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What about VW TDI engine?

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Comments

  • turkeybirdturkeybird Member Posts: 3
    My apologies for cluttering up this group... I just found out that VW is not yet producing the TDI/Auto. trans. combination for the NB. Has anyone heard what their intention is regarding this combination?

    Best wishes.
  • mghurlemghurle Member Posts: 9
    The difference on diesel 1 and 2 is in the additives the refineries put into the fuel for the winter months. Unfortunately, I can't remember which is sold in winter, and which one is available year-round. Here in St. Louis, unleaded is 89 cents per gallon, and diesel is selling for 92 cents. Not too much of a cost concern here.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 10,265
    Check out www.vwvortexforums.com for comments on the TDI/automatic. The people there seem to like it.
  • alextalext Member Posts: 63
    The difference between comparablt equipped gas models and diesel is about $1000. But you more than make up for it in feul economy.
  • hjwiihjwii Member Posts: 1
    How about the noise factor? Diesels of the past always seemed loud and obnoxious....
  • BwummerBwummer Member Posts: 46
    Here goes:
    1) Passing power: see my earlier posts. If you get the RPMs right (1700 or so), it's got plenty of oomph for passing.

    2) Gas prices: here in CT, diesel runs anywhere from a nickle more OR less than a gallon of unleaded regular, depending on where you fill up. But I think I'm moving to St. Louis. Gas prices up here are about $1.25 a gallon, $0.54 of which is CT State Tax. (I don't know what they do with that money -- it sure isn't road repairs!)

    3) Fuel economy: we got about 42-43 MPG in the winter. Now that warm weather's here, we're seeing high forties/low fifties. At this rate, it will take us less than a year to pay for the price difference on the TDI.

    4) Noise: this is a sweet engine! It sounds like a diesel, but it's only a little louder than the gas engine -- however, it's a LOWER note than you're probably used to, so you'll notice it more at first. It's also a little smellier (but NE emissions legal). BUT it's neither intrusive nor obnoxious. In fact, it sounds A LOT like an OLD Beetle engine! To me, that's a selling point.

    Keep the questions coming, folks! I got all the answers (I wish!!!).
  • mjb56mjb56 Member Posts: 170
    I agree with "bwummer", a lot of the charm of this car is in the sound. But the pickup is great and the mileage is superb. I've averaged around 43 in mostly city driving. The bottom line is it's just plain old fun. My wife is a little reluctant about the smell/smoke when it's cold but the rest of the advantages override these concerns. We have a lot of NB's in our city. (About 40 in a city of 50,000) They're not real special here but only 2 of them are TDI's (mine being one of them). To me, if you're going to have an NB, you've got to have a TDI.
  • rickroverrickrover Member Posts: 601
    I had my 99 GLS New Beetle (gas) in for it's 5k service the other day and my dealer had a TDI automatic Golf in stock, it was a two door GL. They had a couple of manual TDI 99 Jettas too. A sales person said the auto is not available in the TDI New Beetle yet. I'm going back to test drive that Golf, I would think an automatic TDI would be a good combo since the engine has such great low end torque. The sales guy said it was a sweet car to drive. I'm not interested in buying the Golf, just curious how it drives. I wanted a TDI Beetle but didn't want to wait for one so ended up with a gas NB -- at least I can sell my 99 NB and not get pounded on depreciation if I decide to get a TDI.
  • DovDov Member Posts: 24
    mjb56 wrote:

    "My wife is a little reluctant about
    the smell/smoke when it's cold but the rest of the
    advantages override these concerns."

    I thought that the new TDI's have virtually no smell or black smoke? I would be interested in hearing from TDI owners on this point.
  • BwummerBwummer Member Posts: 46
    I can't speak for mjb56, but my "Lady Bug" doesn't smoke (visibly, at least). It does, however, accumulate a gray "film" on the underside of the plastic cover on the rear bumper.

    As for smell, well, ALL cars smell. The diesel is just a little more noticable. It seems to linger in the air when its cold for some reason. For the record, my '98 Explorer (gas) is stinkier, but the smell goes away more quickly.

