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Or maybe JDP's numbers aren't any more reliable than you think CR's numbers are. I seem to recall that one of the complaints about CR is that "sister" cars (Taurus vs. Sable, Prizm vs. Corolla, etc) get different ratings. It appears the same thing might be true of JDP.
The rep didn't have a good answer, just that the reputation of the maker goes into the factoring.
Hi all,
has anyone seen the poor offset crash test
results of the GM vans? They were rated even worse
than the Previa! One might want to reconsider purchasing any of the GM vans until after looking at the report.
GM vans (Transport, Venture, etc.) <<A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/crash/vans/trans.htm">http://www.hwysafety.org/crash/vans/trans.htm>
Toyota Previa <<A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/crash/vans/previa.htm">http://www.hwysafety.org/crash/vans/previa.htm>
Just looking at the video clip or the pictures
makes me shudder. Of course, GM complained that the IIHS crash test was too severe.
At least Toyota fixed its problem when the Sienna replaced the Previa. Consequently, the Sienna is the best VEHICLE that the IIHS has ever crash tested. It'll also be interesting to see how the new Honda Odyseey fares. The results should be released sometime in Feb.
<<A HREF="http://www.hwysafety.org/crash/vans/crashvan.htm">http://www.hwysafety.org/crash/vans/crashvan.htm>
Taya
You said that vibration at 45 is normal? I'm not sure could you expain why. Maybe I don't know the makeup of the drivetrain enough. Maybe enlighten me?
If you're using the recommended fuel, and higher octane makes it go away, have the dealer check it out.
$28810 sticker
$26163 purchase Price
$ 3628 GM card rebate
$ 1000 Pontiac case rebate
$ 450 Free 3 years Oil, Lube, and Tire rotatns
$29260 Retail price including servicing package
$21535 Purchase price after rebates
=======
$ 7725 savings off sticker (26.4% off retail)
You're looking at one happy camper.
Best of luck,
MontanaMan
Just letting you know I sold my '93 Transport. It only took 8 days. Not too bad. At least I picked up $2,000. more then the dealers were offering me. Ha-ha on them!
Let me know please?
see: href="http://www.financenter.com/credit/gmcard.htm#earnings"
I have always been good at paying off my credit cards each month. I have no problems spending the $10,000 each year I charge groceries, clothes, gas, everything. I only write checks to pay bills mailed to me.
In any case, you have to be diligent about paying it off each month. A lot of folks loose tract of their spending when they use credit cards.
Best of luck,
MontanaMan... err... ummm... VentureMan
Enjoy
DPS1
Likes:
-no visible antenna
-power door - GREAT for my 3 year old
-seats are easy to arrange, remove, and return
-great looking (for a minivan)
-pretty decent giddy-up-n-go (for a minivan)
-cruises great between 75-85mph (wide empty freeways out near Palm Springs)
-great HVAC (get the rear setup too)
-decent sound system (for stock)
-gotta have steering wheel controls (Honda finally offers them)
-external temperature gauge (it errored over 120 last summer)
-gobs of room
-did I mention great looking (for a minivan)
-comfortable to drive
-commanding view
-HUGE side view mirrors (never a blind moment)
-great turning radius (for a minivan)
-excellent night vision (monster headlights and fogs - quite unlike Chr/Ddg/Ply)
-solid ride
-solid door closings
-storage galore
-fits in the garage
Dislikes
-so-so gas mileage (16.5mpg at 34.8 average mph - probably because I get up and go from stops, mostly city and 10-15 mile freeway jaunts, and infrequent long trips)
-computer that is about 1 mpg off (17.7)
-tank that requires more fuel than the computer thinks (average 21.3 gal per fuel up and the computer thinks I only used 19.9) NOTE: I keep good records.
-above mentioned squeak and window (I'll get it in soon for warranty, its just such a pain taking cars to the doctor)
Suggestions
-offer GTP package (supercharged 3.8 Series II)
-power both back doors
-Monsoon audio
-17" wheels/tires
-lighted running boards
-HUD
-allow the tailgate window to open separately from the door (for storing/retrieving little things)
-rear spot lights
-or just build the Montana Thunder!
