VW Golf vs Honda Civic

d7sub · March 2002

is there a recommended way i should be downshifting as well?

chem123 · March 2002

Just rev match and you should be fine.

sizzla123 · May 2002

Hi all,

I've been driving a Jetta 1.8T for the past year, I love the 1.8T engine. I cant afford the car anymore, so I'm looking at a 2.0 Golf. How much of a step down in performance will this be? I dont race or anything, but I like the way the 1.8T feels and kinda worried that the 2.0 will be HUGE step down.

Thanks

curious38 · July 2002

Hello,

I'm a first time car buyer, trying to decide between going w/ slightly used Civic hatchback or Golf. Probably looking at around $10,000 to spend, but yet wanting to get the most for my $$$!

I have found some of each car in my area, one Civic, a '99, 43000 miles @ $8500. Seems pretty reasonable. Most Golfs in my price range fall into the 97-99's or so, and I have heard these to be pretty poor years for VW.

Any advice?

chem123 · July 2002

Exactly one year ago I purchased a 98 Civic DX hatchback with 45K mi for $7900. It seems like you are in a similar situation as I was then. Back then and still now, I cannot trust VW. Everything I have gathered from owners and research tells me buying a VW is just not a good car-owning experience. I hate to brand one company like that, but VW is the only one that fits. Any current owner who disagrees is either lucky or oblivious.

jmatero · July 2002

I'm in the same boat... Have a passat with 1.8T (chipped none the less) and I'm looking to save money by stepping down....way down I guess) and was thinking Golf GL or GLS. I, too, am worried about the power issue. I drove a 2.0 beetle a/t before I bought the Passat and found the power to be adequate. However, that was before driving the 1.8T. However, there's a lot to consider over just the Power... You get 4-wheel discs, Front/Side AND curtain airbags, high-quality feeling Dash and materials, better warranty than the imports (excluding the elantra I guess) amongst other things. You have to give up something moving down scale... Power is it I guess.

mogas · July 2002

I have owned both. I bought a new 1992 VW Golf GLS back in '92. I will never own one again. I had more problems with that damn car by 1994 than I care to mention. I have owned four Honda products in my 33 years of life ('85 Prelude, '87 Integra, '92 Prelude and a '97 Civic) and all have run like champs with only minor problems. VW seems to use better quality interior materials though and the VW SEEMS very sturdy but I had lots of problems with mine. It's now 2002 so maybe VW fixed some of the issues I was having with mine but I'll never own another VW again unless its free. I'm not saying Honda is a MUCH better car than the VW, I just seem to have better luck with Honda. I won't own another Nissan as long as I live either, but that's a different story...

m9431 · December 2002

I've owned 4 Hondas and 4 VWs and currently one one of each, (Accord and Golf) both 2002 models. VW has made much progress in improving quality (reliability). Honda still tends to be more reliable (although my 2001 Honda was a lemon). Yet if you enjoy driving, the VW is heads and tails above--I drive 700 miles a week. The latest Civic (except for the Si) is one of the WORST cars I've driven--period. The Golf is one of the best, short of a BMW. The VW is more substantial, while the Honda feels tinny by comparison.

srockr · December 2002

What problems plaqued your 01 Civic? I just bought an 03 Civic and really like it.

just curious

wings02 · January 2003

Sizzla 123 -

Do not bother buying a 2.0 Gas if you are coming off driving a 1.8T. You are giving up about 50 or 60 hp. If you want to save money, buy diesel. It gets way better mileage and will last forever.

My parents have a 2.0 gas which is fine, but after being taken for a ride in a 1.8T GTI, there is no comparison. It is a rocket on wheels.

scooter71 · January 2003

Interesting board, but not sure how you can compare the Golf and Civic until Honda offers non-Si 3-doors and 5-doors in the U.S. (as they do in the UK). As I posted on the Si board, I'd love the choice of a 3 or 5 door Civic hatchback, 1.7L motor, EX-level equipment, and sticker at $15k. It would be such a perfect city car for me.

Re: VW 2.0L comments above, beware the oil consumption of a used (or even new) 2.0L. Why VW doesn't offer the much more moderen and refined non-turbo 1.8L in the U.S. is beyond me.

