then solicited counter offers.

    GL's were hard to find, but I had a few bites and also some interest in the GLS'. I was about to come to terms with a GREAT dealership in Boulder Colorado (Gebhardts - Ask for Carrie.. tell her Theron sent you)for 15,025 including the 6 disk changer and I drove off the lot. Not much less really than Fort Collins, but I liked the service and how well she worked for me. Just as I was about to make the deal, I received another phone call from McDonald's Automotive Group in Littleton Colorado and they said, We'll give you the GLS, in the colour I wanted, for 15,723. I had to take it, a bit more in the end than I wanted to spend but I got more car than I needed.

    So, to share my buying experience, it was my pre-financing and knowing my price range AND showing the dealers I was shopping that guaranteed me a great deal. I would Highly suggest using this method to find your cars.

    Good Luck
    Theron

    (PS -- LOVE Honda's, but they really just aren't fun like the VW. I would though buy that new S2000 in a heartbeat if I could afford it... 240 horse from 2 litre 4 cylinder...Wahoo!)
  • hcj13hcj13 Member Posts: 5
    Hi guys. i am trying to buy a new golf in the baltimore area.. anybody know a good dealer around here?

    thanks
  • jaqaijaqai Member Posts: 1
    Hello all....
    I'm a first time buyer waiting in the wings....Getting tired of my 1986 Tempo, (okay, REALLY TIRED) and I'm ready to take the plunge. I definately want a hatchback and I have narrowed it down to these 2...

    Unfortunately, my "able to pay this much" situation has prematurely helped me to narrow it down to one.

    The Honda Civic Hatchback.

    But, I test drove one .(The pretty much stripped bare version....it had
    a/c 4 seats, manual transmission...and a steering wheel...) I was quite impressed with the room inside, and how it handled. It felt like a pretty solid car as well. And, these longevity stories that are posted here are very awe inspiring. (I'm proud of my Tempo lasting to 190,000 miles while still going strong....letalone 300,000!!!

    I would have purchased the Honda I test drove... But, there is this one thing...that keeps nagging at me. It doesn't have an armrest in between the 2 front seats.(on the drivers right hand side) My girlfriend's car has that and frankly, I've fallen in love with having that there.

    Does anyone know if there is a way...or maybe a 3rd party center peice that could be placed there in a Civic? Or...any other way to achieve this? I know the Golf comes with one standard, but...I just don't think affording a golf is an option. And, frankly...the expensive repair costs scare me a lil' bit. And, Hondas do seem to run for ever.

    Any feedback on this one would be appreciated.
  • odysseusodysseus Member Posts: 10
    I know the golf costs more, but you really can appreciate where that extra cost has gone to. What other car in this class is built as well as the golf? It's build quality is better than a $40 000 cadallac. As for reliability, don't worry about it. The 4 cylinder in the golf is proven to be extremely durable, perhaps because of it's uncomplicated 8 valve design. It has a 10 year warrenty I believe. Yes, the civic is an ok car, but clearly the golf is much better. If it were me i'd wait a bit till I could buy the golf so i'd be able to get the car that would satisfy me the most.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    Odysseus: Why is the Golf clearly better than the Civic? Because it has an old outdated 8V engine and not a 16V like the Hondas? Because it doesn't get as good a mileage as the Honda? Why don't you explain. I don't think you 're right.
    "enkidu98" just finished explaining how he bought a 115hp car for $15,700 because he loved the CD changer. He didn't talk about all the options he got but I bet you a Civic EX w/127hp is comparably priced (or less) with similar options. Or take the Civic SI for around $17.5K with 160hp VTEC engine, 4wheel disks, 15" alloys, sport suspension, etc. etc. In my experience Civics can go longer than VW without problems. At my last job there were 4 golfs and about 10 Civics in the parking lot and all we did was talk about cars. The VWs had far more problems than the Civics that I estimate at about 5:1 ratio. There were not major mechanical problems but many little things that found them at the dealer or local garage more often than they liked.
    The worst I 've seen it was my brother-in-law's '88 Jetta. The engine's head gasket went at 160,000mi so he fixed it (cost mucho $$). This isn't too bad because I 've seen Civics with head gasket problems at around 200K mi. too, although rare (depends on how much you beat on the car). About 4 months later the Jetta started losing power and smoking a lot. They found a crack in the engine block! and the $600 for the head gasket went out the window!
    Just because the Golf is German it doesn't make it better. I like its new style much better and believe that it's more fun to drive. Civics usually have average handling although road feel has gotten better and the ride softer with the new generation.
    The Golf though is too pricey for only offering a 115hp 8V engine and it's almost a foot shorter than the Civic coupes. The GTI-VR6 is probably a car to consider but at $23K sticker, I think it's the 2nd smallest most expensive car in the planet next to the Miata. Too much $$, compared to other good Japanese alternatives like the Integra or Civic SI.
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • ajvdhajvdh Member Posts: 223
    Speak not to me of Honda's immaculate build quality. I've had first hand experience.

