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I've been driving a Jetta 1.8T for the past year, I love the 1.8T engine. I cant afford the car anymore, so I'm looking at a 2.0 Golf. How much of a step down in performance will this be? I dont race or anything, but I like the way the 1.8T feels and kinda worried that the 2.0 will be HUGE step down.
Thanks
I'm a first time car buyer, trying to decide between going w/ slightly used Civic hatchback or Golf. Probably looking at around $10,000 to spend, but yet wanting to get the most for my $$$!
I have found some of each car in my area, one Civic, a '99, 43000 miles @ $8500. Seems pretty reasonable. Most Golfs in my price range fall into the 97-99's or so, and I have heard these to be pretty poor years for VW.
Any advice?
just curious
Do not bother buying a 2.0 Gas if you are coming off driving a 1.8T. You are giving up about 50 or 60 hp. If you want to save money, buy diesel. It gets way better mileage and will last forever.
My parents have a 2.0 gas which is fine, but after being taken for a ride in a 1.8T GTI, there is no comparison. It is a rocket on wheels.
Re: VW 2.0L comments above, beware the oil consumption of a used (or even new) 2.0L. Why VW doesn't offer the much more moderen and refined non-turbo 1.8L in the U.S. is beyond me.
(My apologies if these issues have been tackled; I'm an infrequent board reader/poster)
The current 2.0 won't be around much longer in the U.S. The current Mk IV Golf is due to be replaced with the Mk V next year. VW is increasing the displacement of the 1.8 to 2.0 and will be offering both versions of this new engine in the V in both turbo and non-turbo form. The new Golf will have all sorts of new equipment, knee air bags and foam filled doors for better crash protection plus a new suspension with multilink rear suspension just a few of the updates.
Re: VW 2.0L comments above, beware the oil consumption of a used (or even new) 2.0L. Why VW doesn't offer the much more moderen and refined non-turbo 1.8L in the U.S. is beyond me.
(My apologies if these issues have been tackled; I'm an infrequent board reader/poster)"
I think if you look hard you can get an Si for $15K and it is indeed a perfect city vehicle with broad torque and a shifter that just fits snugly into the palm of you hand. stop and go have never been more fun.
and will be going with the golf cuz of the much better warranty and road side assistance program 4-50,000 basic warranty
5-60,000 powertrain and as i mentioned the road side assistance i dont like buying cars every 2 years so i figured haveing the golf will give me at least 5 years of piece of mind plus when i went to the vw dealership last sunday about 2 hours before they opened i grabbed my cds and sat in a golfgls with the 8 speaker surround sound monsoon system and just had a great time listeing to my music till the dealership opened in my opinion the 8 speaker stereo system in the car is a real selling point compared to the civic which has just a adequite stereo with 4 speakers i think, it just depends if you like music as much as i do. anyway, thanks for your time. steve
Maybe you mean 140 KM since thats as far as VW's get before a major breakdown. LOL!!! I kill me.
Please DONT assume that because a car is built in Germany, german engineers will be hovering over cars with t-squares and and Zeiss lenses. The german plants mostly employ Turk labourers, and choice of build location has more to do with tax breaks and politics.
Nevertheless, if you still must know where your car is built, it's best to check the VIN.
-betterbydesign
I still havnt seen any Hondas that have been able to keep up at a decent rate of speed over a long distance before their cars and drivers simply wear out.
Maybe you should stick to the little fast n furious street races that hondas are good fer.
regards.
Speaking of fast and the furious, aren't EL (indiglo) gauges standard on VW from the factory? aren't 17 inch wheels are optional on VW? Honda does not offer "Fast and furious" reverse indiglo gauges or 17 inch wheels.
The only thing VW has going for it is the availability of turbo 4 (1.8T) and VR6. 2.0 Jetta is no comparison for any Honda Civic, and the fact that it is priced like an Accord makes it lose in the price category.
I had a Jetta before I switched back to Honda. Yes it had the fun factor, but constant fear of something failing was too much for me to keep it. It was fine through college, but after I graduated and started commuting 30 miles to work, Jetta could not take the "abuse" I had to get the power steering pump replaced 2 times, water pump 3 times, alternator, shocks, coil packs, window regulators and all that in the first 30,000 miles.
