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Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS
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Comments
-juice
My '93 Impreza went for 125k miles (before I sold it to my brother's ex wife who probably has well over 200k miles on it by now) without ball joint replacement as well so I figured this wasn't a Subaru problem but yet another problem in relation to that accident.
Oh well. Putting a few hundred a year into a car for maintenance is still a lot cheaper than buying a new one! ;-)
-mike
I'm considering buying an '01 OBS and was wondering if there are any specific problem areas with that year of which I should be aware? The two vehicles I'm considering (one auto, the other manual) have 40K and 50K miles on them, respectively.
Would there be any "good" reason to spend the extra $3k to 4k to get a used '04 OBS with 12-15K miles, other than getting the "latest and the greatest" with the larger 2.5 engine? This would be a second car, my toy; and fortunately, while the price of the '04 isn't out of the question, I'd rather not spend that much for a toy unless there's a very compelling reason: Like, the '01 would be a pit into which I'd dump $$$.
TIA...Terry
I have 156K miles on my '96 Impreza L with the 2.2L Automatic. For the past 3k+ miles I've been racing it on the road courses at near redline and she has held up just fine!
-mike
BTW, did the '01 manual trannys have the same clutch problems that plagued the '02s? And, while I'm at it, wasn't the '01 OBS the last year of the 4-wheel disc brakes until the most recent models?
Thanks again for your input.....Terry
The reason for the AT is 2-fold, first the car was $500 so you can't really argue about what trans, 2nd I like to be a little different, especially on the track, just want to prove you don't need an MT to do well, also curious how long it will last under race conditions
-mike
If you look for a newer one, might as well get a 2002 or later to get the new platform. But keep in mind it's heavier, so even the 2.5l won't perform any better.
-juice
Thanks for all the good input. Neither of the cars matched up with the representations made by the dealers, so I passed. Now, it looks as though my spouse is in favor of my getting a WRX, so I'm gonna hafta change boards and start my research all over. But if either of you has any guidance on this choice, I'd appreciate hearing it. Thanks again........Terry
Within that range, what would you experienced owners point me towards? I hear the turbo makes a big difference in the TS, a friend suggested the 2.2 doesn't have nearly the punch of the 2.5, I simply have no experience with any of them. Does the 2.5 make a big difference over the 2.2 without the turbo? What other performance distinctions exist in the OBS vs. the L in the 99-01 range?
Thanks everyone, can't wait to truly join the club...
I believe it had a 2.2l up until MY2001. MY2002 got the 2.5l standard.
OBS had some extra equipment and you might feel more at home in one vs. an L or TS.
If you find a nice 2.2l OBS I'd go for that.
-juice
Zero problems with the engine, but, if you want "punch," I think I'd look elsewhere. I preferred the slightly elevated OBS over the L and liked what seemed to be a tighter suspension (handling is quite good), but acceleration is not a strong suit--on a downshift into, say, second, or from a standing start. The vehicle feels solid, but the downside is that it also feels too heavy for the engine IMO.
In case you weren't aware, the hood scoop is for show only
While I loved the way the '02 felt and handled, it just didn't seem to perform the way I thought it should. Now, after having driven the '01 only a 100 or so miles on a nice curvy section of hwy 101 in NW Wash, I think I know why so many people rave about the 2.2L engine. It just seems to be a better driveline to weight match up than the 2.5L engine.
I also found the '01 easier to launch smoothly than the '02; and the '01 also shifts into reverse easier than the '02. IMHO, the '01 just seems to be an all around better driver's car than my '02 was.
So, if you're not gonna pay up the bucks for a WRX, and they're so popular that they want and get "all the money" (I tried: $18,800 for an '02 with 40K miles: I went to $18K!),I'd say to take your time and find a nice, well cared for, '98-'01 "L" or OBS. BTW, I ended up paying $12.5K for my '01, plus tax and lic. The Hi KBB is $13,365, and the cars are so popular in fowl weather areas that the dealers want all the $$$.
I also want to take this opportunity to thank Mike and Juice once again for their excellent input. You were both right on!........Terry
-mike
I traded my '02 OBS in on an '05 Legacy GT and I have to admit that it has exceded all my expectations. It's awesome, but that's for another board, isn't it...
