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Chevrolet/Geo Metro

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Comments

  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    Geo Metros did not use resistors on their coils. The image you saw in the manual is not a resistor, it is a radio interference suppression capacitor, which is part of the car's stock wiring harness.

    The Metro electronic ignition module has a built in current limiting circuit, which acts like a resistor to limit the coil current to a safe level. So you never should use a coil with a built in resistor (3 ohm primary winding) in this type of application.

    The coil you now have, which is marked "use with external resistor" has an appropriate 1.2-1.5 ohm primary resistance. However, that marking indicates it was intended for use in an engine that does not have electronic ignition.

    Coils that are intended for electronic ignition systems hava a similar primary resistance to your coil, but have a lower primary inductance, and higher turns ratios. And that will produce a stronger spark. It is best to use a coil that was designed for the Metro.

    If the replacement coil is connected backwards, that can produce a weak spark. The hot battery lead should go to the coil "+" terminal. And all the high tension leads going to the distributor cap should each have less than 1,000 ohms resistance per every inch of wire length. IE: a 7 inch long wire should have less than 7,000 ohms resistance.

    Another thing that can cause a weak spark is an ignition switch that has developed execessive resistance. Connect the plus lead of a voltmeter to the coil's plus terminal, and connect the minus voltmeter lead to the battery ground
    terminal. With the engine running, you should get a voltage reading that doesn't differ by more than 0.4 volt from the voltage measured across the battery under the same condition.

    I hope this helps.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    I also want to add that there are two common mistakes which lead to Geo Metro engines burning valves. One can happen if the ignition timing is adjusted without first disconnecting and plugging the vacuum lines to the two advance diaphragms. Not disconnecting those vacuum lines will result in the timing being set about 8 degrees retarded from the factory specification. And that's a guaranteed valve burner.

    The second mistake that can lead to Metro engines burning valves is to use the wrong spark plug heat range. Metro engines are more sensitive to plug heat range selection than probably any other stock engine out there. If you choose a spark plug from a cross-reference chart that compares it to another brand, there is a good chance you'll end up with the wrong plug. It's even worse if you use a particular plug in the Metro because it worked well in another type of engine. The ONLY safe way to select a plug is to look up your vehicle make, year, and engine model in a catalog published by the manufacturer of the same brand of plug that you intend to use.

    I have owned a 1990 Metro for the last 15 years, during which I have put nearly 200,000 miles on the engine. It has never burned a valve, or had any other internal engine problem. This is the best engineered vehicle I have ever owned. So I am saddened when I see people reporting problems that I know come from improper maintenance.
  • mailcarriermailcarrier Member Posts: 2
    I have a 96 metro 1.3 liter with the same problem. I have changed the engine, timing belt, crank sensor, and still have the 4 sparks then nothing. Changed the ECM and nothing. My last hope is to change the cam sensor in the distributor and the pick up. Good luck
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    There is one other possible cause, which I didn't mention in my previous post. The ignition switch may get an open circuit or develop excessive resistance in the "run" position. A switch that has gone bad in this manner may conduct adequately for the first few seconds, until the contacts heat up. Then it quits. Or, maybe the 4 sparks are all being produced while the key is held in the "start" position, and as soon as you release the key, and the switch snaps back to the "run" position, the circuit goes open.

    Try keeping the switch held in the start position AFTER the engine fires, and see if it continues to run that way. If it does, you've got an ignition switch with a bad "run" position.

    Joel
  • edonisedonis Member Posts: 2
    hey, I ran into the same problem too, did you fix the problem with the engine rough idle?
    I have read somewhere that it could be the fuel injection system.
    Your problem is like looking at my car.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    Considering that the "rough idle" message you responded to was originally posted in October of 2005, I don't think it's likely you'll get a reply from him now.

    I also have a 3 cyl Metro, which ran well, but idled very roughly, at the time I bought it. The previous owner seemed to think it had always run like that. I've now had that car for 15 years, and have found that the idle quality is very much affected by the brand and type of spark plug being used, and also by the adjustment of the air bypass screw in the throttle body.

    My Metro does not run well with NGK plugs. Because they're so popular, I've tried many different gap styles and heat ranges of NGKs, but none of them work as well as either Autolites, Champions, AC, or Bosch. The best all around plug has been the Autolite #63. (Yes, I know that is one heat range colder than the book recommends; but my engine runs and idles best with a slightly cooler plug.) My engine has excellent compression, and is not used for many short trips, so the plugs stay clean. For a car that gets more short trip driving, I'd probably use an AC #R42CXLS, which is the stock recommendation. Another excellent choice would be a Champion Truck plug; either #4430 or #4434. The #4430 is slightly less projected, and would do better on the highway; the #4434 would do better in city driving. Both of the Champion numbers mentioned here require a 5/8" plug socket, while the Autolite and the AC numbers I listed take the 13/16" socket that was standard for the Metro. But those plugs are otherwise completely interchangeable. And I make sure the gap is set to .043". Contrary to popular myth, most plugs do not come with their gap preset for your engine. A given plug will often be used in many different engine types, which do not all use the same gap. Since the Metro has an aluminum cylinder head, it is also very important to apply a light coating of "anti-seize compound" to the plug threads before installation. That will minimize the chance that the plug will bond itself to the head from corrosion. Otherwise, the next time the plug is removed, it might take the aluminum threads from the head out along with it. And that can create a major problem.

