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Comments
I look forward to a nice sunny day and a few bottles of zaino to shine it up. I came out of a 01 e-430 and was ready to get a new e-class when stopped over at audi and was very surprised how nice these cars have grown up. The fit and finish is excellent and compares if not exceeds in the exterior and interior.
NOw I have to find a new cell phone with a speakerphone build in. I looked at audi world and saw some neat configurations but I am not quite that ambitious.
The one cradle from audi comes only in black I beleive.
If anyone knows of an instruction of how to drive a stick shift I would love to get it for my wife. somehow I think its like trying to teach a spouse how to play golf!
With the turbo engine a cool down only becomes necessary if you've driven the car pretty hard after arriving at your destination. Most recommend taking it easy for the last mile or two before shutting the engine off. A steady rate of speed on the highway where you are not using the boost to any significant degree would not require an idleing period, in the opinion of most.
Regarding the V8, I think most owners would recommend it if you plan to buy the automatic (Tip) transmission, but everyone who has the 6 speed seems to feel that the turbo engine provides an ideal fit. I have the Tip/turbo combination and have been very happy with it, but if it were not for the traffic conjestion in these parts I would have purchased the 6 speed.
First oil change was done at about 3k miles second at 10k. This time I asked for Mobil 1. $29.95 upcharge. Also had the PSK mod done, which is to say an Audi spork rear anti sway bar and bushings. The car is now, off stock by virtue of plus zero tires, the 402 mod -12mm, the replacement of the rear sway bar and the full paint treatment courtesy of the dealer.
My 03 allroad has all options, is a six speed and keeps getting better in every way I can imagine possible.
The On*star system is the only area wherein there are slight problems. About 2% of the time the whole sytem just won't activate until I take the key out of the ignition and restart the car -- almost like Microsoft Windows, which, to this day, will freeze up and work just find after a reboot.
This car is -- and I hate to say this word -- awesome.
The car I have is the 6spd, and I have driven the automatic version. The cars are fraternal twins -- the difference is obvious and striking. Both are very nice, one performs with gusto, one performs like a very sporty sofa -- why Audi chose to make them this different is beyond me. I know they know how to make the tiptronic version better, see the S6.
If you are looking at this car, test drive both -- there is no comparison.
I have not heard of an "Offroad."
I can't imagine it will less than a topped out Toureg and, come to think of it, it shouldn't confuse someone who wants a Porsche either.
Full boat for $65K may be a bit too much marketing wise, hmmmmmmm.
I think I would test drive a Toureg and a the Porsche version (low buck flavor) and the Pike's Peak. Car and Driver TV loved the VW with the 4.2 V8 -- and fully maxed out it was "only" $50K.
Audi, VW, Porshce using the same chassis and similar power trains may be a cause for some market confusion -- unless they can add value rather than just nameplates.
Read the article about the new Audi TT and the new Golf -- the conclusion was that Audi's new V6 TT will have its main competition come from VW which will produce a very similar car for $10K less -- using the same chassis, engine and transmission.
If I wanted snob appeal, I would have bought a BMW or Mercedes -- or words to that effect.
I say, bring on the Pikes Peak!
JB
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Does anyone own allroad with Nav option? Acoording to picture, it looks inferior to what Toyota and Honda is offering. Is it full screen LCD display? Color? I would appreciate any kind of info on this.
DC.
You're comments convinced me to go for the sticker sucking chest wound...actually I'm coming of the lot at 40k for a 2003"used" 7500mile, 2.7T Tip, grey,with premium pack, cold pack and dual spoked wheels,. I can't believe I'm spending this much...but I feel totally justified after reading all your great comments - good and the few bad ones read on other pages. I can't wait to unload my ML320....rock, rattle and tinny engine.
I'm really interested in the chip upgrade, but I'll drive my new car for a bit before I make the switch. I really wonder about the comment that the chip with the Tiptronic makes the car feel like the V8 - that's interesting.
Sorry guys - can't do the 6spd - got a bad back and can't always trust when I'll be able to shift...real bummer... too many parachute jumps...
Questions from the newbie on the block -
1. recommended ski rack? can I use my Yakima low profile?
2. recommended bike rack? I've always had a trailer hitch from my 4Runner, then ML...what do you guys recommend? Sources? If I can't use it on this car, I'll just sell off my old stuff and buy the new accessories.
You guys from real cold climes - have you ever had a problem with condensation freezing in the air tank in the back? sounds crazy, but I had it happen to us on military trucks, so we always bled the brakes etc...do you have to do that with this?? hope not for the price!