    The head on my religiously maintained '88 Integra warped at 64k miles. The mechanic (at an independent Honda shop) told me they see a lot of that on Civics and Integras. The cooling system is, as he put it, "barely adequate." That's after the A/C failed twice, the radiator sprung a terminal leak, the drivers side door handle came off in my hand, and every piece of interior trim decided that rattling would make my driving experience more fulfilling.

    One of my co-workers had an '88 Integra. 15 k after the Acura dealer replace the timing belt, it snapped. The estimate for repair was greater than the value of the car.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    Sounds like the mechanic who installed the timing belt didn't do such a good job.
    It also sounds like '88 might 've been a bad year for Integras :-)
    I didn't start buying Hondas & Acuras till '90. Before that it was mainly american (what a mistake) My commute is 160 miles a day and have put a total of about 360K miles on 3 cars since 1990. (not counting my wife's other Japanes cars). The most expensive repair I had was an alternator.
    Honestly though, if I had to replace the head at 64K mi. I wouldn't buy the same Make again either.
    The trust would be gone.
    (are you sure it wasn't 264k mi? just kidding)
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • oettingoetting Member Posts: 2
    "Enkidu98 just finished explaining how he bought a 115hp car for $15700 because he loved the CD changer". In that case why didn't he buy the cheapest car he could find with a terrific CD changer!? Why don't you go back and read his post, this is not the reason he bought the Golf Harry. I personally think the Golf is better than the civic; is that OK Harry? I own a '97 Golf K2 and have driven my girlfriend's '96 Acura Integra(similar enough to a Honda I would think)and both are fine cars. Engine wise the Acura is obviously faster and more peppy but I find it also to produce a lot of vibrations and noise at high RPMs. On the other hand my Golf is silky smooth with no vibrations even close to the redline(6200rpm). One other big difference I noticed is the cooling systems. The Acura's change in water temperature is very noticeable; the Golf once warmed up will have the needle pegged vertical at 195*F with no visible movement, that's what I call German precision. Reliability wise we haven't had any problems with both our cars. Gas mileage is very good on both cars also. I really haven't compared and couldn't care less about 1 or 2 MPG difference. Regarding the 2.0 liter 8V engine in my car being outdated, I just don't buy it. Why VW hasn't introduced a 16V Golf for the U.S market as it has for Europe, I don't know and couldn't care less, I'm happy with what I have. One problem I have with [non-permissible content removed] cars is the amazing lack of originality in styling. The Integra's front styling(small round headlights)for instance is a style that originated on a sport model built by Alfa Romeo back in the late 80's not sold in the U.S. The back of the new Toyota Camry also looks like an old Alfa sedan model. The previous Accords look like an older Opel model. I think the Japanese did well to choose not to sell those particular models in Europe, people over there would just laugh.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    When I was in Europe last year the Civics looked very much the same as here. There were a lot hatchbacks there. Especially the 160hp VSI htchbk which I wish we could get here in addition to the SI. I don't think they sell the Integra in Europe.
    In any case I find it interesting about your cooling observations. My GSR's temp. gauge does not move a hair even when it's redlined all the time. I never noticed my '95 LS get hot either - never. Did you flush the cooling system at 30K miles?
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • oettingoetting Member Posts: 2
    I have seen a few civics in Europe and not surprised at all about Europeans preferring hatchbacks; parallel parking even a small sedan can be a nightmare overthere, that's why the Golfs are so popular. I've never seen an integra or any other models I mentioned.
    My girlfriend's integra doesn't get hot but you can see slight fluctuations on the temperature gauge, as opposed to my golf, like your car, it doesn't move a hair either. It might altogether be different cooling systems, maybe a different type of thermostat who knows. I know that the Germans always like doing things their ways when it comes to cars, for instance when I turn off the ignition on my Golf a few seconds later you'll hear the fan come on. It never does that on the Integra.
  • only1harryonly1harry Member Posts: 1,140
    It's funny. While I was in Greece last year, I was admiring a guy's Civic VSI (or VTI I think?) hatchback w/160hp. We started talking and a couple of his friends joined the conversation. What they say about cars imported in the US is what we say about the cars not imported here.
    When I told them I owned an Integra they all said they wished they had the cars that we get here and that they had read about the Integra which I believe only sells in Asia, US, Canada and South America.
    I told them I felt the same way about the 160hp Civic and other cars. The SI had not been introduced in the US at the time. Over there they also get 1.6 and 1.8L BMWs mainly because they 're taxed on the displacement of their engines.
    I did see a lot of VWs and Golfs. German, French and Italian cars dominate the European market, although there is a good amount of Toyota, Nissan and Hondas but they 're probably the minority. There are also a couple of Ford models like nothing we 've seen here, designed and built in England. Truly different world over there, even the automobile one.
    '99 Integra GSR
    '06 Civic LX coupe
    '11 BMW 335i coupe xDrive
    '13 Honda Accord sedan (wife's car)
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    An earlier (long) post went on about how great the Civic EX and Si are. But, isn't the topic HATCHBACKS? Those are 2 door coupes/sedans.