My friends, colleagues, family, and I all like my Montana (Trans Sport). I highly recommend it, especially after searching for two years and test driving the competition. I might reconsider now that the new Odyssey is out (it has steering wheel controls), but then again, its not as good looking as the Montana (in my opinion).
Let me know if you have had similar experiences.
When I worked for GM many, many years ago, I helped develop a Vehicle Component Verification System (VCVS) that kept tract of which bin of new parts were installed on what vehicles. This allowed GM to narrowly define a recall only to thoses vehicles that had the faulty part installed. I'm surprised that GM did not use this system on the minivans (I worked for GM C/K truck division).
VentureMan
The best aspects have been the engine, drive-train and the car like handling. After 9 yrs the upholstery looks like new, the plastic finders protected us against the many potential dings and tire wear has been acceptable. Overal, a very practical vehicle, but not all aspects of the vehicle has been pleasing.
The many plastic interior parts (which remains unchanged even in the 1999 models) have been an unending source of grief. I have replace numerious parts and some are so expensive I could not justify the expense to fix. But worse yet, the brake system. In the last 9 years I have spent an average of $500 a year in brake repairs. In the last 4000 miles I have replaced the front calipers twice. And the rear drum brakes begin sticking and causing damage unless I have them serviced (adjusted) every 6 months.
Still, up until recently my wife and I have planned on buying a yr 2000 Montana. The change of mind is the result of two experiences I had this week.
The first experience was the 1999 Honda Odyssey. The new Honda is the first time I have been awestricken by a minivan, in my view it has no equal, period.
Second, the dealers first offer for trade-in was $800. I realize the dealer expects me to negociate, but I was so shocked by the opening offer I had to reconsider ever owning a Pontiac again. A nine year old Transport in good shape and rated as low mileage (110,000), but I have to fight to get more then $800 from the dealer. I had to ask myself, "why would I ever buy a vehicle that has no value to the dealer after just 9 yrs?" I just looked at the dealer with a blank stare for what seemed like 10 seconds, a moment of time frozen in my memory. Once I came out of my stuper I realized I had nothing to say, I just walked away.
I'm going to buy a new Honda this time next year.
I would guess that your trade may be so low for many reasons which may be: How the dealer is going to do with your vehicle, auction or sell. He will get significantly less at the auction. If it is on a Honda Odyssey some dealerships are trying to get everything they can on that vehicle. It is hot and they know it. Not to many people are in the market for a 9 year old van with over 100k. $800 is low but that is one dealership and one sales person. I have driven both the Honda and 99 Montana. I would say to you to wait and make that decision next year after you have taken a look at both vehicles. I did. At first I was sold on the Honda. After further review and shopping I found that I could get a great deal on a GM van and get more options for less when compared to the Honda. If you have the time and ability sell your vehicle yourself. You will do way better and eliminate one more thing to haggle on.
1. a few interior noises and rattles
2. stereo sound is poor
3. fit and finish (interior) is not the greatest
4. maintenance (oil/air filter and spark plug changes)are difficult
5. brakes squeal (pads are not worn out)
Other than that, it seems to be a very nice vehicle.
I'll post more after more miles.
Oh, yeah. It, too, has moisture in the headlamps, although it doesn't seem to cause any problems.
As soon as the weather breaks here in Upstate NY we hope to get out there and find a '99 Montana. We too have a GM Credit card credit. At what point do you inform the dealer of this and do you pay tax on the credit? One more thing...$1000. 3.9% financing until 3-31-99. Anyone here if this will be extended or of any other incentive after that?
and researched this board and others fairly
exhaustively. I've narrowed my choices down to a
GM minivan (Pontiac, Olds, Chevy) or Honda new,
and a Ford Windstar, used.
GM's strong point is the reliability of its
powertrain (engine + transmission). I've steered
away from the Chryslers altogether due to the high
volume of complaints about its transmission. I
can't say that I've seen a single complaint about
the transmissions in the GM minivans. I have an
(old) '90 Lumina APV minivan with 169,000, and no
trans. problems.
Other than a few rattles and trim issues, the
owners of the GM minivans seem to have been almost
universally happy with their decision. See the GM
reliability thread on this board (compare with
Chryslers!)--very, very few problems reported
(less, even, than the Sienna or Odyssey).
