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One thing to consider if you want to buy this one out: Talk to you dealer about buying it back from them as a "Certified Saab". What happens is that the dealer takes the car back and after certification you get a good extension on your warranty. I think it takes it to 100K. The certification does cost though. You might be surprised and find the buy back from the dealer to be a similar price though. Never know until you research it.
Good Luck
Drew
PS.. I'd strongly recommend extended warranty wether thru Saabs certification or buying one on your own.
the only advice i've read (which is here at edmunds) is to move up the ladder until you get to a decisionmaker. the first level you get to can only spout the party line. if you can get to the right person, they might consider an offer greater than what the car would wholesale for.
my guess is that 50k is a lot higher mileage than most leased cars out there.
ours needed new brakes at 30k. how has your car held up?
My only dissapointent with the first 9-5 was an oddly worn rear brake rotor that had to be replaced. I should have argued that one for a warranty repair but didn't. If it happens again, I most definately will fight it.
Drew
based on the amount of brake dust on the wheels, i wasn't surprised though. the traction control uses the brakes too.
the new ones don't seem to make as much 'dust'.
I am not sure which way I may go. One one hand, the certified vehicle extends the warranty thru 11/2006 or 95K miles. On the other hand, I know what my vehicle is like.
The "Clunking" sound you referred to is coming from the Fuel Tank. It's a problem that many owners experience in the 9-5. For some reason the design had this issue with a half to 3/4 full tank. Not all 9-5 owners had this. Saab had a fix that meant putting in baffles which reduced fuel capacity by a couple of gallons. We did NOT have this problem with any of our two previous 9-5's. If I had noticed it in a car I was interested in, I probably would have passed on it. Some Owners reporting this have been very annoyed.
If the dealer could not correct the pulling problem, I'd be concerned about the quality of their "Certification work" and future service work. I would expect a certified car to be Free of these issues.
Good Luck
Drew
uneven tire pressure can result in pullng to the side. too high can make a lot of noise.
check the tread on the tires as compared to new ones. you want as much as possible.
at least the converter was replaced after to 'fuel injection'. their problems are probably related. in our wagon, you can actually hear the gas slosh around, 'feel it' too. i don't drive it on a regular basis, and don't experience it all the time, but if it happens between 3/4 and 1/2 a tank, that may be why. the clunk might also be related to the wheel bearing replacement.
i would think even certified cars are negotiable.
you should still get the cert car checked out before you buy.
We have heard that Saab does not negotiate on buy-outs, although we have read isolated accounts of knocking off $1,300 in last 48 hours before the lease ended, and one person said Saab was willing to extend the 4-year warranty to 7 years. (Saab Financial has told us they will do nothing for us at all.)
It seems to us that the SE/Arc model has not changed much in three years, altho some things we like have been eliminated: V-6 engine and standard Onstar installation (optional installation is $700). In favor of buying: Little change in model. Already eaten 3 years depreciation. Car is a known quantity. Some things we like no longer offered. Avoid turn in penalties of $1,383 (At 36,000 mileage -- 6,000 over mileage @ .20 = $1,200; and Saab Financial inspection assessed excess wear and tear at $183.) We don’t know whether our repair history is a pro or con in terms of buying the car at lease-end: minor roof leak at the outset; rear brakes at 25,000 miles; catalytic converter at 32,000; oil leak at 32,000; split axle boot at 32,000; the biggie is that the transmission was replaced at 30,000.
While we were considering all this, the dealer called and offered us: no last month payment of $443, and a sale price for the 2004 Arc wagon (including auto. transmission & premium package) of $32,650. Specific questions: Does Saab negotiate lease buy-outs at all (reduce price, extend warranty)? Why did Saab eliminate SE V-6? Will we feel the lack of V-6 with the 2004 Arc (power, acceleration)? Are we correct in thinking there have been no major improvements to the 9-5 SE/Arc wagon in 3 years (since 2001 model)? Is transmission replacement a pro or con for buying out lease? Once Saab has done the end of lease inspection – assuming nothing else has happened to the car, can they assess higher excess wear and tear figure? Thanks for answers to any questions.
our car has been pretty good, sid was replaced, chronic oil leak, that was evenually fixed for good (although they pulled the engine looking for it). brakes replaced at 30k(paid for pads and labor, dics were comped). car has been in a couple of collisions, though(no sheet metal replaced).
what kind of things did they write up as excess wear and tear?
our dealer called last thursday offering a 3 month early turn in program. btw a 4k incentive expired last monday. did you get a $500 saving certificate?