    It's certainly not a real problem, unless you're extremely sensitive to diesel exhaust. But banish the thought of your beetle belching stinky black smoke like the 18 wheeler next to you. It never has and never will.

    Consumer Reports and Motor Trend both claim that the TDI is cleaner than a gas engine with the same emissions controls, and I believe it.
  • mjb56mjb56 Member Posts: 170
    I do get a little puff on a cold start in colder weather but it goes away quickly. This probably has more to do with the brand of fuel than anything. I'll second that opinion about the lingering smell but it is far less smellier than our Pontiac TransSport which also emits a puff of smoke on a cold start. I probably overstated the case here. It's really not a concern.
  • dae3dae3 Member Posts: 55
    I just saw a golf gls auto transmission with the luxury package on the local VW lot today. I think I managed to keep myself from drooling on it. I really wish that I had the money right now and didn't have to wait till later this year to buy. The auto has awesome pickup with the TDI because of the low end torque. I hope that I can find one again when I finally get my money.
  • alextalext Member Posts: 63
    I saw a nice super black GL TDI driving through Northridge, CA. I can't wait to get mine!!! It was from Woodland Hills VW, so I'm going to check them out and see if they have any in stock.

    Also, just to throw out a bone here, I know the "futura yellow" paint, which many people think is quite ugly but only someone as twisted as myself could appreciate, is only available on the GTI, not the GL or GLS. However, I'm willing to pay extra and wait (till september anyway) to get it on a GL TDI. Does anybody have an idea of how much a dealer might charge for this? If it's over $300 I might as well just get it repainted after I buy it.

    Also, in regards to the Neuspeed p-chips, does anyone know about how much they cost for a TDI engine as well as the cost of installation? As yopu may know, the Neuspeed catalog costs $6 and I'm saving all my money to buy my TDI! Also, anybody know how much HP they add and how much mileage they take off?
  • odysseusodysseus Member Posts: 10
    Guys, don't get an automatic vw, these cars are drivers cars. THe auto is just no fun at all, it costs more, it's slower, and you get less range than a manual. Isin't the whole point in getting a TDI engine the amazing range? Instead of getting 40-45mpg in the city you will get like 35mpg, a noticable difference. Plus with 90 HP on tap, highway passing will be excruciatingly slow with a 4 speed.
  • dae3dae3 Member Posts: 55
    Except for the fact that with a TDI you don't downshift to pass on the highway. You stay in top gear to keep rpm's low in order to take advantage of the low end torque. So, a five speed would not be an advantage over the auto in highway passing.
  • ndkimndkim Member Posts: 5
    >So, a five speed would not be an advantage
    >over the auto in highway passing.

    You mean, a five speed WOULD be an advantage over the four speed auto, right?
  • dae3dae3 Member Posts: 55
    No, actually I meant it the way I said it. In a five speed gas engine you would downshift to fourth to raise the RPM's for more power to pass.

    In a TDI you want to keep the RPM's low in order to take advantage of the low end torque. So, since you wouldn't downshift to pass anyway there would be no advantage to the five speed in highway passing.

    Of course this is on the assumption that the gear ratio for 4th gear in the auto is the same as 5th gear for the stick. If the ratio is significantly different then it blows my argument out of the water but I don't really feel like looking it up. I am basically taking my view from someone who has a TDI auto and has said that the auto trans works very well on this car because of the low end torque.
  • cwo4cwo4 Member Posts: 90
    Does anyone know of a statistical comparison report on VW TDI engines, that emphatically states they will last longer than a gasoline engine?
  • rdeschenerdeschene Member Posts: 331
    cwo4. Hah! Good luck on finding any such things actually, objectively quantified. Let us know if you do find such a medium to large-scale summary and comparison though. I am genuinely quite interested.
  • jagat1jagat1 Member Posts: 31
    Not just VW TDI's per se but diesel engines in general.Just an example,of the old Mercedes W123 series(mid 70-early 80's+)still on the road in LA today,all are diesels(300TD,240D emblems and smoke..).

