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Ford Focus hatchback
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Comments
1. The ZX3 was a late addition to the NA Focus lineup and will be produced in Mexico. I wouldn't take this necessarily as a negative as my experience as a mfg eng. working with Mexican plants is that the workers are often more conscientuous than NA workers.
2. My first model preference would be the wagon with a 5-speed. I had the chance to drive a Euro-spec model and liked the looks and functionality of the wagon. My second choice would be the 5-door hatch.
3. I really don't care about the lack of power locks, but would like to have cruise control and a sunroof.
4. The criticisms about early production glitches are just plain stupid!! People who make such comments really have no idea what they are talking about. What is more important is that Ford stands behind the product and keeps defective vehicles from getting to customers. Remember, the Focus may have been already on the market for a year in Europe, but many of the suppliers of component for the NA Focus are different, although the designs may be the same.
5. The "wood" on the ZTS is simulated and looks pretty bad in my opinion. I'll probably skip it and look to the aftermarket for a wood dash kit.
I could see Ford softening the hatchback up far too much to meet the tastes of sporty buyers that are spending zillions of dollars on their import cars.
If you want a car which is conducive to being towed, I say go with the Ford. I guarantee the Ford won't let you down; I had a Ford and it got towed all the time, and that doesn't count being removed from illegal parking spots.
In fact, I think there may be a correlation between "cheap" cars and general neglect. I would never imagine treating an expensive car in this manner; nor would most of the car owning population. Perhaps the less you spend, the less you put into it. Assuming the car will fall apart sooner or later, why bother? ...just a thought. )
P.S. not my personal philosophy on cars, mind you!
carlady/host
Please go to those posts.
Also, do not respond to jake696 or carfreak, they were rude in the "..should Honda get nervous" post, it's now frozen.
As a longtime Honda owner ('90 CRX at present) I'm accustomed to reliability, but at this point the company is in danger of losing me because it's products have become so unfortunately boring. I like the Focus because it's fresh, and if not beautiful at least quite interesting and very "Euro" in style. Even better, according to all reports it's satisfying to drive. I can only hope that a high degree of quality, and ultimately longevity, will be evident as well. In my case I'm thinking about leasing a Focus, probably for three years, which makes the longevity issue somewhat less important. Were I buying, it'd be mighty tough to leave Honda.
FWIW, early intelligence on the 2001 Civic show an INCREDIBLE resemblance to the Focus. This might be bogus, but.....
You're right about the reliability, though. I just don't want to give up fun to keep it. Believe it or not, a Porsche 911 is under consideration. It doesn't hurt that my wife likes the 911 design. Well, it IS a classic.
Bruce.
In the meantime, here's the stat page from Ford on the Focus. Any surprises here?
carlady/host
To Bruce: wow, what a post! A 911 would be so extremely cool - there's no arguing against it, and never will be. By the way, I recall seeing a "Used Car Classic" article in Road & Track maybe five years or so ago on the 911...if you haven't seen it already you may want to check their archives. They lauded both the driveability and long-term (in some cases VERY long-term!) durability of this "exoticar."
About the CRX: I've thought about rebuilding mine, too, but three basic considerations get in the way. First, I'm not a mechanic and really don't want to get into a "project" which involves grease under the fingernails every night of the week. Second, sooner or later EVERYTHING on the car is going to wear out, even if I rebuild the major bits first. Last, at this point it'd be really fun to have a NEW car again. Thus my interest in the Focus, which seems to be the closest thing to a modern CRX. It's not a two-seater, true, but in spirit I see a parallel. Anyway, this has been fun. And, if you go for a 911, I'm glad that your better half's already "on board!"
Oddly enough, I've been rear ended 4 times in my poor little CRX. Minor collisions, but it clearly shows the dangers of such a small car. I'm convinced 2 of the 4 accidents were caused because the person was looking over the top of my car and didn't "see" me. Yet one more reason to hate SUVs...
Bruce
I read a bit about the focus's euro NCAP crash test being re-done/repeated because of some sort of arm injury from the door molding? But that otherwise it crashed well?
Anywhere to get a schedule of when they will be US crashed (NHTSA, IIS)?
Can't decide on what to buy until the tests are available,
Seems Crx owners are drawn to the ZX3 .... I also am looking to replace a CRX (89).
The reason why there are certain accessories on one vehicle and not another is that there are three sedan models, one wagon and one hatch back.
If you want all the goodies get the ZTS. You will not save money adding stuff to the ZX3, in fact it will cost more. The ZX3 is the budget car.
So you will be losing space in the back? There is a neat trick in the sedans and maybe the wagon where you open up the truck and lower the seats. More cargo room. The back piece behind the wagon seat might detach.
There is a big problem with stilt steering and that the whole steering column rests on a plastic clip. When the clip breaks and you have to take apart the whole steering column to fix it. Just move the seat. Moon roofs leak like a sieve. Just because it looks cool, doesn't mean it works. If you like the looks and want the top down, get a convertible Jetta.
I'm surprised nobody said they wanted a Zetec turbo.
There is a big reason why Ford is using the two 4 cyl. and that is space. The engine fills up the whole compartment and with air conditioning, you can barely see a belt. There is no way they can slap a 6 cyl. in there.
Here are more general Ford accessory problems:
There is a cruise control recall
Surfboard racks don't adjust to fit slim boards (one customer thought they were more for wind sail boards).
The car covers are on back order along with the carpets.
