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VW Golf

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  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Link works for me, but you can also get there from "tips and advice" on the menu line.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    found it - thanks
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    edited December 2010
    Please post your CarCostCanada Dealer Invoice (wholesale) Prices for the Golf 5 dr Wagon TDI.
    Please only post purchases made in Canada and in Cdn dollars.

    Or post the price you paid if you don't know Dealer Cost.

    - state whether Comfortline or Highline and DSG or 6 sp manual trans.
    - options, if any
    - Province and City

    For comparisons sake, this is Manufacturers Suggested List on:
    2011 Golf 5 dr Wagon TDI
    Comfortline 6 MT MSRP is 26875.
    Destination 1365.
    28240.
    + 100. A/C excise tax
    + other taxes

    If there appear to be few results, then feel free to post pricing on gas engine also, but make sure you specify the engine.

    Trying to find out just what kind of discount can be had on the TDI.
    In Cda, for 2011, the TDI is only available in the Golf 5 dr wagon.
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    I agree with your statement.

    Diesel cars are considered more expensive to maintain. Unlike earlier diesel which had no turbo nor high pressure injection, modern ones are much more "sensitive".
    For instance, they are much less tolerant to bad quality diesel. Filling-up in a supermarket (10% cheaper than in branded gas station in France) is not advised for a modern diesel, according to my dealer.

    On the contrary, a gas engine is relatively simple and not that demanding.

    As Diesel is about %15 cheaper than gas in this country and that this car is intended for 140K Miles, the extra investment over gas will be recoupped in the long term.

    We subscribed for an all-inclusive warranty and repair over a 6 -year period. Maintenance costs will be therefore set without surprise. With a regular maintenance and good quality oil, there is no reason this car could not reach 200K miles without major issue.

    On a side note, delivery of the car has been delayed to the beginning of february. This makes a delivery lead time of more than 3 months
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  • There are a few differences between France and North America. First, the fuel in the US and Canada is all pretty good; but it is important to buy from busy stations that get frequent deliveries. So avoid the lazy neighborhood stations that might only sell a thousand gallons a month, so only get one delivery. The busy stations tend to be the ones with the lowest prices, and they may get deliveries every day or even several.

    Increasingly, more gas-engine cars will have turbos and higher-pressure fuel injection for better fuel economy and performance. So maintenance and repair costs will equalize, if indeed gas engines were more expensive. Diesels are not more complicated, the main complexity is with pollution control devices.

    In the US diesel has been about 10% more expensive at the pumps, but the cost per mile for TDIs is still much less. Golf TDIs come with more features and equipment as standard equipment compared to the gassers, but if you could equalize the equipment then the TDI engine itself adds about $2000. This higher value increases over time; the resale value of TDIs holds up better than comparable gas-engine models.

    Lastly, TDIs make more sense if you drive more miles. If you only drive 10k-15k miles a year, then no matter what you drive it won't consume that much fuel. But if you drive 20k-50k miles a year, then a TDI can be the best investment you every make.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    Wow, long wait..I feel bad for you. Once u decide what u plan to buy, the wait can be grueling, especially if your present car is ailing.

    I suspect we will eventually see more diesel choices in NA. For example, why we can't have the Polo here is beyond me. They are on the hybrid, and full battery kick. But no one seems to care that their efficiency goes down the farther north you live, and plummets in freezing climates.

    Like i always tell anyone who asks me what to buy if both engines are available, and they drive many miles or pull heavy loads often...if gasoline was a superior fuel with superior advantages, then railroad engines, heavy trucks and even city buses would all still use gas.
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    edited January 2011
    >Wow, long wait..

    The previous passat ordered as new took about 6 month to come. It seems a majority of German cars sold in Europe are ordered this way. I think this is because of the wealth of options.
    If one is not demanding in terms of colors or options, then one can buy an available car from the lot. But the options set we required (auto tranny + leather) is seldomly available on this class of car. Therefore, we need to place order.