You should know that the GM standard-length 1997
mini (a Venture) did not do well in the insurance
industry's rigorous offset crash test. On the
other hand, injury rates in these vans have been
very low, and GM has since added side-impact air
bags.
One last point. The current GM models have been
in production since the 1997 model year (i.e.,
fall 1996). That is longer than the current models from Ford (Windstar), Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. The only current model that's been around longer is the Chrysler product, and its reliability has been spotty at best. Good luck.
I have been in the market looking at all models. My main concern is reliability and also front seating (wife only 5'0"). Haven't you escalated the issues to the service manager and then to the regional office? They may be of help. Maybe you can remind them that the company you work for is a GM supplier and that you will undoubtably spread the word on how efficient the service and parts supply for GM really is.
BTW, we also have just applied for the GM supplier discount but have no information yet. Could you elaborate on what they provide?
Thanks,
Steve
I can't quite remember the numbers but it's like 15% off of base MSRP for the Venture & 18% from the Transport (or Montana now), then it's I think 18% off of all total options for vehicle. Then the dealer adds 2% for mark up plus the delivery. The MSRP for my van was 27100, I paid just at 24K. The nice thing about it there is no sticker dicker or pressure sale just hand the approved paperwork over the figures are done then you walk out. Me and my wife when we bought ours last year were at the dealership a total of 30m, the longest time was getting the vehicle washed & prepped. When you apply for the program the vehicles will be listed that you can purchase and the percentage for the base and total options deduction. You cannot purchase a suburban, yukon, corvette and saturn.
I haven't had much luck with the managers and such all we are told is no problem found, the parts issue is the parts are suppose to being manufactured but it's been over a month and still waiting. Me and my wife today looked at the new Odyssey and fell in love with it and the consumer reports ratings are phenominal. I'm really questioning to continue with american made vehicles due to the problems with mine, I only listed a handful on the previous post.
In fact, the last thing YOUR company wants is its employees complaining loudly about the cars made by their major customer (GM).
GM has the economic leverage with most of its suppliers, and remember your competition is always ready to step up if GM gets pissed off at your company.
If you are a GM supplier, that relationship can't be contaminated by the supplier's employees demanding special treatment
I don't know if you comment is noted to me? I do not demand a special treatment just the repair of my vehicle from my dealership after 13 mos. I have had the problems since the summer of last year and can't seem to get the dealership to care, all it seems they care about is selling the car to you on whatever method you can to get the lowest price, then after the sale the service is very poor. If GM was to get pissed with my company I can say that it would take a very long time for GM to obtain new manufacturing equipment to be brought on line and turn keyed to manufacture their parts. All I am doing is posting a statement about my Pontiac Transport minivan and the poor integrity of the vehicle. I wish that american manufactured vehicles could have the same integrity & care as foreign made competitors. Check out consumer reports April 99 issue it shows all the vehicles, of the ones recommended all were foreign auto makers.
I am simply saying that you shouldn't connect your supplier status to any demand for good service. UInless you own the company, talk to your company's president and see if that person wants you to do that. If your company has the upper hand with GM, then you are unique.
What is bad though, is a supplier that puts indue pressure on its employees to buy GM (or other domestic cars), when those cars are truly inferior to the competition. One has to wonder what the real demand (given free choice) for competing vehicles would be. I once worked for a CEO who thought it was a black mark for any of HIS employees to buy a Honda.
He loved to brag to his buddies at GM that all of his employees drove GM cars.
Just my $.02.
Thanks for the input, I understand what you are saying. My company doesn't really put any preference on buying the GM products but does advertise the buying of their products (that's what happened to me to begin with). I'm really considering to continue with my problem product or move to a foreign vehicle. We supply for chrysler but we do not get any discount (I wouldn't buy chrysler anyway).
Do you get any of the incentives that the factory offers (low finance/cash back)? I am assuming not, but figured I should ask. Plan to order something in the next 4 months.
Dave
The transmission is bad enough. But the warpped head...and you aren't the first one to have tha problem on this car. Everybody improves, but even the trade rags still have spotty recomendations for the Dodge.
Besides, at 6' 6", I fit better in the Pontiac.