Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

celeste2 · May 2002

hey girl, did you get a lead on any jobs yet?

Do you really want a carrier or are you just looking to use the coupon to get something? You know, you could just get a bunch of oil filters. I just bought about 6 of them and would have loved to have a coupon to apply toward them.

By the way, switched to Mobil 1 about 1,000 miles ago and get around 1 mpg more on my mileage, now.

Oh yeah, brekke, remember how crummy and old our driveway was? Were're having a brick lined horseshoe driveway put in this week and then will put in landscaping. I'll send you a pic when they get finished. Right now I've been having to park my little guy out on the street so can't wait to be able to use the driveway.

nippononly · May 2002

for all the feedback. I had heard about the issue of the smaller rear sway bar vs other markets, and that is just for WRX, not OBS right? Lots of people have switched it out. It sounds like for someone like me, the handling differences might not be that noticeable (I am not a racer), and I would want to be able to do all the dirt roading I do now, without having the teeth shaken out of my head. On the flip side, I want to be able to drive it fast through the canyons near where I live! Thanks again.

nippononly · May 2002

If I am reading right, the OBS is now the ONLY Impreza model that has rear drum brakes and a cable clutch (vs hydraulic). I am not wildly thrilled about either. When will they be updating this to match all the other models? You would think they would already have done so, just to streamline production.

paisan · May 2002

I don't think it has a cable clutch? But it could be.

-mike

brekke · May 2002

just want to use my coupon! I figure a roof carrier could always come in handy and I want to get something fun. I am also getting the leather shift knob.

No job leads at all. I am thinking of moving...

I don't remember your driveway that much, just that there was a shiny OBS on it! I've been seeing more black OBSes around here, too.

bluesubie · May 2002

I borrowed my friend's Yakima cargo basket (same as the Subaru one) to use on my wife's OB. Easy to install but as mentioned, it's not covered. My friend had a waterproof tarp.

For my OBS, I've been using an 8 cu. ft. Kanga Typhoon soft pack. This was pretty much the only closed carrier that would fit the pre-'02 OBS.

Since it fits directly on the roof, I can't use it on my wife's OB nor '02 and newer Imprezas (no rails directly on the roof as before).
I've already purchased a Thule Excursion for our next trip in the wife's car. I paid $230, which was $20 off the retail price. That's over $100 cheaper than the Subaru box.

-Dennis

celeste2 · May 2002

Brekke: Ya know if you move to the sunny South, we have lots of i-club meets! Had one in March, two in April, one later this month. Our concrete was poured this morning. It took two cement trucks full! I got lotsa parking for more Imprezas now... along with my son's Legacy, of course. You should hear his car now with his full Borla exhaust. New tires, Weapon-R intake, it really scoots.

Nippononly: Actually the information I passed on was advice given to me regarding the Outback Sport, and this was to tune the car for someone that did not need the tightness used in racing. I had told Mike Shields that I didn't want a real stiff, hard suspension, so that advice he gave me was to keep the ride quality near what it is.

However you are right about some folks upping the rear sway bar on the WRX. Some are upping the front one also, I think to a 22 from a 20.

By the way, thanks for backing me up in that Matrix vs. Vibe forum. I just wanted to see if I would get a reaction from anyone but didn't expect a favorable one! Do you own an OBS?

nippononly · May 2002

Yeah, but my OBS is one of the old ones: a '97. That has been the greatest car for me, but the more I read favorable impressions from owners on the new model, the more I am salivating to make a trade-in! One of the things I like most about my OBS is the handling, which is great and makes it fun to drive through canyons and things like that. It has very precise handling, albeit with some lean in tight turns. One of the greatest pleasures is the way it can speed rally-style along dirt roads! So i would want the handling of the new one (if I buy it) to be at least as good as the one I have, but of course there is no way any salesman is going to let me go cruising along dirt roads at 30 or 40 mph in his brand new shiny car!