I love to drive in the snow. 4x4 is straight forward - mash the gas and romp - good fun. On my ML, I had to turn off the ESP or get stuck because the ABS would constantly fire, slowing you down and bogging down. ONce I figured that out - turn it off - mash the gas and romp - how about the AR?? turn it off right and have full time all wheel drive?
More questions will come with time.
Great sight
Tony
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
www.goapr.com for information. I don't know if this means the tip chip mods can be made at the same time, but a chipped tip ought to feel like a V8, based on my prior experience with a 1.8T engine that I had chipped.
Welcome and drive it like you live!
JB
I use Mobil1 (I pay the diff) and I change the oil and filter about every 7500 miles). I first changed the oil at about 3500 miles, then again at 10,000, next change 17,500 (I use Mobil 1 for two reasons, Cosco has it and the dealer has it -- and perhaps a third reason, it is relatively easy to find Mobil 1 so if I really felt I needed an in-between quart of oil, I could probably find Mobil 1).
Nothing against Amsoil -- I would have no clue where to find it if I was in East Egypt -- no concerns with Mobil 1 (or probably Quaker state or Pennzoil Syn either).
I went 12k miles with Amsoil between changes last time on my Jetta TDI. I had the oil tested (just for the heck of it) and it was well within spec in every way. You would probably need by-pass filters and additional filter changes between reloading the oil if you were to go 35k miles. I have no doubts concerning Amsoil or Mobil going that long with proper filtering. I have a problem with going to all that bother just to keep the same oil in there that long. If you're going to change filters and what not, you might as well drop the oil while you're in there.
Extended intervals is very valuable in a fleet cicrumstance, particularly when vehicles are driven 100k miles per year. Way overkill on a car. I also prefer Mobil 1 (mobile delvac for my TDI) however someone gave me a case of Amsoil for my TDI so I've been running that.
My A6 gets Mobil 1 as will my Allroad if I ever decide to buy one:)
BTW, just picked up my 03' Atlas AR today. Car is great. very tight, strong, fab fit & finish. But I got to tell ya, the Bose radio sucks. My Saab's Harmon Kardon system was better.
JB
Now down to tacks...ok, have you guys noted that at 40mph, sunroof open, you get a serious wind buffeting that smooths out over 45mph? I found that if you close the moonroof 2 clicks, about 5 inches closed, it stops that.
What have you guys found to work on the dusty front brakes? Having all this fun power, means harding braking - also good fun...until you clean the wheels every week.Suggestions?
You guys have mentioned car wax - what's the name?
"The chip" - dealer says it voids the warrany...comments?
Look forward to hearing it.
Brake dust -- shields work, may cause heat problems, new pads work but if they are good at stopping and good at dust they will probably squeal; conversely if they are good at dust and good and quiet they probably won't stop as good or will have fade. Weekly or more frequent car washes is what I do.
Chip -- some dealers will fight you if you chip, some will support you. There is a new, coming soon for the allroad chip that isn't a chip at all, it is a program that is applied to your turbocharger (via the engine management chip) without even opening the hood or breaking the so called chasity belt on your ECU chip.
It is available -- or soon will be -- from APR @ www.goapr.com -- it is called DirectPort Programming. You can expect to raise the HP from 250 to at least 300 and the torque will raise from 258 to 350 - 380 depending on certain variables and the fuel octane you will be using (93 octane program produces more torque for example than the 91 octane program).
Since there is no physical evidence of the program change and since it can be literally turned off, the non chip friendly dealer's are less likely to make this an issue.
My last 1.8T engine I had chipped and the dealer facilitated the job with Hoppen Motor Sports -- I used an MTM chip.
With the DirectPort Programming capability that APR (and others I presume) will soon offer, I would suspect that you can virtual chip with impunity.
I would, personally, caution and suggest that you chip however you do it as mildly as possible (often called stage 1). The reason for this is that the parameters established for the control of the twin turbos of this engine are a balance of performance and reliability. The turbos are biased by the factory chip for good performance and well within their operating parameters. The chipping program raises the performance level to be sure but it, so say some, pushed the turbos closer to the maximum end of their operating range.
Another, far more expensive solution, is to put the next "larger capacity" turbos on the engine.
Things to be aware of include the factory BPV (by pass valves) which cost about $25 may go out sooner rather than later -- heavy duty lifetime BPV's cost about 5 times that much. If you prematurely blow a BPV you may (who knows) clue the dealer in on your chipping activities. Again, this will be OK with some dealers and not OK with others.
Replacing the stock dual exhaust with a higher performance version will also increase HP and torque but the cost usually exceed $1,500 and the return on HP for example is about +10 - +15; couple this with the chip, however and zoooooom indeed.