    My best bud was the most loyal Honda owner, had an '86 and '92 Civic Si HB. However, when it was time to get a new one, there was no replacement available (1998). So, he looked at a 1996 GTI and bought it and is happy. He dislikes the newer Civic HB ('96 up).
  • valdelalvaldelal Member Posts: 1
    I'm a first time buyer, and I've decided on a civic dx hatchbacth b/c that's all that I can afford. My question is, if i'm looking to buy a new 1999, and this is the end of august, how much should I pay for keeping in mind that the new 2000 are due any day? Thanks. Abby
  • chellischellis Member Posts: 3
    ...but I'm looking to buy a '99 Golf GLS. Does anyone know when the 2000 comes out? The 2000 Beetle is out, but I haven't seen any Golfs and I'm wondering if VW cuts prices on last year's models when the new ones come in.

    I've had an 1989 Civic DX HB for 10 years and have loved it! But, I'm ready for a change and am excited about entering the VW world for awhile.
  • ggrientsggrients Member Posts: 4
    The 2000 model Golf has been on dealer lots for at least a month. You probably won't find any special discounts on the '99.5, but you can always try. :-) It's really the same car with the same price, except that they are charging a little more for the luxury package on the 2000 model year. Also, the GLS *supposedly* has a cold weather package and monsoon sound as an option for 2000, but I haven't heard of anyone actually finding one yet with these options.
  • yeliyeli Member Posts: 1
    I am also in the midst of deciding btw the Civic and the Golf. MY HONDA HISTORY FIRST for the record: I had an '81 Civic Hatch, loved it, & replaced it with an '89. It's now up to 225M km/120M miles. Within first two years, it had a chronic electrical problem {car stalled when shifting down into 2nd gear} and the entire transmission had to be replaced {difficulty getting into reverse}. Occasional nuisances since have included broken seat mechanisms and frequent headlight replacements on one side. And, it's been broken into 4 times. The police say Civics are notoriously easy for petty thieves to get into for radios, tapes, change in the coin slots, etc. There's been accompanying damage to windows and door panels that have cost me in repairs and/or insurance premiums. Otherwise, very reliable 'til now when a cracked distributor cap, suspension, and the like need attention. And, it LOOKS its age with rust and torn fabric. Like to think I got my money's worth but others might say it's had a less than stellar record. NOW ABOUT THE NEW CAR CHOICE BTW CIVIC AND GOLF ... I want a hatchback. But, I also feel that the new Civic Hatch is just too bare-to-the-bones ... even the Sedans look boring! SO, I WANDERED OVER TO A VW DEALER and have pretty well decided to go GOLF. Just looks and feels better ... has a std A/C and security system that wld add a combined $2M to the Civic price ... and 'cause I want to feel excited about a purchase I make once every 10 years. Think, VW didn't win me over so much as Honda gave me nothing to come back home to. VW wants "Drivers" and this driver it's got!
  • sunnyysunnyy Member Posts: 1
    Folks-

    I have spent the last few days lurking around and reading ALL of the postings about Civics and Golfs here and elsewhere in an attempt to add to my next-to-nil knowledge about cars in general. I had (past tense) a 91 Nissan Sentra which has slowly been deteriorating in terms of the interior (windows stick and need Herculean force to open and close, the side mirror on the right fell off a while back never to be seen again, the sun visor thing is in tattered pieces, the upholstery soaks up stains) but in spite of all that the engine has held up well over the last 9 yrs and 130,000+ miles. That was until I was plowed into by a bigger car that left my car in a crumpled heap.

    Okay, so now, I'm looking at hatchbacks, and am
    *still* undecided after having read hundreds of postings on both VWs and Hondas. I am leaning toward the Golf for aesthetic, performance and safety purposes, but the Honda is appealing for gas mileage and for reliability. The Golf seems to yield good gas mileage for sticks, but I'm in the SF bay area and have never driven a stick, and I'm very very scared of tackling the SF hills as an inexperienced stick driver. I am also looking for A/C and other (what I consider basic) perks.

    I am waiting for info from you knowledgeable and kind folks on this.

    Much obliged-

    Sunny
  • mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    I think you're right, sunnyy. Civic hatchbacks and VW Golfs appeal to different people. I've never heard anyone say a Civic is "fun to drive," yet that's the phrase I see associated often with the Golf, and to think of it, VW in general.