So from what I am reading, you would recommend some suspension upgrades even for a non-racer like me, huh? You are right, I had assumed you were talking about mod'ing a WRX. But that is good to know...

barresa62 · May 2002

upgrading a rear or front sway bar doesn't affect ride quality. What it does do is affect oversteer/understeer and body roll. When I upgraded my rear sway to 20mm the ride quality stayed the same. Springs/shocks/struts are items that will affect ride quality. Just want to keep the conversation accurate. :-)

Stephen

paisan · May 2002

Will lead to a harsher Ride IMHO, because the bumps will be translated laterally from side to side quicker than they would be with a softer bar.

-mike

barresa62 · May 2002

in reality the change in my WRX wagon from 17mm rear sway bar to 20mm rear sway resulted in no change in ride quality...them are the facts, ma'am. :-)

Stephen

celeste2 · May 2002

I was just passing along what Mike Shields recommends. He tunes cars and those were his recommendations for my year OBS knowing I just do daily driving. The sway bar is for flatter cornering and better steering response.

paisan · May 2002

When I upgraded to poly bushings on my sway bars of my Trooper the ride got harsher. Maybe those WRX seats just absorb the extra jolts better!

-mike

ateixeira · May 2002

My carrier is a Samsonite. I've seen them in luggage outlets for $40. Sports Authority charges $80 for the exact same thing! Fits a pretty good amount of stuff and is water resistant but not water proof.

The Impreza TS wagon also has drum brakes. But I imagine the clutch and shifter linkage are the same.

-juice

barresa62 · May 2002

You're right, that's probably it! :-)

Celeste:

Mike Shields (great guy, BTW) is absolutely right, flatter cornering and better steering response. The front bar upgrade really affects the steering response as does a front strut bar. The rear swaybar seems to affect more in terms of flatter cornering, as does a rear strut bar.

Stephen

nippononly · May 2002

I think the OBS is the perfect Subaru for my needs personally, at least it has been this far, but I am puzzled that they have moved this model relative to the rest of the Subarus sold, to the point where it is almost the cheapest Subaru out there (with the TS wagon being the bottom). I would like to see it have the same hardware and options as the RS sedan, for instance. In particular, I would appreciate the rear discs, and the option of a six-disc in-dash changer. And this would bring it into line with the majority of the other imprezas out there, including the WRXs. On the plus side, at least the alloys are standard now. Those plastic wheel covers the old series OBS had were so ugly, and now all the old ones you see have black wheels exposed, because those plastic covers came right off and got lost.

BTW, how come all this time there has never been an option for a sunroof in this car? That would be nice too.

ateixeira · May 2002

The first year OBS had alloys and rear disc brakes. Those fell victim to cost-cutting.

Now the alloys are back, plus they are 16". I hope Subaru makes 4 discs standard across the board, though, like they already did with ABS.

-juice

nippononly · May 2002

I have seen the '96 OBS, which looks like my '97 but with no hood scoop, and the ones I have seen had the ugly wheel covers. Don't know about the rear brakes of course.

Or was there a '95 that I do not know about? The oldest OBS I have seen had 14" wheels, instead of 15's. And had wheel covers too.

When was the first year of OBS?

rsholland · May 2002

It has rear disks, and alloys. The alloys were optional. The car was re-named Outback Sport for MY97.

Bob

celeste2 · May 2002

paisan: I'll quote you what Mike Shields told me about poly bushings vs. rubber--

"The bushings are hard rubber which oddly enough is better than poly. You put the bush in and the clamp crushes it down tight--it is not going anywhere. They are exactly how we use them on our rally car. Ply would not last two hours, and rubber will run forever. Poly was used for cars that had soft fubber bushings in them. Subaru makes and uses much harder bushings throughout the car than most manufacturers and has an even harder set for rally use. For example, the excellent steering feel the car has, is due to the hard rubber mounts of the steering rack. Do not worry about not having poly bushings--we do not even sell them. We do sell special rubber rally car bushing kits for the WRX, but we do not change the sway bar bush, because it is hard enough already!"