    But those are archaic versions,the TDI is a whole new breed...

    P.S. I grew up with diesels(3 MBZ,2 Isuzus',1 BMW td)!..8-)
  • BwummerBwummer Member Posts: 46
    I don't think you'll find any durability studies on the TDI engine. It hasn't been around long enough to develop any meaninful statistics. The durability comparison between diesel and gas would need about 10+ years before any noticable differences develop (IMHO).

    However, jagat1 is correct when he says that diesels are more durable. In fact, my autoshop textbook (VERY old, but not out of date in any important respect) lists durability as one of the advantages of diesels, and estimates that a diesel will have an average service life of 2-2.5 times that of a gas engine of comparable horsepower and application.
  • karynsellskarynsells Member Posts: 3
    I am still running into a total deadend in Seattle trying to locate a TDI Beetle, they quote
    a 9 months wait, a car broker came up with zero.
    Does anyone out there see any available, if so
    where? Thanks.
  • mghurlemghurle Member Posts: 9
    I got my Jetta TDI last week, and already have 1500 miles on it (I work for a courier service part-time). The mileage figures are awesome, I'm actually getting OVER the 49 EPA highway average- the first tank was 52.4 mpg, and the second tank was 51.9 mpg. This is mainly all highway- 75-80 mph, a/c on. The car loves to scoot, and it is very quiet on the highway. At 80 mph, you're only turning 2800 rpm. Try that in any other 4 cylinder with that small of displacement. You WILL hear the John Deere clatter at idle, but you do want people to know it's a diesel, right? Anyway, the turbo kicking in when you're accelerating has a sweet sound, like an L1011 aircraft on takeoff. I did the research, read these articles for months, and finally bought one. I'm glad I did. You have this feeling that you've got something special, and it's you're own little secret. Personally, I hope VW doesn't let the secret out, it would spoil the fun!
  • darenjpdxdarenjpdx Member Posts: 14
    I looked for a few months in all of the Pacific NW (WA, OR, ID--I live in Portland) for a TDI Beetle. Refused to pay over MSRP, but could have to get a tdi sooner. Came across Ron Price Motors in San Francisco on the internet (i think www.ronpricemotors.com) He (Mike Smith) had 2-3 TDI's and sold me one for a few hundred under MSRP. Did the whole deal by e-mail/phone/fax and he shipped it directly my work for $400. And don't worry about California emissions--the TDI is 50 state compliant. Of course this was back in December, so things may have changed, but I still haven't taken my name off a few TDI wait lists in OR, and they still haven't called. Good luck.
  • rollerfunkrollerfunk Member Posts: 15
    I'm glad you're happy with your JETTA TDI. What I don't understand is why Volkswagen don't decide to bring to the States the 115 hp TDI's European version with the "variable turbo geometry" technology. This super-fast version has in reality more than 130 hp and can put the Jetta TDI from 0 to 60 in less than 9! seconds. The most amazing thing is this version runs even with less amount of diesel, so if you got 52mpg, you'll be able to do 55-56mpg. This version has almost 205 lbs. of torque at only 1.900 RPM.(30-35% more than your version). Now you wonder why the cars with this engine (Audi A3-A4, VW Passat-Golf-Jetta, Seat Ibiza-Cordoba-Toledo) are HOT CAKES in Europe, the difference in price with the normal 90HP version is only $1000-1200.
  • dae3dae3 Member Posts: 55
    The reason VW can't bring that engine to the states is because our diesel fuel is of too poor quality for the engine to run properly. European diesel has a lot less carbon in it. Only when our diesel is refined better with less contaminants will we be able to get these new engines.
  • jagat1jagat1 Member Posts: 31
    Hey rollerfunk.Tell them about the "REAL HP" thing...heheheh 8-)
  • alextalext Member Posts: 63
    Another bad boy is the TDI Golf with the 170 hp power-plant that turns only 4 hp less than the gasoline VR6 GTI but gets a ton more torque (more than 200 lb./ft., but I can't remember exactly) and twice the gas mileage. Wouldn't that be a dream car here in the states? Oh well, I guess I just have to move to the UK.
  • rollerfunkrollerfunk Member Posts: 15
    Hey, my friend, I knew that I'll find you here at this topic! I'll talk to you in the other topic about "REAL HP"...(How come you still don't understand what this means?,...!)
    alext,...a Golf TDI with 170 HP?! Never heard about it. What is true is that Volkswagen is starting to use some Golf TDI's in some European Gran Turismo races. VW claims for this particular competition version 200HP, but someone was talking about 240HP for this 1.9 diesel...NO COMMENTS!
  • jagat1jagat1 Member Posts: 31
    We seem to have a language barrier here of sorts.I am making my questions to you so simple enough that you give me an impression of ignorance(Sorry for being too *frank*..).You can't seem to give me a straightforward answer...