New low restriction air filter, BPV's, bi-Pipes, chip (or virtual chip) can be ALL put on the 2.7T motor for less than $1,000 and will change the character of the car. There is also a TIP CHIP if you didn't get the 6spd manual -- this chip is reported to almost eliminate the "tip lag" of this particular car which is a by product of the drive by wire configuration coupled with a higher (lower numerically) final drive ratio.
Some folks just put a stage one chip in and live with the tip the way god intended -- some just can't stand tip lag, mistaking it for turbo lag.
The 2.7T is a very flexible engine and there are many many tuning options that even we mere mortals can afford.
You will love this car more as every day passes.
Finally the OEM tires should be shot and immeidately replaced with 245 x 50 x 17" Pilot Sport All Season (or Max performance if winter is not an issue) rubber; the Audi PSK suspension modification is also available from your Audi dealer for under $200 installed -- this puts the Audi sport suspension rear anti-sway bar and bushings on your allroad which transforms the cornering as it reduces body roll considerably with no change in ride characteristics.
And, as a foot note, the allroad air suspension is controlled by a computer that can be told to either raise or lower the suspension beyond its normal range (many people lower the suspension between 10 and 15mm) -- this compresses slightly the springs, lowers the car and also improves the cornering and handling overall -- this mod does make the car ride somewhat stiffer on level one. I have had mine lowered, by my Audi dealer by 12mm (about 1/2 inch).
One thing that was a bit disconcerting to me, however, was the extensive damage that resulted from the accident which, at the time of impact with the van in front, was at relatively low speed. It just so happened that the hood of the engine - and the engine itself - took the brunt of the impact. After close examination by the dealer, they decided that a replacement engine would be needed. This would have added about $15,000 to the body damage, which was earlier pegged by the body shop at about $10,000. The insurance company then graciously decided to total the car, and thankfully was very generous with their settlement offer. It was initally $37,800, and then just by me asking they gave me another $800 for the towing hitch that I had put on it (I didn't think it would have been wise to tell the insurance company about the APR chip, which cost almost as much! <g>). Anyway $38,600 was very acceptable (did I say "generous"?) for a vehicle that was 2 1/2 years old with 34,000 miles that "only" cost about $45,000 brand new. So the car did hold its value remarkably well, which was a good thing as I didn't have to reach too far into my savings to buy another similarly priced vehicle.
The reason why I said "disconcerting" above is that in this crash - which as mentioned was serious enough to total the car - none of the airbags went off. The explanation that I got for this is that the front airbag sensors, which are located in the "rails" (frame?) are only triggered when the frame itself begins to bend, and as I mentioned it was the engine compartment that bore much of the impact. Still, it just seems strange that with $25,000 worth of front-end damage that the airbags didn't deploy, and this (coupled with the model phase-out rumor) did not give me the necessary confidence to buy a new one. I thought about leasing, but I've always purchased my cars and I decided to go in a new direction, and try something different.
The main thing about the accident is that neither my wife or daughter (or me) were injured; in fact, nobody in any of the other cars were hurt either as they primarily incurred just front and rear bumper damage. The results of accidents are weird sometimes, and this was a good example of that. And maybe the airbags in other vehicles had they been in the same situation as the allroad wouldn't have deployed either - who knows. In any case, the car "crumpled" very well, as the impact was almost gradual and none of us even felt the seatbelts tighten or felt sore afterwards.
For all of you allroad owners out there, I wish you the best!
My dealer said there will most likely be an evloution of the allroad into the Pike's Peak and that the A6 avant will be given more allroad like features.
Buying an 04 allroad, then, is not high on the risk meter, any more than say buying a 2001 S4 would have been a risk, even though the 2002 S4 was just a carried over 01 S4 and that there was no 03 model S4 and the 04 S4 -- arriving in August -- will not be a carryover anything.
If I were in your situation I may or may not have purchased another allroad -- this IS the last year for the S6 avant and they are discouting them heavily -- so I probably would have gone for that.
I love my 03 allroad and one year from now if I am faced with the same decision you were faced with and -- knowing only what I know for sure, now -- I would probably order an S4 avant (with the manual transmission or the 6spd auto if it lived up to the hype).
In other words the "rumors" of my death have preceded my actual death. The 04 alload soldiers on.
What I really appreciate is the flexibility of options with this vehicle vs the ML which had no after-market stuff.
This has made the car so much more exciting. I'm so psyched about what I have now, but I can already tell you that I'm going with the PSK and I love the idea of lowering the #1 pos to stiffen up the "road" feel like a good German car should feel.
I've printed out your wisdom for further review.
Thanks so much again.