(My apologies if these issues have been tackled; I'm an infrequent board reader/poster)

rickrover · January 2003

I had the 2.0 engine in one of my last VW's - it didn't use a drop of oil between 5k mile oil changes.

The current 2.0 won't be around much longer in the U.S. The current Mk IV Golf is due to be replaced with the Mk V next year. VW is increasing the displacement of the 1.8 to 2.0 and will be offering both versions of this new engine in the V in both turbo and non-turbo form. The new Golf will have all sorts of new equipment, knee air bags and foam filled doors for better crash protection plus a new suspension with multilink rear suspension just a few of the updates.

dudka · March 2003

"Interesting board, but not sure how you can compare the Golf and Civic until Honda offers non-Si 3-doors and 5-doors in the U.S. (as they do in the UK). As I posted on the Si board, I'd love the choice of a 3 or 5 door Civic hatchback, 1.7L motor, EX-level equipment, and sticker at $15k. It would be such a perfect city car for me.

Re: VW 2.0L comments above, beware the oil consumption of a used (or even new) 2.0L. Why VW doesn't offer the much more moderen and refined non-turbo 1.8L in the U.S. is beyond me.

(My apologies if these issues have been tackled; I'm an infrequent board reader/poster)"

I think if you look hard you can get an Si for $15K and it is indeed a perfect city vehicle with broad torque and a shifter that just fits snugly into the palm of you hand. stop and go have never been more fun.

steven39 · April 2003

hello, well i have narrowed down my choices between honda civic, and a golf gls auto
and will be going with the golf cuz of the much better warranty and road side assistance program 4-50,000 basic warranty
5-60,000 powertrain and as i mentioned the road side assistance i dont like buying cars every 2 years so i figured haveing the golf will give me at least 5 years of piece of mind plus when i went to the vw dealership last sunday about 2 hours before they opened i grabbed my cds and sat in a golfgls with the 8 speaker surround sound monsoon system and just had a great time listeing to my music till the dealership opened in my opinion the 8 speaker stereo system in the car is a real selling point compared to the civic which has just a adequite stereo with 4 speakers i think, it just depends if you like music as much as i do. anyway, thanks for your time. steve

betterbydesign · September 2003

Ummmm. other than hatches, where the heck are the similarities? I can you a main difference...After you get beyond 140 kph, I dont see any Honda's anywhere.

gee35coupe · September 2003

rev limited 130 MPH. That's well over 200Kph. Thank you.

Maybe you mean 140 KM since thats as far as VW's get before a major breakdown. LOL!!! I kill me.

betterbydesign · September 2003

To answer questions I see on build quality and locations you really should not rely on salespeople to know what is going on. Check the VIN # yourself. The first digit on the VIN indicates country where car is made: 1 - USA; 2- Canada; 3 - Mexico; W- Germany, J - Japan, etc, etc.

Please DONT assume that because a car is built in Germany, german engineers will be hovering over cars with t-squares and and Zeiss lenses. The german plants mostly employ Turk labourers, and choice of build location has more to do with tax breaks and politics.
Nevertheless, if you still must know where your car is built, it's best to check the VIN.

-betterbydesign

betterbydesign · September 2003

My golf has 279,000 kms with no breakdowns, major or minor. As far as "speed," I would like know how long you actually kept your "civic" at this speed before you and your car started to shake and slow down for the rest of us to pass you.

I still havnt seen any Hondas that have been able to keep up at a decent rate of speed over a long distance before their cars and drivers simply wear out.

Maybe you should stick to the little fast n furious street races that hondas are good fer.

regards.

gee35coupe · September 2003

Does not a reliable brand make.

dudka · September 2003

Just to be clear Honda wins hands down. Honda is better designed, engineered and in most cases better built.

Speaking of fast and the furious, aren't EL (indiglo) gauges standard on VW from the factory? aren't 17 inch wheels are optional on VW? Honda does not offer "Fast and furious" reverse indiglo gauges or 17 inch wheels.