If we end up with a repair history like yours, I will not be entertaining the idea of buying off lease. I certainly would not pay over the Edmunds Used car quote. I honestly belive you could be looking at an expensive repair future.
FWIW.. the V6 was dropped because of poor sales. I am not a fan of it and think it will prove to be an expensive engine to maintain in the long run. I think Saab is realizing this as well. There is at least one fan here of the V6 but not me. I can't prove or disprove my position but the dropping decision suggests I have a valid concern IMO.
Good Luck
Drew
Well it's been nine months since I purchased my 1999 9-5 wagon. The wagon had 90,000 km. on it at that time. The car is great and has been a delight even through this tough winter we're having in southern Ontario - it is winter and it is Canada! Do not have snows on it but perhaps before next winter will think on it. The Saab seems a bit lower than my Sable wagon. The tracs and ABS have been a real help on the slippery days and the front and rear heated seats a real comfort! Had one headlight replaced already and now need the other replaced at next oil change (soon). Timing belt was changed in summer when it had its large (read $$$) checkup. Saab dealer seems pretty good. I try to keep this black baby clean of salt and etc. but it's tough!
Will check back from time to time!
We decided to return the 2001 SE, paying the disposition fee, repair assessment and over-mileage charge, and purchased a 2004 9-5 Arc Wagon. As of Feb. 13, 2004 in NYC, the $4500 manufacturer incentive and the $500 customer loyalty incentive were both available. Our final price was $32,150 ($35,100 with taxes & fees).
I should also mention that by turning in the leased 2001 and taking delivery of the 2004 by the day before our last payment was due, we also saved the last lease payment of $443. We should be getting a final bill from SFSC showing the repair bill, disposition fee + tax, and the over-mileage fee, less the amount of the last payment (we had already sent the check away before we decided to buy in a hurry). This forced us to settle for what the dealer had in stock, but he had a Grey Arc with automatic transm. & premium package, and that is pretty much all we wanted.
After a week, I would say we are satisfied with the 2004 Arc. It handles the same as the 2001 V6, handles lighter and seems to have as much or more pickup. The interior leather seems less luxurious, the grey interior color is a bit lighter, the steering wheel wrap is thinner, and there are no heated rear seats. This and the lack of included OnStar (now $700 as an optional install on the Linear & Arc) may be what's keeping the price of the car down. We probably won't miss OnStar, because they were never able to diagnose a problem or open car doors owing to Saab proprietary policies or something, and the built-in voice activation cell phone was very cumbersome to use (though it was hands free).
The v6 was dropped for obvious reasons. They didn't sell well and the i4 is just a better engine. At least compared to the V6 Saab had. It will be expensive as it ages.
Saabs I4 is a great engine. The reason someone described it as a Truck like is due to the fact that at idle it is not as smooth as the V6 and even other i4's. The reason is because Saab has alot of hp in this small engine as compared to other i4's... Its simply a trade off. If a rougher idle when sitting at stop lights bothers you, don't get the i4 unless it's a 5 or 6 speed that will be in neural at idle.
IMO.. avoid the v6 unless you'll have a warranty during the life of your ownership. Actually, Saabs are expensive in any form after warranty. We're on our 3rd Saab.
Drew
The 4 is a genuine proven Saab engine that last forever. I see many on the road with incredibly high mileage that don't burn oil.
The V6 is based on much less durable Opel engine.
The brand new Opel engines are probably as good as the Saab nowadays (Opel has improved tremendously lately) but the V6 in the 9-5 is the previous uninspired Opel engine which I found rather loud, rough at high rpm and much less poweful than the 4 in an aero.
