VW Passat Wagon vs Subaru Wagons

dudleyr · May 2002

My Father has not had 1 problem with his 2000 Passat 1.8t manual wagon with over 50,000 miles.

ateixeira · May 2002

CR and Edmunds editors don't have to pay for a car, not do they pay for service, repairs, gas, etc. So they just pick the one they like best. We, on the other hand, have to account for those factors.

Oktoberfest! LOL. Check the build date, in the door jamb. :-)

Definitely buy what you love. If the VDC doesn't do it for you, try the LL Bean, which has a different AWD system and weighs a little less. Or wait until the H6 engine is put in a GT model. Those are lower and much sportier, but for now only come in the 4 banger.

-juice

frapzoid · May 2002

Just like the CR and Edmunds editors,I picked the
one I liked the best too...For those of you who are destitute, perhaps any car over 12k might not be a good choice. Heck if I can afford to maintain a BMW and 2 other cars I think I can keep just about any car in good shape. A friend of mine had a Maserati Bora restored and that thing was literally in the shop every other month!! I loved the performance of that thing ;-) If you ever get a chance to drive a real performance car jump on it! After that when people talk about 0-60 times in Passats or WRX's you be utterly unimpressed. If my Passat gives me the kind of reliability I have had with my other VW's and my BMW then I will be more than satisfied. For me the Passat is the better choice. For you the Subaru is the better choice and I see nothing wrong with that.

I can appreciate (to a degree) the zeal and ferocity you Subaru owners display when defending your car of choice. But there is nothing to date you have said that has made me think twice about my choice. I'm not sure why anybody would start this thread anyway. The 2 cars have little in common. Perhaps that is why there is so little common ground between us. As you know I don't care for Japanese cars. (Trying really hard to be diplomatic here) The styling for one thing
makes it easy for ME to not consider any of them to buy.
There are only only 4 Japanese cars that I would consider nice looking cars. The original Datsun 240Z, the original Datsun 240Z, the mid 90's Camry, and finally,the original Datsun 240Z. ;-)Seems to be a pattern here LOL. But none of those are wagons.

Gets back to the chocolate vs vanilla debate. If one doesn't like the taste of chocolate then you can debate till the end of time about how delicious chocolate is but they aren't going to change their opinion about chocolate if they prefer vanilla and absolutely despise chocolate.
One can prattle on ad nauseum (well two have) with regard to Passat realiability problems but I know I made the right choice.

Obrigado Irmao
Tchau

mikenk · May 2002

The problem I have with Frapzoid's comments are that they are so condescending, like how could anybody compare the lowly Japanese Subaru Outback (or legacy)to the THE VW Passat. Actually, in my opinion, these two wagons are about the only two that do compare in that price range. I think they are both fine cars and appeal to different people. I prefer the looks, ride, stereo, quietness, and AWD system of my VDC over the Passat; others look at it differently.

Concerning long term reliability, based on CU data, the VW brand is not nearly as good as Subaru's. I would personally not buy a car based on reliability alone, but if it is close to a tie, that would be the deciding factor. I got rid of my Volvo 850 wagon at 80k miles; the reliability problems were just too much. Reliability is like rolling the dice; how lucky do you feel versus the potential gain on your car preference. That's an individual decision.

Mike

dudleyr · May 2002

Love the 240Z, but there are other nice looking Japanese cars. Here is one that came out in The sixties - wonder where the Z got its design from?

; ^ )

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/eng/cp/0005.html

syncopate · May 2002

OK. Thanks people. I am getting the Passat GLX 4Motion. Tan leather; working on exterior paint choice.

I particularly appreciate barkasy1's comments about life ling potatoe eating and ugly wives. Also, I see your point about Terminal Whiners and Passionate Owners.

Anyway, I now have to get the best price on the car I want. I was considering just faxing all of the VW dealers within 100 miles with a description and offer of $1k over invoice. Suggestions?

Thanks to all...

Bart

dudleyr · May 2002

After all the ridiculing Dan Quale got, it should be impossible to misspell potato!

: ^ )

barkasy1 · May 2002

barkasy1 · May 2002

Sorry I got so excited I hit "Enter" by accident.