    So, get out a piece of paper and list what you want in a car. Then compare your list to what each car does for you. If you are like most consumers who really get into the pros and cons of the cars they're considering, you'll draw up your list, see which car comes out ahead and then they say, "Darn, I really wanted the Golf!" Others will say, "Darn, I really wanted the Civic." And bingo, there's your answer!

    carlady/host
  • speedydgspeedydg Member Posts: 1
    I know,I know different vehicles, one sedan, one hatchback. but this is my problem. I've negotiated for a (1999 Mazda Protege LX for $13000) or (ES for $13705 fully loaded except for alarm system). And the 2000 Golf GLS fully loaded for $17459. Should I even be thinking about this?
    Which is a better vehicle? More safety features in the VW but economically the Mazda is the better deal.Maybe with the money i save I can buy the 2000 Golf GLS. You negotiate a great price on a car you would like second. Isn't it about getting what you want as much as what you can afford.
  • taliesintaliesin Member Posts: 3
    You've probably heard this before (but maybe not), check out the Golf TDI. The incredible torque at low RPMs are ideal for SF and the fuel mileage surpasses almost all others cars in the country. The only problem is availability... they can be quite hard to find. (If you are still afraid of a stick, an automatic mated to the TDI is actually quite good due to the low-end torque, but good luck finding one).

    Check out Fred's TDI forum for info:
    http://www.ufies.org/~fred/forums.html
  • mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    Repeat the carlady's mantra: the best car for you is the best car for YOU. Make the best decision you can and you will drive off into the sunset without any of the "what if I had?" anxiety. Actually, I think the new car smell takes care of that!

    carlady/host
  • hollywood6hollywood6 Member Posts: 1
    I don't know where you guys come up with these VW horror stories. My 1988 Fox 170k miles has never given me any problems. Maybe I'm one of those who actually do maintenance on their cars.
  • scrackoscracko Member Posts: 1
    i am thinking of getting a honda civic coupe ex or a gti gls. which one is honestly better, more reliable, and fun to drive. i need it to last a long time.
  • grc5grc5 Member Posts: 4
    Just test drove 1999 Golf GL (Demo) 5 spd. Great road car for the money, great dash lights, good pull off the line. To me, feels much more solid than Civic and seems to have more room for stuff.

    But...at 60mph, the engine revs over 3200rpm. Can 5th gear ratios be changed as an option from the factory? aftermarket? Any suggestions?
  • kclckclc Member Posts: 1
    Through a series of links I have, much to my amusement, ended up here. I too have this dilemma! I have already compared the numbers on The Auto Channel's tach compare-a-graph,(which I recommend for people like myself who are limited in car knowledge)as well as comparisons on other sites. So I believe I must be down to the test drive. What I really need to know is if anyone has driven the Honda on in snow? I have heard that the VW does very well so if the Honda is comparable does the 3,500 extra buy more than ABS and comfort features? It seems that Honda has a little better trade in value in the long run. Any info is more than I have, thanks!
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    No, you won't be able to change gearing. And you probably wouldn't want to. The 2.0 liter engine is underpowered for the car. You'd be making a bad situation worse. You might try the diesel version if you think the 2.0 is too busy. Or you could wait until Q1 2000, when the 1.8 Turbo may be available.
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    The GTI GLS is way underpowered. 0-60 in over 10 seconds. You could get the GTI GLX, 0-60 in 7 seconds. The GLX is great fun to drive (I bought one). Or you could wait until Q1 2000 when the GTI GLS should be available with the 1.8 Turbo engine.

    The VWs have a different feel than Hondas, with some pluses and some minuses. I suggest that you test drive both to decide which YOU think is more fun to drive. What I like may not be what you like.
  • jtaimjtaim Member Posts: 34
    If you want low revs on the highway, get the TDI. At 60mph it's spinning at 2200rpm. It's at about 2800rpm at 80mph. Nice and quiet.

    jtm
  • dhkdhk Member Posts: 49
    After looking at lots of cars, Im kind of interested in the Golf or Beetle TDI. You mention the tall gearing, but does the car have enough power to pull hills at 75-80mph in 5th?

    Also, would be interested to know what fuel economy you're getting. I've heard 50 mpg highway.
  • jason325jason325 Member Posts: 5
    I'm going to a VW dealer next week to negotiate for a 2000 VW Golf GLS automatic with no additional options. If I did my homework right, the dealer invoice price is $16,557. I would like to negotiate a purchase price of $17,000. Is this a realistic figure? Has anyone gotten a better price then this? I'm in the Washington DC area.
  • jtaimjtaim Member Posts: 34
    It would depend on the hills, of course, but from what I've read from TDI owners, TDI's have no problems with hills that require most other cars to down-shift. You can look at the numbers and see why: 155ft-lbs of torque at 1900rpm. That's a lot of torque for a 2800lb car!
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