I'd really like to have the Aero wagon that's the "Big Dog in Town" of all local Saabs. If you have had a good or poor experience with improved performance modifications as well as appearance or "stylin'" add-ons, I'd love to hear your story. I don't check the Forums as often as I'd like, but I promise to read, evaluate, and respond to your missives within 2-3 weeks (sooner if possible). My current ride is fine, it's just that it doesn't have a hatch (my first 3 Saabs were 9000s) and is a beautiful shade of Arrest Me Red (I mean Imola Red, of course). I'd like to drive something a bit more subtle, but with a go factor beyond the normal, "This one goes to 11!" If I could drive a wagon that rips off sub-six second dashes to 60, had a decent all-wheel drive system (a la the Pike's Peak 9-3 of a few summers ago), cornered like a 911, and LOOKED like a grocery-getter, I'd spring for it.
kcram
Host - Wagons
If GM really wanted to have SAAB perform in the marketplace they would start with a product as least as advanced as Volvo or Audi. That means a quick phone call to Haldex for an AWD system to throw under their vehicles, adding more differentiation to the AERO with a high revving V6 stolen from Holden or someone, aluminium pedals, etc. Maybe even adding additonal segmenation by having a stripped down, low MSRP, wash it out with a hose, outdoorsy version of the 9-3 like Nissan does with the Xtera. The early 20's crowd would eat it up.
Then they would borrow a page from Saturn and have transaction prices fairly close to MSRP (i.e, no more fictitous list prices that no one pays and that only cheapens the brand) and a better ownership experience. Believe it or not they might try to support some of the Saab groups (New England Saab Owners, for one) still out there.
But the biggest problem is the product. The potential SAAB buyer may be different but he ain't stupid: four cylinders and 2WD don't make it anymore in the (winter) niche that SAAB invented. (I can remember when half the faculty at Cornell was running two stroke SAABs with canvas snap on covers across the radiators for cold mornings in Ithaca. What AWD Swedish and German cars do you think they now drive?).
However, I agree with you. SAAB would have been better off in the market place had they offered an AWD option.
As for safety, Saturn and similar vehicles just don't cut it. SAAB has (or had) extremely high standards with crash investigations and testing being a significant part of the vehicle design process. Testing is an important part of the design process, however it is also the most expensive. I also doesn't stick out on the show room floor.
Interesting comment about the 2 cylinder SAABs in Ithaca. I remember going to Aspen Co. in the 1980's. Their police department was using a SAAB fleet.
Also, Volvo may replace them soon:
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20050308/NEWS/103080004
Also Dodge announced a Charger police version with both 6 cylinder and Hemi powerplants at the NY auto show last week which will be available this fall.
So I guess we overcame the fear over Saab's financial health, and hopefully our purchase will keep them solvent a while longer.
You'll love the Saab. We're nearing the end with our 3rd Saab, 2002 Steel Grey Wagon. This one is a lease and I DON'T want to turn it in. If Saab financial would give me a decent buy out, I'd buy it but that's not looking good at this point. So May 11th could be a sad day here. We've had Two 9-5's and althougth they are getting a bit Dated by 2005 Standards, they are still Amazing cars!
Sadly, I see Saab has taken out some of the features available in earlier years.
As far as Comments I've seen on this page about GM and Saab etc.:
Yeah, the General is in control and they've done at least Two REALLY Bonehead moves. First, the Saabaru then the SaabBlazer. What a Shame. Look that the HIT Volvo had with a great SUV design. They can't keep them on the lot even at the insane Volvo pricing and Horrible Electronic Problems.
I've read recently GM dropped the planned Saab/ Subaru version of the Tribecta and do an SUV Saab on a different GM chasis more in line with what they did for the new 9-3. That should be better. The 9-3 hit a good mark IMO. Take a look at the BMW X3 next time you see one on the road. Imagine a Saab grill on it and you think.. wow now that looks exacly like a Saab design similar to the last versions of the original 900. Think of it next time you see one, you'll see it too.
Also, I find in encouraging that GM plans to design and build a new European Cadillac at the Saab plant in Sweden. Now that could keep Saab on a respirator.
I'm hopeful
Drew
Reliability data seems to consistently place Saab ahead of Volvo, although neither are in the same class as Japanese brands. The interesting thing that I found was that both Saab and Volvo seemed to do better than most German car brands in reliability among German car owners. Again, Saab did better than Volvo in this poll.