The only thing VW has going for it is the availability of turbo 4 (1.8T) and VR6. 2.0 Jetta is no comparison for any Honda Civic, and the fact that it is priced like an Accord makes it lose in the price category.

I had a Jetta before I switched back to Honda. Yes it had the fun factor, but constant fear of something failing was too much for me to keep it. It was fine through college, but after I graduated and started commuting 30 miles to work, Jetta could not take the "abuse" I had to get the power steering pump replaced 2 times, water pump 3 times, alternator, shocks, coil packs, window regulators and all that in the first 30,000 miles.

When I was ready to trade her in, I was in for another shock, the re-sale was non-existent. I got rid of Jetta in 99, got a Civic EX. When I was ready to get something different I got a very good trade in value, I ended up being able to get a fully loaded CR-V SE because of the positive equity I had on the Civic. This year we ended up needing another car, without a doubt I went to honda and got the Si for my self so the other half can have the CR-V. After 8 months, just out of curiosity, wanted to see what my trade in was. Guess what, I was offered $300 less that what I paid, 8 months and 8000 miles ago. Now try to get that on a VW. One of the posters on ephatch.com wants to dump his 1.8T jetta in favor of the new Si. His Jetta is 1 year old, he was offered $10,000 on the trade. This was originally sold for over $20K. To me that is un-acceptable.

The Si matched and exceeded the fun factor of the Jetta. 160 naturally aspirated horses vs. 180 turboed horses, just like anyone can make pea soup, anyone can turbo an engine.

rivertown · September 2003

Nice post, Dudka.

mdriver · September 2003

Actually, VW build quality is better than Honda's, but reliability isn't as good. Yes there is a difference. The VW is very well finished. In the Civic, you can see the welds where the window frame meets the door (inside close to side mirror). You won't find such exposed welds in the VW interior. But, I agree, that doesn't make it more reliable. VW's weakness is mostly in electrical systems (I'm not excusing them).

The 1.8T is however more potent than the Si 2.0 I say that because of the tremendous low end torque produced by the 1.8T. Anyway, all this changes when the new generation of Golf comes out in a few months. It will have the gasoline direct injection engine, something Honda doesn't offer, as well as excellent diesel engines which offer bulldozer-like torque and fuel economy in the mid 40s.

gee35coupe · September 2003

Have a usable rev range of 3000 rpm or less. Just what the Si or even the GTI needs. Honda already has competent engine pushing 50 mpg. But they just started selling diesels in Europe, if the market arises here they'll be ready. So far diesel cars are a joke in the land of the 10 MPG SUV.

betterbydesign · September 2003

Ummm...with any due respect, I am sure if you buy a TOYOTA, then that would make you really, really happy??? Then there would be no explaination why VW, Jaguar, Range Rover, and Audi CONTINUE TO SELL despite less than stellar reliability ONLY compared to Honda and Toyota. Toyota then Honda has the edge on build quality over VW...there are almost no seams or gaps at all. But, Simply put: You missed the point.

True, on re-sale and reliability Honda kills VW, but some of us like to work on our cars once in a while and don't understand why someone would want to sell it?

From a Drivers Point of view (again and again) The Civic, no matter what engine you put into it, cannot hold any speed compared to any VW Golf. Iam not talking about reaching 200 mph for 10 seconds and saying you did it. Iam saying doing 150+mph and HOLDING THAT SPEED for a good distance for a real commute and actually going somewhere.

Stock Rim packages and lower stances are common place now from manufacturers of all sorts; Chrysler, Nissan and VW, so it's no big deal. The cops, however still continue to pull over the wannabe fast n furious Honda's though...wonder why.

moparbad · September 2003

The Golf would be my choice. More standard safety equipment with ABS standard and curtain and side airbags standard. Better seats (and heated too), better interior, better stereo, overall it provides more of a luxury experience than the Civic. First Golf had the famous falling windows and that was only problem. Second Golf had window trim replaced and has been trouble free. My Civic Si had problems from the first week. Emissions system problems requiring parts replacement, poor interior assembly (the exterior assembly was flawless), radio failed, and the Check Engine light was an intermittent problem at the very end of ownership. 2002 Civic was a big disappointment so I traded it on a 2002 VW Golf TDI.

