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BMW 5 Series Sport Wagons
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I'm looking at a Pre-Owned 99 540 Wagon with 78,359 miles, titanium Gray, automatic, in absolutely beautiful condition. Asking price is $28,777. Any advise as to whether or not this is an adequately priced vehicle. I'm in California and the dealer is Weatherford of BMW.
Thanks in advance -
Cipo -
Revka
Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
I am very impressed with the car over the last two weeks. I hope I do not miss the SP!
Any idea if the new platform will include a wagon.
It would be great timing when my lease is up. I hate sedans and Automatics!
Just as a side note,the other two wagons that I am considering are th Saab 9-5 Aero and the Volvo XC70. The Audi A4 Avant is stunning but a little small for my lifestyle.
Good luck!
Anyway,getting to the comparison,I think the VW will definitely be much faster and the AWD is a definite bonus. All in all,it's very interesting package that I personally think deserves a serious look.
The 525 speaks for itself so I don't think I would be saying anything that has not already been said. One point however which you may want to consider is that this is the last year for this model. I look at this as an opportunity to grab what may be one of the finest sedans/Wagons on the planet. Although the technology and designs are advancing,I think the auto manufactures are making their new models less interesting and as a result,they are loosing their identity.
Loss of quality is also an issue on some of these newer models.
Just my 2 cents on this.
A friend of mine is a Saab mechanic. He says that the 9-5 is the best one they've built, BUT he says there have always been problems with the plugs because they have a coil for each plug. The high temps of the turbos make these fail and he says it's very expensive to fix it. It is a flaw, he feels in the design. I read that for 2003 they have changed it (I imagine lots of angry drivers got them to fix this problem that wasn't an "if" problem, but a "when" problem.) That took the Saab out of the running for me. The Volvos have a reputation for AWD troubles from what I've read. The Passat is one I'm interested in but the AWD drops the gas mileage a lot. For Audis, if you want a fast one, look at the S6 wagon. It's very fast and sporty. My brother has an A6 3.3 with sport package and loves it.
I've always wanted a bimmer wagon. I'm looking at two 99 528 sedans, but today saw a 99 528t. It's an automatic, with 67km on it, no packages though. It has had a fender bender in the back quarter panel fixed by BMW. They want 33,900.00 for it which seems a bit high since it's had an accident and doesn't have any sprot or premium package. They have had it for a month and say they want to move it. It might be something I could get them to drop the price a bit more on. I don't know if there's much advantage to this wagon vs. a 528i with sport, or one with the premium package, both for 36,900.00 All of them would be pushing my budget. My brother says for that money I could get a brand new A4, or a decked out Subaru, or late model Passat. But they don't have the style of the BMWs for me.
my 2 cents,
cdn driver
Here is my two cents on the various topics I have seen recently.
1. The competition that I test drove as compared to my purchase:
525iT - great handling even without the SP (which I thought would have been a deal breaker). Power - Another concern. Almost went with 530 but I hate sedans. With the 5 speed, this car is great at the lower gears. Lack of torque is noticeable above 80 mph but not enough to sacrifice stick or wagon. If I had to get an automatic and could not afford the 540, I would be really perplexed. I agree that the power would probably be under whelming and a deal breaker. I would probably have to go with the W8 or the A6 3.0.The Future 5 series - I've heard mixed info on survival of wagon ranging from production stopping on '03 in 3/03 and no more wagons ever to hatchback and wagon in next generation.
Snow Handling - You know I never had a problem in upstate NY with my college car which was a 4 speed '78 RWD Buick SkyHawk with snow tires so I doubt I will have a problem with my BMW with stability and traction control plus snow tires when I go to my ski house every weekend. Hell, I would do it without snows. As a matter of fact, I did it this past weekend with a couple of inches without snows and it never wavered.
a. A4 3.0 5speed - Excellent power. No room to haul things. Right knee rubbed against center console. Concern about quality. Did not handle as well as the BMW. The right knee thing really bothers me and it perplexed C&D in a recent review. If they can't get this right, what about other areas.
b. A6 3.0 -no stick
c. S6 - too much money
d. Allroad - too much money and not great handling
e. Volvo T6 - good power. terrible handling and the worse shocks. My '92 Integra with 160,000 miles and original shocks felt better!
f. W8 - did not test drive but drove the V6 extensively. Concerned about reliabilty and bad handling
g. SAAB 95 - The worst of the lot. The car is on a really old platform and it felt it.
1. I've had cars in which including something like a performance package made the ride fairly harsh! They weren't BMWs. How much effect on the ride quality does the PP have? Is getting this worth it on a 184 hp vehicle?
2. From some of the notes it appears that BMW may quit producing the 2003 525i wagons well before I'd pick one up in July in Munich. Is this the case? What is likely to happen if I order one in, say, January 2003 to be picked up in Munich in July 2003? Will they produce it and just let is sit for a few months?