$ 1,000.00 over invoice is too much! Give them about $ 500.00 (give or take $ 100.00) over invoice. The dealership gets an additional 2% holdback if they sell the car in the first month.

Go to Edmunds True Value to see what others are paying.

Dave

bbgrunt · May 2002

I just bought a Passat Wagon without even considering the Outback. Why? I live in the Denver Metro area and Outbacks are literally every 5th vehicle on the road. They probably outnumber SUVs and pickups.

I just couldn't stand to be another one of the crowd! Might be a great vehicle, but far too many people own them here.

5speeder · May 2002

Last weekend I tried to buy a GLS 5-speed wagon for $1050 over invoice. And they had just gotten the car on the lot a couple days earlier so I believe they'd've gotten ~$450 holdback, too. Lowest he'd go was $1200 over invoice so I walked. He claimed they wouldn't go lower because the car was so rare--one of the very few remaining '02s with no leather/no lux (just what I wanted!)

Maybe the GLX w/ leather & 4mo is more available and you'll find them more willing to take something lower.

frapzoid--I agree that the mid-90s Camrys are among the best looking Japanese cars ever produced. Bought mine brand new and still admire the styling--it's classic. Another choice is the early 90s Maxima--they still look good today! I have a 97 Max and never have warmed up to its looks. Nice drive, but I can't wait to dump it for a beautiful Passat!

frapzoid · May 2002

Pavlov gets his responses ;-) When this thread gets a little boring I know that all I have to do is to "ring the bell" and the Subaru dogs start to salivate oooops I mean they start posting like crazy! JUST KIDDING!!

Mike--Looks like you walked into a trap of your own making. Where did I say that the Passat is a superior car in ABSOLUTE TERMS? The Subaru is the better car for you. Go back and read my comments again. Perhaps you read more into it than was intended. I did test drive a Legacy 2 years ago. It's a fine car but the looks were such that
it was impossible to overlook the physical aspects of the Legacy and to tilt my impressions in the favor of the more positive attributes.

Dudley-- That car looks like a cross between a Jag XKE and an Opal GT.

Syncopate-- A fine choice Sir if I may say so myself! You would have been happy with either car.

BBGrunt-- I understand how you feel about that. In Berkeley all the wagons are either Volvos or Subarus. I work on the SF peninsula and there aren't many Subarus there. The wagons of choice are Volvo,MBZ and BMWS. I wanted to be a little different and got a Passat. Snobbery runs rampant in that part of the Bay Area and the only Japanese car that is accepted with open arms is Lexus. Oddly enough though VW is somewhat looked down upon too but because they are a German company and VW owns some high brow companies like Lamborghini,Audi and Bentley, they get a passing grade in the acceptence factor ratings. In additon, some former BMW and MBZ owners have bought Passats. And no, I would not say a Passat is as good as a BMW or MBZ. But then I don't think Subaru is going to put Lexus out of business either.

5Speeder-- Hmmm I got mine 6 months ago and I paid $200.00 over invoice. I was lucky because I wanted a V6 with stick and VW only sends about 5% of their cars with a stick to the US. Also getting a wagon/stick/V6 in the color I wanted was a stroke of luck.

I have talked to many friends, clients, and Passat owners on the street and have asked them about problems with their Passats. When I have told them about people on Edmunds saying that Passats are unreliable they ask me if these anti Passat people are dealers who sell other cars. All I can say is that I have had good luck with my Volkswagens and my Bimmer too. I can honestly say that I have never seen a Passat broken down on the highway. To be fair, I can say that I have never seen an Outback/Legacy broken down on the highway either. I commute 65 miles round trip in one of the heaviest traffic areas of the country( San Francisco Bay Area with 6 million people and counting!) With all the stop and go traffic there are always a lot of cars on the side of the road with their hoods up waiting for the CHP. As I have said in numerous posts that if I had trouble with the first VW I owned then I would have never bought the second, third or fourth one.
I go with what works for me. By the way, my 1991 GTI has over 212,000 miles on it and have only replaced belts and the alternator(@ 207k miles).I'm still on the original clutch too. Not bad considering all the stop and go traffic I have to deal with.