Tony
As far as the cargo area goes, official numbers are 31 cuft for the Touareg and 36.4 for the allroad, although the Touareg seemed to be roomier behind the seats.
Now, if you are paying CASH, the 03 brand new should be thousands less than a brand new 04.
Often the discounts are able to be larger on fully equipped models since there can be much greater gross margin on options than on the base.
Since I have one of these, the only advice I can give you is to think long and hard about an allroad 2.7T with an automatic transmission.
Even the salesrep and techs at my Audi dealer say the biggest complaint about allroads is that the 2.7T with Tip has a "lag" that owners often mistake as a problem when it is in fact a "feature" of the drive by wire computer controlled auto.
Besides it costs more, drinks more gas, is less fun and isn't as quick as the 6spd which, if you can find one will be even discounted more since, despite the known "disatisfaction" of tip buyers (noted by many, but not broadly decried as a reason to dump the car) is in lower demand.
The allroad with a 6spd is a secret car -- part sports sedan, part station wagon and part jeep.
Most of the same is true of the tip version, but if you drive them back to back the tip saps the strength out of it.
So, buy -- in CASH an 03 or lease an 04 -- but make certain to test drive both auto and manual transmissions -- take a long, long test drive.
I'm considering an allroad and have some concerns about the long term reliability of the car. Turbo replacement (inevitible in all turbo engines), suspension things, general durability. This is not a knock on the brand or model, just my impressions with recent research.
I will buy if I am comfortable with the long term reliability of the car, and lease if I'm not. What are your experiences and suggestions?
Thanks
All turbos need to spool up to have effect; thats common "turbo lag" which is in no way a hesitation. In the 2.7T, its far less than most because of the biturbo arrangement. The drive-by-wire lag stuff makes mechanical sense (though its effectively instantaneous) so I guess some people glom onto it and a myth is born; it's nonsense. Anyone concerned about this need only drive one; the 2.7T is a rocket in both the A6 and allroad.
I have now had 4 spd automatic Audis; 3 with V8's and one with the 2.8 -- true none of these were tubocharged.
The Audi tiptronic has a slight hesitation from full stop or if you are rolling at a very slow speed, for example when you are coasting down on a long slightly uphill exit ramp.
Unless you have very recently completely floored the accelerator pedal there will be a slight to prolonged lag in throttle response -- it is very similar to what used to be called turbo lag in some cars where the torque didn't come on until the RPM's were perhaps at 2,500 or higher RPM's.
The Audi 5spd automatic coasting down on the aforementioned exit ramp and then called upon to accelerate (but not full throttle) will momentarily lag "as it decides" what command you have given it.
If you have recently floored the accelerator pedal, the transmissions control module will be in one of its sport programs and it will respond virtually immediately. If you have not been driving aggressively,even if you have been driving at freeway speeds and are coasting along at 8 or 10 mph and then depress the accelerator pedal 50% the car will hesitate as it "realizes" that it is not in the proper gear and then adjusts itself. Although this probably takes place in the span of 1 second it can seem like an eternity if you are expecting the car to instantaneously respond.
Some attempt to overcome this by going into manumatic mode and downshifting in anticipating of the imminent or potential for acceleration (need).
I found this to be about the only disappointment of these cars. The S6 avant has no such issue, and I assume it is just a computer thing.
There is a so-called tip chip that mostly overcomes this issue.
Note: this is a design feature/function; not a design flaw, as far as I can tell. I really liked my Audi's w/V8's, I just had to learn to trick the transmission into performing like I wanted.
This so called tip lag is not any more or less prevalent with a turbo vs normally aspirated versions of Audis powerplants.
Unfortunately when you take a long long test drive in a tip allroad then a 6spd allroad -- the differences between the cars ceases to be subtle.
After 6 months with the manual Audis, take your car in for service and they will loan you an Audi with a tip -- you'll wonder what happened to the responsiveness you had grown used to.
All of these comments are not meant to suggest that both the tip and manual versions of these Audis are NOT both fine cars -- indeed they are.
The differences are hardly subtle, however. Indeed as of this moment if you look at Audis 2004 brochure and exclude the RS 6 and S4, the quickest Audi is the 2.7T w/manual transmission. The same car with the tip takes 110% of the time to speed as does the manual. Of course part of this is gearing and final drive ratio. But the point is that the quickest Audi in the land, today (excluding the RS 6 and S4) is the A6 2.7T w/6spd manual -- and even the mighty S4 isn't THAT much quicker.
Test drive them both -- long test drives over a variety of conditions and roads and try to duplicate your test drive from auto to manual.
Then decide.
For more information about the tip lag issue, see audiworld.com.