The dealer told me that the last production month is 3/03. I would ask the dealer about waiting around until July to pick it up.
Two final questions:
1. I have not been happy with home-version of Harmon Kardon products. Is this upgrade really worth it? (Or are the good ways to improve the sound otherwise).
2. I know nothing about Xenon headlight systems. Are they worth the $500?
Thanks very much to whomever replies. Please let me know the background of your BMW experience with your responses.
As for your other questions: I think the HK system is standard on 3-series now, although it used to be an option. Nevertheless, I think it's a worthwhile upgrade. On the 5-series, the only audio option is a DSP Premium system, which has attracted much debate over its value. I personally like it and have opted for it, but you should listen to it yourself and decide. The xenon lights are awesome and well worth the price. Their light output is far superior to standard halogens, so I consider them an important safety feature.
Thanks!
pickup), and a VW Cabrio . Neither my wife nor I seem to have a problem switching back and forth
among them. BUT you're certainly correct, it is
nice to be able to OVER what's in front of you.
On build quality, I'm not quite sure what people mean by that expression , but after owning four BMW's, I don't think they're all that strong in that department. Our current wagon has no squeaks or rattles (or at least it doesn't now that I've removed the luggage cover from the back), but neither did the Explorer, or any of the last several new cars we've owned over the past few years from a variety of foreign and domestic manufacturers. What the 5 has had though are a series of niggling problems, like plastic interior parts falling off (the kind of thing reviewers always freak over when it happens in a GM vehicle), warning lights going on for no reason, climate control acting funky, etc. etc. Nothing major, but a lot of trips to the dealer where we had to leave the car because they were so busy fixing niggling problems on other beemers.
And speaking of the climate conrol system,let me be the first (and doubtless only) voice in favor of opting for the manual system, and avoiding the optional CC. This system is a complete pain in the neck, and as far as I am concerned offers no real benefit (except possibly for resale value, since everyone expects a car in this price range to have one).
As to how to configure a potential purchase, I'd likewise disagree with just about everthing written above. The stock suspension is superb-unless you live on Hwy. 1, the "improvement" in handling provided by the SP is hardly worth the tradeoff in ride quality. The Xenon lights are not just inconsiderate to other drivers (not usually a consideration for BMW drivers but I thought I'd mention it), but worthless on steep hills (like the one I live on) since the self leveling feature keeps the lights from pointing up on an uphill, thereby rendering them ineffectual.
Don't opt for the upgraded stereo either. It's not as bad as the standard model (which is shockingly terrible), but an aftermarket upgrade to an ADS amp is a much less expensive and far superior solution.
And lastly, for those thinking of moving out of their SUV's into something that will be a little less harsh on the environment, our 5 wagon's mileage is stunningly poor. Our best mileage ever is barely 20 mpg (cruising down dead flat Hwy 5),and the car averages 17-18 mpg; this from a 2.5 litre engine with just over 180 hp. And using premium. (The car does, however, feel much faster than the official hp rating would suggest). Every time I rent a bigger more powerful domestic and get in the mid to high 20's on regular gas I'm reminded at how simply awful the 5's mileage really is.
So, with all of this griping, why am i still driving a 5 wagon with a big fat smile on my face, after having owned three other BMW's with similar limitations?
Like I said at the beginning, it's fun.
I tend to agree with much, though not all, of what you said. Think you are wrong about the Sport Package. But the 5 Series BMW sound systems are mediocrity incarnate. And paying a king's ransom for a mediocre upgrade isn't worth it. I, too, would prefer decent, simple manual climate control system. But a test drive with the family before you bought it would have quickly confirmed all that you have said regarding its lack of interior space, both for passengers and cargo. That is so obviously self evident, even with the Mark 1 eyeball (let alone with the assistance of the Federal EPA data). Maybe it proves the point that driving is more than just getting from Point A to Point B. It should be fun and rewarding. Something few SUVs or other wagons have going for them.
I spent a few days in a 2002 525i wagon when my wife's 2000 323i was being worked on. She loved it. I did, too. Would make a nice second car some day. But with the 4.4L V-8 over the 2.5L I-6.
I agreee that a 3.0 L in this wagon would be great but with my 5 speed I am able to make it hum. Unfortunately, the 4.4 does not come in stick version.
Any further updates on what skin, the E60 will be in? Sedan, Hatchback, Wagon (please!). Will 5 speed remain?
One final question. 91 Octane is required. Many companies (Exxon, Gulf) do not offer 91, only 93. An engineer friend of mine said that 93 does not allow ultimate performance. Is this true?
As for the fuel question, I take it your friend is not a chemical/mechanical engineer. While it's true that these cars are configured to delivery optimum performance at around 91 octane, anything higher (to an extent) will simply add greater engine knock protection (but will not add HP). Going LOWER than 91, however, and the engine will retard ignition timing and adjust the valvetrain to prevent knocks, which WILL reduce power output somewhat.