dudka · September 2003

""""""""From a Drivers Point of view (again and again) The Civic, no matter what engine you put into it, cannot hold any speed compared to any VW Golf. Iam not talking about reaching 200 mph for 10 seconds and saying you did it. Iam saying doing 150+mph and HOLDING THAT SPEED for a good distance for a real commute and actually going somewhere.
Stock Rim packages and lower stances are common place now from manufacturers of all sorts; Chrysler, Nissan and VW, so it's no big deal. The cops, however still continue to pull over the wannabe fast n furious Honda's though...wonder why."""""""""""""

I don't care what you drive, if you intend on doing 150 mph as commuter speed, I don't want to be anywhere near you. I stick to my 70-80 mph for commuting. If you can get your VW to do 150 I want to know what you did with your speed limiter, as I remember from my days of owning a VW it was limited at 130 mph, as per manual. The fastest I ever done in my Si was 120 mph(bone stock) at Pocono speedway. For $30 or so you get to drive a few laps.
I am sorry, but I DO NOT HAVE A DEATH WISH OR WISH ANYONE DEATH by doing that speed on public roads. I think you really need help and you need it soon!!!!

"""""""""The Golf would be my choice. More standard safety equipment with ABS standard and curtain and side airbags standard. Better seats (and heated too), better interior, better stereo, overall it provides more of a luxury experience than the Civic.""""""""""

Si came with standard ABS and EBD, side airbags can be had for $200. I agree Recarro seats are not for wide bottomed 70% of the US population. Luckily I work out and stay slender to have the standard Si Recarros fit me like a glove. Heated seats on the Golf only come when your chose leather interior. I had leather before, and it is in no way a performance seating surface. Slippery seats do not hold a person well. You lose more time trying to stay in the seat than enjoying your drive. Luckily for me Alacantra (Faux suede) seats have perfect grip and are comfortable. And the frosting on the cake is that Si costs at least $5000 less than a comparably equipped Golf.

moparbad · September 2003

You stated that you must choose leather to get heated seats. Leather is not even an option on Golf, only GTI, and heated seats are available on even the GL models.
ABS is standard on Si but not on DX or LX Civics.
Recaros are nice. Too bad they are not equipped on any current North America Civics. The seats in the Type R are Recaro, the seats in the Si are not Recaro according to Recaro and Honda USA. Recaro ARE available in a VW. The GTI. And I never at any time stated that you were wide bottomed.
MSRP for Civic EX is $17,970 and Golf GLS $18,095. Where is the $5000 difference. A GTI is $19065 and a Si is $19000. Where is the $5000 difference.
Side airbags are available as an extra cost option on the Civic, unfortunate that Honda does not even offer as an option curtain airbags and VW includes them as Standard.

rivertown · September 2003

TCO's on an Si and a GTI are so close that there's no real difference, until you compare street prices. Dunno what you can get a GTI for, but too many folks have gotten Si's for less than $17K to make a sentence containing Si and MSRP anything but rediculous.

I haven't driven the GTI, so I've got no seat-of-pants impressions to offer. The paper impression (90 hp, soft suspension, luxo interior, VW reliability, high price) is such that I'm just not interested.

moparbad · September 2003

When you state 90HP are you referring to the Civic Hybrid? It has 93HP. The GTI has 180HP. The Golf TDI has comparable HP to the Civic Hybrid at 90HP but it whomps it with 155lb/ft of torque for VW compared to 116lb/ft for the Civic.

How else can you compare prices and agree w/o using MSRP? Find 10 identical cars sold to 10 different people and you will find 9 different prices paid. MSRP is a fair comparison.

rivertown · September 2003

You're right, Mopar, I was looking and thinking TDI.

It's okay with me if you wanna think of the Si as a $19K car. I had a friend sit in mine and guess I paid $30K. The truth is, however, I paid $15.8 in December and I rate that deal as middling good.

carlisimo · September 2003

I'm going to be buying a hatchback in a year or two, and have been considering both of these (the Si or GTi if conditions permit it).