    But back to the issue of rough idling; once the proper plug is in the engine, and the motor is fully warmed up, readjusting the air bypass screw can make a big difference in idle quality. But be aware; THE IDLE BYPASS SCREW IS A VERY SENSITIVE ADJUSTMENT. Because of this, it is not recommended to try adjusting it unless you are experienced with adjusting fuel mixtures. Sometimes just 1/16 turn can make a big difference, but other times it may be 1 or 2 full turns off.

    And, of course, there can be no vacuum leaks in any hoses, and the ignition timing must be set correctly.

    I hope this helps.

    Joel
  • chnsaw14chnsaw14 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 1996 Geo Metro Coupe (2 Door), The running lights work but when I turn the head lights on they turn off but the back lights stay on. Have any ideas that can help me? Thanks
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    This kind of situation is usually caused by a loose or corroded ground connection from the front running light assemblies to the vehicle body. It also might come from the battery negative terminal being grounded to the engine, but not being also connected to the vehicle body.

    There should be a dedicated ground wire coming from each of the running light assemblies. Be sure either of them is not broken off or disconnected. And if the ground wire is connected to the body, it would be worth taking the connection apart, cleaning it until it is shiny, and scraping off any rust or paint that might be keeping the connector from pressing on bare metal.

    The original battery ground cable goes to a bolt on the engine; this cable also contains a second, smaller wire that is supposed to fasten to a bolt on the fender well. Sometimes people replace the ground cable with one that only goes to the engine. And that makes it very difficult for power coming from the lights to return to the battery. So, if your car does not have a second grounding wire from the battery negative post, you'll need to install a wire going from either the negative battery post, or any clean engine bolt, to any clean bolt on the fender or firewall.

    Let me know if this helps. Joel
  • whitetopwhitetop Member Posts: 36
    Hey guys - I'm still around, and still driving the same 93 Metro convertible to work every day. I still have some trouble with the rough idle at times, but it's not consistent. I have used several types of plugs. I currently am using Bosch. They seem to work pretty well, but the problem is still there some days. I keep my idle speed cranked up a bit to around 1,000, which helps to smooth it out.

    After driving the car for six years I do think it has something to do with a dirty fuel injector system. I periodically run a bottle of fuel injector cleaner through the gas tank and that does more good than anything to clean up the rough idle. I really don't know what to do do make a more permanent solution.

    Thanks for the detailed advice. I think my favorite thing about this car is you can drive it forever even when it's not operating at optimal level. My other car wants to shut itself down if you don't screw on the gas cap tight enough.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    From this distance, it is pretty difficult to sort out a problem of this type. But here are a few more possibilities: If the spark plug wires have developed excessive resistance, that could cause an intermittent rough idle. That can be checked by measuring the resistance of each wire with an ohmmeter. If any wire, including the one from the coil to the distributor cap, has more than 1000 ohms resistance per inch of length, then that wire is bad. I.E. A 14 inch long wire cannot have more than 14,000 ohms resistance. It is best to take each wire out of the distributor cap in order to measure its resistance. Trying to clip a meter probe onto a contact inside the cap can give misleadingly high readings. And be sure the carbon button in the center of the cap is still in place. Sometimes they fall out. That could cause a rough idle, too.

    Another possible cause could be a sticking EGR valve. Try (or ask a mechanic) to unbolt the EGR valve and thoroughly clean out the carbon from all the passages. Then work the stem back and forth, until you see that it moves and seats freely.

    If the intake manifold or the throttle body bolts have come loose, that could create air leaks which mess up the idle.

    Some brands of cheap fuel, or fuel which contains alcohol, can also create a rough idle. If you use the same brand of fuel all the time, try going to another station, or to a higher octane.

    And if the coolant thermostat has been removed, the engine will run too cold, and that will mess up the idle quality. Your temperature gauge should run 1/3 to 1/2 way up, under normal conditions.

    You say that you keep the idle speed cranked up. I hope you mean you just keep your foot on the gas a little when it is idling. If not, then how did you change the idle speed??? There is no adjustment for the idle speed on that engine. There is a stop for the throttle linkage, which is held in place by a lock nut. But that is not intended to be moved. Moving that stop will upset the air/fuel ratio, and will require resetting both the computer's throttle switch and the idle air bypass screw. And if that is not done, it will create a chronic rough idle.

    I would also like to know how rough a 'rough idle' is in your experience. An abnormally rough idle will make the gearshift lever bounce from side to side. Anything less than that in a 3 cylinder car may not be abnormal.

    See if any of that makes a difference.
  • nico1005nico1005 Member Posts: 4
    Hello Zaken1

    Sorry for my English

    When you change the plugs ... you must change and adjust if necesary the distance between central pin and ground of the plug .