BTW, Mike, when you're racing your "auto" Impreza, do you just leave it in the "3rd" gear position all the time?
Terry
My stable includes:
'92 SVX
'94 Legacy Turbo (bought from jim on here)
'96 Impreza Race Car
'00 Isuzu Trooper
-mike
A reading of several of the old msgs seems to indicate that the WRX wheels and 205/55/16 tires will fit the '01 Impreza OBS without any problems. However, when I look up the WRX wheels in a Subaru dealer's parts list, it indicates that the wheels are for applications on '02 models and later. What's the real story? I'd sure like to upgrade the steel wheels with some alloys.
TIA.........Terry
I have a set of WRX wheels on my dad's car a '97 legacy. On my Impreza L I run RS wheels and used to run wrx wheels.
I just bought a set of '02 OBS Alloys for inventory.
-mike
I have my '03 WRX rims on the '99 OBS.
-Dave
2001 and earlier had 15" rims, so technically speaking it's not an exact application, it's a Plus One.
But it will fit, it actually leaves more room for brake clearance and the offset is OK.
-juice
What can I expect to pay for a set of '02, or later, OBS or WRX wheels on the secondary mkt? It looks like they're over $200 each if bought new.
Thanks again.......Terry
I've seen them as low as $250 but no tires and probably a couple of scuffs on the rims.
I bet mike has a spare set, e-mail him.
-juice
-Dave
-juice
My suggestion: Pickup a set local for around $200-250 and get some good tires from Tirerack. The setup will cost you around $600 total but it will be a solid setup with good tires.
-mike
-juice
What are the noticeable symptoms if the pilot bearing is starting to go?
Does anyone out there have a '01 Subaru Impreza sales pamphlet they'd be willing to sell.
This is probably the wrong board for this Q, but I'll give it a try: I've always stayed away from turbos because of my conception that they shorten the life of the engines. Also, I've had Subaru salesmen tell me that the only engine troubles Subaru has ever had has been with the turbo models. This is generally no problem for people who trade cars every two years, but how about those who are not mechanics and want to keep a car 10 years and put 150K-200K miles on it?? Since there just isn't that kind of experience on the WRX, how about those of you who have some of the earlier turbo models?
TIA...Terry (Still thinking about that WRX!)
I'm sure other Q's will come up as I try to personalize this car, (assuming I don't try to trade it for the '02 WRX....what a bath I'll take if I make that decision), but that's all I can think of now.
I did get the 60K service done yesterday and was told that the drivetrain had no leaks whatsoever. (Is that unusual for the 2.2 eng??) The only problem found was the small, useable tread on the tires, and I was aware of that.
Oh, they found some sludge and carbon build up and ran a cleaning compound through the engine, with my approval. They made this sound like a normal phenomenon. However, I've never encountered this with my Hondas; although, I do remember the dealer adding a cleaner to the gas tank at regular intervals as part of a specific mileage service??
I'd appreciate any enlightening comments on the sludge problem and best remedies. I always thought that sludge build up was a result of too many short, slow trips with a lot of stop and go driving that didn't allow the oil to get up to temp, along with inadequate oil change maintenance. But "poor oil maintenance" doesn't fit in with the way the rest of the car has been maintained.
Thanks again.....Terry
In America, the Magnusson Moss Act prohibits manufacturers from requiring their parts or specific fluids (they can only "recommend" them) unless they provide the part for free.
There are several oil standards organizations - API, or American Petroleum Institute, the advocacy organization for refineries and packagers, ILSAC, the advocacy org for the car makers, and ACEA, advocacy for Euro makers.
Despite the technological ability to make great oils - the synthetics come to mind - forces within the oil industry refuse to advance from SJ to SL to SM without tons of kicking and screaming, and threats from smaller members to sue for antitrust on grounds they can't compete using primitive dino oil base stocks, and sell 99 cent per quart oil.
Meanwhile most drivers still think synthetic oil is a scam and/or waste of money.
This has led to a bewildering array of manufacturer specs - check your owners manual to see if any apply to you - the car makers sort of bury them in there, then say, but SL oil is ok. Which it usually isn't, unless it is Mobil 1 etc. which goes way beyond SL base specs.