Chances are the bras don't fit or are too generic (for instance they might have holes for fog lamps that aren't in your model).
There is no wood in Ford products since the 30's or 40's. Customers complained about the upkeep so Ford stopped.
Accessories are non returnable to Ford and if you special order an accessory and don't like it, you might be stuck with it. Accessories generally take 10 days when not on backorder.
And, since you are so good at explaining away facts, how could adding cruise, tilt or a few other OPTIONS possibly make a hatchback more expensive than the high end sedan? Try grade school math while using Edmunds' invoice and MSRP prices as referents.
The 911 would have good "active safety," but not of the same caliber as the CRX, in my opinion. Why? Not because the 911 doesn't handle well, but because it has a rear weight bias which can make the tail swing around VERY fast unless the driver knows how to handle it. A front-driver like the CRX is very benign by comparison. The CRX also doesn't have nearly as much power, and excess power is another thing that gets many drivers into very deep trouble before they realize what's happening.
Re: the Focus. Since I'm thinking of leasing, I wonder what the monthly payment would be for a ZX3...and how it would compare to that of, say, an Integra. Hmm. Now THAT would be a great CRX replacement! Any thoughts?
Anyway, I've always been a die hard Ford hater, as a matter of fact the only MAerican car company I've ever liked is AMC (r.i.p. 1987). However, I admit Ford does make some really nice performance hatchbacks, in Europe. The Focus ZX3 is the first of those to reach the U.S., and while it may be slightly watered down, I think it looks really good on paper and I'm dying to test drive one.
The 130 hp 2.0L engine sounds nice, the standadrd 15" alloys are pretty good, the leather wrapped steering wheel is a plus for a hatch, and the exterior is very euro-modern. I really don't like the other models, sedan or wagon, they look like bastardized corrolas and mini-taurus wagons. I already bought a car so I'm no posistion to get one now, but maybe a few years down the road I'll grab a new one.
If you haven't driven a Focus, however, I do think the high seating position and lack of lumbar support will take a lot of getting used to, and the acceleration is not impressive. (I have only driven sedans and Euro hatches, however).
Some other items which were brought up in this forum and I think can be public knowledge (I work for a large Dearborn based auto company):
-Job 1 was October 4 in Hermosillo, Mex. This is the only place the 3-door is made, but anecdotal quality seems higher than Wayne, MI. Nobody can tell me when they're going to show up at dealers.
-Power options sometimes show up mid-year. They're aiming for a simple initial launch in this country. Canada and Mexico get a base hatch with the SPI engine. If you really need cruise or power windows or something, odds are pretty good if you wait a few months you might be able to get it. (no promises, however)
-The European version is actually more different than it first seems (I have a really long list). Many of the suppliers are new, parts made by different companies in completely different fashions. That's why there were those initial 'recalls' and such. I wouldn't expect too much correlation between Euro warranty repairs and the US ones.
-I can't get a brochure either. I dug up an owners manual, warranty guide, and detailed engine power and torque curves (sorry I can't give them to you, thanks for asking), but no brochures...
I wouldn't be surprised, given your employer, if a lot of Focus-oriented questions begin to come your way!
Restoring your CRX, huh? Interesting...good luck with that.
Also interesting was your info about new suppliers for the North American Focus. 'Sounds like a good reason, frankly, to stay away from the car for a year or two so we can all see how reliability concerns shake out. Actually, I hope the Focus sells well, but right now my old CRX is starting to look better than I'd remembered...
http://www.auto.com/reviews/fp_0811_focus.htm
....and...
http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?srv=review&act=search&tf=/reviews_results.tmpl&mkid=14&mdid=3277&yr=2000&rvid=32729
It seems that one of the raps on the Focus was two fold, the seat. Evidentially the mechanism for adjusting the height is strangely akin to a sissor jack, as the reviewer put it, like an old crank start handle on a model T. and secondly the gap between the seat back and bottom can be extreme enough for a wallet to fall out into the back area.
Another is the "watering down of the suspension" of the European model to suit older American drivers, suffering from hemorroids I assume.
Low fiber diets mean the Big Three will keep feeding you soft cars.
Yet it seems like the kind of "niche" car I was looking for to break the Honda/VW deadlock.
So why is Ford of America not agressively marketing an albeit low margin car that seems to truely challenge this part of the domestic car market?
Ah well, I just thought it would be nice to share.
Since the Focus is going to be new and possibly in demand, you might find that it's harder to get the price down, plus it's always a dubious proposition to buy newly introduced models--there are always breaking-in pains with new models that get fixed in the second and third years. I know the Focus is not completely new, but it is significantly different from the European model, and I am shy of newly introduced models.
All in all, we'll want to test-drive and price both when our planned purchase time of May, 2000 rolls around, but if we were forced to make a choice right now, we'd save our 800 bucks and sacrifice the 24 horses--my wife won't miss them, anyway--and go for the Honda. But if a Ford dealer will meet a Honda dealer's price, we'll take the extra power in the engine, and take our chances on reliability. It's pretty simple, really.
I guess I do have to wonder who will buy these, though. The hatchback marketplace continues to shrink for whatever reason.
Escorts, Aspires, Festivas, and now...Focus?
Ho hum...I guess time will tell...
Who knows, maybe reliability will improve, and resale values won't remain in the toilet?
Oh well, I guess I did stir the pot after all...
But...that's just how I see things.
Another CRX ? Doubtful!