Question - why go down in face size and more width vice less width and taller tires ie 235x60x17...obviously 17 can't change. Does the 5mm increase in wall change the computer that much? Conversely, would going down to a 50 from 55 be a problem?
On to dealers...my guys tell me no mods are allowed that they would void any warranties and yet Mark says that the stiffer suspension and torsion bar are ok'd, as well as reducing the mm's of the shocks... I sure would like the stiffer torsion to prevent some of that roll that you get setting up a turn.
Does someone have ground truth on this?
All ears...
oh, I just did my first service at 12k, switched to Mobile1 - I love my car even more after coming back from a business trip in a rental. Wow! I just like to sit in it and feel and smell... even my cat likes to sit in it. What a great vehicle.
Burnin'-off OEM tires Tony
The allroad OEM tires are 225 x 55 x 17" N/S tires (N/S stands for not good for any season) that have been soundly and roundly trashed as being, um, "AWFUL!" I did test drive the allroad with these tires, of course, but now at 20K miles on my 03 allroad have not ever driven one mile with the OE tires mounted.
My first 19165 miles was on factory wheels -- Michelin Pilot Sport A/S size 245 x 50 x 17; now with aftermarket Audi Rs 6 replica 18" wheels, I am on 245 x 45 x 18" Z rated UHP tires.
I do not experience the wobble.
However -- if you have the factory standard or sized OEM tires w/21K miles on them, I would urge you to get new tires and have them balanced at the Audi dealer and have, simultaneously an all wheel alingment. Then, inflate the front 245 x 50 x 17" tires to 38 lbs and the rears to 36 lbs.
This, should take care of your problem.
And, to repeat, the tires should be mounted and balanced and the all wheel alignment at the dealer, not a tire store!
Good luck. You will be amazed at the change in your allroad SPORTS SEDAN.
My dad has an ML320 and was considering an A6 3.0, but after this storm feels he needs an SUV. I really want him to get an Audi, but the allroad looks like his only possible choice now. I appreciate any info anyone can provide.
The allroad used to list one of its qualities as a top level ground clearance equal to a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I dunno if this has been surpassed since 2002 by the Jeeps. Even if there are higher ground clearances on some SUV's (the Touareg will "go to 11" with the optional susension, for example, as will the Cayenne), the allroad is tough to beat the other 361 days of the year when that much snow on the highways is not an issue.
I have never gotten my allroad stuck -- and I don't plow our driveway, period. And, my wife doesn't get her TT stuck, as long as I take a couple of runs with the allroad first.
This is not an anti SUV rant, the allroad is quite capable when compared with many other truck based SUV's but it is not a substitute for a full-on truck based SUV. But the sales training my dealer went through put the allroad up against Land Rover, Range Rover, Jeep, Lexus, Infinity and Acura MDX -- and of course it was compared with the Mercedes M class and the BMW X5. My sales rep told me the only "car" that was unable to complete the torture test (somewhere in Virginia) was the BMW X5, and he also said that only the allroad and the X5 truly felt "competent" on the ON-Road (more sporting car challenge) test.
Of course, Audi put this test together -- but it was not claiming to be THE BEST SUV -- it was sort of claiming to be the BEST hybrid between a truck based SUV's off road capabilities and a luxury sports sedan. Indeed, in this case, the allroad IS the Swiss Army Knife of Cars.
If you must have a Suburban or a tall boy Touareg or whatever, well the allroad is probably not for you -- however if you need a mostly high performance sports sedan that can go on "all roads" then this thing is for you.
It may get stuck in the deep snow -- but not readily. Most (96%) of the folks who buy an SUV NEVER go off road -- funny they buy SUV's for station wagon like capacity and all wheel drive. Audi (as one of the pioneers) has been producing this type of vehicle for over 20 years. They know how to build 'em.
Stuck once in the snow with the quattro -- oops, but if it were a conventional front or rear wheel drive only vehicle, well it would be stuck a whole lot more.
And, besides the allroad can be had with a 6spd manual!
Try one.
Thank you for any input
Thank you for any input
The 01 and early and mid 02 allroads had rotors that were, well, prone to frequent problems.
The changes between each model year, per usual Audi, were numerous and subtle. For example, the 02 had a heated steering wheel the 03 and 04's do not (only in the V8).
In-Dash 6disk CD changer is in 03 and 04 allroads.
On*star in 2003 was easily found, even though it was announced in the 2002 brochure, there were few of them (if any) available.
The navigation system, to address your other comment is far from unneeded. This is a safety feature, a convenience feature and drivability feature -- no, really -- especially if you drive EVER in places in which you are personally unfamiliar. You are navigated without taking your eyes and hands off of the road -- you spend more time on the business of driving rather than finding your route.