Nippononly: I believe you could switch out the drum brakes for disks if you wanted to go to the expense and the trouble. I don't have any complaints about the braking though, and have had to apply the brakes hard in several situations. So I guess I'll put my money toward the bar and then the tires.

Someone on the OBS club was just talking about how his 97 (or was it 96?) OBS had 137 hp, which was upped to 142 hp I think in 99. So give the OBS enough time and maybe the engine will upgrade to the present WRX?????

By the way an article was referenced on i-club about a redesign of the headlights on the current Impreza that will debut at the Paris auto show this year, or maybe next year. Anyway. Bye, bye bug eyes. I just got used to them. They are different from all the clones out there and I think give the car a distinct personality.

paisan · May 2002

Have no idea why you quoted that for me, but ok.

-mike

nippononly · May 2002

I like the bug eyes now. But I have seen a lot of negative commentary on them in the press. You would think Subaru had produced Aztek Jr. with this car, when in fact I think it looks quite distinctive, and I like the lines.

Thanks celeste, I would not go to the trouble and expense of trading out the drums for discs, it is just that I have always wished for a stronger-feeling set of brakes on my OBS - since they were new, I have had to press the pedal fairly hard to get a strong response from the brakes, although they were always very good when I really needed them. So it would have been nice to see them go to the rear discs on the new OBS, since most of the other imprezas have them.

linsavy · May 2002

The least expensive path to better braking on your pre 2002 OBS is to swap the front caliper and rotors for those on an RS. You can pick up used one on i-club for less than $200 including pads.
They bolt right up, bleed the brakes and you are away.
You trade up to 2 pot calipers instead on 1 pot which gives the pad a better grip on the rotor. The rotors and pads are bigger so you get more swept area that increase braking force and dissipates heat better.
An excellent low-cost brake upgrade.
The next mod is to change the pads for something higher performance.
Rear discs are more of sporty marketing thing on small cars that don't do towing or track racing. Drums are quite effective in the rear and are much lower maintenance. They definitely don't look as cool though. My 2 cents.

celeste2 · May 2002

Paisan: I only mentioned about the poly bushings because of your comment about using them.

Linsavy: Sounds like good advice. They have a green pad that is dustless and I hear they're pretty good. Thinking of trying those when mine give out. Heard of em'?

heatherbean · May 2002

I was looking through www.nhtsa.dot.gov at the Problem and Issues section for Impreza's. I found under customer complaints something shocking and very disturbing! Here is a summary of over 20 issues on bad brakes:
"THE BRAKING SYSTEM OFTEN FAILS WHEN THE BRAKES ARE APPLIED WHILE TRAVELLING OVER A ROUGH OR BUMPY SURFACE, REGARDLESS OF SPEED (I HAVE HAD IT OCCUR SEVERAL TIMES, FROM 5 TO 35 MPH). IN THESE CASES THE ABS IS WRONGFULLY TRIGGERED UNDER MILD BRAKING, THEN THE VAST MAJORITY OF BRAKING POWER IS LOST AND THE CAR BARELY STOPS AT ALL. THIS BRAKING IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT IN FEEL AND PERFORMANCE FROM THE ABS FUNCTIONING PROPERLY ( I.E. VERY HARD BRAKING ON A SMOOTH SURFACE. THE BRAKES WORK FINE IN THESE CASES.). THIS IS A COMMON PROBLEM THAT I AM HEARING ABOUT FROM OTHER 2002 IMPREZA/WRX OWNERS."