    This must be 0.7 mm ( do it with a standard calibrated blade of 0.7 mm )

    If there are no changes ... try to adjust the central plugs regulator ( were all wires from plugs are meeting )
    Loos the screw and turn easily till the engine have the most hy turation or sounds good .

    After that if it's too turated ... adjust the turation from the gas admision screw at the top of the engine .

    Good luck and if you need details write me dicectly to e-mail : florinnicolici#ti.slr.com
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    It sounds like you are referring to a European car, or a different model. Geo Metros sold in the USA have a plug gap of 1.1 mm. Cars in this country haven't used 0.7 mm gaps for many years.

    And we don't set ignition timing by ear in this country, because the cars have to go through regular emission checks, where the timing is checked with a stroboscope. Timing that has been set by ear will usually not pass such a precise inspection.

    And the US model Geo Metros do not have an idle speed screw on the top of the engine.

    I appreciate your effort to be helpful, but US cars are very different from the ones you mention.
  • 91m4l91m4l Member Posts: 3
    Not sure if i spelled protege right. Anyhoo, I have this bad Knock from start up(cold and hot) and not quite sure what to make of it. I changed the plugs, wires cap, rotor, air filter and so will be the oil, oil filter, and fuel filter. Here's lil history on the car(1991 metro 2dr w/112k)- I was told the head gasket was changed, the oil level is currently 1qt above (maybe the owner was afraid of it loosing oil on the 200mile trip to its final destination where a couple months later was bought by me), it seems like the 3spd is leaking but not enough to keep feeding in the trans fluid every month i think but i recently sprayed the engine compartment down for a better visual a few weeks into the future. I haven't checked the trans lvl yet but will post the lvl tomorrow. The spark plugs had a white electrode on them, uniformly to all of them. Compression is cherry on all 3cyl. I will check the timing this weekend possibly and tinker without the timing light to see if timing affects the Knock. The engine runs Smooth without load at 35mph.
    Another hurdle to ovecome is keeping the car till my dying day. Converting the car to Function as the Superbly Economical XFI model will be done in the future.
    Lastly, I plan on accumulating all tools required to be fully independant of the autmotive buisneses that charge you an arm and a leg to fix such a cheap car(cheap as in very affordable to someone who makes $6.75 an hour). So i ask of you to lend your hand out to me and take me along for the ride of a lifetime. I'd be very thankful and indebted to your kindness which eill pass on to others in need.

    1991M4L!
    p.s: unfortunately i installed NGK's a couple days before i read the post about spark plugs.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    In order to sort out the knock, I'd need to know the load and speed conditions under which it can be heard. Specifically, do you hear it at idle; under light acceleration; under heavy acceleration; at steady low speed; at steady high speed; and while decelerating. Is it loudest under any of those conditions. Does it change in volume with changes in engine load or speed?

    Regarding the high oil reading, bear in mind that the Metro is more sensitive to how level the car is when checking the oil than most cars. But it is not good to run it with too much oil. Incidentally, a leaky head gasket can let coolant get into the oil, and raise the oil level.

    And just what do you mean by 'cherry compression? The stock compression pressure on that engine is 190 or 195 psi. Most other engines are a lot lower. If the compression is higher than that spec, there could be a carbon buildup problem, which could create a knock.

    Anyway, welcome to the Metro owners fraternity!
  • 9thirty39thirty3 Member Posts: 8
    Greetings to you all. This is my first posting. Ive enjoyed reading this forum for the past few months.
    I have a question regarding my 1990 4dr/htchbk. and was wondering if anyone else has encountered this problem. While getting off the freeway my 3cyl. stopped running. I had someone spin the motor and gas was just dumping like crazy into the carb. A few days previous I had noticed a strong gas odor. Could the fuel injector or fuel pump relay be bad? The timing belt is not broken and there is spark at the plugs. Any help would be welcomed.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    That's an unusual problem! Your thoughts that it could be a fuel pump relay which doesn't shut off are possible, but I think a stuck injector is more likely. Another possibility is that the fuel pressure regulator (located on top of the throttle body, next to the air intake) is either stuck, or the fuel return line is blocked. Rock Auto.com is a great source for remanufactured injectors and fuel pressure regulator parts for that motor.

    You can check to see if the fuel pump relay is working properly, by turning the ignition switch to the position where the dashboard warning lights come on, but not turning it any further, so as not to crank the starter. You should hear the fuel pump hum for one or two seconds after the dash lights come on, but it should then stop. If it doesn't stop, then there's a problem with either the relay, or the electronics that drive the relay.

    And if there's a problem with either the fuel injector or the fuel pressure regulator, be sure to replace the fuel filter (located underneath the car, next to the fuel tank) at the time you change those parts.

    Joel
  • lobertgalobertga Member Posts: 3
    Hello all,

    I have a 92 Metro 2 dr that has developed a problem with the lights. I have no light execpt hazards. Any ideas?
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    Of course, the first thing to check would be the fuses. The next likely culprit would be the headlight switch. The battery ground cable that goes to the engine originally came with a second, smaller wire that went to a bolt on the inner side of the fender. If this wire is now missing, it must be replaced in order to provide a solid ground path for the lights. Similarly, the headlight assemblies both have ground wires that go to the fender. If those wires are broken or missing, then the lights will not work.