Both the Passat and Outback are good cars. They appeal to different people. Test drive them both and decide. I can't say that in ABSOLUTE TERMS that one is better than the other. Both are good cars. Much to the displeasure of the Subaru camp, CR likes both cars. Imagine that!!! Passat owners chose one flavor and Subaru owners chose another...NOW GET OVER IT!!!! :-)

barresa62 · May 2002

Yes Frapzoid, you ARE Volkswagon's poster child, LOL! Heck, if I had a GTI that went 212,000 miles w/just routine maintenance & wear item replacements I would be a poster child too! Actually, that would be a good testimonial for any car, to be sure. :-)

Stephen

WarpDrive · May 2002

Yes, the reality of the situation is that *both* VW's and Subaru's are good cars. I think us arguing over which is better is just nitpicking points. However, it just shows the passion each of us have for our own cars.

Also, poster children are certainly not brand specific. For every brand, there is a poster child to be found. My good buddy still swears by GM products. It's not really indicative of anything except that guy had a good experience with GM products. I like Sony TV's and have had great experiences, but I have noticed that there are a few people out there who have had lemons. Who do you believe? I believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Whether a VW or Subaru is reliable lies somewhere between the best and worst stories you've heard. I'm hoping that that car *I* buy is as reliable as some of the VW's that frapoid has bought. I'm never that lucky though and the closest thing that I've had to that story is a Honda Accord which is the epitomy of boring automobiles.

If you really want me to talk about what I think are bad cars, let's change the topic to Ford or Chrysler vs Subaru etc.

ateixeira · May 2002

We spent the last couple of weeks actively car shopping. Ended up test driving the CR-V EX, Camry SE, Highlander V6 (mostly for reference), Legacy L, and Outback LL Bean (for fun).

She looked at an Accord but ruled it out. I also suggested the Altima, but she prefered the Maxima (out of our price range at $24k street price). Plus the Passat, but two strikes in that case - prices were higher and long-term reliability still unproven.

Public perception lags years behind reality. She's expecting our 2nd child and got rid of her '95 626 because of reliability issues after the 6th year, so that was high on her list.

We paid $17,827 for the Legacy L wagon, and before you say it's stripped, we got AWD, 4-channel ABS, 4 wheel disc brakes, A/C, PW/PL/PS, cruise, and keyless. Plus it's a roomy wagon.

The same dealer sells Passats, and it's convenient to compare because they are no-haggle. Check out Fitzmall.com if you are shopping. Thing is, manuals are rare. I saw a sedan for $22.7k with a couple of options, but no wagons, not then anyway. Looks like they have 45 Passats in stock now, and just one single manual tranny for $27.5k. 4Motions start at $30,433, but are less than $1000 over invoice so shop there.

But clearly they could not even come close in terms of price. We were willing to spend up to $20k, maybe stretch it a little, but that still doesn't buy a Passat wagon.

The L is is closer to the Passat than the Outback, because it doesn't have the raised suspension. The Legacy GT is sportier than the Passat but offers more of the goodies you get in that price range.

Still, the wife just wanted a family wagon. Ours has all the basics of a Passat wagon, plus AWD, for several thousand less. She drove it and liked it, so the choice was easy.

-juice

frapzoid · June 2002

Just wanted to check in and say hi to my Volkswagen and Subaru friends. Hoping you all are doing well...

Gary

ateixeira · June 2002

Hey Gary.

Good news - found a 6CD changer that a WRX owner removed and sold to me cheap ($150), and just installed that in the Legacy.

6 CDs in-dash, plus tape, plus weather band! Not bad for $150 and a couple of hours of work, eh?

Also found a set of take-off alloys for next to nothing. Plus a rubber cargo liner and a leather shift knob (all OE). The Legacy is looking good and I've still only spent about $18,150.

-juice

barresa62 · June 2002

Wondering what you've been up to. How's your summer so far? :-)

revka · June 2002

Please join us in our Subaru Forester or VW Passat Wagon discussion. Thanks for your participation.

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

frapzoid · June 2002

Summer is good so far. I was wondering what kind of wax you guys put on your cars? We need more subjects to fight about oooops I mean debate about ;-) LOL Take care all...