    To clarify what you think.I DO NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS UNDERSTANDING "REAL HP".JUST PROVE WHERE YOU READ THESE THINGS....DO YOU UNDERSTAND SIMPLE ENGLISH?..Senor?

    SUBSTANTIATE your claims...(Punyeta.)
  • mznmzn Member Posts: 727
    Friends, I have hidden the two posts above because they appear to continue a private discussion. May I remind all of us that the Town Hall has been created for fun and friendly conversations about cars, trucks, and all sorts of auto news? Thanks for adhering to your participant agreement.

    carlady/host
  • rollerfunkrollerfunk Member Posts: 15
    I agree,...no private discussions at Town Hall, but what I wrote in post #79 wasn't any kind of discusion, and I guess that what Mr. jagat1 wrote in post #80 wasn't very friendly. (didn't read his post cause you hide it).

    ... Peace!
  • alextalext Member Posts: 63
    Yes, it exists Rollerfunk. Check out Fred's TDI Page at

    http://tdi.abahn.bc.ca

    There's also a little info there about a 3.3L V8 TDI that makes 225 HP and 355 (!!!) lb/ft of torque. It's not even available yet in Europe, but it would be one to scare off the meanest of gas guzzling monsters.
  • rollerfunkrollerfunk Member Posts: 15
    Thanx for the information. Every week I get car-magazines from Europe and I can tell you that BMW has ready its BMW 740d. It has a "monstruous" engine, a 3.9 liter, V8 32valves Twin turbo. The facts? 240 HP with ...405 lb/ft !!
    ...And Mercedes will have soon his V8 diesel too.
    Somebody got pretty upset in this post because wants to know from where exactly I claim all this information,...so if someone wants this information, I'll give magazine name and serial number of publication.
    ...Peace!
  • alextalext Member Posts: 63
    Anybody have any experience with older VW diesels?

    I found an '86 Golf Diesel in very good condition for less than $1900, I was wondering how well the oold diesels perform.
  • rollerfunkrollerfunk Member Posts: 15
    You'll get reliability, great diesel mileage. If its prior owner did take care about the manteinance, you'll be able to hit 200k miles. The bad news about this car is the performance. I guess the version you are talking about is the 1.6 liter with 54 HP.
    I'm pretty sure you're not going to race it, but we are talking about 17-18 seconds in the 0 to 60 and 20-21 sec in the 1/4 mile,...and these numbers are for a brand new version.
    (By the way, $1900 is a bit expensive for an 86 Golf Diesel...)
  • stefokmstefokm Member Posts: 5
    I live in MN where -30 degrees (that's not including windchill) is the norm for January. I've been told (by non-diesel owners) that I'll never get the TDI started in that kind of cold... and I'm not that fond of public transportation. Does anyone have experience they can share with the severe northern cold? I test drove the Golf TDI and LOVED IT!!! but of course it's summer.
    kevin
  • alextalext Member Posts: 63
    Well, the dealer sold it anyway. I was just wondering, thanks for the info.
  • rollerfunkrollerfunk Member Posts: 15
    They told you TDIs are hard to start in cold weather? Never heard about this problem, it makes NO-SENSE! There's plenty of TDIs in northern Europe,(Sweden/Norway/Finland), and the weather over there is very, very cold too. If this kind of engine would give such a problem, everybody should know about it. So if you liked the Golf TDI...GO FOR IT! (It's a WAY better option than the gasoline Golf 2.0 and 115hp, the diesel is a bit faster and the gas mileage is in another galaxy)
  • BwummerBwummer Member Posts: 46
    We got our TDI Beetle right before Christmas. In January, we had a couple of subzero mornings (-4, -5 degrees). Beetle had been sitting out all night; no garage, no engine block heater. It took about 10 seconds for the glow plugs (which warm up the air inside the cylinders) to shut off, but as soon as they did, the engine purred to life. Without cranking, even!