On*star and the integrated Audi phone and multi-function steering wheel and the voice response and Virtual Advisor functions that go along with it make it another safety and convenience feature. Parktronic, too, is one of those things that I once thought were unneeded -- the only thing I can think of that is unneeded is the solar sun roof and I don't recall if it is still an option for 04. The sat radio is new for 04 and many find it fantastic. Phat Noise is avail for earlier allroads, however, and that may be "poor man's" sat radio -- a 6 disk CD changer is hardly a bad thing, tho.
To recap -- 01 may have some reliability issues that were cleared up in newer models; but 25K miles on an 01 is "young." 04 will be more reliable (or better said, probably more reliable); sat nav is almost a necessity, hardly unneeded, unless you never stray from familiar routes; the tiptronic is marginal even now (it is OK in the allroad 4.2 V8) but at least now it has a sport mode which reduces the lag, but does nothing to counteract the power sucking that seems to accompany the tip.
The 6spd is a blast to drive.
Whatever 2.7T you get, you should be aware that the OEM tires and their OEM like replacements are, in a word, awful. They should be replaced with 245 x 50 x 17" UHP (all season or no) tires or 245 x 45 x 18" tires and new wheels.
All versions of this car (by that I mean all model years) are good, some have had issues resloved which means that the 04's probably will have lower total cost of ownership, minus the lease payment differences of course.
No one knows, but I would speculate that the TCO of the 2001 (assuming a 36 month used car lease) would be comparable to the TCO of an 04 on a 36 - 39 month lease. Peace of mind, in other words, has value.
As for the rotor issue...what are the problems? I did notice ancient non-vented brakes in the rear! Are they over heating in harsher driving conditions? Is there a fix?
This car does have the heated wheel and a 6 disk changer along with the single disk in the dash. Maybe it was an add on the PO did to update. It is also fitted with 18" allroad wheels with 245 SO3s on them -- they will be quickly replaced with the 17" as I feel the 18" is a bit too low profile for a car of this type for us. Too much trail and gravel road with large pot hole driving -- we live in what could be considered "no where". And the last thing we want to worry about is a bent rim!
We had the nav system in the MB, and I have it in one of my other cars and used it for the first week. Never even touched it after that. We relly never leave our known area...at least by driving. I can see it for a frequent traveler or someone who lives in a more urban area.
So, if I understand correctly, here is the list of items I will have to do without on an 01 v. spending the extra 15K for a new 04:
On Star, updated brakes, sat radio, Tip S, and no third row which we find nice for the kids sometimes.
If Im correct, I do not see the reason to go for it. This is a Audi certified car so has close to 80K left on the warrenty...better than the factories new warrenty I think -- unless I pay extra. I am not a subscriber to leases. My feeling is, if one does not have the money to buy something, buy something else!
To clear up things though and a few questions: what mjr reliability problems can I expect? Is there something I should have the dealer check out before I have the car delivered? Why the wider tire for the car? does the 225 tire cause a problem or is it the tire type (allroad) that is the tire issue? I was thinking about 205 type like on the avant A6. better grip in the winter...
Thank god or someone for their residual calculations which thus far (I am 52) have always saved me money.
I have had 25+ Audis I paid cash for one of them -- a 1987 5000CS turbo quattro. It depreciated so fast, it would have been cheaper to burn paper money to heat my house (and I live in Cincinnati) when I traded the car in.
Perhaps the way to do it is to buy "almost new" as you are doing.
I feel much better for you knowing that it is an Audi assured vehicle. I urge you to consider that there is a petition to Audi of America protesting the tip transmission as a safety feature issue.
Read it for yourself @:
http://www.petitiononline.com/ARTIP/petition.html
You may find the following excerpt of life saving value Dear Audi of America:
"We have noticed significant hesitation when we launch the car from a stop. When the car is completely stopped, and the driver steps on the gas pedal, a lag of 1-3 seconds is observed. Within this time range, the car just idles as-is without moving forward. The same problem happens when the driver attempts to accelerate from 10-30. Using the S mode (if equipped) doesn't completely fix this problem.
We consider this to be a safety hazard for both allroad drivers and other people on the road. A common scenario is that when a driver attempts to merge onto a main road, an intersection or freeway and anticipates smooth acceleration, nothing happens and the car is prone to being rear-ended or sandwiched.
We understand that this problem only occurs in cars equipped with the Tiptronic transmission. In addition, this problem is not specific to the allroad, but also other Audi models with the Tiptronic transmission. We conclude that this has nothing to do with the "turbo lag" of the 2.7T engine as some dealers incline to believe. "
There is a software update that can be applied that forces the transmission into Sport mode which does REDUCE the tip lag effect.