Gary

barresa62 · June 2002

the last wax I used was Meguiers Gold. :-)

Stephen

frapzoid · June 2002

I use nothing but Meguiar's and have been using their stuff for 25 years. This past weekend I washed the Passat with Meguiar's Gold Class car wash then used Meguiar's #7 show car glaze then Gold Class wax then #26 hi tech carnuba wax. Then I drove to the high class neighborhood and watched the snooty people checking out my ride LOL!!! Darn that's fun!! I used to do that with my BMW but it's more fun watching the rich folk giving my "lowly VW" that second long look and giving me the thumbs up sign. My Passat and BMW have good colors that sparkle when freshly washed. Passat is bright silver and BMW is silver blue. My BMW rarely got a second look in those same neighborhoods. Too many other BMW's there I suppose. For older cars like my GTI I recommend Maguiar's paint cleaner right after washing. It makes the paint look brand new. The Bimmer gets the full treatment this weekend. BMW paint is the best paint I have seen. I don't even wax that car very often and it still looks great. I like European paint in general. BTW the #26 carnuba wax is of Brazilian origin. Might of interest to Juice. But then I think all carnuba comes from there... Be good all :-) Hope all is well with you and your Subarus and Passats...

Gary

mikenk · June 2002

As we know, brand loyalty between Subarus and VW owners has generated many lively discussions. Last night, I had a strange experience that punctuates this loyalty.

My wife and I were leaving a restaurant to get into our WRX. Suddenly a guy, who had been in the restaurant, is banging on the passenger window scaring the kajeebers out of my wife; I rolled down the window part way and this guy announces that his Jetta, which is parked next to me, gets 45 miles to the gallon. He also said it was turbo and fast. Dumbfounded, I just responded that was nice and left as soon as possible. I am not suggesting that all VW owners are strange, but there is definitely one that is.

Based on this small sample, I suggest that Jetta owners just might be the most loyal of all.

Mike

lark6 · June 2002

I had a Jetta (1986) and, though I put well over 100K on it before having it totaled I wouldn't buy another. After about 65K miles it began to nickel and dime me terribly. Drivetrain and electrical problems mainly, though I did have to replace a radiator and heater core (which nearly poisoned me as it leaked coolant into the passenger cabin). I'll spare the details unless asked later.

In hindsight I guess I got my money's worth out of it but long-term reliability wasn't very good.

Ed

corellian58 · July 2002

I just purchased a base level Outback wagon with a manual instead of a Passat GLS. I grew up driving VWs with a detour into a 95 Jimmy for 7 years (what a nightmare that was). I drove everything that was in my price range that could haul at least 60' of cargo and was German or Japanese, except for Toyota since I don't consider those to be cars but rather appliances. My choice came down to the OB vs. the Passat. I loved how the VW handled but the OB wasn't far behind and makes up for it with the AWD. The final choice was made for me since I couldn't find a VW with a manual. Now my husband seizes every excuse to drive the OB though he is a Maxima man himself. He just keeps repeating to himself, "I really like this car." (I foresee a possible WRX or OB sedan on his horizon).

When I bought the OB, I didn't realize I was enlisting in a cult. It is so much more fun though, reading posts where people wax lyrical about their Subies rather than the typical posts in the Blazer/Jimmy world. Those posts usually are more like "I hate this *&^%$^*(* piece of trash". I hope to get at least nine or so years or relatively trouble-free and enjoyable driving with my OB.

frapzoid · July 2002

Yes it does border on being like a cult. I find myself making the sign of the cross when uttering the name Subaru. I'm finding out more and more about Subaru as time goes on. Just messing with you. Congrats on the new ride. I had my reasons for going with the Passat...I will never buy another BMW... If I get tired of VW any suggestions on what other brand of car I should consider? hahaha ;-)

Gary

ateixeira · July 2002

Tell him to get his own Subie! :-)

Congrats.

We even have our very own community page: http://townhall.edmunds.com/cgi-bin/townhall.subaru

-juice, Crew Chief and Founder of the Edmunds.com Subaru Crew

WarpDrive · July 2002

I am a pretty brand disloyal kind of guy. If you own a number of different cars, you find things wrong with all of them once you own one for a while. For me, life is too short to be a brand loyal person, there are too many nice cars to sample.