    If you check and repair all these items, and still have not fixed the problem, try unplugging and securely reconnecting all the plugs you can find in the wiring under the dash. If the lights still don't work; please post again and indicate whether the lights all stopped working at the same time, and whether any rear lights, brake lights, or side marker lights still work.

    Joel
  • vanillalattevanillalatte Member Posts: 70
    This happened to me at night on the highway......the left headlight bulb exploded inside the casing. As I had installed the aerodynamic headlights found on the convertibles, the small glowing quartz particles did a mess on the inside of the casing.
    The bulbs were bad. I installed new ones, solved the problem.
    Hope this helps.
  • 91m4l91m4l Member Posts: 3
    The knock happens while in park under the engines load itself which i think its due to the 20*BTDC. The smog tester told me today after the failed smog test. Also he said the vacum advance lines were bypassed, and it was a ink pen tube that blocked both lines. So this weekend i will reset the timing. As for the timing advance, i'm not sure what to do yet but will do a lil research in the repair manual i picked up a couple days ago. I'm sure most of the prblem will be fixed once those issues are taken care of. 20*BTDC sure does seem like some destruction is in the process...a lil premature wear on the motor is what im expecting now. The engines compression floats between 150psi ( the sound of 3 revolutions of the motor ) to 185psi ( at the sound of 8 revolutions of the motor ), all three cylinders are equal in psi in relation to the revolutions.

    Respectfully,
    91M4L
  • 91m4l91m4l Member Posts: 3
    I didn't set the timing cause of the lack of tools but i did moved the distributor around advancing and retarding but the knock keeps on trukin and moves me into motioning for a rebuild. Today i went to a junkyard in search of the vacum advancer since its needed anyways and saw this manual 1991 metro vertible with the entire fornt end still intact minus a few relays, t-stat housing, damage from a frontside collision; everything in the bay looks good in condition. The junkyard will be holdin a 50%off day the week of Thanksgiving. Pray with me that the 1991 vertible is still there. The odometer reads 134k. If its still there i will be taking the instrument cluster(maybe), the wiring harness from the front half f the car( not sure if it matters when converting auto to manual) and other items that might be necessary. When and if the cnversion goes through ill be up the the MPG Crew and will also have a fancy Shift Light flashing at me which means my baby tells me its time to move it on up!

    91M4L
  • 9thirty39thirty3 Member Posts: 8
    I want to thank zaken1 for the very timely and informotive tips.I really enjoy this forum due to the fact I have two metros. A 1990 automatic 4dr/hchbk and a1993 2dr/hchbk. I drive 110 miles to and from work so these little jewels are worth their weight in gold to me. Unfortunately my 1990 broke down right across the freeway where 3 days earlier I was rearended by an s10 pickup.Fortunately no one was hurt, but I got to feel the sensation a jet pilot goes through when engangeing his aft
    erburners,,,that s10 gave me a shove.
    The 93 5-speed has a rebuilt title and is considered total loss by the insurance co. It gets consistantly 48mpg.Three years ago I put in a japenese crate moter for which I paid 300 dollars.The motor had sat quit a while in a wherehouse because the lifters clacked away for a long time,,but eventually got quite and smoothed out,, que bella.
    In regard to the 90 4dr auto not starting,,the car is in the parking lot where Im employed.I work a nightshift so I can work on it a little before work begins.Because of the lighting or old age I didnt notice the timing belt wearing through the plastic cover,,,in essence the crankshaft pulleybolt was working its way out! Hopefully this week I can put it back together and get it running.I will let you all know.
    This 90 was my pet project,,I liked this car,, it is roomy and has a/c. It is a 3 cyl. and because its an automatic gets approx. 10 mpg.less than a 5 speed.One month earlier I replaced the piston rings,the rebuilt head I purchased from e-bay, I did lap and put in brand new valves for less than $50,New oil pump,water pump. All items purchased from Bruce Roller with Partsdinosaur from Arizona,,good people.
    Three weeks ago I took the 90 automatic metro to break in the rings and bearings on a worthwhile trip consisting of around 800 miles. I took my "GO BAG" for overnight accommidations.It was a great trip,,but the seats need some work. My back was sore the next day.It was a momentous trip which I will always remember.
    The American countryside is beautifull and I drove it in my Geo,,,Life is good!!!
    Luke
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    It is fulfilling to me when someone becomes empowered by what I write!! Thanks for the kind words.