I've only driven the Civic out of the two, and the only MT I've tried (a 92 hatchback) was hardly boring. But then, I've learned to have fun in my 4spd Tercel so that's not saying much. So I'm used to the feeling of a light, nimble car (my favorite acceleration is centripetal) and the Golf seems awfully heavy. Does it drive like it's heavy?

I do like the Golf's look and interior more. But I've heard horror stories of windows falling into the doors and lots of similar problems. The Consumer Ratings on this site are full of them. My family also has a strong distrust of VWs, but the two we owned were from the early 80s. The Mexican built cars don't seem all that trustworthy either. But reliability isn't as important to me as enjoying the commute and being able to carry 3-4 people or all my worldy possessions (not at the same time). And autocrossing.

So someone please talk about the Golf's weight, and why the Edmunds review says its handling "isn't suited for at the limit driving."

betterbydesign · September 2003

Governators, chips or limiters can be modified, recalibrated or simply removed.

The speeds that are achieved are not done during rush hour with commuters and never at a time to attract attention. Where your concern "should" lie is with cars not properly able to handle speed making unsafe lane changes, attracting attention and showboating. It does not take 150 mph to kill someone. There are many slow dangerous drivers that have achieved your concerns. In fact, accident that happen at lower speeds likely won't kill, but will just leave someone paralyzed for life to think about it.

The point I re-emphasize is from a drivers view, it is a joke to compare civic to a vw golf. The reason so many fast n furious seekers like Hondas is because they "feel like" they are going really fast, which I suppose could be "fun," but really isn't something I look for. If a car feels like its going faster than it actually is, its actually an indication of poor auto workmanship. If you want to buy a great camera, buy Japanese; leave the cars to Germans. I have been in M3's and M5 at very high speeds. The driving (and conversion) in those cars was both quiet and controlled. If someone decides to make a lane change in the someone else's path, the error is the lane change; not the speed. The speed only emphasizes the error. To be fair to comments on reliability and re-sale values. I owned an Accord EXR for 4 years. Never any problems and great re-sale value...but so what???

I do respect your comments and concerns to speed.

Regards, betterbydesign.

rivertown · September 2003

(without seat-of-pants experience to draw upon), I gather that the GTI suspension is sorta mushy/vague and limited by a non-independent rear axle.
The 'W' fans into handling seem to spend a little (not a lot) on suspension mods and say they're real happy.

dudka · September 2003

When I was looking to buy a car a VW GTI bone stock was selling for around $20K, I got Si with the same content for $15,500.

Since you mention that we should buy German cars, Si WAS designed by Honda's German division. And as much as you may hate it, it drives better than a VW. I felt perfectly stable and under control when I took her to the speedway. You may have been thinking of plebeian DX or LX, but Si is a different breed. I think you owe it to your self to go out there and test drive the Si. GTI without suspension re-done is a dog, it shows its 20 year old design with torsion bar rear axle. 17 inch wheels do not make a car go faster either. Besides speed is only one component of enthusiastic driving. I can be driving 40 mph on a very twisty road and not fall off the cliff, I would like to see stock Golf/GTI keep up with me.

Why do youkeep bringing up "Fast and Furious"? Is it because you actually like the movie? I think I speak for majority of people when I say that "Fast and Furious" does not represent enthusiast market. It glorified and exaguratted what Sport Compact market was not. Are you upset that the second part had no VW in it? (the first part had the Jetta)

I have to give props to VW for creating the market though. The original GTI was the car to have in 1982. As a matter of fact the whole compact hatchback class in Europe is called Golf class. But come on, we all evolve and GTI/Golf/Rabbit has outlived its glory. It is time for a major redesign.

Recarros- due to unknown issues Honda can not label stock Si seats as Recarros, but if you visit Recarros website you will see that they are identical. They may not be RED and Black, but the basic design and shape is retained.

By the way, I was asked the other day if my black Si was the new Golf by a middle aged guy in an Audi. I guess the re-designed Golf will be similar to the Si.

moparbad · September 2003

GTI is faster in straight line. Has better lateral g roadholding. Is faster in slalom testing. It is faster on the track.

If a stock GTI was behind a Si on a roadcourse it would only be due to poor driving.