Right now I love my WRX and its AWD system, Subaru's philosophy on functional design and AWD. If nobody else offers models w/AWD, I just might stick with Subaru for my next car also, unless my wife gets her wish for a new Mini. I really like my Miata but I will probably want a more rounded car (not necessarily a convertible) as a fun car.

ateixeira · July 2002

Saw this Auto Salon place in Rockville yesterday, that had 6 Coopers parked out front. Get this - $25,900! They were the BASE models, not the S. *gasp*

They're not even a BMW dealer. They are next to one, but not affiliated, as far as I can tell. And the cars were being sold as used, not new. The monroneys were off the windows and all. I imagine it was just the mileage to buy them and deliver to the new dealership.

-juice

frapzoid · July 2002

I took my Passat up to the Sierra mountains for a few days. Those who say that Passats don't handle worth a darn would have been amazed. I was driving these mountain roads(altitude 7300 to 8000+ feet and curvy and sometimes narrow) with the same abandon I do when I drive my BMW and GTI up there. It's true that I don't normally drive fast or push the upper limits of my vehicles much anymore. That's something I have outgrown but it's still nice to see what a car can do. You younger guys do that on a more consistent basis. But I must say that is was exhilarating experience. I was also amazed how comfortable the seats were after driving four hours straight. Comparing the seats in my cars I would rate the BMW seats more comfortable for short trips and the Passat much better for long trips and the GTI would rate in the middle. I used to drive the GTI to Washington State and I used to drive 14 hours. Who would want to spend the night in Oregon? LOL Just kidding. Driving 75 to 85 MPH was the only way I could make it. Since I am a photographer, I would stop along the way quite often and take lots of pictures. Anybody shopping for Passats should not worry about the how the car handles up in the mountains. It does just fine and then some. I didn't drive off any cliffs LOL. The Passat convinced me that it might be time to sell my Autobahn Cruiser (BMW).

Have you guys heard about a new VW Golf with AWD and 241 Ponies under the hood? Would love to see a comparison between that and a WRX. Speaking of comparisons, I was wondering what you guys thought of the comparison Car and Driver did a while back. They compared a Subaru H6 VDC, Passat 4motion, BMW 525xi and an Audi A4 Quatro. They all seem like good choices...They liked the A4 the best. Be well my Subaru and VW friends.

Gary

ateixeira · July 2002

Gary: do you have leather? Only thing I found was that the leather seats seemed a bit hard. That just may be what pays off on a long trip, though - good support.

I drove one at the Edmunds Live event, so it was just a quick spin.

That C&D article was interesting, but they complained loudly about not having an off switch for the tracion/stability control on the Subaru (they have one now).

But what made me laugh was that they said they crashed all the other 3 cars into snow banks with those systems turned off. The VDC was the only one they didn't wreck, and they picked it last!

I guess when it's not your money, who cares. They give auto journalists a bad name by pulling off stunts like that, though.

-juice

krzyss · July 2002

Well, the new Golf is interesting but I wonder if it makes across the pond. It took VW a few years before they offered DOHC VR6.

frapzoid · July 2002

Yes I have leather...I have a bad back and the firm seats help on long trips.

ateixeira · July 2002

Sounds good. Like I said, ours was a 2 minute test drive on a short track around cones.

-juice

frapzoid · July 2002

Wouldn't you look ridiculous driving around Seattle in your 60's Tonka? It would be a tighter fit than your WRX but on the plus side for the Tonka it would be handsome vehicle! :-)