    I have a 1990 2 door hatchback, with a 5 speed. I bought it in 1992, with 58,000 one owner miles on it. The previous owner never put anything but Castrol in it. He broke it in on GTX, and then began using their 5W-50 Syntec at about 10,000 miles. He also installed a huge Amsoil bypass oil filter. Since I'm a fanatic about using only one brand of oil, I've stayed with the Syntec, and have kept on using the super fine Amsoil filter. I also add 3 ounces of Tufoil when I change oil (every 7,500 miles, due to the type of oil and the superior filtration). My Metro now has 270,000 miles on it, and never has even had the head off. It now runs better than it did when I bought it, still uses almost no oil, and recently broke it's own gas mileage record (by getting over 57mpg on a 300 mile freeway run). The only work it has ever needed was a timing cover oil seal, a wheel bearing, an alternator, and a water pump. The water pump ran almost 270,000 miles, before the seal finally started leaking about 2 months ago. The car still has the original clutch, original CV joints, and the original struts, But the CV joints will have to be changed soon.

    I think the Metro is an absolutely fantastic car. People who've driven it are amazed at how much power it has (yes, I've done some fiddling with the tuning). So I intend to keep this car for the rest of my driving life. And I've learned to live with the tire howl, which always seems to reappear after a set of tires gets a few miles on them. But since It gets better mileage than my friend's brand new Prius, I really can't complain.

    Suzuki outdid themselves when they built this car. Maybe that's why they decided to stop making them. But I did modify their design in one important way: I replaced the driver's seat with one from a Camry.

    I hope you keep yours going forever!

    Joel
  • vanillalattevanillalatte Member Posts: 70
    Hi there all....

    If you can get your hands on seats from a GT or GTi, you will be amazed by the difference!
    I just sold my 91 GT seats to a chap with a 98, bolted right in!

    They will also fit in the convertible, but you must retain your runners. I think that the vert has the worst seats of all. I also have GT seats in the vert, the grayish-silver ones, they are more of a match to the door panels.
    The Mark 3 and 4 seats have springs running lengthwise under the seats, whereas the GT seats have a full metal shell. A world of difference.
  • mobseenermobseener Member Posts: 1
    hey i have a metro and i love the gas milage but when i press the gas and it has some hesitation.
    it jumps when shifting in the lower gears
    and it can hardly get up to 50
    what the heck is goin on?
    something i can do?
    i want the push that a geo should have
    i think its a 91' metro
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    It is difficult to sort out this kind of situation without actually being able to test and drive it. I'm not clear about what you mean by "it jumps when shifting in the lower gears and it can hardly get up to 50." That sounds like the clutch might be slipping. If the engine sometimes speeds up while the car doesn't go any faster, that would be caused by a slipping clutch. The clutch pedal free play on those cars is adjustable. If you start to press on the clutch pedal; it should move freely, with little or no resistance over the first 1" or 1 1/2" of pedal travel, but when you press it further, it should then feel like you're compressing a spring. If the pedal feels tight from the beginning, with no free play, then it desperately needs to be adjusted. The adjustment is done by loosening the large nut that is located at the end of the clutch cable, where the cable connects to the arm coming from the transmission housing. Keep turning the nut until you get 1" to 1 1/2" of free play at the top of the pedal stroke. After you make this adjustment, if the clutch still slips, then it is too late: The clutch has worn out, and will have to be replaced.