I have Michelin 225/55 R16 95H M+S and Michelin Alpin Snow Tires with the same configuration as the M+S.
1. Should the presure be different for the snows in each of the questions below? If so, please respond with both answers.
2. The maximum psi with four people is 30psi in the front and 36psi in the rear with four occupants. 80% of my driving is just me. What is the optimal pressure for driving alone? If I do have four passengers should the pressure be at the max of 30/36?
3. Same questions as 2, but the manual shows 36 (front) and 44 (rear) with 5 passengers and luggage. Why is their such a jump in pressure. Are the amounts in quotes pound limits. That is, 36(250).
4. Is there a weight guideline I can go by because I also have a luggage carrier I need to factor in, especially during ski season.
Thanks
I loved fastbuck's post (#178) as felt I might have written it. Auto climate control a hassle, xenon headlights a complete annoyance (flashed by other drivers 3-4 times daily on my 20-mile round trip commute in dark Britain), stereo was an abomination in a car this costly. And a few niggling problems (broken rear wiper, non-functional key, etc). (I actually do worry about the inconsiderate xenon lights, driving habits nonwithstanding).
But who buys a BMW for climate control and stereos? Before driving BMWs, I thought the 4000-6000 range on a tach was just for show, and in most cars it is. My wife's car (Camry equivalent), starts to create so much non-functional noise at 4500 rpm that I am compelled to shift up because it sounds as thought the engine might come through the firewall. The only thing keeping the beemer under 6500 rpm is the fuel shut-off to protect the engine from the occasionally overzealoous user. And it's true, the power band in these cars really is from about 4500-5500 and it does sound like a turbine all the way to the red. And the red is 60mph in second gear and 80mph in third so for those worried that shifting is too much work, you won't have to do that many all the way to the legal speed limit! Top speed? I'm no lunatic so have only had 530 up to 110mph, but it was glued to the road all the way there.
In short, people who can identify with the above paragraph, buy the beemer (if you are trolling these pages looking for validation). I would buy a used 530 wagon if I could in the US. (I'm looking at the 330 when I return.)
BTW, 530 with 5-speed got 28mpg in ordinary driving and 22 when pushed hard (4000-6000 rpm fast shifting) so seems a better engine considering 2.5 gets low 20s. For the other guy in these pages looking for European delivery in July 2003, consider the 530 wagon and your friends will never be able to touch it (literally).
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
But I am 5'11" and would like to know about how flat the loadbed is when you put the back seats down. Do the seat cushions fold forward against the front seats and then the back rests fold down or do the back rests just fold over onto the seat cushions?
Is it long enough for you to sleep in? I have lied down in the back of a jetta wagon and found i just fit if i was a little diagonal.
Also, alfismo: Need more details on the 528iaT you are considering to comment on it. Is it certified? What options does it have? The person who wrote the ad may not be up on their lingo re iat vs. it or even 528i Touring or just 5 series Touring i've seen them called or even 5 series wagon. How much are they asking? Can you sleep in the back or is the load bed making some kind of uncomfortable incline?
Yes, the nav systems now use a DVD (instead of the old CD), which unfortunately reverts the head unit into circa 1988 and the old cassette player.
What climate control problems are you referring to? Mine works fine.
Changes for 2004 will be substantial, assuming BMW will roll out the E60 platform in time for the model year change (estimates range from this Fall to next Spring).
mario
I have a 99 540iTa. No rattles or noises in the rear, except when I am hauling things. I definitely would persue having the dealer look at the car. Be firm.
How much would you pay for this car?
Also, when do these typically need a major overhaul (I think for most cars, stuff starts breaking/needing replacement between 100-125k?). Is it safe to assume that with about $1.5k investment, we can drive it until 150k miles?
Thanks in advance for your help and wisdom!
Beside the stupid sliding front armrest and cup holders, nothing has proven to be wrong with this car so far!
Often drive from Montréal to NYC and always a pleasure. (Please fellow Americans, don't stay glued on the left lane at 60 mph!!))))
Only the A6 Allroad and a re designed X5 (or upcoming X7?) would be a alternative choice to me when reaching 100k miles ! Not sure the 2005 5 series wagon will look that good....?
I also saw two very cool old wagons; a '69 Volvo with over 400,000 miles and a '62 Buick Special on Isle Au Hait
Read the full story here: 2004 BMW 5 Series Midsize Wagon. And let us know what you think.
Spy Photo of the 2004 BMW 5 Series 4dr Wagon:
Thanks for your comments! ;-)
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
I though the wagon was coming out as an '05. Any idea about engine size availability and what will be in stick?
The only complaint i have about my current tourer is that I could only get the 525 in a stick.
Thanks