Food for thought.
I typically keep luxury cars for shorter periods of time and title them in my business so leasing usually works out as beneficial in some regards. My latest Audi was bought from a guy desperate to get out of a loan payment and I bought it for a song. Figured I'd keep it a year and turn it once the trade-in caught up, but I like it and might keep it longer. My run-of-the-mill cars get bought with cash. I keep them for longer periods of time and I don't want to be at the mercy of a dealer if I want to toss the vehicle prematurely for some reason.
Also looking at the benifits of chipping the engine as well. This is the first turbo car I have had in a long time (my last one was in 89 -- a Porsche 944 TurboS), and there were frequent problems with reliability and turbo longevity v. the newer lower boost turbos of today. I have seen great performance benifits of chips in turbo trucks and cars and am interested in what would be a good one to look at. This is, of course, nowing that I tend to keep these cars until they are no more fun to drive (eg 150+K miles. Thank you all for the input as I have just had this car delivered this am and am planning a 300mi jont thru MT and BC this holiday...time to check out teh fun features. Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.
The tip transmission, as far as I know (and I have had four of them) is smooth, reliable and overall is probably right up there with competing class cars (which is not too much of a stretch since Audi sources the transmission -- as does VW, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, etc etc etc). The tiptronic, steptronic, manu-matic transmissions of late (5 years or so) are attempts to simulate manual transmission "control."
These transmissions and the "system" in which they operate are so-called drive by wire systems. That is there is an analog to the human command (pressing the accerator pedal for example). This analog attempts (and typically does OK) to mimic the responses that systems that have direct physical links have. Again, they do "OK."
In the allroad with the tip the complaint is that there is a delayed reaction from the moment the command is given to when the command is carried out. This split second or sometimes multi-second delay means, for some of us, that it is necessary to anticipate when you want maximum acceleration, for example. One half of a second even at a relatively slow speed can be 20 or more feet -- this is the so-called margin of error under certain circumstances.
The issue is compounded somewhat in this application (and in others from companies other than Audi) by three additional performance detractors: 1.) final drive ratio -- it is HIGHER (lower numerically) in the auto transmission (this means that the transmission forces the engine to turn more slowly and typically this means that the engine cannot deliver as much "power" to the drive wheels) Note: the final drive ratio is higher in the auto transmission in an attempt to improve fuel economy since auto transmissions typically waste fuel since they are not "direct" shift (like a manual transmission or a true auto-manual such as the new DSG designs); 2.) "turbo-effect" -- this simply means that this turbo, indeed any turbo has a point (measured in RPM's) where the engine is starved for air and thus is not at optimum torque -- translation a multiplied effect of the transmission's inherent characterstics, e.g., as noted in #1 above; 3.) the tiptronic is computer controlled and it is a "learning" transmission -- this translates into the possibility of the transmission being able to adapt to the driver's style over time versus its main "boot" program (which in the tip in this situation seems hell-bent to upshift prematurely in an attempt to improve fuel economy).
OK add these three things together and you get "tip-lag" -- apparently somewhat mitigated by placing the shift in "S" mode which keeps the engine at a higher -- more responsive -- RPM range longer; and, apparently further mitigated by improvements in the software and perhaps even the speed of the CPU that controls it in the 2004 versions.
I am not an engineer and not even technical enough to know what the differences are -- but I did test drive both the 2003 allroad tip (2.7T engine) and a leftover 2002 S6 Avant (which only comes in tip, in the US). The transmission in the S6 "behaved" in "D" mode "as if" it was directly connected to the accelerator pedal. My buddies who have test driven the RS 6 report similar sensations.
Something "ain't right" about the allroad 2.7T when it is connected to a tip. I had a 2001 A6 4.2 and it was "mostly" free from this tip lag. But it would fight to stay in second gear if I slowed to a rolling stop and then without shifting down I would press the accelerator and the thing would shift up to 3rd gear rendering my 300hp A6 to a turtle-start. This could only be countered by fully flooring the accelerator, which would then reward me with a lunge forward. Generally I like to lunge forward, but when all I wanted was brisk acceleration, it seemed there was no middle ground; all or nothing if you get my drift.
The 2.7T allroad apparently even today when equipped with the tiptronic frustrates some drivers all the time and all drivers some of the time. I do not know if this is the case with the allroad with the 4.2 engine.
Finally, when equipped with every possible option, the 6spd allroad 2.7T when compared with the tiptronic (only) 4.2 allroad is $5,000 less, has sexy and important 18" wheels and tires and a power actuated steering column and is, according to Audi's own published data less-quick in the 0-100kph dash.