    My Explorer, on the other hand (which is gas, for the totally ignorant), had to crank four or five times before it turned over.

    Now I know that -5 is a far cry from -30 (wind chill doesn't count: it's caused by evaporation of water from exposed skin and doesn't apply to inanimate objects). However, as long as they sell "winter" diesel in MN (and I'm sure they do), I wouldn't worry about starting on cold mornings.

    Happy dieseling!
  • dzuldzul Member Posts: 9
    The best TDI site on the net is:

    Fred's TDI Page at http://tdi.abahn.bc.ca

    It is extremely informative and holds discussion forums like this one. If you have a question or doubt about a diesel, you will surely find an anwer here.

    Hope this helps someone.
  • bmagersbmagers Member Posts: 1
    I was told by a dealer that due to a change in state law, VW has discontinued the TDI in California and moved current inventory to Nevada. Has anybody else heard this?
  • ogmogm Member Posts: 1
    I don't know about moving the inventory to NV, but yes, it is true that VW has withdrawn the TDI from the CA market.

    ogm
  • dixie_belldixie_bell Member Posts: 1
    I have the "official" letter sent to dealers explaining why the TDI is not being offered on the 2k models. It basically boils down to idiot bureaucrats running the CA Air Resources Board. I don't blame VW, who could be fined millions. I'm now looking for a used TDI Beetle.
  • ardanielsardaniels Member Posts: 16
    I too saw the "letter" at a local VW dealer here in San Diego. Early August date and all orders canceled and inventory slated for California redirected.

    Used TDIs are ok and I test drove a excellent sample, a 98 with 8k miles. Listed @ $19K sold for $18.5K. Would have snapped it up but wasn't certain I wanted to live with a Black bug for as long as these are certain to last.

    If you buy out of state and want to register in CA I believe you can do that as long as it has 7500 miles on it.

    Anybody else have any feedback on that?
  • steve186steve186 Member Posts: 5
    Does anybody have a TDI in New York (NYC/Long Island) that could share their experiences with me?
    I am looking for my first car and the TDI sounds great!
    Also, do VW's, in general, have room for a 6'3" driver?
  • steve186steve186 Member Posts: 5
    New York's following Ca's lead apparently... no new diesel's will be allowed in due to new emissions laws for diesels...
    Any thoughts?
  • govugovu Member Posts: 62
    I've been following this discussion on Fred's TDI page as well. The story I've heard is that neither California nor New York have banned the TDI. The claim is that VW will not sell them their so that they can keep their fleet emissions down. This is all second hand...but someone claims to have called the DMV in California, who told him that they had made no such ruling about TDI's.
  • bobduke1bobduke1 Member Posts: 2
    I am close to buying a 2000 Golf GL TDI, but if I won't be able to get parts if something goes wrong with the engine....
  • govugovu Member Posts: 62
    There are lots of TDIs out there, and the wait seems to be longer than VWs other cars (I've been waiting 1 1/2 years for a Beetle...which should be here early next week...), so I don't think parts will be a problem.

    After talking with a few more people, my understanding is that VW has pulled the TDI from CA and NY because they could get fined if they have too many diesels in those states. I'm sure the pollution problem would be much better if everyone shunned the gas miser TDI and bought an SUV instead.
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