Thus the sludge in your car.
The cheapest solution currently known to oil fans is Rotella T 5-40 full synthetic. As they indicate on their website, it may not be suited for passenger cars with sensitive (i.e., lower grade) converters which require "Starburst" oils which Rotella isn't. The variation in grade between 40 and the currently recommended 30 is well within operating spec range according to the Rotella site, but doesn't deliver as much fuel economy. It is, however, a very clean, robust oil, with a lot of antiwear compounds, and costs just $12.78 a jug at WalMart. Alternately,if you are nervous about putting your catalytic converter slightly at risk (if your car burns oil, it is obviously more at risk) there is Starburst certified Mobil 1 for $4.50 per quart, Castol Syntec for the same price (but overpriced, since it is Group III, not Group IV, and if you are going to use Group III, Rotella is much cheaper).
Finally, if this all sounds like BS to you, change to Kendall, Conoco, Motorcraft, or Union 76 - in the fall, all of these brands, made by Conoco, will be synthetic blend at dino prices, just look for the SM ILSAC GF4 on the back of the label (don't buy the old stock). It will be synthetic blend in both 5-20 and 5-30 grades initially - Conoco decided to properly meet the new SM/GF4 requirements, they might as well give up on straight dino oil.
You'll want the "acorn" lug nuts that are chrome rather than the open nuts you probably already have on your car. You can order them from a dealer.
Pilot bearing is the bearing that's on the flywheel side of the clutch setup. When you do a clutch job they usually replace that, it's a $5 part at most.
I wouldn't worry about the turbo cars, so far all the newer-age subaru turbos have been fine, don't know of anyone who ever blew a turbo on any subies, not without having heavily modified it.
-mike
We've reduced our driving mileage from 25K/yr to 10K/yr, and I've always thought that the synthetic oils provide better protection for the cold starts after longer at-rest periods between use.
I didn't know that sludge could develop with the non-synthetic oils as long as the vehicle had a lot of use at highway speeds where the oil could get up to running temp, and was changed every 3K miles??
Thanks again .....Terry
After posting my question, I discovered that Subaru was offering a $1250 "cash back" incentive on the WRX during the month of Sept. (Of course, if you don't ask, you won't get it. My salesman claimed to not know about it and had to check it out!)
I've wanted a WRX since they hit the mkt, but would not let loose of the $$$.(Being too practical!) However, since I'm among the "senior" group, I finally figured if I didn't do it now, I wouldn't ever do it; and I traded the '01 OBS on a new silver '05 WRX wagon with the auto trans. First auto I've ever owned as "my" primary car, but decided my "rat racing" days are over. I just wanted the technology, performance and handling:-)
So, I'll probably see you on the WRX board, with more of my questions.
Thanks again...........Terry
Basically, an auto engine is a little gasoline stove, with the gas burning inside instead of outside (hence, fittingly enough, the name "internal combustion engine").
Now most engines are also like vacuum cleaners - they are sucking in a lot of air. But, they can't suck air in, any faster that the 14psi of atmospheric pressure can push it in. So no matter how much you replace oem air intake systems with cold air intakes, or polish your heads, or get 16 valves instead of 8, or change your cam timing, the engine can only suck in so much air.
But wait, there's more history. In the "old" days engines were OHV, overhead valve, instead of OHC, overhead cam, so they couldn't rev very high due to valve float. Also, they used to sit in these big engine compartments with lots of open air space. They also used to run "rich" with lots of unburned gas to suck off heat from the combustion chambers.
Then:
front wheel drive cars with lateral engine placement - hardly any room for air to circulate;
OHC to let the engines rev higher
much better "air flow" so what (little) atmospheric air can get in
Result? More engine heat...in smaller engines with tinier oil and coolant passages.
Now...the kiss of death...turbo charging and supercharging. You get the power of a V-6 or V-8 out of a four-banger. Why? Because extra air is stuffed into each cylinder...each cylinder is burning a lot, lot hotter...and the revs are still high...