When I was ready to trade her in, I was in for another shock, the re-sale was non-existent. I got rid of Jetta in 99, got a Civic EX. When I was ready to get something different I got a very good trade in value, I ended up being able to get a fully loaded CR-V SE because of the positive equity I had on the Civic. This year we ended up needing another car, without a doubt I went to honda and got the Si for my self so the other half can have the CR-V. After 8 months, just out of curiosity, wanted to see what my trade in was. Guess what, I was offered $300 less that what I paid, 8 months and 8000 miles ago. Now try to get that on a VW. One of the posters on ephatch.com wants to dump his 1.8T jetta in favor of the new Si. His Jetta is 1 year old, he was offered $10,000 on the trade. This was originally sold for over $20K. To me that is un-acceptable.
The Si matched and exceeded the fun factor of the Jetta. 160 naturally aspirated horses vs. 180 turboed horses, just like anyone can make pea soup, anyone can turbo an engine.
The 1.8T is however more potent than the Si 2.0 I say that because of the tremendous low end torque produced by the 1.8T. Anyway, all this changes when the new generation of Golf comes out in a few months. It will have the gasoline direct injection engine, something Honda doesn't offer, as well as excellent diesel engines which offer bulldozer-like torque and fuel economy in the mid 40s.
True, on re-sale and reliability Honda kills VW, but some of us like to work on our cars once in a while and don't understand why someone would want to sell it?
From a Drivers Point of view (again and again) The Civic, no matter what engine you put into it, cannot hold any speed compared to any VW Golf. Iam not talking about reaching 200 mph for 10 seconds and saying you did it. Iam saying doing 150+mph and HOLDING THAT SPEED for a good distance for a real commute and actually going somewhere.
Stock Rim packages and lower stances are common place now from manufacturers of all sorts; Chrysler, Nissan and VW, so it's no big deal. The cops, however still continue to pull over the wannabe fast n furious Honda's though...wonder why.
Stock Rim packages and lower stances are common place now from manufacturers of all sorts; Chrysler, Nissan and VW, so it's no big deal. The cops, however still continue to pull over the wannabe fast n furious Honda's though...wonder why."""""""""""""
I don't care what you drive, if you intend on doing 150 mph as commuter speed, I don't want to be anywhere near you. I stick to my 70-80 mph for commuting. If you can get your VW to do 150 I want to know what you did with your speed limiter, as I remember from my days of owning a VW it was limited at 130 mph, as per manual. The fastest I ever done in my Si was 120 mph(bone stock) at Pocono speedway. For $30 or so you get to drive a few laps.
I am sorry, but I DO NOT HAVE A DEATH WISH OR WISH ANYONE DEATH by doing that speed on public roads. I think you really need help and you need it soon!!!!
"""""""""The Golf would be my choice. More standard safety equipment with ABS standard and curtain and side airbags standard. Better seats (and heated too), better interior, better stereo, overall it provides more of a luxury experience than the Civic.""""""""""
Si came with standard ABS and EBD, side airbags can be had for $200. I agree Recarro seats are not for wide bottomed 70% of the US population. Luckily I work out and stay slender to have the standard Si Recarros fit me like a glove. Heated seats on the Golf only come when your chose leather interior. I had leather before, and it is in no way a performance seating surface. Slippery seats do not hold a person well. You lose more time trying to stay in the seat than enjoying your drive. Luckily for me Alacantra (Faux suede) seats have perfect grip and are comfortable. And the frosting on the cake is that Si costs at least $5000 less than a comparably equipped Golf.
ABS is standard on Si but not on DX or LX Civics.
Recaros are nice. Too bad they are not equipped on any current North America Civics. The seats in the Type R are Recaro, the seats in the Si are not Recaro according to Recaro and Honda USA. Recaro ARE available in a VW. The GTI. And I never at any time stated that you were wide bottomed.
MSRP for Civic EX is $17,970 and Golf GLS $18,095. Where is the $5000 difference. A GTI is $19065 and a Si is $19000. Where is the $5000 difference.
Side airbags are available as an extra cost option on the Civic, unfortunate that Honda does not even offer as an option curtain airbags and VW includes them as Standard.
I haven't driven the GTI, so I've got no seat-of-pants impressions to offer. The paper impression (90 hp, soft suspension, luxo interior, VW reliability, high price) is such that I'm just not interested.
How else can you compare prices and agree w/o using MSRP? Find 10 identical cars sold to 10 different people and you will find 9 different prices paid. MSRP is a fair comparison.
It's okay with me if you wanna think of the Si as a $19K car. I had a friend sit in mine and guess I paid $30K. The truth is, however, I paid $15.8 in December and I rate that deal as middling good.
I've only driven the Civic out of the two, and the only MT I've tried (a 92 hatchback) was hardly boring. But then, I've learned to have fun in my 4spd Tercel so that's not saying much. So I'm used to the feeling of a light, nimble car (my favorite acceleration is centripetal) and the Golf seems awfully heavy. Does it drive like it's heavy?