Have any of you had this problem? Please reply.
Thanks, Heather

linsavy2 · May 2002

Green pads? Do you mean the EBC green stuff? I have read some horror stories on them about eating rotors for breakfast. I would stay away.
Porterfields are near the top in quality but cost alot. Carbontech and Mintex make some good stuff.
Heather, I have heard of the ABS issue before. "often" is a relative term. The key is "bumpy" roads. If you brake hard on a washboard gravel road. ANY ABS system is going to have a difficult time with it. The ABS is tricked up by the dumps causing the wheels to lose traction. The subaru system will do better than most given that it is a 4 channel system with sensors at each wheel. Some systems are only 2 or 3 channel and will brake the rears or fronts together instead of independently. I would only worry about this if the took different cars over the same section of road and found the Subaru to be worse than the other.
ABS is not a perfect saftey measure as it increases stopping distance in snow and loose gravel situations. Some people even turn the system off in winter by pulling out the fuse. I think the thing to remember is to not over-drive the conditions. Bombing down forest roads may be fun but is harzardous for amatures.

ateixeira · May 2002

$200 sounds mighty cheap for such a brake upgrade.

Heather: I've heard of one such case, so it's not unheard of but definitely not common.

-juice

celeste2 · May 2002

My son said he read that the yellow EBC pads are recommended only for racing rotors and if used with regular ones, they would be bad with those. Are you sure about those green ones?

Was reading in the OBS club over at Yahoo about a guy whose mechanic told him some 2002 OBS's have had camshaft seal leaks. First I every heard of it--anyone here?? Of course, who knows what number "some" is...

linsavy2 · May 2002

Yup the green ones. Word is that EBC is better at motorcycle pads than cars.
The 2.5l and the 2.2l engines are known to have issues with both crank and cam seals. The best thing to do it to change them when the timing belt is being done. Cheap maintenance. They only cost 100 or so extra at that time.
The rear crank seal is another story for cost, but I haven't heard too many issues with it.

aajoslin · May 2002

EBC Green is PEOPLE!

ateixeira · May 2002

No OBS owner here has complained about those leaks, so it can't be that common.

-juice

linsavy · May 2002

It's a higher mileage problem. It's not that big a deal because it is fairly easy to fix. It would be a problem if you went into do the timing belt, then a month later did one seal then 3 months later did another seal.
OBS owners are a fairly small portion of Subaru owners so maybe few have had this issue or have high mileage. It is fairly common to Legacy's from early 90's.

nippononly · May 2002

when I had my timing belt changed last year! Oh well, up to 115K as of today, and no oil leakage or consumption yet. I am knocking on wood daily! :-)

celeste2 · May 2002

that was a clever line! Reminiscent of "Soylent Green"... lol!

celeste2 · May 2002

guess we've given him up for dead, eh? Those wedding bells should be ringing soon, I can even hear them as I write...

ateixeira · May 2002

Either that or he's having a really great honeymoon!

-juice

nippononly · June 2002

I decided to take my OBS to an independent shop today that comes highly recommended for working on Subarus, and OMIGOD! I got a lesson in all the things that the dealer does not do, at least not my dealer, when they do routine maintenance checks. It needs new struts all around, and those infamous camshaft seals are already beginning to leak, and it is a great shame I did not get them done when I had the timing belt done. Plus the alternator is marginal and the battery is barely holding an adequate charge. I was reading a post earlier where people were wondering what on earth you get for all that "extra" money you spend for routine dealer maintenance, when the checks are numerous and the list of things they actually do seems pretty short, and now I have an answer for them: they do nothing with all those inspections! They might as well not have existed. To have all the work done that is needed, using Subaru parts, is going to be darn near $3000, including the clutch!

Of course, I don't fault the car - still a great car, and all the things it needs are just regular long-term maintenance items, or things that are expected to wear with age, but geez, if I had know about some of these a year ago when they started to present themselves, I could have spaced out the $$ outlay!

Funny, that with all the stuff it needs, it still feels to me like it drives like the day it was new...maybe that is a testament to Subaru, I don't know...

bluesubie · June 2002

You might want to let Subaru know about that (800subaru3 or subaru.com). If you're car has been regularly serviced by a dealer, they should've caught some of those things.
My dealer is the opposite. I'm usually surprised at the little things they can find (little things that could have led to major things, actually).