    > why we can't have the Polo here is beyond me

    Actually, the top of the line Polo cost in Europe about 25K Euros, that easily exceeds 30K USD. Margins are tighter on small cars and the Euro is expensive, so there is no business case for US market to import Germany made Polos.
    Basically, the Polo is a small Golf, so I assume tooling costs are close for both models. I speculate that duplicating the tooling in order to manufacture it in Mexico may not be considered as profitable.

    I also think a reasonably priced Polo could make a hit in the US market with the latest TSI motors (I think TDI motors would be too expensive). One good option would be to build it in the future VW US plant. I don't see it coming soon, as I already have doubts about the profitability of the Honda Fit, the toyota Yaris or the Mazda 2 in this side of the pond.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    Oh, I didn't realize the Polo was so expensive. I thought it had a little inline 3 cyl turbo dsl.
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    Well, there is still a debate in France on whether gas sold by oil companies is better than gas sold by supermarkets. Although there are fewer supermarket-controlled gas stations, they account for about half of all the sold petroleum in the country.

    In other words, supermarket gas station are much busier than the average brand gas station. It would make sense to consider, all things being equal, that gas bought from a busier station would be more secure. It is claimed however that oil companies follow stricter standards and quality control procedures. Other claims are that some better additives are mixed in the petrol while Supermarkets would be a step behind in that matter. This is a long debate here. But I keep in mind what you say in case I am lucky enough to travel to North America.

    >Lastly, TDIs make more sense if you drive more miles
    The "break even point" between Diesel or Gas is also considered at around
    10K miles (15k km). Given that Diesel is more expensive in the US and that diesel car command a large premium, I am surprised by how close the figure you quote is to France's.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Europe is a completely different market from the US and car prices are all much higher than in the US. It's not quite current, but according to this:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q2/2009_volkswagen_polo-first_drive_re- view

    the Polo was starting at the equivalent of $17,000 in Germany.

    And according to this: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/08q4/2010_volkswagen_golf_rabbit-second_- drive

    The Golf starts at the equivalent of $22,500...and that's with a 79 HP, 1.4L engine.
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    >The Golf starts at the equivalent of $22,500...and that's with a 79 HP, 1.4L engine.

    I don't even mention this totally underpowered version as there is close to zero chance such a model would sell in the US. And base trim may not even include aircon.
    The most ridiculous is that people still buy this...

    Is the 160HP 1.4 TSI version selling in the US ? This is both a potent and fuel saving engine. Much better than the V5
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    on the German Autobild magazine.

    http://www.autobild.de/artikel/der-grosse-auto-bild-wintertest-1032041.html

    In this winter test, the Golf wins a comparison with the Opel Astra and the Prius (in German).

    Basically burns as little diesel as the Prius burns gas but outhandles the prius by a wide margin.
    Also outhandles the heavier and thirstier astra.
  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    where are you in France? :shades:
  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    How can a VW polo with a 1.4 liter compete with the fiesta, or any other 1.6 liter ? It seems under powered.
    :shades: TY
  • 73837383 Posts: 1
    Am close to purchase of 2011 Golf 2.5 6A 4dr with sunroof and bluetooth. This would replace 2004 Acura TSX which has served well. Vehicle is used for daily commute of 80 miles of twisty mountain roads. Test drives of Golf suggest that (with standard tires/wheels) it is much smoother and quieter than the TSX, and that the handling, while not as sharp, is very acceptable. We have driven and considered the TDI and like it, but want vehicle that uses regular 87 octane gasoline. Am interested in observations of those on this forum who have experience with the Golf 2.5 vehicle and engine, particularly with respect to real world fuel economy and reliability over the 130K miles we normally retain our vehicles. (The TSX averages 28.5 on 91 octane. We are hoping for significantly better economy with the VW on 87 octane, but may be dreaming.) Any and all input on this vehicle is welcome and thanks.
  • Since you have such a long daily commute, you would most likely benefit from the much better fuel economy with the Golf TDI. TDIs also retain more of their value, in case you decide to trade after 130k miles or so; but they are also more reliable in the long term, in case you decide to keep it for 300k or 400k miles.