As you know I am not a fan of Japanese products and I have my reasons for that. Of course there are a few exceptions to that. A lot of that is a result of my true passion--Home Audio. For the most part, Japanese audio products are junk.
Even Subaru (Mc Intosh)Toyota (JBL) and Lexus(Mark Levinson) use american audio systems in their cars. Funny how Americans make state of the art home audio products but make awful cars. Most of my 20 some thousand dollar home audio system is American made. Brands that most have never heard of. Audio Research, Krell, Thiel,Velodyne ect. Ok ok so I have Nakamichi and Luxman thrown in there too LOL.(Japanese) I digress LOL. (must have been the wine) Anyway I didn't mean to get long winded in this paragragh but I am about to pay a compliment to Subaru. I notice that the other Japanese car companies make you fill your gas tank on the left side. Subaru does it the correct way by putting it on the right side!!!
Some may find think that is nothing to worry about until you run out of gas on the highway and have to empty the contents of the gas can into your car's gas tank. Hats off to the guys at Subaru. I'm not a Subaru convert yet though. Not until they pass Auto Styling 101!!! LOL Stephen your thoughts on the other topic brought a smile to my face!! Take care and be well :-)

Gary

robert116 · July 2002

I'll bet the VW six cyclinders don't pass coolant into the engine oil like our $30,000 VDC does...

Yeah, 'Subaru Team', I know, I'm the only one with this problem.

VW reliablility?, we just purchased our second Jetta TDI (diesel) having put just about 100k on our first in about two and a half years.
Mechanical problems, a coolant sensor replaced at approximately 85k miles, other problems-antenna had to be tightened and upper strut mounts replaced. That my friends is one reliable car!!, never used a drop of engine oil (or coolant) and fuel mileage ranged from very high 50's to low 60's. Best ever was Htfd, Ct. to Surfside Beach, S.C. on under 14 gallons of fuel-64.64mpg, or somewhere near .86 gph for 16 hours, with two people and about 150lbs of stuff. Mileage on the way back suffered a bit, slightly over the limit with about 300 lbs of additional weight only got about 57 mpg.

krzyss · July 2002

H6 vs VR6 and V6 ;-)

ateixeira · July 2002

Gary: you'll be happy to know Subaru hired the designer from Alfa Romeo.

Clarion does the Subaru OE systems, but they own McIntosh and that's what the VDC uses exclusively.

I have the in-dash 6CD changer, which came from a WRX (he got XM), and it's not bad. It has a tape player, you feed CDs right into the dash, and it even has weather band. I'm not an audiophile, but it's more than I expect from an OE radio.

robert: I noticed you cross posted a request that people look for a problem similar to yours, and that almost noone responded. Careful, you're beginning to sound like a troll.

-juice

robert116 · July 2002

Juice, "almost no one responded" means more members than myself have cited this problem, right? Those posting on this forum represent a very-very small number of owners, so statistically the number of units with this problem could be very widespread
Want to bet that an awful lot of people who purchased the first year H6 have an engine which has a very serious problem?
I may be a 'Troll' whatever that is, but qualify that by saying that I'm a troll with a very expensive VDC wagon with an engine that has a major manufacturing defect. Funny; but I don't believe that you or Patti responded to the other posts on this condition-interesting, is there such a thing as a 'corporate troll'??

barresa62 · July 2002

Have you asked Patti directly about your "problem"? She is very good about responding and helping folks out. BTW, it might help quell the "troll" comments if you filled out your Edmunds profile a bit more than just your name and handle.

Stephen

robert116 · July 2002

Stephen, as someone (Patti?) from the 'Subaru Team' stated they monitor the board I did not directly ask for any comments. Someone here reported approximately 4-5 members with a coolant loss problem. Our wagon will be going in for the third time next week, (coolant level down about an inch in 1000 miles) the five day fix last time, replacing a cooler, unfortunately didn't solve the problem as the lab telephoned today with a report that the fresh oil is showing approximately the same level of glycol as before the fix.
By the way, we have owned five new Subaru vehicles.

frapzoid · July 2002

Yes I am aware that Clarion bought Mc Intosh. Might have been 8 years or so. Was a sad day for High End audio when they did. Of course I know why Mc Intosh got bought out. Mc Intosh and Marantz co-invented high end as we know it and both end up selling to Japanese companies. Is there nothing sacred left in this life? LOL

As far as Robert's Subaru problems I must say that I am shocked and appalled!! I was led to believe that Subarus were "bullet proof". I just thought that those Subaru problem boards were just something in my imagination :-)