    All clutches used to be adjustable, but many drivers didn't watch the free play. The free play distance becomes smaller as the clutch wears. If the free play is allowed to go away entirely, then the clutch will burn out. In recent years, manufacturers have begun making self adjusting clutches, so that owners wouldn't have to check the free play. But the downside is that people have become used to cars having self adjusting clutches; if they then buy a car with a clutch that's not self adjusting, and the free play goes away, it destroys the clutch. Knowing whether the car you drive needs to have the free play checked, and always watching the clutch free play are just a few of the many responsibilities we have to take on, in order to survive in today's complex and wonderful world.
  • 1966sprint61966sprint6 Member Posts: 2
    Can a 3 speed automatic be removed without removing the 1.3L engine?
    Thanks,
    Al
  • versia23versia23 Member Posts: 1
    I think that I may be able to help a little with your problem. My 91 geo metro convertible just had a similar problem, but what it did was that it wouldn't rev up higher than 4000-4500 RPM and it didn't go much faster than 50-55 mph, and that was with me stomping on the gas pedal. My problem was the Catalytic Converter insides worked themselves loose and all that crap was pushed down to my muffler and clogged up my whole exhaust system, thus making my engine lose it's performance and it was extremely sluggish. I couldn't get my RPM's over the previously stated RPM range. If you can't rev over that limit, then there's a good chance that you're Catalytic converter crapped the bed and took your muffler with it clogging your exhaust exit.
    If you do see the RPM problem with your car, a good way to double check that is by taking out your O2 sensor, or just taking off your exhaust manifold or pipe that connects to your Manifold (it's easier to take off the manifold because the 2 bolts that hold the pipe onto the manifold rust and break easily when removing. Sounds stupid because you'll be taking about 6 or 7 fasteners out to drop the exhaust manifold). After you've done that you've officially bypassed the plugged up exhaust; Start up your car and rev it up. It'll be loud like a family of chipmunks screaming, but you should see that you'll be able to hit 6500 RPM without any problems. Let me know if this helps. If you don't have the RPM problem, there's a chance that it's something else, but after what I've seen with these cheap catalytic converters, it wouldn't surprise me to see someone else with the same problem.
    You might also consider checking your sparkplugs to see if they're fouled out due to the exhaust obstruction. Also, check your Air filter and the assembly that provides the air to the intake. There may be an obstruction there keeping your little car from performing like the go cart it should be. Check your timing, and all of your distributor parts for corrosion and poor electrical connections there. Could be a loose wire somewhere. Also, if you haven't changed your fuel filter for some time, it wouldn't hurt. That may be clogged or dirty if you haven't changed it in the last year causing fuel restrictions to your injector. Bad gas will really make your chipmunk in the wheel engine constipated and irritable. A dirty injector will give you a little grief too. Wouldn't hurt to have your injector cleaned/ serviced. Check your fuel pressure, maybe a bad fuel pump is not giving your engine the much needed sipping sustainance. All of these things could be cheap fixes to your problem. If none of these fixes work, then you may have internal problems in your engine, maybe worn lobes on your camshaft, bad valves, or a dead cylinder. Do a compression check just to be sure before you fix things that aren't broken.
    Best of luck to you from a fellow geo metro owner. Let me know how you do.
  • stepzstepz Member Posts: 2
    My Metro will shut off when I let off the gas after cresting a hill. If I let it coast for a few seconds then push the gas it will take off again most times. The mechanic said I had good spark and fuel pressure. and was getting a pulse to the injector but no fuel into the throttle body. What could it be?
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    That sounds like you have a problem with the throttle position sensor. This sensor is mounted at the end of the throttle shaft, on the passenger side of the throttle body. It is held in place by 2 mounting screws, and has an electrical plug attached to it. The sensor is designed to shut the fuel off when the throttle is closed during deceleration, and then turn the fuel flow back on when you step on the gas. In earlier models, it is mounted on adjustment slots. That adjustment is extremely critical. If the sensor has been moved to the wrong position (too far counterclockwise), it will not turn the fuel back on soon enough when you step on the gas. If you have a later model sensor that does not have an adjustable mounting position, then it may have developed an internal electrical problem. Bad connections at the plug, or damage to the wiring harness could also cause the same symptoms.

    This problem could also be caused if an ignorant person had tried to reduce the idle speed by loosening the throttle stop screw. The throttle stop screw is factory set. That's why they put a lock nut on it. It should not be used as an idle speed adjustment. The engine computer automatically adjusts the idle speed. Yes, I know that the engine sometimes takes a while to slow back down to an idle; but that is deliberately done to keep the emission levels down. If a knowledgeable person reduces the throttle stop screw position, they also reset the throttle position sensor to a more clockwise position, to match the new stop screw setting.
  • vanillalattevanillalatte Member Posts: 70
    WOW, that's all I can say!
    Versia23 and Zaken 1... wow and double wow.
    You two guys will make me believe that the world is a good place.
    I thank you for these informations.
    I replaced my automatic tranny in Vanilla Latte with a manual and, yes, I admit the idle was very high, I...I...I did set it lower by manipulating the forbidden zone....
    BUT I never did go over 4000 rpm, I installed a tacho from the company and I doubt if I can go over that. A few times it did feel sluggish and with pedal to the floor was going 40 miles an hour tops. Then I started unscrewing the gas cap and...presto, power! This happens when the tank is quite full.
    But you say 6000 to 6500 RPM? Really?
    Come this spring I shall go over all that has been said by you two fellows you can be sure of that.
    I thank you very much for your time.
    Frederick.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    I NOW KNOW THE ANSWER TO YOUR PROBLEM!!! The Metros with automatic transmissions have a totally different type of throttle position switch than the Metros with manual transmissions. In order to get stick shift class fuel economy, you now need to change over to a throttle position switch from a stick shift car. If you're lucky, it will have the same harness plug. Otherwise, you'll have to change the harness, and possibly the computer. It was the automatic transmission throttle position switch which was messing up the idle speed and the fuel cut operation. You just might be able to get by if you readjust the AT type switch, but I expect it will never work right.

    But the problem with unrelieved vacuum in the fuel tank is a whole different issue. That one comes from your charcoal cannister, which is on the firewall near where the speedometer cable comes out. There is a large diameter hose from the fuel tank vent, which is supposed to connect to that cannister. It sounds to me like that hose has been plugged. If that happened, there would be no path for air to get into the tank as you draw fuel out of it. And this would be most severe when the tank was full.

    Joel
  • mailcarriermailcarrier Member Posts: 2
    finally got it running. The module in the distributor was defective. after changing distributor car runs like new. Thanks for all the help.
  • hendonhendon Member Posts: 3
    Would like to buy a Chevy Geo Metro with automatic transmission. Have a 99 Metro stick shift. Wife can't learn to drive on stick shift. Want to buy her a Metro with automatic transmission. Only 6 for sale within 500 miles of Mesquite, Nevada (80 miles from Vegas). This is my first time in this forum. What now? -- Donald Hendon
  • hendonhendon Member Posts: 3
    Would like to buy a Chevy Geo Metro with automatic transmission. Have a 99 Metro stick shift. Wife can't learn to drive on stick shift. Want to buy her a Metro with automatic transmission. Only 6 for sale within 500 miles of Mesquite, Nevada (80 miles from Vegas). This is my first time in this forum. What now? -- Donald Hendon. Reply to donny88a@yahoo.com
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    A reminder... the buying and selling of items is not permitted on the forums. So unfortunately there really isn't a "what now?" yet to come.