I do like the Golf's look and interior more. But I've heard horror stories of windows falling into the doors and lots of similar problems. The Consumer Ratings on this site are full of them. My family also has a strong distrust of VWs, but the two we owned were from the early 80s. The Mexican built cars don't seem all that trustworthy either. But reliability isn't as important to me as enjoying the commute and being able to carry 3-4 people or all my worldy possessions (not at the same time). And autocrossing.
So someone please talk about the Golf's weight, and why the Edmunds review says its handling "isn't suited for at the limit driving."
The speeds that are achieved are not done during rush hour with commuters and never at a time to attract attention. Where your concern "should" lie is with cars not properly able to handle speed making unsafe lane changes, attracting attention and showboating. It does not take 150 mph to kill someone. There are many slow dangerous drivers that have achieved your concerns. In fact, accident that happen at lower speeds likely won't kill, but will just leave someone paralyzed for life to think about it.
The point I re-emphasize is from a drivers view, it is a joke to compare civic to a vw golf. The reason so many fast n furious seekers like Hondas is because they "feel like" they are going really fast, which I suppose could be "fun," but really isn't something I look for. If a car feels like its going faster than it actually is, its actually an indication of poor auto workmanship. If you want to buy a great camera, buy Japanese; leave the cars to Germans. I have been in M3's and M5 at very high speeds. The driving (and conversion) in those cars was both quiet and controlled. If someone decides to make a lane change in the someone else's path, the error is the lane change; not the speed. The speed only emphasizes the error. To be fair to comments on reliability and re-sale values. I owned an Accord EXR for 4 years. Never any problems and great re-sale value...but so what???
I do respect your comments and concerns to speed.
Regards, betterbydesign.
The 'W' fans into handling seem to spend a little (not a lot) on suspension mods and say they're real happy.
Since you mention that we should buy German cars, Si WAS designed by Honda's German division. And as much as you may hate it, it drives better than a VW. I felt perfectly stable and under control when I took her to the speedway. You may have been thinking of plebeian DX or LX, but Si is a different breed. I think you owe it to your self to go out there and test drive the Si. GTI without suspension re-done is a dog, it shows its 20 year old design with torsion bar rear axle. 17 inch wheels do not make a car go faster either. Besides speed is only one component of enthusiastic driving. I can be driving 40 mph on a very twisty road and not fall off the cliff, I would like to see stock Golf/GTI keep up with me.
Why do youkeep bringing up "Fast and Furious"? Is it because you actually like the movie? I think I speak for majority of people when I say that "Fast and Furious" does not represent enthusiast market. It glorified and exaguratted what Sport Compact market was not. Are you upset that the second part had no VW in it? (the first part had the Jetta)
I have to give props to VW for creating the market though. The original GTI was the car to have in 1982. As a matter of fact the whole compact hatchback class in Europe is called Golf class. But come on, we all evolve and GTI/Golf/Rabbit has outlived its glory. It is time for a major redesign.
Recarros- due to unknown issues Honda can not label stock Si seats as Recarros, but if you visit Recarros website you will see that they are identical. They may not be RED and Black, but the basic design and shape is retained.
By the way, I was asked the other day if my black Si was the new Golf by a middle aged guy in an Audi. I guess the re-designed Golf will be similar to the Si.
If a stock GTI was behind a Si on a roadcourse it would only be due to poor driving.
I'm getting off topic here, since GTI is not a Golf, and there is a GTI vs. Si topic.
The future of VW in both design and performance appears to be going very, very soft and Iam dissappointed to say the least. In regards to the new Golf V....no comment.
Definitely, fun and price factor Honda wins in spades. By the time you purchase a VW, make the required changes just to match stock Honda, and then on top of that hope to hell you didnt get a lemon, you might need to sit down for a breath.
I just happened to do all of the above and ended up with VW Golf that handles like a magnet.
Best regards
Betterbydesign.
Any more Interstate recommendations are greatly appreciated. Scenic speeds are most sought after.
Thanks and see you at the reststops.
Betterbydesign
Then, there are the Appalachians in West Virginia. Some very nice 4 laners in those mountains (unfortunately, like the interstates in general, approaching the car limit puts you waaaaaay over the speed limit), and they plant wild flowers in the medians.
Looove those winding road 'snake' signs with lower speed limits posted on 'em!
(Great dealing, too!)
;~}!
(Congrats on everything else, too.)
She's gonna kill me for that.
Good for ya'll!
(Thought about the Hondata chip for your Si?)
Revka
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