I'm getting off topic here, since GTI is not a Golf, and there is a GTI vs. Si topic.

moparbad · September 2003

Since Recaro makes seats and I don't know what a Recarro is, maybe the seats in Si are Recarros.

epmathis · September 2003

I have to chime in here! Not all Honda drivers have the Fast and Furious mentality; my car is completely stock with no gaudy stickers, spoilers, etc. IMHO, the Civic has good handling capabilities, exceptional build quality, style, and that fun-to-drive quality that makes driving enjoyable! As far as sustained high speed driving goes, it's no BMW, but the Civic feels stable, comfortable, and refined at triple digit speeds. As a previous owner of a 2001 Jetta, I respect VWs, but Honda is becoming more competitive in terms of engineering, build quality/workmanship, and handling dynamics. Let's be thankful we can choose among so many appealing cars!

gee35coupe · September 2003

for over 30 mins straight. Only thing wrong was that it semed to be really thirsty at those speeds.

moparbad · September 2003

Which track did you have your Civic at 110 mph for 30 minutes? Yes, gasoline disappears very quickly at high speeds:)

gee35coupe · September 2003

South to Fla in Alabama. You can get some nice high speed cruising on Interstate 20 east out of Altanta. It's desolate and straight.

rivertown · September 2003

is good for 100mph+ if you watch out. Yup, mpg sorta sucks up there.

betterbydesign · September 2003

Can't agree with you more. Any current Golf including GTI with stock suspension is plain dangerous. I had to change all springs and shocks within the first year and could not endure even trying to wear the stock suspension out. I think VW does this b/c they know that sport drivers will change it anyways; it keeps the price point down. If you consider a properly tuned VW straight from the dealer, the price points and volumes won't make sense and VW sales reps. will starve. The 25th Ann. Ed Golf comes close, (even with Recaro!) but that is an insurance claim waiting to happen.

The future of VW in both design and performance appears to be going very, very soft and Iam dissappointed to say the least. In regards to the new Golf V....no comment.

Definitely, fun and price factor Honda wins in spades. By the time you purchase a VW, make the required changes just to match stock Honda, and then on top of that hope to hell you didnt get a lemon, you might need to sit down for a breath.

I just happened to do all of the above and ended up with VW Golf that handles like a magnet.

Best regards
Betterbydesign.

betterbydesign · September 2003

As the little flag indicates, Iam live and work in Canada but like to vacation and drive strictly in the U.S. because drivers in Canada are still a bit low at the learning curve in regards to highway driving.

Any more Interstate recommendations are greatly appreciated. Scenic speeds are most sought after.

Thanks and see you at the reststops.

Betterbydesign

rivertown · October 2003

The most fun I've had in a car driving recently was in the Ozark Mountains along the Arkansas-Missouri border north and south of the Buffalo National River. Lots of twisty two laners, not much traffic, and usually good road surfaces with curves banked. It doesn't hurt that the scenery is gorgeous.
Then, there are the Appalachians in West Virginia. Some very nice 4 laners in those mountains (unfortunately, like the interstates in general, approaching the car limit puts you waaaaaay over the speed limit), and they plant wild flowers in the medians.
Looove those winding road 'snake' signs with lower speed limits posted on 'em!

gee35coupe · October 2003

I'm back!!! Bought a blue 2003 Si yesterday. Got it for $16,100 with fogs, flaps, mats, cargo net. I'm on cloud nine. I'm gonna drive this car til it drops.

rivertown · October 2003

Hot damn! Very cool!

(Great dealing, too!)

;~}!

(Congrats on everything else, too.)

gee35coupe · October 2003

Our family is (growing) quite nicely. :0

She's gonna kill me for that.

rivertown · October 2003

Glowing, too, I bet.
Good for ya'll!

(Thought about the Hondata chip for your Si?)

gee35coupe · October 2003

I'm gonna leave stock. I remember getting our old ones up to near 130. That's plenty fast for me. I may add some 16's in the future.

revka · October 2003

Congratulations! We look forward to hearing more details. ;-)

Revka
Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons

VW Golf vs Honda Civic

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