-Dennis

nippononly · June 2002

I looked up your profile and discovered you have exactly the same year OBS I have! I was just wondering if you have had any major work done on the car's suspension. Half of that money I listed was for struts all around, and the price including Subaru struts, labor, and a 4-whl align was $1500. My car has 115K miles, and I was kind of hoping these struts would go a little longer, but mainly I am surprised they cost so much...it is more for 4 struts for this thing than a brand new clutch!

bluesubie · June 2002

Wow you have some serious miles!

The only suspension work I've had done is a strut replacement before 36k and one at ~50k.

My current dealer, that's been in business about 15+ years, has only seen "a few" Subaru's that needed new struts.

-Dennis

paisan · June 2002

My guess is that at 130K any car would need new shocks/struts. It is more of a wear and tear item than anything. I'm sure it will be fine if you don't replace them as they are probably not shot. Shot would mean leaking fluid etc.

-mike

bluesubie · June 2002

I believe in one or both cases, mine came loose at the mounts (or something like that) and were rattling like crazy.

-Dennis

ateixeira · June 2002

Wow, 115k is a lifetime for most vehicles, that's great.

My wife's 626, at 71k miles, needed struts. But we just sold it.

-juice

linsavy · June 2002

Nippononly, I am somewhat surprised that all of your struts are shot. Struts should last a long time unless you are heavily loaded or drive over big bumps frequently.
If you really need struts I have some suggestions.
$100ish plus shipping will buy you 4 lightly used impreza RS struts and springs at i-club.com. Expect to pay about 300-400 for labour to install. They will lower the car about an inch and give you better handling at the expense of off-road ground clearance. RS and OBS struts are the same, but the RS springs are stiffer and shorter. You could just get the struts for less $. or
Buy some KYB GR2 gas struts for around $300 at p-s-t.com. Same for installation. Somewhat stiffer valve rates but not harsh.
Next up is KYB AGX struts for $390, same as GR2s but you can adjust the value rates from soft to way hard.
All of above are upgrades from what you have for much less than just replacing the struts with Subaru parts.
$1500 is way too much to pay. You could get coil-overs for that.
You have some time before you need to do this stuff by the sounds of it. I would look for a rebuilt alternator to save money. Do the cam seals when you have the money. A little leaking shouldn't be a big problem.
Cheers.

tberret1 · June 2002

Hi - my 2002 outback has 2700 miles on it and is leaking oil - any one heard of this problem cropping up?

thanks for any assistance.

aajoslin · June 2002

I haven't had any problems 15k miles... If you're leaking oil, one thing to check for is that the filter is screwed tight (hand tight) and the oil plug is not cross threaded... you might as well change the oil while you're examining the plug. If you're burning oil, There could have been a problem with the engine break-in period (O-rings). In the meantime, maybe a thicker oil will slow the leak... not a fix, just something to slow it down. Be sure to stay within specs for oil type.

Just a few thoughts from the weekend mechanic

bluesubie · June 2002

Can you tell where the oil is coming from (oil drain plug, filter, front of engine, etc.)?

-Dennis

ateixeira · June 2002

Make sure you use a new crush washer each time you change your oil. Or ask the dealer to trace the leak since it's new. It may be the front seals.

-juice

mosovich · June 2002

Anyone ever experience a creaking noise over the back right side, may be in the back door area. I have a 2002 OBS, and love it, but very frustrated by noise. Only occurs when going over bumps or an angled drive way. Scheduled appt. at dealer, to have looked at, but would like to avoid if it is something common and simple to fix. Thanks!

ateixeira · June 2002

Lube the sways, I bet that's it. There are rubber bushings that hold them in place, and as the suspension flexes from side-to-side, it twists in place and can creak, squeek, or groan.

Use lithium grease.

-juice

Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

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