So where to you dump the heat? Into the coolant, into the oil (with an oil cooler, hopefully). But this doesn't prevent "hot spots" in some parts of the engine. Manufacturers try to design around hot spots, but consider Toyota sludge issues, VW sludge issues, Chyrsler 2.78 V-6 sludge issues...
Especially consider that the difference between sludging in a 1.8T Passat vs. non-sludging in the 1.8T Jetta seems to be the slightly greater weight of the Passat and a half quart lower oil capacity. Part of VW's solution, besides recommending synthetic oil with greater burn resistance (sludge is due to "burning" the oil), is to require a larger oil filter, which both adds oil capacity and can handle more sludge particles....
So sludge isn't just what collects on the oil pan and begins to clog the small passageways of the motors, like cholesterol in a heart, it's a part of engine life. As the oil breaks down, hopefully the filter catches the sludge. You need to change oil with a frequency based on how quickly your filter is sludging up, which is based on the quality of oil more than anything else. And yeah, I have switched to synthetic in all my cars, which are non-turbo. The best rule of thumb on whether you are putting a lot of heat through your car, is to follow your gas mileage. Lower gas mileage means a harder working engine.
Sludge is slow to turn up; a lot of drivers are light mile drivers. It isn't an engine defect, imho, it's an oil defect - considering there are top grade synthetics that won't sludge your car.
Wow!!!
Didn't you just buy the '01 OBS like... last week?
Congratulations
-Dave
However, that night I found the '01 OBS on the net, and it looked and sounded pristine. When the WRX dealer had not called by 11:00 AM the following day, we drove the 2 hrs to look at the OBS. It was pristine, and I jumped on it before someone else did! When I arrived home, the WRX dealer had called 20 minutes after I'd left with the offer to meet me half way ($18.4K).
So, for two nights I stayed awake all night arguing the pros and cons of giving in and trying to negotiate a trade, figuring I'd take a bath, but knowing that if I didn't get a WRX now, It would probably never happen! So, I did it! After another two hr drive, including a ferry ride, Some more haggling, which lead to me walking out and the company sales manager getting into the picture, I drove the '02 WRX home.
But, that night, while getting more info on my "new" '02 WRX over the net, I find that Subaru is offering a $1250, cash back incentive, and I stayed awake again arguing why I shouldn't get a new WRX. For the second time in as many days, "practicality" lost!
Fortunately, the dealer had a "72 hr right of return and trade", and after another 2 hr drive with ferry ride, and much haggling, we drove my new '05 WRX home!
Sorry for the lengthy post, but several of my friends found my purchase saga very entertaining......Hope you do......Terry
-Dave
Brian
I'll have to say that I'd probably not have succumbed to the temptation to make the trades if I still lived in Calif because you pay "all" the tax with every purchase; and I'd have taken a real beating. However, in WA, you get credit for the tax already paid for your trade-in:-)
I'll also have to say that the WRX is an awesome mixture of comfort and performance for the price. I don't know how one could do much better, short of coughing up 3X the price for a Porche or 2X the price for a BMW.
Thanks again......Terry
Any thoughts from anyone ?
-Dan-
-juice
-Dan-
-juice
My tires are Michelin pilot Sport AS in the stock size - 205/55r16 - and have had it from around 1000 miles...so that should not be a contributing factor to lower mileage either, since my mileage was much better earlier on the same set of tires.
Miles:244.8
Gallons: 12.89
Mileage:18.991
This was in a mix of 75 City/25 hwy type of driving. Since I live in a small town, the 75%City miles do not include a lot of idling. This was the first time in a while that the car broke the 200 miles barrier between fill-ups. I also believe I was subconsciously gentling the car, trying to improve the mileage. Will see if it improves further.
The Check Engine Light on my '02 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport (about 53k miles) came on. It's just on solid signifying something with the emission hardware. I called the dealership to schedule an appointment to have it checked out. They put me in for Monday.
I was fairly certain that it wasn't the gas cap until I read something saying that a CEL can occur even a week after fillup if the cap isn't tightened properly.
Is this true? If so I might just be able to avoid a trip to the dealer by retightening my gas cap (even though I'm sure I let it click multiple times before walking away and calling it good but then anything's possible)