    If you click on a member's username and want to contact them off the forum via email, that's up to you, but no transactions or requests for transactions can happen here at this point.
  • hendonhendon Member Posts: 3
    My apologies. I joined only yesterday. Didn't know buying and selling wasn't permitted. BTW, I went online, typed in my zip code (Mesquite, Nevada, 80 miles from Vegas), said I was looking for Metro hatchback within 500 mile radius. Only 6 for sale (3 in southern Calif, 2 in Phoenix, in in Vegas). I guess we Metro owners are too smart to part with 'em, huh? -- Don Hendon
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    No problem Don. Live and learn :P

    Since you're new, if you have any questions about the forums, chats, or your CarSpace page, just pop me an email (click on my username) and I'll get you pointed in the right direction!
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    I hope you realize that a Metro with an automatic transmission will get about ten miles per gallon less than a stick shift Metro. It will also have less power. The 3 cylinder engine just can't handle the added load created by the torque converter and the automatic four speed gearbox. The engine's life expectancy will also be less, especially in the hot Nevada climate. For those reasons, I think you'd be better off buying a Toyota Corolla or Tercel, a Geo Prizm, or a 4 cylinder Metro or Suzuki Swift with an automatic. Those cars are designed to work with an automatic. In my opinion, the automatic in the 3 cylinder Metro was just offered to increase the car's marketing appeal.

    I can give you tips on picking out a good used car, but I'd consider it a waste of my time, and an ultimate disservice to you, to do so with a 3 cylinder automatic Metro.

    Just for your information, I've owned a stick shift 3 cylinder Metro for the last 15 years.
  • vanillalattevanillalatte Member Posts: 70
    Gee...thanks a million.
    I'll definitely look at that canister in the spring. Right now Vanilla Latte is snoozing in a quiet antique barn, her innards with a Stabil cocktail and her battery in my dry warm basement.
    As for economy.....I just don't know....it gets aprox. 58 miles to the gallon and I did a run of 62 once.
    My motorcycle buddy is the "culprit" who lowered the idle speed and that did bring down the revs to a steady 850 RPM from 1250. When the automatic was in the revs were at around 850 also.
    I switched the tranny and I did get some help here, but I really don't know whre it comes from, except that the garage told me it was in excellent shape and that it came from a three humper. BUT, at 65 miles an hour, my motor is turning at 2600 RPM. Albeit I do have 15 inch wheels on Vanilla.
    Besides sometimes lacking some stamina (gas cap thing), the engine runs fine. Although in one post I did see a mention of shaky idling when it has been lowered without the proper knowledge. I swear it isn't shaky , by that I mean it doesn't swing semi violently from left to right. Not to my eyes anyway.
    I thank you agoin for your time. Frederick.
  • corvairbobcorvairbob Member Posts: 27
    soften the tires they Will grip the road better. i run my tires in the snow at 20# and in the summer i have them up to 30. the factory has them at a bit higher pressure
  • corvairbobcorvairbob Member Posts: 27
    on the geo/metro the wheels will not lock up. i can't get mine to lock on sand gravel or most snow conditions, ice will allow the tires to lock. the metro has a coaster brake for a braking system. i have been on yahoo's geo groups for some time and they all say the same thing. i complained about my brakes on that site one time and i got tons of replies about the breaking system and how it is supposed to work.
  • vanillalattevanillalatte Member Posts: 70
    Yes, 15 inch wheels NO problems. I have them on Vanilla Latte, my small white convertible. I acheive 58 miles to the gallon with them. In summer.
  • corvairbobcorvairbob Member Posts: 27
    i got hit last fall early winter no snow but cold and thee was ice on the bridges but where i was setting still on the road due to cars sliding off the road, a big pickup truck came along and hit me in the front side of the headlight on my 90 metro hatchback. the truck lost the bumper and i got a few scratches on the front fender. the car is so lite it was pushed of to the side and i was spared the trouble of a smashed up car the hospital and maybe a long walk. the truck slid the whole way along my car but the front had the only scratches on it.
  • sunoco76sunoco76 Member Posts: 2
    I have a 1996 Metro, 1.0 liter, manual trans. It was running great until Sat night. Shut it off, when I went to start it a few hours later nothing. Dash lights would come on and go dim when I turned the key to the start position. The starter would not engage. No whining or any other sound. I checked the battery, it was dead as a door nail and frozen solid. For kicks I pulled the starter and had it tested. It failed. Replaced the batt and starter, still the same problem.
    I then checked the clutch position switch. I got continuity when I disconnected it and depressed the button by hand and the opposite when I released it. I then checked for voltage at the fuse box under the hood at the 70 amp fuse for the batt, good.
    I also checked the 60amp ign fuse, good. I then checked the ign switch in all positions seperatly, all read good. I re checked the cps for current, when depressed it had voltage on both sides, when released, the opposite.
    I have power at the starter from the batt cable, but am not getting any power the starter when ign switch is in start position.