Here's a Candy gram from the real world... all cars are machines and they are all subject to some mechanical malady. Robert, since you are the only person to ever have a problem with the Revered Subaru Automobile you are sure to become a celebrity. Just kidding everybody. Stephen is the only person who knows I love pulling the collective chain of Subaru owners. Be well my Subaru friends :-)... I still find myself making the sign of the cross when I say the name "Subaru",,, Lighten up everybody and enjoy your cars!!! BTW my GTI now has 215,200 miles. Can you imagine that such a piece of junk (translation--- VW car) would last so long and be so trouble free? Off the record... I'm amazed that ANY car would be so easy to own. For those who have never seen one of my posts before let me say that I love German cars. Not so crazy about Japanese cars and hate American cars. I have a rich friend who own an Italian car and since I am the designated driver all the time, I get to drive an interesting car now and then. Because of that I always encourage my pal to drink up!!! LOL

Juice... Subaru might be getting some help in the looks department but since they get the final say in how the car looks I suspect they will find a way to add that "Japanese flair" that I have come to love so much ;-)

Don't you guys wish that we all lived in the same neighborhood so we could rag on each other all the time in person? Now wouldn't that be fun! :-)
Lighten up and enjoy your cars and always be safe..
Be well Stephen, Juice, Warp and Robert et al...

WarpDrive · July 2002

were always overrated to my ears even though they looked exotic and charged hi-end prices. In high end audio, there is a lot of crap out there. To me, Clarion buying McIntosh is like Daimler buying Chrysler....what a way to ruin an otherwise good car audio company.

But I digress.

ateixeira · July 2002

Actually, I have responded to your posts. I, actually we (Subaru Crew regulars), always try to help.

It's just that now you are cross-posting (not allowed by Edmunds terms of use) and just plain venting, which isn't helpful to anyone.

This isn't the appropriate topic to discuss your issue, either Problems thread or Subaru Crew - General Maintenance & Repair are more appropriate, I'm sure you'd agree.

You can vent all you want, which accomplishes nothing, except maybe making you feel better. Or you can take action. Call 800-SUBARU3 and get a case number if you haven't already. Then send an e-mail to Patti at pmickel@subaru.com, for her to follow up and put pressure on the dealer and perhaps the regional folks.

But most importantly, try a polite approach. You'll find people are far more willing to help. Patti has turned nay-sayers into rabid Subaru loyalists.

-juice

frapzoid · July 2002

I agree with you up to a point. McIntosh tube amps are pretty good but the transistor amps are nothing to rave about. Overrated is a good word to describe their stuff for the past 30 years but the older stuff is classic. A couple of their newer tube products are nice. Since they don't put tubes in car stereos I wouldn't be too impressed with having a Mac car stereo. In fact I'm not impressed with any car stereo and yes, I have heard the JBL's, Mark Levinsons ect. Now if we are talking about Mark Levinson home audio then that's a different discussion!!! They are in the top 3 IMHO along with Audio Research and Krell. I love tubes(Audio Research) and big heavy power amps like Krell. Wonder what car stereos
from those 2 companies would be like...My Passat stereo isn't too bad but doesn't come close to my home system... but what car stereo would? Too many compromises including size constraints make car stereo less than ideal at least to these ears.

I saw a Legacy GT wagon today with a custom paint job today... not bad looking for a Subaru but I think it's the paint that set it apart from the others. Also the lack of "body armor" made it look sleeker and classier than other offerings from Subaru.

Stephen... What do think of the "gratuitous chrome" on the newer Foresters? :-)

On the subject of venting... I live the United States of America and don't have a problem with a little venting now and then. Free speech is something I believe in. I might not like what you say but I believe in your right to say it. I recall all the regulars venting now and then (me included) at least when the Subaru guys disagreed with me that's the way I took it. I think we all took turns doing just that. Perhaps if Robert had been a disgruntled Passat owner then it might have been ok with some of you and would have perfectly fine with me...Robert,the check is in the mail. Just kidding!!!! :-)
Be well Stephen, Juice and Warp...Drive safely and be good... within reason of course ;-)
Take care all.

Gary

ateixeira · July 2002

The GT is clean, monotone, stealthy. I like it too. We actually bought an L because of the bargain price, but the GT was very appealing.