The difference is .1 second -- but the cost for a 99% identical vehicle is hardly trivial.
The lesson, if any, here is to take three seriously long test drives, if you are considering this wonderful car -- and yes I said "wonderful."
Our allroad is one of over two dozen Audis my wife and I have owned since our first Audi in 1978 -- and even including the 1997 A8, this is the best, most versatile, fun, safe and comfortable Audi ever. Ours is a 2.7T with 6spd manual every possible option, upgraded wheels and tires (RS 6 18" with 245 x 45 UHP tires), rear sport anti-sway bar and high performance BPV's -- we had the fenders and bumpers fully painted and after discount the car was still "only" $50K with all the extra cost items. This makes it still over $4k less than a tiptronic allroad with the 4.2 V8 which sees our tail-lights.
You probably will not hate the tiptronic -- although the ire of owners all over the Internet on this subject has reached a level of shrillness over the past 12 months that is "impressive." The point is test drive all the allroads -- you may find the 6spd allroad to be the best car you've ever driven.
It is darn close to being the "swiss army knife" of cars.
In any case, I ordered mine, full-boat (all options avail in mid 2002 for a 2003) minus the auto trans and minus the solar sun roof, had it fully painted (arranged by the dealer prior to my picking it up); had new tires put on it before I ever drove it and had both the on*star and factory phone activated. When I picked up my 2003 allroad it was, essentially, "perfect." Later, when my first set of tires (Pilot Sport A/S in size 245 x 50 x 17) needed replacement at 19,000 miles I upgraded the wheels to RS 6 size 18" -- the dealer did everything for me here too.
I ordered the A6 PSK rear anti-sway bar (the so-called sport upgrade) and Bosch Sport Turbo By-pass valves -- all arranged and installed at the dealer.
My point in all of this is -- IT IS POSSIBLE with just a pinch of patience to get EXACTLY what you want and to test drive the 2.7T with and without the tip and, presumably, ditto the 4.2.
Note: in my comments, I mentioned no first-hand allroad 4.2 experience -- perhaps if you, for whatever reason, resign yourself to a tiptronic transmission, you should at least give the 4.2 a good test drive. Perhaps the tip-lag has been banished or is not an issue in this configuration.
And, before you protest the price, hear this: the 4.2, like the allroad in general, is not setting the world on fire, sales wise (I have NEVER seen one [a 4.2, i.e.] on the road in a city with 2 Audi dealers and at least a reasonable chance of seeing an allroad at least once a week (other than my own)) -- sooo, the unsubstantiated rumor is that the allroad 4.2 MAY be (has been) discounted more heavily than the 2.7T. This probably will not make up the vast (in my opinion) price difference for a 99% identical car -- but if forced to have a tip, I would certainly strongly consider the sweetest V8 I know, the Audi 4.2 -- the sound is so intoxicating!
Now, if the tip lag is a drag in the 4.2 -- fughetaboudit!
Finding a 6spd 2.7T 2004 allroad (for your dealer) will not be difficult. They may not want to do it, but they can. And, if the ONLY way they will get a 6spd allroad for you to test drive is with your more or less promise to buy it -- find another dealer.
And to repeat -- the anticipation of ordering a new one equipped exactly as you like it is kind of like getting a new car TWICE. First when you place the order, then 3 or 4 months (perhaps less) later when it arrives.
If, as the rumor mill states, either 2004 or 2005 is the final (current name) allroad and I could TODAY get out of my lease (20 months to go), I would TODAY get a new allroad with another 3 year lease and, presumably, love every mile of driving.
At this point in my lease, this is not practical, financially speaking. At 24K miles, I love this car, hence my desire to reload if I could for a new one.
And dispite my disdain for the tip, I would AT LEAST give the 4.2 a test drive.
I keep hoping there will be one last model year (2005) and that the excellent 6spd tip will be made available, at least in the V8 allroad.
I know, dream a little dream for me. . .
There must be two classes of allroad owners: the fanatics who mod their allroad "extensively" and the 100% stockers.
I fall in the middle, although I would be classified as a "passionate" Audi owner/advocate.
Seems like a lot of folks want to talk about price and that is OK, but, you may be right, even that has waned as perhaps the allroad remains a secret car -- at risk of becoming invisible.
I now see more Touareg's than allroad's in Cincinnati. Also see plenty of Cayanne's -- haven't seen a Phaeton yet and even see more S6 avants than allroads.
Someone ask me the other day how I liked my A6 -- which is understandable -- but wrong.
Shock -- the clerk at the 7-11 asked how I liked my Audi SUV! I'll be up and about again soon.