    The answer is probably starring me right in the face and I just can't seem to see it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
  • ggeeooggeeoo Member Posts: 94
    Other GM Starters sometimes the solenoid that allows the starter to work is in
    the starter. Thus you may have power at the starter but no solenoid no spin.
    I recently had battery short out inside the battery. When I replaced battery
    with a new one everything worked great.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    Before you assume a problem exists in the starting circuit, make sure the engine is not locked up, by either turning the crankshaft pulley clockwise, or by putting the transmission in 5th gear, releasing the brake, and pushing the car.

    Electrical problems with the symptoms you describe are typically caused by corroded connections in the battery cables, resistive switch or fuse block contacts, a corroded, broken or missing auxiliary ground wire from the negative battery terminal to the sheet metal of the body, or a defective or improperly charged new battery.

    The fact that the dash lights dim when you turn the key to the 'start' position, but the starter doesn't receive battery power, indicates that the battery either doesn't have enough energy to drive the starter, or that there is a substantial resistance on either the hot or the ground path between the battery and the starter, or that the starter solenoid is not being activated by the ignition switch.

    The way to sort out these possibilities is to test them one by one, and eliminate the possibilities that test good. These tests are designed to depend on each other, so do not skip any steps or change the sequence. The first thing to do is to test the battery, while leaving it connected as usual. Attach the voltmeter leads to both battery cables, and confirm that the meter reads 12 or more volts when the key is off. If the meter reads less than 12 volts, take the meter leads and hold them directly on top of the battery posts. If that brings the voltage up above 12 volts, the battery cable clamps are either corroded or loose. If the voltage does not come up, then the battery is either defective or improperly charged.

    Once you get 12 or more volts at the battery cables, have someone turn the key to the 'start' position while you watch the meter. This is a tougher test, which may produce different results that the one in the previous paragraph. If the voltage drops below 11 volts, while the starter does not turn; try the test again while the meter probes are held directly on top of the battery posts. If that brings the voltage up, then there are bad connections at the cable clamps. If the voltage does not come up, the battery is either defective or improperly charged.

    If the battery voltage stays up during all the above tests, then the battery and its cable connections can be ruled out as a problem. The next step is to check the ground path. First, confirm there is a ground wire running from a fender bolt to either the engine or the negative battery terminal; and that the battery ground cable is attached to an engine bolt. Leaving the positive meter lead connected to the battery, move the negative lead to a clean engine bolt. You should see 12 or more volts when the key is off. Turn the key to the 'start' position, if the starter does not run, the meter should not drop below 11 volts. If the meter drops below 11 volts, there is a problem in the ground cable or its connection.

    If the voltage stayed above 11 in the preceding test, the ground leg can be ruled out as a problem. The next thing to check is the positive battery cable. Take the positive meter lead off the battery, and move it to the battery cable at the starter. Turn the key to the 'start' position and watch the meter. If it drops below 11 volts, while the starter does not run, there is a problem in the positive battery cable or its connection to the starter.

    If all the above tests were good, then connect a jumper lead to the battery positive cable (be careful to not let the free end touch any metal parts), and briefly touch it to the solenoid terminal on the starter (where the wire from the ignition switch normally connects). The starter should now run. If it runs, then you have a resistive connection in the ignition switch or the fuse block.
  • ggeeooggeeoo Member Posts: 94
    You can buy at a Ace Hardware store in the fastener area If you do not have
    those in your area let me know I will get the store to mail you some.
  • stepzstepz Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the info. Someone told me to put some fuel system cleaner in it. I tried it and it ran fine till I put gas in it again. It started to shut off again. I put some more cleaner in it and it was fine. I think I have dirt in the injector or some where. Will it hurt to put cleaner it to much? Also I'm told there is no filter on it just a sock in the tank.
  • zaken1zaken1 Member Posts: 556
    From what I understand, you can put cleaner in it as often as you want; providing you do not use more then the recommended amount, and don't add it more than once per tank of fuel. But it should not be necessary to use cleaner to keep the engine running. Try replacing the fuel filter. Also, some gas stations have sediment in their underground storage tanks. If you are unlucky enough to be buying your gas while a tanker is refilling the station's storage tank, and the sediment gets stirred up in that process, it can end up in your car's fuel system. Other stations buy what is called 'bottom tank fuel' from refineries; which is the oldest and most deteriorated type of fuel. If you commonly buy fuel from the same place, and keep getting dirt in your gas tank, try switching to another source. Even if you have to pay more, it will probably save you money over the long run.

    You were given bad information by the person who told you there is no fuel filter on the Metro. That car has a very fine filter, which is located underneath the car, on the driver's side, just in front of the fuel tank.
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