    From what I've heard, typical fuel economy for the 2.5-liter gas engine is in the 25-28 mpg range. Fuel economy with the current 2.0-liter TDI engine can be in the 38-42 mpg range. So with the gasser. about 350-400 gallons of fuel every 10k miles; with the TDI, somewhere around 250 gallons. Do the calculations yourself, using AAA fuel price numbers for your state; or make an estimate of what you think will happen to fuel prices in the future.

    The more you drive, the more sense a TDI makes. The higher fuel prices go, the more sense a TDI makes. Also, if fuel prices go higher, then TDI resale and trade-in values will go higher.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    edited January 2011
    I agree with jbaustian. I would also add that in hilly mountainous terrain, the TDI has a lot more torque than the 2.5 and will come closer to providing the better economy rated firgures than the 2.5. If lived in the mountains and drove that many miles every day, this would be a no contest. The TDI would decidely win out by a huge margin. I know it isn't what you wanted to hear tho..

    If you would consider the TDI, I highly recommend taking both on the very route you plan to drive everyday. You will see that the TDI will hill climb and have a lot more torque for passing on a hill also. If you haven't tried one, you will be totally amazed. If your concern is no handy diesel refueling stns close by, I would simply keep one or two 5 gal jerry cans of fuel at home. Just one can would let you make over 3 daily commutes.
    The TDI would give over 50! mpg on flatter terrain and in the summer. So fort hills and including the winter fuel differences, I'd say you would still get real world of over 40 mpg easily. Keep in mind too that in A/C weather, again the torque of the TDI will not fall prey to the load on the engine with A/C nearly as much as with the gas engine.

    The ONLY caution I have with the new 'clean diesels' are the measures they have taken to get them to pass the enviro regs here. They are laden down with more electronics and pre and after burner type tech that someday will cost money to fix. Give me a 2006 TDI anyday.
    I still think if i did your miles, I'd still go with the TDI and plan to keep the car for 200k mi or even a bit more. Say 10 years? They have among the best rust corrosion resistance so I think that if you maintained the car with proper oil changes etc (and if you live a top a hill, I would idle the turbo down for about one minute before shutting off) I think you could surpass your 130k mi tradein interval by a fair bit. I am almost inclined to say you could probably dbl it. And the fuel savings over 260k mi would be approx 3800 gallons fewer that you would burn. I used 42 on the TDI and 26 on the 2.5. I penalized the FE of the 2.5 cuz of the hills and A/C in the hills. Fact is, over 260k mi. I actually think you would avg more than 42 with the TDI. My friend averaged 56 mpg with his old 86 Jetta TDsl over the LIFE of the car. (over 300k mi when he traded it on a new 2011 Golf wgn). He never required turbo work. Never had any internal engine parts replaced except for timing belts and waterpumps. Replaced the glowplugs only once. It did have a bad diesel injector pump leak which was the deciding factor to finally retire the car. He also hadn't fixed the A/C for the last few years and really missed that in the summer. He regularly got 65 mpg hwy and 50 strictly city, in the summer using A/C with a manual tran. No mountains tho, but lots of city stop and go. So subtract 20% cuz if u are in the USA, your gal is smaller.

    Owners who would be best to shy away from owning a diesel would be ones who live in town and only drive a few miles to work or the store. Short trips, especially in the winter, is what will prematurely kill a diesel. You guys tho are excellent candidates if you ask me.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I'd not expect significantly better mpg, maybe 1-2 mpg better, based on EPA ratings and CR tests for the 2004 TSX and the 2010/2011 Golf.
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    I Live 20 miles south of Paris. Office is in Paris center
  • vchiuvchiu Posts: 565
    >How can a VW polo with a 1.4 liter compete with the fiesta, or any other 1.6 liter ?

    I would rather see the 105HP 1.2 TSI compete with non turbocharged 1.6 engines. Thanks to this little wonder, the Polo can go around 9.5 sec 0-62mph with the DSG. I think the Honda Fit, the Fiesta and the Yaris will need above 10sec for the same run.

    And VW announce good fuel mileage figures.
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