I dislike the fake aluminum/chrome in all the cars nowadays. Give us the real stuff, a la TT, or bag it. At least make it a stand-alone option so we can delete it.

If I end up getting a Forester Turbo when those arrive, I would consider getting plood or fake carbon fiber, since neither looks as bad as the painted silver trim. Yuck.

FWIW we're discussing Robert's coolant loss in another topic and seeking assistance for him. Free speech is fine, but taking action usually generates better results.

-juice

WarpDrive · July 2002

Fake chrome, wood, aluminum and carbon fibre is tacky. I never actually understood the desire for real wood either. It has no inherent properties that make it a good fit in a car beside making your car look like your living room furniture. And most of the time it looks fake too. A little bit of brightwork seems to be the trend these days and they seem to be getting away from monochrome look. But like juice said, if it's not real, they should leave it out (the painted center pod in the WRX is an example)

frapzoid, I prefer British and Canadian audio equipment myself in general....my fondest memories coming from many hours spent in front of my uncle's Linn preamp, Oracle (Cdn), Bryston(Cdn), QUAD ESL system. These days, I like buying Rotel and NAD stuff for home theater, not the best and not the prettiest, but like my WRX, gives the more expensive stuff a good run for their money in what counts, their performance.
As for car audio, I don't give darn about what brand it is, because most of the time, my stereo is OFF. I prefer listening to the mechanical symphony of the turbo whoosing combined with the characteristic boxer engine rumble anyway. If they offered a Mark Levinson Lexus system for a couple of hundred bucks more as an option, I *might* consider it. But mobile hi-fi is a oxymoron anyway, it's a losing battle.

frapzoid · July 2002

I happen to like Canadian and British stuff too. I am a fan of Sonic Frontiers and Classe. My main CD player is a Linn. Since you are Canadian it doesn't surprise me that you prefer Canadian audio. Come to think of it, since I live in California one of my other CD players is made by California Audio Labs. I have always admired Audio Research preamps and Krell power amps so that's what I got. Bryston gives you a lot for the money and that 20 year warranty is great. With the sonic character of the Brystons, B&W speakers would be a good choice for those amps. Rotel and NAD offer good value for the money. NAD shows what happens when you design things in the UK and USA and make it in the Far East. Good design and reasonable price.

You rarely listen to music in your car? Hmmm even if I had a Porsche with that particular flavor of boxer engine I would still have to listen to music. I was a musician in the SF Bay Area music scene and can't do without music. Nothing at all wrong with our different approaches to the music/driving thing. Personal taste as with so many other things doesn't mean that one is wrong and the other is right... just different. The chocolate and vanilla analogy pops up yet for another installment.

Warp... are you in Eastern Canada?

Gary

frapzoid · July 2002

What is that stuff on the grill of the newer Forester? Chrome doesn't bother me and neither does real wood. IMHO (not stating in absolute terms like others on Edmunds)what is tacky is the fake wood. If I had fake wood in my Passat I would try to remove it. My sister bought an Avalon XLS about a year ago(she paid a lot more for her car than I did for mine) and her husband said the that the "wood" on her dash is fake. On the Toyota web site they had some euphemism meaning fake wood. I don't need wood or chrome and had nothing to do with me buying a Passat. Wood is used sparingly in my car. Big BMWs and Lexus go overboard with the wood and that would turn me off too. Warp, you and I agree on that point. Darn this is getting scary! LOL Take care all...

Gary

WarpDrive · July 2002

I live in Ontario. I don't find much music worthwhile listening to these days (esp the radio). Unless I'm going on a intercity trip, my radio is basically off. In fact, I'm not even sure my cassette player in my WRX works (I wish they left that part out because it would make a nice cubbyhole).

Back to the topic, the new Forester is a noticeable improvement over the last one which I considered an ugly duckling. Gone are the prominent fender flares and the interior is more tasteful.

I personally don't really see the need for the Forester myself when it's basically about the same size as the Impreza? I guess if you really need an SUV lookalike car, it fits the bill. If it sells well for Subaru, all the power to them!

VW Passat Wagon vs Subaru Wagons

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles